Budd Hopkins - The Pioneer of Abduction Research by Kay Wilson

[Keiko]

Ok Friend. I know nothing about you. So what do you expect from me? You can live in that world of fantasy, but the fact is there is not alot of evidence to support the theory 3 million Americans have been taken by small little grey guys during the night. I have enough familiarity with this topic to understand that. I live outside the United States. This is something that has always puzzled me. Why would beings from offplanet abduct American citizens predominantly. The air-space over the United States is the most guarded and patrolled airspace in the world. So why would aliens go there? If aliens wanted bodies to do medical research on, you'd expect more abductions to be happening in countries, that are far more remote than the United States. There is only 365 days in a year--do the math.. time example--24 clock does not add up 3 million! If it is happening on any scale, it in the very low hundreds over many generations.

Kieran, I expect you not to call those of us who have a different opinion clueless, I guess. Why accuse me of living in a fantasy world? Whoever said there was evidence that 3 million American have been taken by greys during the night - not me. If you are referring to the Roper poll then it is an estimate of the possible numbers deduced from questions answered by random people in a professional survey. I personally think it overestimates the possible numbers by quite a bit. Not because I disagree with the questions asked but because I believe other phenomena could also cause those boxes to be ticked not just 'alien abduction'. But it was a fair place to start and well-intentioned. I'm not quite sure what math you want me to do? I am not American. None of the people I referred to in my previous post are Americans. The beings I saw did not have the black eyes. Although all the others have seen these black eyed greys. Two of them have never had hypnosis.

I never heard Stieber talk about the beings having hair. I read Communion but didn't see this - I'd appreciate a reference for this point.

[/QUOTE]You've read more books than me on the subject ok, but are you able though to differentiate between what is abundantly obvious and not, so far, reading your post, I have feeling you are not able to. Do you not understand this[/QUOTE].

Master Kieran I await such enlightenment...

[/QUOTE]Hypnosis is no wonder-drug it only relaxing you, it is only a form of meditation to relax yourself. [/QUOTE]

I never implied or stated that hypnosis is a wonder drug. I said I felt it was riddled with problems. I agree, it just relaxes you. So why is it such a boogey man???

[/QUOTE]You can't have fire without the matches.[/QUOTE]

Yes you can...ask a caveman

 

[Kieran]

Dude, first you claim that Betty Hill said that the aliens were bald and that the image was well established and then you say BH claimed they had hair...wtf?
So, what's up with that - BH changing her testimony and Strieber withholding some stuff and authorizing a cover with a bald alien just to see if the people will report the same thing as he did?

And you were saying in a previous post that after Strieber there was an influx of Grey reports - I was just pointing out that Hopkins' book was written six years before and, as far as I know, there you have stories about the Greys and henceforth people were reporting bald Greys before Strieber.

It is quite likely that the standard image of a Grey was established well before the eighties, thanks to Fuller's book or the movie about the Hills. But, that was way before abduction really hit it, like in the late eighties and early nineties. After Strieber this thing got more publicity thanks to the TV shows, good selling of books, in the nineties the Internet and so on.
I'd argue that in the seventies, while Hopkins was doing the research, people had far less chance of being exposed to a picture of a Grey. And supposedly those were people with no interest in the UFO phenomena or without any previous contact with anything related to it.

And when it comes to the races, there are many kinds reported. But it seems that the Greys, Reptillians, Insect-like creatures and the Nordics are kinda the most common. I know that Jacobs and Karla Turner mention those. I'd really like to hear some input from Keiko or Archie: any experience with those races or just the classic Grey?

I'm also perplexed with that hair stuff: Both Carpenter and Jacobs mention the trick question of suggesting hair on the aliens, just to see if the hypnotized person could be led, because people always report their Greys as bald. This is the first time I heard that Betty Hill mentioned they had hair...

ELENDIL..You are not getting what I am saying, maybe that is my fault. It might be a communication problem betwen me and you.

1*Betty said/ the Aliens she saw were small "dark hair" with big eyes, this was before the Hypnosis sessions with Dr Benjamin Simon.

The Grey small aliens with "Bald" headed large eyes only came out after the Hypnosis sessions.. Hair in the original version.. no hair in the Hypnosis session?

2* Streiber/ does not believe the image in the front of Communion is real, he is unsure such a entity exists even, also he claimed his aliens had hair and were not bald!

But yet thousands of abductess are seeing the Streiber alien in their experiences and that being is bald headed. Do you not see the problem?

I'm not arguing against there being a small entity doing the abductions, but I do have a problem with the image we have!

The Grey Image is far earlier than Betty hill. Taking from the internet this stuff.

science fiction writer H.G. Wells, in the article "Man of the Year Million" in 1893, describes humanity transformed into a race of gray-skinned beings, stunted and with big heads. In his 1901 book The First Men in the Moon, Selenites, or natives of the Moon, are described as having gray skin, big heads, large black eyes and wasp stings. He also briefly describes aliens resembling Greys brought down to Earth as food by the antagonists of his more popular novel The War of the Worlds.
In 1933, the Swedish novelist Gustav Sandgren, using the pen name Gabriel Linde, published a science fiction novel called Den okända faran (The Unknown Danger), where he describes a race of extraterrestrials: "[...] the creatures did not resemble any race of humans. They were short, shorter than the average Japanese, and their heads were big and bald, with strong, square foreheads, and very small noses and mouths, and weak chins. What was most extraordinary about them were the eyes – large, dark, gleaming, with a sharp gaze. They wore clothes made of soft grey fabric, and their limbs seemed to be similar to those of humans." The novel was aimed at young readers, and it included illustrations of the aliens.

During the early 1980s Greys were linked in popular culture to the alleged crash landing of a flying saucer in Roswell New Mexico, in 1947, by a number of publications which contained statements from individuals who claimed to have seen the U.S. military handling a number of unusually proportioned, bald, child-sized corpses. These individuals claimed that the corpses had over-sized headsand slanted eyes—but scant other facial features—during and after the incident.[4]
In 1987, popular novelist Whitley Strieber published the book Communion, in which he describes a number of close encounters he purports to have experienced with Greys and other extraterrestrial beings. The book became a New York Times bestseller, and a film adaption starring Christopher Walken was released in 1989.

Keiko, It was a communication a letter between Whitley and Bill Chalker a UFO-researcher. Whitley was checking up on a case in Australia he allegedly got thousands of letters from people claiming experiences one letter matched his experiences in detail. Whitley allegedly his words told Bill this. I omitted this element from my book in order to have a way of later identifying possible authentic descriptions of the visitors...I think Bill would be sued if he was lying in his book.The case in Australia he enquired about I think involved a women

 

[ArchieBedford]

2* Streiber/ does not believe the image in the front of Communion is real, he is unsure such a entity exists even,

Whitley certainly has for years had "a hard time telling fantasy from reality" (direct quote from him) but has never said his abduction experiences were not real. He has said, once or twice, that he may have embellished them - not the same thing at all.

Ted Seth Jacobs' painting of the alien head used on the cover of "Communion" in 1987 was from Whitley's detailed description-from-memory to the painter. It resonated deeply and powerfully with abductees worldwide, some of whom couldn't even look at it or have it sitting around the house, for example on a table, staring at them. Both Whitley and certainly hundreds of others have said the head was not quite right: the actual cranium on the real beings is larger, the eyes more in the centre of the head, even the skin-tone not right (though this does vary somewhat within a narrow range). Everyone who has had interactions with these creatures says the same thing, unprompted - yet the basic, not-quite-100%-accurate image is still close enough to resonate powerfully. The reason these beings are reported so much by so many people all over the planet over so many decades just might be because they are real and these people are reporting what they remember, don't you think? This is far more likely than making up some idiot fantasy about thousands of people being unduly influenced by some image they may or may not have seen somewhere at some time, and then claiming that's what they saw - which idea, quite frankly, is absurd. People just don't do this in such numbers.

How well do you know Strieber, and how familiar are you with his work? Have you even read it? It is IMO problematic in several areas, but his original contribution to understanding and publicising this issue is IMO nevertheless substantial and important.

You often make blanket statements like "There is not a shred of evidence" for this or that, when in reality there is a ton of evidence, if you look into the issue seriously and study the data. This reveals you as substantially ignorant of the subject, and ignorance is not generally a sound basis for opinion on any matter. What you need to do for starters, Kieran, is:

1. Read the existing literature on the abduction issue: about 60 published books exist on the phenomenon from around 40 different authors, about one third of which are seriously worth reading. This will occupy your weekends for a year or two. If you want a reading list, I'll PM it to you and even rate them in importance

2. Contact, meet and form cordial relationships with as many serious researchers into the subject as you can. Travel to see them, interview them, review their work in detail, assess the primary case data. There is an enormous amount of hard data, I assure you. Very few of these data find their way into the public domain

3. Meet, interview, get to know some abductees with detailed recall of their experiences. I personally know about 20 in the British Isles, including (believe it or not) some from Ireland. You find them everywhere, worldwide. Stick to people who have detailed conscious memories and who have never been anywhere near hypnosis, by all means - there's plenty of those (the fact that their accounts detail precisely with others who have used hypnosis to open up their memories is moot). You can even focus exclusively on people who have multiply-witnessed abductions involving more than one person, as there's plenty of those too - if you are patient and serious enough about the subject to persuade them to talk to you, that is


Then, in 3 or 4 years, come back here and you might just have a clue what the fuck you're talking about. Because at the moment, it's manifestly obvious to some of us that you don't.

---------- Post added at 01:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:39 AM ----------

It is quite likely that the standard image of a Grey was established well before the eighties, thanks to Fuller's book or the movie about the Hills. But, that was way before abduction really hit it, like in the late eighties and early nineties. After Strieber this thing got more publicity thanks to the TV shows, good selling of books, in the nineties the Internet and so on.

Elendil

My grandmother (1905-1969) was abducted throughout her life and had memories of certainly the small greys. You saying she was influenced by the Hill case, or by Whitley Strieber? She never heard of either of them. There are thousands like her. I know of two different people here in the UK (one is James Millen, whose abduction experiences have been public for decades and whom I do personally know, slightly) who have detailed and documented missing-time-abduction cases from the 1940s.

---------- Post added at 02:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 AM ----------

Greys, Reptillians, Insect-like creatures and the Nordics are kinda the most common. I know that Jacobs and Karla Turner mention those. I'd really like to hear some input from Keiko or Archie: any experience with those races or just the classic Grey?

Mostly the small greys. They're the ones who always come get you, and bring you back. Physically they're very light and skinny, but have either biological or tech abilities to paralyse, control, move whoever or whatever they want and to communicate right into your brain with total clarity and lack of any ambiguity. They're not too chatty, they just want to get the job done. They occasionally seem almost nervous of the tall ones, who I always encounter in the "examination environment", wherever in reality it is. Insectoid types: two remembered encounters, in 50 years. They are very, very smart with highly developed abilities in neural manipulation, and actually quite scary. No "reptilians", no "Nordics" as such; but interactions with what most abductees refer to as hybrid infants, children and young adults. I'll go no further on public chat forum.

I used to think for decades that my experiences and memories must be totally outlandish and possibly unique, they were so outside societal consensus reality - even the two fully-awake-outdoors UAP close encounters accompanied by hours of missing time of which there was no memory. Now I know better: they are pretty much mainstream for this global phenomenon.

 

[Tom From Hong Kong]

Archie, thanks for your post above. This is exactly what is needed on these internet Fora: more thoughtful commentators with firsthand experience, who are well researched, but not necessarily blind followers.

 

[Elendil]

My grandmother (1905-1969) was abducted throughout her life and had memories of certainly the small greys. You saying she was influenced by the Hill case, or by Whitley Strieber? She never heard of either of them. There are thousands like her. I know of two different people here in the UK (one is James Millen, whose abduction experiences have been public for decades and whom I do personally know, slightly) who have detailed and documented missing-time-abduction cases from the 1940s.

Archie, please read my previous post(s) more carefully: I was replying to Kieran's argument that the abduction scenario is a thing picked up from pop culture. You know, the old skeptic argument about abductees picking up stuff which already existed in comics and whatnot. I can agree with that to a lesser extent - it is quite certain that with the advent of the Internet everyone can read a lot on abductions online. Also, after Communion the face of a Grey became a cultural artifact. It is widely known and recognized. Regarding that, I think it is likely that nowadays a part of the abductee population will consist of either frauds picking up stuff they found somewhere else with the added personal touch or maybe even some mentally frail people who managed to convince themselves of having an experience. So I think it's evident that nowadays researchers have to be even more careful than before.

On the other hand, when Hopkins researched his book back in the seventies - the Grey image wasn't as widespread as today. So I guess those people had far less chance of being influenced by something they either read about or have seen somewhere else. Is it totally impossible that they have been influenced by something? No, the narrative of aliens coming from the sky and abducting people was a thing available in the pulp magazines way back from the beginning of the 20th century. Kieran already quoted the wiki article on the Greys and mentioned Wells. So I can't say that is something we can easily dismiss - researchers should have already been careful back in the seventies. Nowadays even more. But that is why we have serious research which tries to take all that into consideration and then digs for everything you mentioned: corroborating evidence from multiple experiencers, conscious recall which confirms hypnotic recall and vice versa. Add to that a through check on the witness and their testimony + trying to do anything you can to obtain anything physical, even if it's just a picture of a supposed landing site.

Since we already have something like that (if the researchers are to be believed), we can say that it is quite a stretch that someone would make up a story which will bring them absolutely nothing but ridicule just because they maybe glanced at a novel by Wells when they were young. Is it even possible for someone reasonably sane to start cultivating illusions about a personal experience after seeing a cover of a single fucking book? Also, what happens when a thorough check returns the fact that the person never held in it's hands anything similar to an SF novel or comic book? What if that person's testimony can be confirmed by other people, even some they have never met? What if at the date of their UFO experience the local police station got complaints about UAPs in the sky? A lot of stuff worthy checking out. That was the point I wanted to get across to Kieran.

To end this rant - I couldn't agree more with your 3 points, but I also think that the stuff mentioned by Kieran should be taken into consideration. When you PM him the reading list, do the same for me please...


And now, what about that stuff about Betty Hill Kieran mentioned? Is anyone familiar with that? I haven't read about it anywhere. Does it mean that Betty changed her story?

 

[Kieran]

Whitley certainly has for years had "a hard time telling fantasy from reality" (direct quote from him) but has never said his abduction experiences were not real. He has said, once or twice, that he may have embellished them - not the same thing at all.

Ted Seth Jacobs' painting of the alien head used on the cover of "Communion" in 1987 was from Whitley's detailed description-from-memory to the painter. It resonated deeply and powerfully with abductees worldwide, some of whom couldn't even look at it or have it sitting around the house, for example on a table, staring at them. Both Whitley and certainly hundreds of others have said the head was not quite right: the actual cranium on the real beings is larger, the eyes more in the centre of the head, even the skin-tone not right (though this does vary somewhat within a narrow range). Everyone who has had interactions with these creatures says the same thing, unprompted - yet the basic, not-quite-100%-accurate image is still close enough to resonate powerfully. The reason these beings are reported so much by so many people all over the planet over so many decades just might be because they are real and these people are reporting what they remember, don't you think? This is far more likely than making up some idiot fantasy about thousands of people being unduly influenced by some image they may or may not have seen somewhere at some time, and then claiming that's what they saw - which idea, quite frankly, is absurd. People just don't do this in such numbers.

How well do you know Strieber, and how familiar are you with his work? Have you even read it? It is IMO problematic in several areas, but his original contribution to understanding and publicising this issue is IMO nevertheless substantial and important.

You often make blanket statements like "There is not a shred of evidence" for this or that, when in reality there is a ton of evidence, if you look into the issue seriously and study the data. This reveals you as substantially ignorant of the subject, and ignorance is not generally a sound basis for opinion on any matter. What you need to do for starters, Kieran, is:

1. Read the existing literature on the abduction issue: about 60 published books exist on the phenomenon from around 40 different authors, about one third of which are seriously worth reading. This will occupy your weekends for a year or two. If you want a reading list, I'll PM it to you and even rate them in importance

2. Contact, meet and form cordial relationships with as many serious researchers into the subject as you can. Travel to see them, interview them, review their work in detail, assess the primary case data. There is an enormous amount of hard data, I assure you. Very few of these data find their way into the public domain

3. Meet, interview, get to know some abductees with detailed recall of their experiences. I personally know about 20 in the British Isles, including (believe it or not) some from Ireland. You find them everywhere, worldwide. Stick to people who have detailed conscious memories and who have never been anywhere near hypnosis, by all means - there's plenty of those (the fact that their accounts detail precisely with others who have used hypnosis to open up their memories is moot). You can even focus exclusively on people who have multiply-witnessed abductions involving more than one person, as there's plenty of those too - if you are patient and serious enough about the subject to persuade them to talk to you, that is


Then, in 3 or 4 years, come back here and you might just have a clue what the fuck you're talking about. Because at the moment, it's manifestly obvious to some of us that you don't.

---------- Post added at 01:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:39 AM ----------



Elendil



---------- Post added at 02:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:53 AM ----------

[/COLOR]

Archie, Icy reply at the end of your post. I don't need to read the abduction- literature as what is known is available online. If you have information that is not in the public domain please do share that information. And Archie, do you not think all this reading about people been taken from their homes by alien beings, has not influenced your thinking somewhat. Look I never said there was no phenomenon taking place, even if the image of the "Grey" creature is detailed wrong, I still believe 'Some' people are having true experiences with something that can not be explained. I know it not popular around here to go against the established view. Sorry for not joining the party.

Your passionate about this stuff. I see that. But how do you know the people you meet in person and talk with are truly experiencing something. I have seen people on video been caught out lying about this stuff before on video. Philip posted a video recently even. Showing a person in that video convinced as Hell something had happened to him in life, even had a story that aliens took him on aboard a spaceship, and that he and his dad saw a spaceship one day. It turned out to be all crap in the end. I think he was also attending local meetings with other people claiming encounters with extraterrestrial beings. Nobody to me it seems ever questioned his credibility and what he claimed!

Archie, I believe you are convinced you were taken-abducted by extraterrestrial beings? I want to avoid a showdown between me and you, but Archie seriously all I have is your word on that. Even if you were taken by aliens how do you know exactly were they'd came from, not to be rude to you, but were you shown a "Star Map" by these extraterrestrials or something?

Archie is not a blanket statement..

According to Bill Chalker a UFO researcher from Australia.

"Whitley told him in a letter. I left it out the visitors had hair. I omitted this element from my book (Communion)in order to have a way of later identifying authentic descriptions of the "visitors" so with S at end of the word Visitor, he obviously has the believe more the one of the beings he saw had hair. It crucial Archie, as Whitley "Other" had Hair, but the descriptions we have got from people claiming alien abduction has over the years mirrored the image on the front cover of communion.

Another case*

When Betty Hill was shown a picture of the common Grey in later life. She said
no sorry. The beings I saw were "Human-like-in appearance" with eyes only slightly larger and more widely spaced. I was wrong before (sorry) Betty never claimed the beings had Grey or big Black eyes. Even more puzzling then I previously thought!

Today the image we have of the Grey is..grey skin black eyes big head bald headed skinny body from a place called Zeti Reticulli *

The presence of hair before the Hypnosis sessions with Dr Simon is not something you can easily dismiss too.

You're well able to express your feelings Archie, but to me, you are too involved in this research to have an unbiased opinion.

 

[Sean Elifritz]

the descriptions we have got from people claiming alien abduction has over the years mirrored the image on the front cover of communion.

Most of the reports I've seen have not mentioned orange or tan beings with virtually no craniums and with long thin noses. The primary similarity between that image and the bulk of the reports is the eyes.

But that being said there are variations in the descriptions, especially when you look at the global picture and the situation before the late 80s. I agree with you that reports have grown more similar over time, but I would argue that the images on Hopkins' books have been more influential in shaping things than the cover art of Communion has been.

 

[Kieran]

Most of the reports I've seen have not mentioned orange or tan beings with virtually no craniums and with long thin noses. The primary similarity between that image and the bulk of the reports is the eyes.

But that being said there are variations in the descriptions, especially when you look at the global picture and the situation before the late 80s. I agree with you that reports have grown more similar over time, but I would argue that the images on Hopkins' books have been more influential in shaping things than the cover art of Communion has been.

Amazon.com: Missing Time (9780345353351): Budd Hopkins

The alien image on the front cover of Missing time is not that different from the image on the front cover of Communion.

 

[Sean Elifritz]

Amazon.com: Missing Time (9780345353351): Budd Hopkins

The alien image on the front cover of Missing time is not that different from the image on the front cover of Communion.

So are you saying that the color of the being and the fact that Strieber's alien has no cranium and therefor couldn't have a brain much larger than a peach pit is not a big deal? They call these things grays (Or greys), after all. Not oranges or tans or whatever color that thing is.

 

[Kieran]

So are you saying that the color of the being and the fact that Strieber's alien has no cranium and therefor couldn't have a brain much larger than a peach pit is not a big deal? They call these things grays (Or greys), after all. Not oranges or tans or whatever color that thing is.

I don't believe people are seeing a creature like the "Grey" Betty originally said the beings she saw were human-looking with dark hair.. Streiber says his aliens had hair but left it out of communion.. So there is problem there which is not been addressed by this community.

Research finds repressed memories don't exist

By Karen Berkman

Updated Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:58am AEDT
A depressed young woman sits on steps

Professor Grant Devilly says traumatised people often have to relive experiences they would rather forget. (http://www.sxc.hu: sanja gjenero, file photo)

The idea that traumatised people, especially the victims of child sexual abuse, deliberately repress horrific memories goes all the way back to the 19th century and the theories of Sigmund Freud himself.

But now some experts are saying the evidence points the other way.

Professor Grant Devilly, from Griffith University's Psychological Health research unit, says the memory usually works in the opposite way, with traumatised people reliving experiences they would rather forget.

"It's the opposite. They wish they couldn't think about it," he said.

In an "Amicus Curiae" (Friend of the Court) briefing to the California Supreme Court, Professor Richard McNally from Harvard University described the theory of repressed memory as "the most pernicious bit of folklore ever to infect psychology and psychiatry".

He maintains false memories can easily be created by inept therapists.

"The stress hormones that are released during a trauma tend to consolidate the memory, make it rather strong and sometimes even intrusive, as you see in post-traumatic stress disorder," he said.

But Professor McNally says some abuse victims do suffer when they reassess childhood experiences much later.

"Seeing the event through the eyes of adult, ttrauma," he said.

The good news is that now, Professor McNally says most victims can be helped.

"Things have changed, happily. We now have treatments that work," he said.

Soldiers returning from war zones, victims of violent crime and sexual abuse, can now be helped by cognitive behaviour therapy, where they learn to assign terrible memories to the past, instead of them crowding their present and future.

Professor Devilly says the therapy is working.

"We're now getting, at the end of between 8 and 12 sessions, 90 to 92 per cent of people no longer meet the criteria for PTSD," he said.

Now psychologists are working to fend off post traumatic stress in high-risk occupations, by teaching recruits to develop resilience.hey realise what has happened to them and now they experience the emotional turmo

 

[Keiko]

I don't need to read the abduction- literature as what is known is available online.

Kieran, one of my favourite chapters in Hopkins 'Missing Time' is Chapter 2 - The Landing in North Hudson Park. It begins when Budd (who has not written anything yet and is only known for his art) visits his local liquor store to buy a bottle of Soave for his supper. The 72 year old owner George O'Barski starts complaining about his arthritic knee and then says something that grabs Budd's attention: "A man can be driving home, minding his own business and something can come down out of the sky and scare you half to death". After Budd assures him he is interested and not going to ridicule him, O'Barski basically tells him about a 30 ft craft that landed in the park the night before, and three and a half foot beings get out and start taking soil samples. They figure out eventually that there is some missing time. O'Barski is quite a character, refuses to be hypnotised and just gets on with his life I guess. Other witnesses are found. He never changes or retracts his story. It's a really good read and whatever people say about his ideas, Budd is a wonderful writer.

I think it's a mistake to rely on getting all your information about any subject online. A person's published works, if they have any, should be the read and if possible in chronological order. That way you get a sense of the formation of their ideas and how and why they may change over time. I often wonder if these beings are dimensional beings...and have heard this being discussed by others. But the truth is most of us, myself included, use this word without any real understanding of it. Take Michio Kaku's books on this which I have yet to read. Dimensions have very exact mathematical formula and I don't think he believes they can be crossed over in our current spacetime. Well there goes my preconcieved ideas My point here is that you've got to go to the source material to inform yourself about a subject.

 

[Kieran]

Kieran, one of my favourite chapters in Hopkins 'Missing Time' is Chapter 2 - The Landing in North Hudson Park. It begins when Budd (who has not written anything yet and is only known for his art) visits his local liquor store to buy a bottle of Soave for his supper. The 72 year old owner George O'Barski starts complaining about his arthritic knee and then says something that grabs Budd's attention: "A man can be driving home, minding his own business and something can come down out of the sky and scare you half to death". After Budd assures him he is interested and not going to ridicule him, O'Barski basically tells him about a 30 ft craft that landed in the park the night before, and three and a half foot beings get out and start taking soil samples. They figure out eventually that there is some missing time. O'Barski is quite a character, refuses to be hypnotised and just gets on with his life I guess. Other witnesses are found. He never changes or retracts his story. It's a really good read and whatever people say about his ideas, Budd is a wonderful writer.

I think it's a mistake to rely on getting all your information about any subject online. A person's published works, if they have any, should be the read and if possible in chronological order. That way you get a sense of the formation of their ideas and how and why they may change over time. I often wonder if these beings are dimensional beings...and have heard this being discussed by others. But the truth is most of us, myself included, use this word without any real understanding of it. Take Michio Kaku's books on this which I have yet to read. Dimensions have very exact mathematical formula and I don't think he believes they can be crossed over in our current spacetime. Well there goes my preconcieved ideas My point here is that you've got to go to the source material to inform yourself about a subject.

I have only looked at two cases and I found what I needed online. I wonder if I would find other problems with other cases if I looked.

 

[Sean Elifritz]

I have only looked at two cases and I found what I needed online. I wonder if I would find other problems with other cases if I looked.

lol, the logic you've been putting forward makes no sense at all. There were reports of gray beings without hair long before Strieber wrote Communion.

 

[Kieran]

lol, the logic you've been putting forward makes no sense at all. There were reports of gray beings without hair long before Strieber wrote Communion.

I think you need to go back read the posts in this thread already discussed that as part of my argument.

 

[Sean Elifritz]

I think you need to go back read the posts in this thread already discussed that as part of my argument.

What, the Betty Hill thing? Who gives a shit what she said? There's more to the literature than two reports. The preponderance of the descriptions have been of gray beings with black eyes. But in addition to that there's tall black ones reported, mantis-types, reptilians, nordics, it goes on and on.

 

[Kieran]

What, the Betty Hill thing? Who gives a shit what she said? There's more to the literature than two reports. The preponderance of the descriptions have been of gray beings with black eyes. But in addition to that there's tall black ones reported, mantis-types, reptilians, nordics, it goes on and on.

Have you been following the thread or just posting stuff randomly? Its important. If two of the most influential cases in ufology, are not on solid ground, how can you trust cases that are not so well-known.

 

[Sean Elifritz]

Have you been following the thread or just posting stuff randomly? Its important. If two of the most influential cases in ufology, are not on solid ground, how can you trust cases that are not so well-known.

I really wonder what you're on. Just because they are the only two cases you've bothered to read about does not mean they are the most influential cases in ufology. The most influential thing on the populace is television, not the Hills or books written by Whitley Strieber. And there's no doubt that television pushes the gray alien with black eyes image very hard.

 

[Kieran]

I really wonder what you're on. Just because they are the only two cases you've bothered to read about does not mean they are the most influential cases in ufology. The most influential thing on the populace is television, not the Hills or books written by Whitley Strieber. And there's no doubt that television pushes the gray alien with black eyes image very hard.

OK Wickerman. What you posted is just crap. Both those cases are very influential man seriously. Anyway I am out of this thread keep it real!

 

[Sean Elifritz]

OK Wickerman. What you posted is just crap. Both those cases are very influential man seriously. Anyway I am out of this thread keep it real!

Yeah, keep saying that over and over again to yourself and maybe it will become true and suddenly everyone will start reporting orange aliens, lol.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Travis Walton gives a description of his abductors as being similar to the typical "gray". It is notable that Walton's experience was in 1975, 12 years prior to Communion.

An Ordinary Day
By Travis Walton
Condensed from the book, Fire in the Sky

They stood still, mutely. They were a little under five feet in height. They had a basic humanoid form: two legs, two arms, hands with five digits each, and a head with the normal human arrangement of features. But beyond the outline, any similarity to humans was terrifyingly absent.

Their thin bones were covered with white, marshmallowy-looking flesh. They had on single-piece coverall-type suits made of soft, swedelike material, orangish brown in color. I could not see any grain in the material, such as cloth has. In fact, their clothes did not appear even to have any seams. I saw no buttons, zippers, or snaps. They wore no belts. The loose billowy garments were gathered at the wrists and perhaps the ankles. They didn't have any kind of raised collar at the neck. They wore simple pinkish tan footwear. I could not make out the details of their shoes, but they had very small feet, about a size four by our measure.

When they extended their hands toward me, I noticed they had no fingernails. Their hands were small, delicate, without hair. Their thin round fingers looked soft and unwrinkled. Their smooth skin was so pale that it looked chalky, like ivory.

Their bald heads were disproportionately large for their puny bodies. They had bulging, oversized craniums, a small jaw structure, and an underdeveloped appearance to their features that was almost infantile. Their thin-lipped mouths were narrow; I never saw them open. Lying close to their heads on either side were tiny crinkled lobes of ears. Their miniature rounded noses had small oval nostrils.

The only facial feature that didn't appear underdeveloped were those incredible eyes! Those glistening orbs had brown irises twice the size of those of a normal human eye's, nearly an inch in diameter! The iris was so large that even parts of the pupils were hidden by the lids, giving the eyes a certain catlike appearance. There was very little of the white part of the eye showing. They had no lashes and no eyebrows.

Kelly Cahill's abductors were somewhat different.

"AN EXTRAORDINARY ENCOUNTER IN THE DANDENONG FOOTHILLS"
The Kelly Cahill Story
It started coming towards us, only slowly, and it had big red eyes. It sounds stupid, but it had great big round red eyes, like huge flies' eyes and they were red like, not like a reflection of red, but like burning red, like . . . fluorescent stop lights, I suppose, that sort of real burning red.

All of a sudden I started screaming out [to my husbands. . . . Now this has really got me baffled because of the fact that a human being doesn't know this, so I don't even know how I came out with this, but I started saying, "They've got no souls." And then I started screaming, "THEY'VE GOT NO SOULS!" Then all of a sudden there were heaps of them in the field, not just one, a whole heap of them, and they started coming towards us . . . faster than a man could run, and they were gliding off the ground. They got halfway across the field.

Peter Khoury's aliens were described as:

Both were naked. One appeared Nordic and the other Asian. Aspects of their appearance were quite odd. The Nordic female had a very elongated face and a sharply point chin. Her eyes appeared to be blue and 2 to 3 times larger than normal. She had very fine wispy blonde hair that seemed to be oddly blown up. Her skin colour was quite light. The dark brown skinned Asian looking woman seemed to have almost completely black eyes. Her hair was black and set in a firm page-boy style.