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Banned From The UFO Collective Google Group

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IF UFOs are real manufactured craft, then there is a highly organized, highly motivated group with incredible resources available to them somewhere behind them. That group has an immense sophisticated infrastructure supporting the design, manufacture, operation, and maintenance of the craft and the diverse industries contributing components to them. Where are they from? Outside of common human experience and accepted reality, be that outer or inner space.
 
IF UFOs are real manufactured craft, then there is a highly organized, highly motivated group with incredible resources available to them somewhere behind them. That group has an immense sophisticated infrastructure supporting the design, manufacture, operation, and maintenance of the craft and the diverse industries contributing components to them. Where are they from? Outside of common human experience and accepted reality, be that outer or inner space.
The challenge in my mind is what if they're not manufactured at all?

What if they're single purpose disposable artefacts? I mean, they come in all shapes and sizes and have all kinds of performance envelopes and effects.

Just like the occupants.

What if -- through the use of nanotech or whatever -- they can quickly assemble, use, then disassemble the craft and the occupants as needed?

It would explain the dearth of both craft and occupants, and the apparent lack of large industrialized manufacturing facility.

If they're post-biological/AI, you could probably fit billions of intelligences in a substrate the size of, say a largish beer fridge.

That would also explain why a great many strange things happen when I open my beer fridge.
 
The majority of the populace readily accepts the destruction of their privacy through personal tracking devices and a system that characterizes and profiles them through monitoring their movements, conversations, purchases, and associations while being largely unconscious that it is happening. If they are aware, they don't care, it's the price you pay for the toys. These systems and technologies have one use for the general populace and another purpose entirely for the elite who live as you say, in another reality altogether where the general population's fascination with celebrity, narcissism, and social status are things ripe for exploitation rather than participation.

The fascinating bit that Kubrick put a lot of his emphasis into for 2001 is how technology changes us. In his Odyssey the human race is on a transformative journey. I wonder a lot about that journey and how our basic tools always alter our own lifestyles and ways of being. Now we're in an era where the mantra is "program, or be programmed." But alongside that programming language are many other increasingly specialized languages such as those of the various sciences, medicine, quantum engineering, nano-talk -- what have you. All of these discourses and their effects, like the discourse of the computer programmer, are very much outside of the average person and leave us as the putty to be moulded and shifted, chaff in the wind.

The other thing i wonder about is whether or not technology, specifically something like computer technology, has its own inherent direction that excludes us from the calculation. The whole modern prometheus has a new message for our own culture. We keep stealing fire from the gods, employing it without too much consideration regarding consequences, and sit back to watch the fireworks and whatever other fallout might come. What exactly has Dr. Frankenstein invented with his binary monster and will it be the most radical of human shifts in terms of what becomes of things like human nature, memory, emotional relationships, ego, family structure etc.? Once our privacy departs, and we have to plan for those moments where our lives are not being recorded, what new shifts will come? I thought Wim Wenders' Until the End of the World had a interesting moral message regarding the corruption of the mind and the death of the imagination that would come once we would be able to record our dreams and then watch them on continual playback whenever you like. That movie was like counterpoint to Wings of Desire. Already i see a lot of people with corrupted minds tied to their selfies and obsessions about what is being posted about them, by them, for them. Many people constantly hear the phantom buzz from their cell phones going off in their pockets. It's a different kind of addiction, but as powerful as heroin.

From the CBC radio - this podcast 228: The future of privacy. Surveillance society. Mobile security. Genome identification. , might be of interest to you. It's a short piece. You have to scroll down the page to get to this one. Most of the episodes are fairly interesting and hit on this "future talk" that some of this discussion connects to.
 
Wicked awesome. Except the Grier bit.

I'm going to constrain my responses to any possible connection with the AAP, not UFOs in general.
These are my opinions only and I fully expect to get lambasted for them.
  • Material objects, and are either …
    • Artificial, and are either …
      • Made by human beings ….
        • On the earth …
          • At the present time--anthropogenic hypothesis. No. If someone has this technology, they've had it for 50+ years and quite frankly we'd see it in more widespread use and they'd be running the joint. Neither seems to be the case.
          • In the far future--time travel hypthesis. No. As I stated here: Micah Hanks and "The UFO Singularity" | Page 2 | The Paracast Community Forums - I don't see the basic economics and reasoning for thinking they're ourselves coming back from the future. In short, either they wreck their own timeline and existence, or they can't impact their own timeline therefore there's no point.
          • Or somewhere else--intraterrestrial hypothesis. Maybe. Maybe the "many-worlds" theory is true, and what we're witnessing is visitors from many different variants of the earth. This would explain the divergent morphology, the intelligent insect reports, the intelligent reptile reports, the popping in and out of existence, and the simple damn fact that they can for the most part breathe our air, have one head, two eyes, two legs, and two arms.
      • Or made by nonhuman beings …
        • On the earth--cryptoterrestrial hypothesis. No. I love Mac Tonnies as much as the next guy, but this has zero evidence going for it and a hell of a lot of evidence not going for it -- the simple fact we've imaged the entire surface of the earth, and the seabed. If they are here, and a rival civilization, then where the heck are they?
        • Or somewhere else--extraterrestrial hypothesis. Maybe. Fits within the standard model of physics, the standard model of evolution, and only requires one technology to make it happen: propulsion.
    • Or natural, and are either …
      • Living things--zoological hypothesis. No. There may be 'biological' UFOs but I doubt they're responsible for the AAP phenomena. You'd have to discount all the accounts of landings, with beings coming out of apparent technological craft.
      • Nonliving natural phenomena--geophysical hypothesis. No. I can see a good theory for the 'earthquake lights' with possible tangential thinking around geophysical stress inducing similar "visions" or "feelings" as was demonstrated by that helmet in Canada... can't remember who did that. But I fail to see a correlation with fault lines and AAP, and I for one live in an area that is very geologically stable.
    • Or apparitions, and are either …
      • Objectively real, and are either...
        • Best understood via Christian theology--demonic hypothesis. No. Give me a model of how/why/etc and how you can come up with a completely different Descart-ian model of physics that would undermine everything we know about the universe, good onya. Count me out.
        • Or best understood via alternative faiths--ascended masters hypothesis. No. I don't even know what this means.
        • Or best understood outside either option--ultra-terrestrial hypothesis. Again, I don't even know what this means.
      • Or only subjectively real, and are either …
        • Produced by the nervous system--neurological hypothesis. Maybe, there are some good models for some (or most) AAP reports. Hypnogogic states, "Old Hag" syndrome, and the aforementioned helmet which I wish I could find.
        • Or produced by perceptual and psychological factors--null hypothesis. No. If your explanation is simply that you can't trust your experience, are crazy, or otherwise stupid and extrapolate that across all the accounts (including my own), then sit and spin as far as I'm concerned. That's neither empirical, or science, and a really crappy execution of the logical fallacy known as "Argument from Authority." Basically "it can't be true, therefore the evidence and everyone involved in it is wrong."
 
There just is no one size fits all explanation. It's certainly not whatever the buzz word of the year or week might be.


Consciousness is certainly not a buzz word of the year, provided you don't need to arbitrate and examine the 18 million current theories on as much just too feel as though you are doing something useful. It makes far more sense to look within, than without, with respect for the paranormal. Where does the paranormal experience take place? In the head of the experiencer. Does this mean that no external agent is involved. Of course not. It simply means that it's the ONLY thing we have to work with. So yes, the study of Consciousness may in fact hold a unified paranormal theory. No matter how much fun that might not be.
 
Consciousness is certainly not a buzz word of the year, provided you don't need to arbitrate and examine the 18 million current theories on as much just too feel as though you are doing something useful. It makes far more sense to look within, than without, with respect for the paranormal. Where does the paranormal experience take place? In the head of the experiencer. Does this mean that no external agent is involved. Of course not. It simply means that it's the ONLY thing we have to work with. So yes, the study of Consciousness may in fact hold a unified paranormal theory. No matter how much fun that might not be.

Yes, the whole mental angle has been a big component of Ufology from the onset. Spiritualism, supernaturalism, psychic connections, and all of that populate many UFO/Alien stories.

OK, OK, lets drop all pretense and admit the truth. UFOs are obviously time traveling ghost priests of a neo-socialist fascist cult of ET artificial intelligences from an alternate dimension seeking to mutate humanity into the perfect vessel for their cyborg messiah to return to physical reality. There, the cat's out of the bag now.
 
Consciousness is certainly not a buzz word of the year, provided you don't need to arbitrate and examine the 18 million current theories on as much just too feel as though you are doing something useful. It makes far more sense to look within, than without, with respect for the paranormal. Where does the paranormal experience take place? In the head of the experiencer. Does this mean that no external agent is involved. Of course not. It simply means that it's the ONLY thing we have to work with. So yes, the study of Consciousness may in fact hold a unified paranormal theory. No matter how much fun that might not be.
That's like saying that other people only exist insomuch as I experience their existence.

While logically consistent from "a think therefore I am" perspective I don't base it for my model of existence.
 
That's like saying that other people only exist insomuch as I experience their existence.

While logically consistent from "a think therefore I am" perspective I don't base it for my model of existence.

I think at this point that there is truly a great deal of empirically reviewed scientific factual information pointing to to something quite the contrary to this *former* common sense interpretation.

We're almost to the point where we have proof that everything you know is wrong...

Actually, reality is so cool, we have no idea if it's real or not. Just saying.

The question is, WTF am I saying?
 
What came first the chicken or the egg ?

Transhumanism (abbreviated as H+ or h+) is an international cultural and intellectual movement with an eventual goal of fundamentally transforming the human condition by developing and making widely available technologies to greatly enhance human intellectual, physical, and psychological capacities.[1] Transhumanist thinkers study the potential benefits and dangers of emerging technologies that could overcome fundamental human limitations, as well as the ethics of developing and using such technologies. They predict that human beings may eventually be able to transform themselves into beings with such greatly expanded abilities as to merit the label "posthuman".[1]

I contend that in the larger picture H+ becomes B+ , Posthuman becomes PostBiological

That it is as some insist the logical and inevitable path of intellect, and its no secret to those here that its from this perspective i find the whole UFO question/s suddenly makes sense
 
        • Or produced by perceptual and psychological factors--null hypothesis. No. If your explanation is simply that you can't trust your experience, are crazy, or otherwise stupid and extrapolate that across all the accounts (including my own), then sit and spin as far as I'm concerned. That's neither empirical, or science, and a really crappy execution of the logical fallacy known as "Argument from Authority." Basically "it can't be true, therefore the evidence and everyone involved in it is wrong."

Well-said, Marduk.
 
IF UFOs are real manufactured craft, then there is a highly organized, highly motivated group with incredible resources available to them somewhere behind them. That group has an immense sophisticated infrastructure supporting the design, manufacture, operation, and maintenance of the craft and the diverse industries contributing components to them. Where are they from? Outside of common human experience and accepted reality, be that outer or inner space.

I accept the first premise, but once we do so , Group almost certainly must become groups



Likely supermassive populations at that.

We have a tendancy to lump these hypothetical entitys into the singular as you've done in your post, i think thats a mistake
Its a natural one to make given our own model recognises one sentient species here, and our religious programming reinforces that meme to boot.

All tuna are fish, but not all fish are tuna........
 
Yes, the whole mental angle has been a big component of Ufology from the onset. Spiritualism, supernaturalism, psychic connections, and all of that populate many UFO/Alien stories.

OK, OK, lets drop all pretense and admit the truth. UFOs are obviously time traveling ghost priests of a neo-socialist fascist cult of ET artificial intelligences from an alternate dimension seeking to mutate humanity into the perfect vessel for their cyborg messiah to return to physical reality. There, the cat's out of the bag now.


Watch it Mack, that last sentence is a loo loo! Actually it reminded me of Schrodinger's very own feline friend and how the paranormal is also based on observational uncertainty. There is no question that the entirety of UFO lore dwells in the forests of expanded natural context. It speaks to me as being consistent with a matter of facility, rather than a non integral event. The matter seems transitory with respect to human progress. It's in us. Not outside of us. Either by natural or artificial design. The question is, hypothetically, are we being taken there in a natural progression, or are we being influenced to go there by and within mechanisms of our own consciousness that we are yet to understand and develop a working context for?
 
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There is no question that the entirety of UFO lore dwells in the forests of expanded natural context. It speaks to me as being consistent with a matter of facility, rather than a non integral event. The matter seems transitory with respect to human progress. It's in us. Not outside of us. Either by natural or artificial design. The question is, hypothetically, are we being taken there in a natural progression, or are we being influenced to go there by and within mechanisms of our own consciousness that we are yet to understand and develop a working context for?

Could you break down what you're saying in plainer language, Jeff?
 
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