Banned From The UFO Collective Google Group

[trainedobserver]

I know, and I've often made the same argument myself. However, from my limited exposure to the high tech industry, I know there are unseen "streams" of research, projects, and products that are decades in advance anything in the general awareness. These things sometimes seem to disappear down black holes for no apparent reason. I genuinely feel there are pockets of outrageous advancement nurtured and protected like they were actual alien technologies. I have no proof to offer and few rational arguments to support it and I deny any direct knowledge it.

 

[trainedobserver]

So where, why, and how?

The flying monkeys would be kept in cages I image. Damn things spit like camels.

Where would "they" keep the cages? Under the sea, under the ground, behind a holographic curtain in another dimension?

 

[marduk]

I know, and I've often made the same argument myself. However, from my limited exposure to the high tech industry, I know there are unseen "streams" of research, projects, and products that are decades in advance anything in the general awareness. These things sometimes seem to disappear down black holes for no apparent reason. I genuinely feel there are pockets of outrageous advancement nurtured and protected like they were actual alien technologies. I have no proof to offer and few rational arguments to support it and I deny any direct knowledge it.

Oh, I could see that. A wicked-cool advancement in AI, antigravity, energy production, etc... come up in some corporate lab, and buried because they can't think of ways to monazite it and at the same time it's part of their corporate intellectual property so they want to protect it.

And decades later it never sees the light of day.

My point is that it doesn't seem to be fielded by any human organization (as we know it) in any meaningful capacity.

 

[marduk]

The flying monkeys would be kept in cages I image. Damn things spit like camels.

Where would "they" keep the cages? Under the sea, under the ground, behind a holographic curtain in another dimension?

heh.

I see what you did there... I meant of course the human breakaway civilization.

 

[trainedobserver]

The whole "breakaway civilization" theory actually states that the worker bees live and get their goods in the larger civilization. The elite who see the full picture operate outside of normal civilization. I think that's how it goes.

 

[trainedobserver]

A wicked-cool advancement in AI, antigravity, energy production, etc... come up in some corporate lab, and buried because they can't think of ways to monazite it and at the same time it's part of their corporate intellectual property so they want to protect it.

Also, a sufficiently funded organization could find and buy up these things and bring them into their private labs incorporating their products into their private air force, intelligence operations, or what have you.

 

[marduk]

The whole "breakaway civilization" theory actually states that the worker bees live and get their goods in the larger civilization. The elite who see the full picture operate outside of normal civilization. I think that's how it goes.

OK, sure.

Some super secret Builderberg/G7/Freemason/Stonecutters society actually run everything.

Except the world is going to crap, the economy is in the toilet, if you've ever been to India or China the environment is in total collapse...

Seems to me that if we're needed as worker bees somebody's spreadsheet has an error somewhere...

And if they could go off-world and just laugh about it, then do it, bugger off and go.

Listen, either there's some super secret group running everything and has a super secret plan with zero evidence or means of control... or there isn't.

Look at Putin and Ukraine. Serious mis-step there. Look at Bush and GWII. Serious mis-step there. Look at the Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, hell look at how shocked the west was when the iron curtain fell.

If there's a super secret group in charge of everything with magical saucer tech, they're sure doing a crappy job... so I struggle with them keeping their existence perfectly secret while screwing everything else up.

Oh, and the "Power Elite" (© Joseph Farrell 2004) still need to eat, sleep, and take a dump. Where do they do that? Or do they live here in their fancy futuristic mansions and we just don't notice?

 

[marduk]

Also, a sufficiently funded organization could find and buy up these things and bring them into their private labs incorporating their products into their private air force, intelligence operations, or what have you.

Sure, I could see how they could do that.

What I can't see is why.

In short, what's in it for them? How does it help them balance their Visa card? Drive a Porche? Get a hot-n-fancy babe?

Or do regular human impulses just no longer apply to them because "they're in the know?"

 

[trainedobserver]

What is the difference from the super-rich today?

Did you watch that Andreasson video? The hypnotist commands her to "imagine" an alien encounter when he hypnotizes her on the air! No one objects! She visits a planet with a red atmosphere. The B-52s Planet Claire no doubt. Stunning display of bullshit! These are the roots of the modern alien mythos.

 

[marduk]

What is the difference from the super-rich today?

My point is that the super rich act exactly the way you'd expect super-rich humans to act: public displays of affluence (like cars and houses and jets and the like), overt (rather than covert) displays of power and influence, have access to mates otherwise out of their reach, and the like.

They don't hide, they like the limelight. They show off. They rub people's noses in it. They give small fractions of their wealth to philanthropic organizations and pat themselves on the back for it.

They don't hide at the bottom of the ocean or in a bunker under the white house polishing their sport model Zeta Reticulan saucer with a Bugatti interior and show no-one.

Did you watch that Andreasson video? The hypnotist commands her to "imagine" an alien encounter when he hypnotizes her on the air! No one objects! She visits a planet with a red atmosphere. The B-52s Planet Claire no doubt. Stunning display of bullshit! These are the roots of the modern alien mythos.

Oh, you and I are 100% aligned on that one. I, for one, would love a wild, uninhibited weekend on the planet Clarion. Which I imagine is like Vegas but without the credit card debt and unhappy wife to come home to.

 

[trainedobserver]

Oh, you and I are 100% aligned on that one. I, for one, would love a wild, uninhibited weekend on the planet Clarion. Which I imagine is like Vegas but without the credit card debt and unhappy wife to come home to.

Truman Bethurum was picked up on his way to Vegas!

 

[Burnt State]

This has been a really nice twist to the thread and a very engaging discussion around the breakaway civilization. I've always thought we continue to live in an age of kings and queens - we just don't always recognize who they are or how to reach them. All that posturing around the globe with politicians vying for little bits and pieces of the real life game of Risk are just actors on a stage, playing their roles so the public has things to be distracted about. Those who are über wealthy fund all sorts of wing nut ideas, press for power, land, control and our taxes. They are the ultimate, invisible collection agents taking our money, our blood and our souls. We are the oblivious consumer pacified by booze, pharmacology and scapegoats.

I'm reminded of a story of Tberius Caesar who got so freaked out one day when a peasant fisherman managed to get into the palace and tried to present him in person a lovely, large fish. Tiberius freaked out and couldn't believe that he was having contact with this alien species and he ran behind the throne and started freaking out screaming. He promptly had the man beaten with the fish, who in turn boasted that he was glad he didn't bring Caesar the giant crab he had also caught. Tiberius had him immediately clubbed with the crab.

The really rich people live in an alternate dimension compared to us citizen peasants who think our votes and anger actually matter. Forget riding on their flying monkeys; they are squirting rainbows out their breast plates as the monkeys shoot guns at them while riding on top of leaping zebras powered by pink rainbow plasma shooting out their ass.

Oh yes, the world of the ultra rich is absolutely unrecognizeale to most people. And we already live in a day and age where the average person feels like they already live in an age of magic machines. Forgot trying to bring the iPhone to the past to attempt reverse engineering. Most folks don't know how the majority of devices around them that they use everyday actually work right now. The breakaway process is a continual ongoing process and the gaps are increasing incredibly as they don't like being identified at all

 

[trainedobserver]

Forgot trying to bring the iPhone to the past to attempt reverse engineering. Most folks don't know how the majority of devices around them that they use everyday actually work right now. The breakaway process is a continual ongoing process and the gaps are increasing incredibly as they don't like being identified at all

Great points all around. The last bit there is very true and somewhat frightening. It seems undeniable that the breakaway process has been occurring at ever increasing rate producing ever increasing gaps in both understanding and focus. The majority of the populace readily accepts the destruction of their privacy through personal tracking devices and a system that characterizes and profiles them through monitoring their movements, conversations, purchases, and associations while being largely unconscious that it is happening. If they are aware, they don't care, it's the price you pay for the toys. These systems and technologies have one use for the general populace and another purpose entirely for the elite who live as you say, in another reality altogether where the general population's fascination with celebrity, narcissism, and social status are things ripe for exploitation rather than participation.

 

[trainedobserver]

Sure, I could see how they could do that.

What I can't see is why.

In short, what's in it for them? How does it help them balance their Visa card? Drive a Porche? Get a hot-n-fancy babe?

Or do regular human impulses just no longer apply to them because "they're in the know?"

This is all speculation mind you. There could be people, perhaps more correctly families and organizations, who have over time accumulated power and influence that essentially puts them outside of the normal economic/political system, allowing them to manipulate that system. The main motivation is essentially providing for the continuation of the clan.

At some point it was realized that civilization killing events, extinction level events, are cyclical and another is on the way. Preparations would be made. Underground, undersea, and off-world safety-zones would be researched and established. There would be a need to keep the general populace, who are being utilized to further the elite's long time survival project and not their own, in the dark and pacified and it would be paramount. (See When Worlds Collide) The construction and maintenance of a false reality of political and commercial distractions seems self evident and eminently necessary.

This would not be a club that could be joined. You would be selected, groomed, utilized, and discarded if necessary or convenient. There are probably several of these extra-legal criminal organizations alternately warring and working together to ensure the continuance of their clan, gang, family, cult, or what have you.

All speculation. Paranoid, delusional, and largely unsupportable speculation? Probably. Hopefully.

 

[trainedobserver]

Markuk, I realize I asked about the Andreasson video in wrong thread. I posted that in one of the Dr. Leir threads. However, in relationship to the ET notion and the origins of much of the UFO/Alien mythos, you can see how much of what is taken as "knowledge" concerning the "ET Presence" has dubious origins. How much B.S. has been generated by hypnotists stupidly suggesting that people "imagine an ET encounter" or to visualize "What did the space ship look like?" and so forth? Sure there is a lot of testimony that has nothing to do with these terrible practices, like Burnt's sighting, but it is hard not to track much of what is accepted as "UFO and Alien facts" back to these types of things.

 

[marduk]

These systems and technologies have one use for the general populace and another purpose entirely for the elite who live as you say, in another reality altogether where the general population's fascination with celebrity, narcissism, and social status are things ripe for exploitation rather than participation.

This one is pretty funny given the fact that the super-rich routinely have their iPhone hacked by some 14 year old in a shantytown in China.

Let me tell you a story. I was recently invited to a work party hosted by my boss' boss'. I had the gall to actually show up.

Now I wouldn't consider this couple super-rich maybe. But their combined net worth was probably > $200M, they have houses all around the world, and their wine cellar stock in one house alone easily surpasses my entire net worth.

They were very kind, even to their butler, chef, and bartender. And to me and my wife. But it was clear that they live in a different reality -- one of corporate boards, stock trades, what kind of art they have on their walls, and whether to summer in the South of France or Italy this year.

They have a crapload of money, and make multimillion dollar decisions every day that usually bring them more money. Money is what drives them, it's almost like a hobby. "Oh, dear, I made another $10M today dear, how about you?"

To think that they even consider the plebs like you and me is incorrect. They're nice, and have good beer. But what they care about is money and how to show off the fact that they have money.

Exploitation of people is besides the point.

Oh, and I had to help one of them with their iPhone at the party, so if you think there's a super-rich iTunes account that gives you access to the stuff on everyone's phone, I just don't know what to say.

 

[marduk]

Markuk, I realize I asked about the Andreasson video in wrong thread. I posted that in one of the Dr. Leir threads. However, in relationship to the ET notion and the origins of much of the UFO/Alien mythos, you can see how much of what is taken as "knowledge" concerning the "ET Presence" has dubious origins. How much B.S. has been generated by hypnotists stupidly suggesting that people "imagine an ET encounter" or to visualize "What did the space ship look like?" and so forth? Sure there is a lot of testimony that has nothing to do with these terrible practices, like Burnt's sighting, but it is hard not to track much of what is accepted as "UFO and Alien facts" back to these types of things.

Oh, I'm with you.

But as a guy that's had his fair share of weird crap in my life I can correlate some of the stuff that comes out of some of the popular abductee's mouths.

What I propose is coming up with a coherent theory that is testable against data that you think has at least some likelihood of being true.

Saying "are UFOs real" or "are abductions real" and starting from there is just looking for a polar bear in a snowstorm.

Lets come up with a theory that fits the facts. Not facts that fit the theory.

 

[trainedobserver]

Now I wouldn't consider this couple super-rich maybe. But their combined net worth was probably > $200M, they have houses all around the world, and their wine cellar stock in one house alone easily surpasses my entire net worth.

I see where you're coming from, but those folks wouldn't be included in the class of international crime family I'm speculating about. They are just more lower life forms existing in the artificially created economic environment manipulated by ancient bloodlines and loot. Dang. (scratch, scratch) I've obviously heard too much reptilian overlord and Alex Jones hoo-haa-haa. How embarrassing.

In all reality it's all just a big dog-eat dog world where weird shit happens and people tell wild tales and dream outlandish dreams. 99% of everything we think we know is wrong including that. Pfffft. It appears that the world has always careered down history's corridors without a driver and the bigger it gets the likelihood that control can ever be established becomes increasingly less. Civilization will always be at the mercy of criminals who will not conform to its restrictions. The level of organization and control by these criminal factions varies and fluctuates with time. So, no I don't take any of my speculation that seriously. It's much worse. No one is in control.

 

[marduk]

I see where you're coming from, but those folks wouldn't be included in the class of international crime family I'm speculating about. They are just more lower life forms existing in the artificially created economic environment manipulated by ancient bloodlines and loot. Dang. (scratch, scratch) I've obviously heard too much reptilian overlord and Alex Jones hoo-haa-haa. How embarrassing.

In all reality it's all just a big dog-eat dog world where weird shit happens and people tell wild tales and dream outlandish dreams. 99% of everything we think we know is wrong including that. Pfffft. It appears that the world has always careered down history's corridors without a driver and the bigger it gets the likelihood that control can ever be established becomes increasingly less. Civilization will always be at the mercy of criminals who will not conform to its restrictions. The level of organization and control by these criminal factions varies and fluctuates with time. So, no I don't take any of my speculation that seriously. It's much worse. No one is in control.

For me it comes down to basic economics and human nature.

People do things because it's in their nature. It's in our nature to be selfish showoffs, live high on the hog, and rub everyone's noses in it... if they have the means to do so.

This is my basic problem with the "secret societies that run things from the backrooms..."

It's against basic economics and human nature.

If you run everything, the money's gonna come from and go somewhere, and you're gonna show off.

Hey if I was inducted into the stonecutters and given a double-infini-max-visa-ultra-platinum unlimited card that just got paid off, I'd be partying in Vegas like a lunatic with about 14 supermodels at my beck and call and scotch being flown in by the cask.

 

[trainedobserver]

Oh, I'm with you.

But as a guy that's had his fair share of weird crap in my life I can correlate some of the stuff that comes out of some of the popular abductee's mouths.

What I propose is coming up with a coherent theory that is testable against data that you think has at least some likelihood of being true.

Saying "are UFOs real" or "are abductions real" and starting from there is just looking for a polar bear in a snowstorm.

Lets come up with a theory that fits the facts. Not facts that fit the theory.

Well, there is a hierarchy of theories I posted around here somewhere. I don't think there is enough evidence to marry any one of them.