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Carol Rainey (Mrs. Budd Hopkins)

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Who's the Agent Provocateur?
That's a very legitmate question as in this case there appears to be many of them, aside from the investigator at the heart of this case. Hypnosis is very problematic in these areas, especially when conducted by those with no real training.
With respect, as someone who's actually seen and got an uncut video copy of the October 3, 1992 "showdown" meeting at Budd Hopkins' apartment,
which runs in at 3 hours 18 minutes and 59 seconds, what Hansen claimed took place at that meeting is a complete lie.

Hansen claimed that at that meeting everyone urged him, Stefula and Butler to cease their investigation of Linda's case. What in fact occurred was that
Hansen, Stefula and Butler were urged to wait six months before making reports to the authorities about the case. The reason given was because the case
was still actively developing at that time and Hopkins and co. did not want potential future witnesses to be discouraged from coming forward.

Despite Hansen claiming that he, Stefula and Butler were asked to cease their investigation, he later contradicted himself and admitted they were indeed
asked to wait six months before reporting the incident.

Jerry Clark did nothing wrong at that meeting. He did not do as Hansen claimed and attempt to cover up evidence of an attempted murder. Hansen has been
making up lies, and getting away with making up lies about Linda's case for over two decades.

If you wish more information about Hansen, his lies, antics and his tactics regarding the Cortile case, and others, I recommend the following documents.

New Lies and Old Lies from George Hansen about the Linda Cortile Case - The Linda Cortile UFO Abduction Case Website

The October 3, 1992 "Showdown" Meeting at Budd Hopkins' Apartment - The Linda Cortile UFO Abduction Case Website

Five Rebuttals to George Hansen Contained in the Journal of Parapsychology - The Linda Cortile UFO Abduction Case Website

Two Rebuttals to George Hansen's Claims from Jerome Clark - The Linda Cortile UFO Abduction Case Website

Inaccuracies from George Hansen's Post Critique Documents - The Linda Cortile UFO Abduction Case Website

Inaccuracies from George Hansen's Chapter on the Linda Cortile Case - The Linda Cortile UFO Abduction Case Website

Critique Rejected - The Linda Cortile UFO Abduction Case Website

http://www.lindacortilecase.com/uploads/2/9/1/0/2910920/critique_rejected.pdf



After Hansen, Stefula and Butler filed formal complaints to the Treasury department, the Secret Service, and a handful of other federal agencies, Budd and Linda were contacted by the
Secret Service to discuss the matter in person. Budd and Linda laid out the whole case to them and the Secret Service were very helpful and courteous to them in every respect. Budd and
Linda were told that if any other agencies contacted them about the matter for them to just refer them to the Secret Service. At that the matter was closed. Hansen, Stefula and Butler's
letters were readily recognised by the Secret Service as crackpot letters, and Linda came away with a real respect for the Secret Service.

In regards to how the police would respond to Linda going forward to them to report what happened to her I refer you to Former Chief of Police Richard P. Rosenthal who was interviewed
about the matter and how Linda would be perceived and treated should she have gone forward.

Former Chief of Police Richard P. Rosenthal - The Linda Cortile UFO Abduction Case Website

Other federal agencies in the past became involved in providing security for Linda while Dan was at large in 1991 and early 1992. One such individual witnessed the surveillance being
conducted on Linda.

It was and still is Linda's decision whether she wishes to further report her case, in all of its intricacies and complexities, to the authorities.

Hope the information helps.

Peace

Sean
Sorry, but I see nothing convincing there except that there was a supposed kidnapping by two supposed real people claiming to be NYPD and that there was also a supposed attempted murder and that the sane thing, as suggested by the pro-Cortile team, was to wait six months before going to authorites leaving family and person in jeopardy? This not only makes zero sense but is just plain absurd. The case falls apart right there for me.

The interview with Rosenthal, like much of the circuitous evidence in this case, has someone making judgments about an absence of any real confirmed material. This, like the confirmatios of Dan and Richard, confirmed by other mostly non-existent witnesses, or at least unverifiable folk, do not constitute facts. He sounds lie he could be a police officer, as Rosenthal says, is not a fact, but an opinion about unverifiable material. You can't build a case on suspicious and unconfirmed packages sent in the mail - remmber the Guardian case anyone? These are personal beliefs at best. If this case had any real traction there would be much more press and acceptance from the community instead of a lot of refutations about inaccuracies found in fairly legitimate critcisms. In the world of AP this case does not rank highy for good reason.

When I go meet a Cardinal this Friday and get my pix taken with him I suppose I could also make extaordinary claims such as that my good friend, the Cardinal, met my own abductor, or my talking dog - either way these statements carry no weight nor legitimacy. It's just a well-woven tapestry, for some the weaving is even considered faulty at best. Yes, this is all just opinion, but Zanfretta looks entirely legit compared to this and it's pretty shaky IMHO.
 
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Well, thank you, so it's a compliment. But - what does it mean? :confused: 'Word' - 'Word up' - what does it mean?
The urban dictionary can always help you in these matters. 'Word' as an exclamation is short for prison terminology, "Word is bond," as in the word I speak is a truth I validate with my life. In slang parlance this means you are enthusiastically endorsing the proclaimer or statements made by them as truth. So in this case, Tyger, some see what you are saying as the real truth of the matter. Yes, a strong compliment. In the forum it usually is presented as "/\ /\This!" by pointing out that what was written in the post directly above rings very true for the respondent.
 
Since I have some passing acquaintance with (personality) graphology I want to focus on the 'rebuttal' given by Budd Hopkins in one of Sean Meers' links. In doing this I am not presenting myself as an authority in the least. I am an amateur in personality graphology (the pseudoscience). :) That, of course, gives me no standing whatsoever, except to say, that I have a passing interest in analyzing handwriting, and have analyzed a bit over the years 'for fun'. I am not a forensic graphologist.

Budd Hopkins states: "The well-known, reliable investigator Don Ledger posted the following on UFO Updates on March 7:"
I wish to draw your attention to the fact that no matter how 'reliable' an investigator Mr Ledger may be, he is making his assessment based on what he sees in Carol Rainey's video. :confused: Yet, Mr Ledger posits his interpretation as superior to Mr Rubin, who was the forensic graphologist who had the documents in front of him and had done an in-person analysis. Right here we are on shaky ground with anything Mr Ledger might suggest as pre-empting the in-person investigator. He openly states: "I note the following from observing the video:"

What I saw did not convince me, Carol. In fact, if anything I question your expert."
Pretty cheeky, given that he did not have the extensive exemplars of Linda's writing in front of him as did Rubin, who also likely had hours - potentially across days - to view and study the exemplars and make the comparison.

Then there is this -

You have the two different Budd Hopkins written in each case and not only in my estimation did the 'Hs" or 2s not match but identical letters in the names - either before or after - didn't come close to matching.
I defy anyone not to be amazed at the similarity of the '2' s. The similarity of the '2' s is the seal - given everything else. Even for Rubin, as he says, the '2' did it - same person wrote both samples. The probability of two random people making similar 2's like this, right down to the down stroke, is very, very low - but add to that the 'H' s (and other elements) - and the probability is further impacted.

Rubin was doing a forensic analysis and the similarity between the two samples is significant. Ledger states: "H: Linda starts with a straight downstroke for the first line of the H. Janet starts with a curved line going down and then up leading to the top of the downstroke for the first line of the H. The downward slant in the middle of the H is common and is not idiosyncratic. Linda's and Janet's H s are not virtually identical as Rubin states."

This is slightly off as I see it: Janet's H starts with a single up-stroke, then a down stroke. Linda's starts with a single downstroke. In terms of forensic graphology this difference is not significant (apparently) or when working with the larger sample. However, in personality graphology (the pseudoscience) it is significant: as the lead-in stroke suggests 'planning' and deliberate forethought (what one would expect with the envelope writer - who could potentially have been trying to mask their writing) but not necessarily with the H in a quickly penned letter. Rubin was looking at about 6 to 7 pages of Linda's handwriting, so we can assume that he had a good handle on her H formation. Mr Ledger did not have that largesse of sample.

What Rudin points out is the strange curve in the second stroke - idiosyncratic to both samples - and remember he is deciding what we see as he is choosing from the larger 'Linda sample' to show us what drives his conclusions. In fact, what I see there is an unusual - and yes, idiosyncratic - 'underlooping' of the H's crossbar. To find this in two (apparently random) samples being compared is also unusual. Not only are we seeing one element similar - but because it is a forensic analysis that has to do (in part) with the sum total of 'coincidences' - we are being shown several elements that, taken as a whole, point to a conclusion. The forensic examiner is trying to determine the origin of a document - in this case - if the two samples originate with the same person. It's a percentage game.

The H's are identical in the manner of their construction. To the casual eye they might appear different, but I agree with Rubin from what he has chosen to show us, to back up his conclusion. You can well see that Linda changes her formation of the 'B' in Budd's name several times - we do not always form our letters the same but we approach their construction the same. This is the point with the 'H'.

As for Ledger's point about the small letters following the 'H' in Budd's name being different in the two samples - and please note in the following the distinct difference in a forensic approach and in a personality approach. I am giving the personality approach to graphology. The forensic graphologist is going no where near any personality interpretations. He is solely looking at formation.

What I see in Linda's small letters is a lot of tight looping - this is what Ledger is noting (that Janet did not tightly loop her small letters). There is not so much looping in the Janet writing - which was a simple address, no stress evident when writing that. This is of note in personality graphology (the pseudoscience). In forensic analysis Rubin notes that the o's resemble a's in both samples. That is enough from a forensic perspective (I guess). However, from a personalty interpretation, Linda's writing - her tight looping - clearly shows 'secrets'. Linda's writing reveals a lot of conflict around being completely open. There are many secrets. This does not mean she's a liar, or is lying about her experience btw - it is simply an indication that nothing is as it seems with her, she will hold things back, keep things private. It can indicate lying but we would have to see many samples of her writing written in many circumstances to be able to state this with any degree of 'certainty', and even then it's a question of interpretation.

Ledger writes -
S: Almost all of Linda's S's have tails that slant radically up. The one example of Janet's S is tucked at the end and does not have a tail. There is a word in one of Linda's documents when the S is not tucked but every other one has a tail.
Remember that Rubin was not working from an extensive exemplar of Janet's writing. Actually the above is not the case. In a clear sample of Linda's writing shown - a note written to Budd - one can see that all the end s's are closed, rather than with a generous final stroke. In another sample we see the presence of all s's with long final strokes - a sign of generosity btw, or a very emotionally giving person. (I think that's clear from the videos of Linda - she is that for sure). Other times she is feeling more circumspect and the finals do not appear - she's holding back, conserving. (The occasionally exaggerated finals can also suggest a feeling nature to the point of exaggeration/histrionics).
Ledger writes -
B: Linda's B starts at the top and loops around to the left and to the top to complete the right side of the B. Janet's B starts at the bottom below the address line and comes straight up to the top to begin the formation of the right side of the B.
Well, it really depends. I saw 3 distinctly different 'B' s in Linda's writing, and one when she writes Budd's name in a note is exactly like the Janet writing 'B' on the envelope. Rubin chooses not to talk about the B similarities.

2: Linda's documents have three 2 examples. In two of them they are completely different from Janet's 2's. There are two examples of the 2 in Janet's writings. Both of Janet's 2's are slanted to the right, and have a line at the end of the loop in the 2 that goes straight down below the 2. Linda's other 2 is not slanted right and has a line at the end of the loop that starts up and then curves down very slightly below the 2.
I'm puzzled by this. I don't see at all what Ledger is saying. Rather, I do see what Rubin is saying - the construction of the 2's is amazingly similar for two random samples.

N: Linda's small N is tight at the beginning of it. Janet's small N is tight at the end of the letter. They are not the same.
The above is not so - on the envelope, Janet's 'n' is tight on the second loop (not the first as Ledger states) but Linda's 'n' varies - because we have a larger sample. One can find her 'n' s tight on either first or second loop, but it is the construction of the second loop that is telling. As Rubin shows there appear n's in Linda's writing that are virtually identical to the 'n' in Janet's writing. Not every n - that's not the point.
Ledger sums up - or is it Hopkins? At this point the quotation becomes murky -

The above clearly visible information shows that it is obvious that the two handwriting samples are not from the same person.

Ledger has 'proved' nothing of the kind. He can't. He can only offer an opinion based on a video. The analyst with the edge here has to be Rubin who looked at the exemplars in person over hours.

And Rubin does not stand by his “opinions” (as he describes his findings) with any real conviction today. Contacted by a member of my team, he replied in an email on March 12 that “this case is very old and unfortunately I don't have a file under her [Kimball's] name or Carol Rainey's. I only retain a vague recollection of my encounter with the writing and shooting the video…Not remembering the case prevents me from asserting what standards or tests I used.” He goes on to say that “All findings are open to interpretation and challenge. My findings are not considered as factual or evidentiary, they are opinions and can be contested by opposing opinions.”
There is a lot of conflating of identities here. Based on quotation marks one assumes one is listening to Mr Ledger's analysis - yet we slide into this paragraph that states that a 'member of my team' contacted Rubin - in the screen shot Sean Meers is being addressed. :confused: Can someone unravel this for me? Sorry to be muddled - but the quoting is hard to follow. I guess this is suppose to be Budd Hopkins speaking - and Sean Meers is a 'member of his team'. It (seems) clear :confused: from the above that Budd Hopkins is quoting an e-mail he says Sean Meers received from Rubin (though the quotation marks would indicate that Ledger is still speaking - oh well).

Sean Meers gives a screen shot of the e-mail in his link. However, all relevant identifiers are inked out so it is not provable who the e-mail is from. We are told it is from Rubin. You can read it as I've linked to it here. My initial read of the e-mail is not a concern. However, Budd Hopkins has reported the words in the e-mail in such a way that casts a question over Rubin's analysis. In fact, given the dicey nature of the content of the links, I am questioning whether Rubin actually wrote the e-mail. Meers.jpg
Budd Hopkins continues -
All interested readers can examine for themselves the letters and numbers in Rainey's tape and check out the dissimilar details Mr. Rubin apparently overlooked. Also I have found in my files more handwriting by Janet Kimball which could help any future graphologist make a more accurate analysis of the similarities/dissimilarities in the writing. If need be, I will take these samples and the Kimball envelope to new experts, along with additional samples of Linda's writing.
 
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BTW - one point: in my initial cursory commentary on the forensic/personality graphology in Post#139, I mentioned that it was my opinion that there was not enough written exemplars from Janet to draw a successful conclusion - and that any forensic analyst would know that. I was wrong - because Rubin states very clearly in the video that he felt that there was enough from Janet on the envelope to make a forensic determination. He also stated his conclusion with utmost confidence.

Two points -

- in personality graphology one would need far more writing samples from Janet to give an accurate reading, hence my overstatement. I really do not know much of forensic graphology, except what I gleaned from watching how Rubin worked.

- most importantly, as I consider everything I am seeing in certain of the Sean Meers links, I am less and less convinced that Roger Rubin wrote the e-mail Sean Meers is posting as from Rubin. While I see it as a professional statement, something is not adding up. Why would Rubin communicate by e-mail for one?

But look here - from Wiki - why would Rubin, trained as a forensic graphologist and identifying himself as a document examiner, and as someone who has given evidence in court, unravel his credentials which are as follows - makes no sense - I am leaning towards a confabulation by 'someone' - the Roger Rubin e-mail may be bogus.

(Standard Guide for Scope of Work of Forensic Document Examiners) indicates there are four components to the work of a forensic document examiner. It states that an examiner "makes scientific examinations, comparisons, and analyses of documents in order to:
    1. establish genuineness or nongenuineness, or to expose forgery, or to reveal alterations, additions or deletions,
    2. identify or eliminate persons as the source of handwriting,
    3. identify or eliminate the source of typewriting or other impression, marks, or relative evidence, and
    4. write reports or give testimony, when needed, to aid the users of the examiner's services in understanding the examiner's findings."
 
Last bit for tonight - Budd Hopkins writes about the drawings -

In her taped piece, Rainey also tries to raise doubts about two independent drawings of the UFO incident, with the goal, apparently, of claiming that Richard's and Janet's drawings were done by the same person, as she did with the handwriting samples. She mentions the fact that both sets were made with colored pencil, and finds this suspicious. Now for a would-be illustrator untrained in oil or watercolor, the range of media available to produce detailed colored drawings comes down to crayons and magic markers - which are both awkward and unwieldy for rendering details - or colored pencils, the closest thing to writing in color. Unsurprisingly, both chose that
medium.
Colored pencil - for some reason I thought the pictures were done in crayon. At some point crayon was mentioned which was why I went with that. I determined how highly unlikely it would be for two random people to have access to crayons, and more - to understand layering colors with crayon. The layering I am seeing in the pictures is very sophisticated (imo) for non-artists. Very delicate, in fact. The layering technique is also the same in both pictures. What are the odds of two random people having the same understanding about layering of color? Does anyone in the general populace understand layering of color to begin with?

But now it is being identified as colored pencil. Okay. Makes more sense. That is layered colored pencil we are looking at - far more acceptable. However, again I must haul out human nature - who among us has a set of colored pencils handy to draw such craftsmanlike sketches? Not many. How many people know how to use colored pencils to good effect, as in a rendering of something you have seen? Not many. How many people, pure and simple, can draw with precision? Not many. What are the odds of two random people producing drawings with the levels of technical similarity we see in those renderings? The odds are pretty high against such, I'd wager.

The problems with these drawings are myriad.

In a comment to one of the videos, someone outright said that Budd Hopkins had done the drawings. Then I find out that he was a trained artist. Bingo! Oh dear - there it is. Yep, those drawings have all the earmarks of a draftsman imo - a very precise person. If two people drew these drawings - they are very, very similar people - and what are the odds of two random people being so similar? Not high I would say. But more to the point, very, very few people understand how to layer color with colored pencil to good effect. You have to have knowledge to do that. These drawings are far from sketches - they are well-thought out compositions, with perspective, no less. Budd Hopkins lucked out big time with these two witnesses is all I can say.

One must remember that each witness is trying to render the same scene; therefore it is not surprising that details such as the colors of the brilliant light from the UFO are approximately the same. Janet Kimball sent several drawings, and the one Rainey selected for her tape was, of course, the one least dissimilar from Richard's drawings.
For me it's far from the colors - its the technique. Two random people just do not exhibit the same technique like that. Possible, yes - probable, no. The more I really start to look at this stuff in detail the more it looks as wonky as it did from a distance. :rolleyes:
 
Okay, my real last bit for the night. :cool:

I want to quote Carol Rainey. I find this quote very pertinent in general, with this the stand-out: "I am simply, in this excerpt, using this one example of abduction research to illustrate the problems that continue to plague a field that cannot discipline itself or hold its researchers to any protocols that would be acceptable by mainstream scientists." Valid and laudable. It's clear she has a story to tell. Man'o'man is she ever being slammed for not following ufo orthodoxy. She needs to be heard without all the sturm und drang.

This is Carol Rainey's response to a poster to one of her videos on YouTube -
"Adam - No need to feel sorry for me. I observed abduction research up close and personal for 10 years; so I have certainly “looked into it.” But I came from a background of working with research scientists, which Budd did not. I found that most methods used by UFO researchers to be not only lacking in protocols, but also often lacking in ethics.

"You are simply incorrect to assume that I find individuals’ anomalous experiences to be invalid. That is not at all what I believe, nor is that what this excerpt from a longer documentary is saying. In the longer film, which is coming when funding is secured and a book completed, you will see that I also believe Budd was a good-hearted person who intended to help people marginalized by their experiences. I am simply, in this excerpt, using this one example of abduction research to illustrate the problems that continue to plague a field that cannot discipline itself or hold its researchers to any protocols that would be acceptable by mainstream scientists.

"Yes, experience is a valid way of knowing. John Mack was a dearly beloved friend of mine, with whom I discussed such issues for years. You, however, are denying the validity of my experiences as an insider in this field for ten years. That’s quite ironic, don’t you think
?"
When a Poster States: "Alien Anductions are real, you are a miserable hypocrite."
Rainey's response: "I did not say they were not real. Before resorting to childish name calling, please review what I actually said. You have developed major assumptions about a longer film you have not seen and you seem to have invented, whole cloth, a picture of me which is not justified by the actual video or my words. So your motive is unclear; the thinking process even less clear."

Another Poster States: "It amazed me when I posted these series of videos in a number of groups on facebook. I was attacked and in many of the groups the videos were taken down. It was then I began to understand how many, many, many people in the UFO community are so committed to ufolore that anyone like Carol who shines a light on what actually goes on behind the scenes; they just can't handle it. And of course Budd; The darling, the Prince of ufology, how dare you question his methods. hmm I despair. Carol thanks for your work, its refreshing to see that there are people who are ready to cast a critical eye on the methods employed by researchers within this field. We all know that abduction is a real phenomenon, what we don't know is that many researchers knowingly or not will go to lengths to support this reality using questionable methods which ultimately brings ufology into disrepute. I am very suspect of most so-called researchers and self-styled UFO experts. The lies, the mud slinging, the claims and of course the book sales. I despair! It is no wonder ufology has made no in roads into the mainstream today. It is no wonder Ufology hasn't gotten its act together over the years."
 
That's a very legitmate question as in this case there appears to be many of them, aside from the investigator at the heart of this case. Hypnosis is very problematic in these areas, especially when conducted by those with no real training.

Sorry, but I see nothing convincing there except that there was a supposed kidnapping by two supposed real people claiming to be NYPD and that there was also a supposed attempted murder and that the sane thing, as suggested by the pro-Cortile team, was to wait six months before going to authorites leaving family and person in jeopardy? This not only makes zero sense but is just plain absurd. The case falls apart right there for me.

The interview with Rosenthal, like much of the circuitous evidence in this case, has someone making judgments about an absence of any real confirmed material. This, like the confirmatios of Dan and Richard, confirmed by other mostly non-existent witnesses, or at least unverifiable folk, do not constitute facts. He sounds lie he could be a police officer, as Rosenthal says, is not a fact, but an opinion about unverifiable material. You can't build a case on suspicious and unconfirmed packages sent in the mail - remmber the Guardian case anyone? These are personal beliefs at best. If this case had any real traction there would be much more press and acceptance from the community instead of a lot of refutations about inaccuracies found in fairly legitimate critcisms. In the world of AP this case does not rank highy for good reason.

When I go meet a Cardinal this Friday and get my pix taken with him I suppose I could also make extaordinary claims such as that my good friend, the Cardinal, met my own abductor, or my talking dog - either way these statements carry no weight nor legitimacy. It's just a well-woven tapestry, for some the weaving is even considered faulty at best. Yes, this is all just opinion, but Zanfretta looks entirely legit compared to this and it's pretty shaky IMHO.

The insistence that one go down the rabbit hole makes for good theatre, but the merest glance makes for dubious travel. Your observations are dead-on. A more full-of-holes story I cannot recall. Very sad, really. It's transparently bogus - yet so many actually are convinced. I don't know what to say.
 
Dear Paracast forum,

Sean here.

Since I left this thread a few days back to continue work on my latest paper it's come to my attention that it is now being
alleged at this forum that the emails from Roger Rubin, referenced in one of Budd Hopkins' rebuttals to Carol Rainey,
"may be bogus".

The evidence for this allegation is apparently:

* Rubin's email address in the "FROM:" section of the email is censored.
* My email address in the "TO:" section of the email is censored.
* Rubin chose to respond to my questions by email.

For the sake of clarity on the matter I have decided to post this followup information regarding the issue.

I sent Rubin a physical letter initially, I did this because I was able to locate his physical address not his email address.
He chose to respond to my letter by email. If I had to guess why it was because it was faster than snail mail and I included
my email address within the letter.

I have the original *.EML format copies of Rubin's emails (compatible for Outlook Express 6 on Windows XP). I sent the
original emails to Budd Hopkins' email address as attachments. These included raw *.EML attachments and *.RAR archived
copies. Hopkins had *.EML copies of the originals.

The "FROM:" and "TO:" sections of the email are censored because they display email addresses (Rubin's and mine), as opposed
to simply the names of each party. I'm not publishing Rubin's email or mine, we are both entitled to our privacy. The redacting
of personal information is common practice when publishing data and communications. The fact that this is being used in an
attempt to undermine the substance of the email itself is extremely tenuous at best.

As an aside to this issue, I would also like to state for the record that I am in concurrence with what has been posted in regards
to Don Ledger offering his input on the handwriting. What Ledger offered was his opinion on the matter, nothing more. He never
claimed to be trained in either Forensic Document Examination or Graphology, nor did Hopkins purport him as such. What
Hopkins published was simply Don's opinion. It was Hopkins decision to do so and is frankly neither here nor there since Hopkins
didn't purport Don to be an expert.

Due to the nature of what was being claimed about the handwriting at the time I wanted to learn for myself whether there was
any substance to Rainey and Rubin's claims. I therefore researched and located Steve Dubedat, a real forensic document examiner
(not a graphologist), and contracted him to perform an examination and comparison between Janet Kimball's handwriting and
Linda Cortile's handwriting. His findings are available at the link below.

Results from a Legitimate Forensic Document Examination - The Linda Cortile UFO Abduction Case Website

Before I go I would just like to point out that Budd Hopkins was dying when he wrote both his rebuttals to Carol Rainey's claims.
Given his health at that time (stage four of cancer) it was a miracle, something I pointed out quite tersely to a debunker who attempted
to debunk Budd's rebuttals at that time, that he was able to write anything. He died months before he could see the results from Dubedat's
Forensic Document Examination. The fact that he died so shortly after his rebuttals were published in 2011 was heartbreaking.

I want to say thank you again to the Paracast users who offered their kind support to me throughout all this. I also want to thank the
legitimately skeptical who have listened and offered some excellent quality Devil's Advocate questions to this process.

I sincerely regret that I can't be here more often to discuss the case, but the work involved on it is immense and keeps me incredibly
busy most of the time.

Best wishes and I hope this information is of value to the curious.

Sincerely

Sean F. Meers

P.S. I imagine since it has simply been baselessly alleged that the emails from Rubin are fake that it will now be accepted and
reflected upon as fact by the debunkers of this forum.
 
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Mr Meers;
It is my hope that regardless of if Linda was taken by Aliens or not she has gotten and will continue to get the help she need. Linda suffers because of this I would gather daily. Linda is scarred by a most horrid event one dramatic and swift. I work with victims of sexual assault daily. I can say Linda would benefit from ongoing concealing. I pray she gets it what ever the cause may be. whatever happened to Linda I can say with certainty Linda truly believes it happened as she recalls it. And that's all that matters to me in this case.
Seven fold blessings upon you and Linda
Victoria Watson
(Rikki)
 
Mr Meers;
It is my hope that regardless of if Linda was taken by Aliens or not she has gotten and will continue to get the help she need. Linda suffers because of this I would gather daily. Linda is scarred by a most horrid event one dramatic and swift. I work with victims of sexual assault daily. I can say Linda would benefit from ongoing concealing. I pray she gets it what ever the cause may be. whatever happened to Linda I can say with certainty Linda truly believes it happened as she recalls it. And that's all that matters to me in this case.
Seven fold blessings upon you and Linda
Victoria Watson
(Rikki)
That's a really kind response Rikki, something to remember when we talk about people here:)
 
That's a very legitmate question as in this case there appears to be many of them, aside from the investigator at the heart of this case. Hypnosis is very problematic in these areas, especially when conducted by those with no real training.
Sorry, but I see nothing convincing there except that there was a supposed kidnapping by two supposed real people claiming to be NYPD and that there was also a supposed attempted murder and that the sane thing, as suggested by the pro-Cortile team, was to wait six months before going to authorites leaving family and person in jeopardy? This not only makes zero sense but is just plain absurd. The case falls apart right there for me.

The interview with Rosenthal, like much of the circuitous evidence in this case, has someone making judgments about an absence of any real confirmed material. This, like the confirmatios of Dan and Richard, confirmed by other mostly non-existent witnesses, or at least unverifiable folk, do not constitute facts. He sounds lie he could be a police officer, as Rosenthal says, is not a fact, but an opinion about unverifiable material. You can't build a case on suspicious and unconfirmed packages sent in the mail - remmber the Guardian case anyone? These are personal beliefs at best. If this case had any real traction there would be much more press and acceptance from the community instead of a lot of refutations about inaccuracies found in fairly legitimate critcisms. In the world of AP this case does not rank highy for good reason.

When I go meet a Cardinal this Friday and get my pix taken with him I suppose I could also make extaordinary claims such as that my good friend, the Cardinal, met my own abductor, or my talking dog - either way these statements carry no weight nor legitimacy. It's just a well-woven tapestry, for some the weaving is even considered faulty at best. Yes, this is all just opinion, but Zanfretta looks entirely legit compared to this and it's pretty shaky IMHO.
I'm still completely baffled that the believers in this case thinks there's any solid evidence/proof.
 
BTW - one point: in my initial cursory commentary on the forensic/personality graphology in Post#139, I mentioned that it was my opinion that there was not enough written exemplars from Janet to draw a successful conclusion - and that any forensic analyst would know that. I was wrong - because Rubin states very clearly in the video that he felt that there was enough from Janet on the envelope to make a forensic determination. He also stated his conclusion with utmost confidence.

Two points -

- in personality graphology one would need far more writing samples from Janet to give an accurate reading, hence my overstatement. I really do not know much of forensic graphology, except what I gleaned from watching how Rubin worked.

- most importantly, as I consider everything I am seeing in certain of the Sean Meers links, I am less and less convinced that Roger Rubin wrote the e-mail Sean Meers is posting as from Rubin. While I see it as a professional statement, something is not adding up. Why would Rubin communicate by e-mail for one?

But look here - from Wiki - why would Rubin, trained as a forensic graphologist and identifying himself as a document examiner, and as someone who has given evidence in court, unravel his credentials which are as follows - makes no sense - I am leaning towards a confabulation by 'someone' - the Roger Rubin e-mail may be bogus.

(Standard Guide for Scope of Work of Forensic Document Examiners) indicates there are four components to the work of a forensic document examiner. It states that an examiner "makes scientific examinations, comparisons, and analyses of documents in order to:
    1. establish genuineness or nongenuineness, or to expose forgery, or to reveal alterations, additions or deletions,
    2. identify or eliminate persons as the source of handwriting,
    3. identify or eliminate the source of typewriting or other impression, marks, or relative evidence, and
    4. write reports or give testimony, when needed, to aid the users of the examiner's services in understanding the examiner's findings."
Of course Rubin's email is bogus, just like the entire case. Good work.
 
Creepy what is the motivation to hoax?
Yah, I'm on the fence too! I haven't even read up on the case.
That's a good question. What motivates any hoax? Whether it's Manteo (NFL player with fake girlfriend hoax), the Billy Meier hoax, Colorado balloon boy hoax, loch ness monster photo hoax, Big foot expo hoax et etc? In Linda's case, I can't quite say. But personally, in my opinion, and I say this with respect now that I learned more (in spite of what I previously said in which I regret). I think she's mentally unstable. In my job that I've been doing in the last 10 years (marketing consultant) I get about 60 seconds to size a new client up when I meet them. I determine if I believe they are a director, socializer, relator, etc. I also determine if I think they are " all there or not". I'm 90%+ accurate. And that's the feeling I get with her.

And there are a lot of head scratching moments where if you just step back for a minute you say "huh? Now that makes no sense." But the backers keep using imaginary witnesses and bogus proof. Something this monumental and you would think people would be beating doors down to report what they saw (like you see regularly on the news when they're interviewing witnesses to a crime/disaster). Not mysterious witnesses that have fake names and no last names. Witnesses that were first NYPD officers but then later are security guards. Other outlandish claims of knowing the Cardinal and being abducted along with John Gotti (really??). Having an X-ray of something in your nose but....an X-ray tech didn't do it. A family member did and the list goes on and on.

Also, I'm not sure what part of the country you live in, but NYC is enormous. In 1989 there were about 7.3 MILLION people living there. It's the city that never sleeps, right? If a flying saucer was even spotted over New York City, at ANY time of the day, there would be 1000's of witnesses. There would be video. There would be photos (yes, I'm talking old school 35mm or 110 exposure and VHS tapes). It would be all over the news. MUCH like the Morristown, NJ UFO hoax (which I'll get to later). But she's saying one better! A flying saucer hovered right outside her NYC apartment, levitated her out of her bed, opened her window, levitated her out of the window, raised her into their flying saucer, with some gray aliens for good measure, and hovered away into the night? Then the flying saucer reappears to put her back. Then the process repeats itself. Multiple times! All under the nose of 7.3 MILLION people? And mysteriously there's only a handful of witnesses with her case? And nobody has real first and last names? Nobody can go on record with what a happened? Nobody called 911 or the police? Not only for the UFO, but for Linda being taken away in a van. Pieces of proof have to be mysteriously made through the mail? "Cousin Connie" has to call Budd on the phone (Linda pretending to be Connie). I know it's not the same exact same thing, but it's just as ridiculous; it would be like saying a flying saucer landed on the field during the super bowl and nobody got a picture or video. Including all the media covering the game. Her entire case stinks right from the start and some of the reasons why are outlined above.
 
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BTW, look at just some of the coverage and reaction you get when people (in this example, a pilot, his wife, and children) see what they think is a solid craft flying/hovering at night). It's on the news, the witnesses are on the news, we can verify their names, addresses etc. and this was over Morristown, NJ! Could you imagine if it was NYC?

In ufology, anytime we get anonymous "proof", we get garbage. I.E. Guardian case, alien autopsy, Cortile case.

We get solid witnesses, proof (confirmed radar reports, people we can see & interview), we a lot of times get good cases. I.E. Lawrence Coyne Army helicopter case, Japan Airlines (JAL) case etc.
 
Here's a different clip. At one point in one of the 911 calls the caller even thinks THEY ARE balloons with flares attached. Yet he STILL CALLED 911 for that. Imagine how many calls there would be if people saw a structured flying saucer levitating citizens out of their bedroom windows and flying away with them. How many 911 calls did the Cortile abduction generate? Oh right, none.
 
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Creepy what is the motivation to hoax?
Some people have major self-esteem issues and like to position themselves at the centre of attention. There may be other psychological issues at work that may motivate a person to construct such an elaborate ruse. But keep in mind that intentions may not all be the same. For an investigator who is looking for "evidence" of abduction they may easily become co-creators of a monumental mythic abduction case. Once that case becomes a focus of such large proportions everything else will fall by the wayside and now all new "evidence" becomes more pieces to a puzzle that has no real cornerstone pieces or edges. Suddenly everyone can play a role in manufacturing truth, even real humans may crawl out from the woodwork to capture a minor moment of fame and claim witness.

In this case there is a paradox for me regarding the level of personal jeopardy at work and the great public attention drawn to the person at the centre of the case. Most inclinations would be to retreat, go underground, hide from the public eye and make oneself even less accessible to keep the family safe and to involve as many levels of law enforcement officials as possible to find the attempted murderer and kidnapper. The last thing on my mind would be to involve my own child in my abduction confabulation and allow them to see themselves as an abductee - that's just psychologically damaging and demonstrates the nature of those who would hoax an abduction scenario - their own ego is more important than a child's welfare. I can not get over that hurdle in this case.

It's interesting to note by the way that while there are abduction claims of people by all ages, the only time children show up is through either someone claiming lifetime abductions or by those who claim personal abduction and then extend their claims to their own children as heard previously on the Paracast. Such claims bring back memories of the claims in the 80's by children of ritual satanic abuse who also had parents who supported such bizarre claims - all proven false eventually btw.
 
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