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Charlie Hebdo attacks

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We make fun of JC all the time in the west. Any good Monty Python fan is quite familiar with how Christianity, specifically Catholocisim is taken to task. Is not every sperm sacred? And how can you not have some good fun with such notions.

I do not understand why the fanatical response gets so mortal over humor? When you think about it, the Christians only bomb abortion clinics and shoot abortion doctors, and there have been priests, just like Imams, who have encouraged and radicalized people to do such things.

I often wonder about how long it will take to modernize Islam, or whether or not these terrorist acts and acts of fanaticism are tied to issues of poverty and patriarchy as it seems that when things are a little more desperate you can rule with male violence.

Now it wan't too long ago in earth's history that you could get burned at the stake for making fun of the Christian god. In fact mass torture was not an uncommon thing back in the good ole days of the inquisition. Perhaps, once the standard of living rises and Muslim women are able have their own power that we will see far fewer acts of fanaticism as a result.
 
Burnt State said:
We make fun of JC all the time in the west. Any good Monty Python fan is quite familiar with how Christianity, specifically Catholocisim is taken to task. Is not every sperm sacred? And how can you not have some good fun with such notions.

I do not understand why the fanatical response gets so mortal over humor? When you think about it, the Christians only bomb abortion clinics and shoot abortion doctors, and there have been priests, just like Imams, who have encouraged and radicalized people to do such things.

I often wonder about how long it will take to modernize Islam, or whether or not these terrorist acts and acts of fanaticism are tied to issues of poverty and patriarchy as it seems that when things are a little more desperate you can rule with male violence.

Now it wan't too long ago in earth's history that you could get burned at the stake for making fun of the Christian god. In fact mass torture was not an uncommon thing back in the good ole days of the inquisition. Perhaps, once the standard of living rises and Muslim women are able have their own power that we will see far fewer acts of fanaticism as a result.
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You make a very good point.

Its no secret i find all religion silly, but when we compare the two examples you cite, one has evolved while the other remains rigidly locked in its 6th century ideology.

Apoligists often toss up the old testament and use the comparrison to make their point.

This link does just that, note the comment at the end "i see what you did there"

Violent Quotes Finally Prove Islam Is Evil?

And its true the OT is filled with just as much violence and filth as the koran is.

But when we lay the two examples side by side and walk down the timeline to today it gets interesting

The Xstian manuscript starts off with the examples from the link above, but down the line the narrative morphs to one of love they neighbour, peace and love.
Conversly the koran starts off fairly peaceful, With Mo preaching tolerance etc etc. but as he sufferes military defeats and gets exiled from mecca he gets more violent. and the texts reflect this.
Since interpretation of these texts uses abrogation the latter more violent commands, overide the earlier peaceful ones

This article gives a good overview

Mohammed in Medina 622-30 by Will Durant

He orginally preaches equality for jews

. Mohammed drew up with these Jews a subtle concordant:
The Jews who attach themselves to our commonwealth shall be protected from all insults and vexations; they shall have an equal right with our own people to our assistance and good offices; they...shall form with the A'loslcms one composite nation; they shall practice their religion as freely as the Moslems...They shall join the Moslems in defending Yathrib against all enemies. All future disputes between those who accept this charter shall be referred, under God, to the Prophet.

But later when they decided they couldnt stomach his behavior

The Jews of Medina no longer liked this warlike faith, which had once seemed so flatteringly kindred to their own. They laughed at Mohammed's interpretations of their Scriptures, and his claim to be the Messiah promised by their prophets. He retaliated with revelations in which Allah charged the Jews with corrupting the Scriptures, killing the prophets, and rejecting the Messiah. Originally he had made Jerusalem the qibla - the point toward which Moslems should turn in prayer; in 624 he changed this to Mecca and the Kaaba.
The Jews accused him of returning to idolatry. About this time a Moslem girl visited the market of the Banu-Kainuka Jews in Medina; as she sat in a goldsmiths shop a mischievous Jew pinned her skirt behind her to her upper dress. When she arose she cried out in shame at her exposure. A Moslem slew the offending Jew, whose brothers then slew the Moslem. Mohammed marshaled his followers, blockaded the Banu-Kainuka Jews in their quarter for fifteen days, accepted their surrender, and bade them, 700 in number, depart from Medina, and leave all their possessions behind.


So when we compare the social evolution of the two theologys we can see one has become kinder, gentler. the other became more hostile and violent

Killing those who mock MO has a precident that carrys through to the 21st century as weve seen yet again today

Strengthened by victory, Mohammed used the customary morality of war. Asma, a Medinese poetess, having attacked him in her rhymes, Omeir, a blind Moslem, made his way into her room, and plunged his sword so fervently into the sleeping woman's breast that it affixed her to the couch. In the mosque the next morning Mohammed asked Omeir, "Hast thou slain Asma?" "Yes," answered Omeir, "is there cause for apprehension?" "None," said the Prophet, "a couple of goats will hardly knock their heads together for it."
Afak, a centenarian convert to Judaism, composed a satire on the Prophet, and was slain as he slept in his courtyard. A third Medinese poet, Kab ibn al-Ashraf, son of a Jewess, abandoned Islam when Mohammed turned against the Jews; he wrote verses prodding the Quraish to avenge their defeat, and enraged the Moslems by addressing love sonnets to their wives in premature troubadour style. "Who will ease me of this man?" asked Mohammed. That evening the poet's severed head was laid at the Prophet's feet. In the Moslem view these executions were a legitimate defense against treason; Mohammed was the head of a state, and had full authority to condemn.
 
I don't necessarily disagree with you Mike, I think all that talk about Islam being a tolerant religion is a load of crap. Having said that I tend to look at this as a bigger picture type of thing. The thing is if religion had never been conceived there would still groups of people who would insist on pushing their own will on others and would be performing these horrendous acts. Religion is just an enabler. There is a rise of fascism in Europe no doubt in response to these Islamo fascists who think they can dictate the ways of the world. I would ask them if a certain person or group does insult a deity, why not let that deity deal with them in the afterlife. Who made you judge, jury and executioner ? If a person who says they found God and turned their life around i would ask them If you were a druid would you turn your life around because you found a elm? I think we all know people tend to have a good or evil bent in them and a strong belief in anything would strengthen that belief. Maybe it is a cultural sickness that Paul Levy and Jack Forbes talk of, although I think Mr. Hobbs book was a little slanted.
 
Let's remember the folks families in France who deal with 24hour media onslaught coverage and deepest blessings and prays and old saying unless you been in these situation you never know.

Hope the French Foreign Legion or police authorities get these hit teams 'Terrorists 'before they kill more in France and send these scum to their maker asp. !
 
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No the french are the wettest liberals in europe, human rights and all that.
The french will punish them by only allowing alah to give them 5 virgins each.
 
Now the version of Islam I understand the most is right here in Canada where we all watch Little Mosque on the Prarie, which is hilarious, and where one rich dude managed to ship a Mosque all the way up through northern waters from inland up to the arctic so all the dudes from North Africa who are working crazy jobs for big money to send back home to their fam have a place to pray in that wasn't a storage shed. This video below (if it connects) is by Zarqa Nawaz, the same woman responsible for Little Mosque on the Prarie.
Clip from Me and the Mosque — Critical Commons
In this full movie she examines life growing up in the Mosque as a young Canadian kid on the praries. It was a cool place where families gathered and shared meals together. Then after many years some new Imams showed up and created separate spaces for the women to pray in, and started to create old school patriarchal division. In the movie you see just how dynamic, modern and integrated into Canadian society Isalm is. We currently have this absolutely amazing Islamic Museum that hit Toronto region Aga Khan Museum with some of the most amazing pieces of Islamic art - can't wait to go. The science centre exhibit I saw two years ago of their early technological marvels was simply astounding.
2014-09-23-toronto-aga-khan-islamic-art-museum.jpg

Isalm can modernize quite nicely and that's the trajectory I see, but it'll be a long time coming so long as poverty and patriarchy continue to dominate in regions that are still tribal and old school. Constant western interference and our encouraging of the more radical leaders with American weapons and regional control hasn't help things at all either. There is an inherent beauty and intellect in Islamic culture that we forget about I think sometimes.
 
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And now one of the non-brothers is reported to have been killed.

A dropped I.D. at the scene ? sort of sounds like the passport found in the 9-11 debris
 
I'm now predicting you will be able to google charlie hebdo + false flag and come up with hits before this day is done.

Shades of Libyan embassy attack and that anti-islamic movie that caused it.
 
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blowfish said:
Burnt State ,
Load cobblers and can't keep blaming the West for all their problems look at the leaders of thier communities?
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Not sure which part you are calling nonsense on but what I said was that the west propping up extremist leaders "hasn't helped things" and in fact it has only upset the balances and natural progressions of Middle Eastern politics instead of letting the wealthy oil barons sorting out the mess on their own doorstep. Iraq would not be a bloodbath if it were not for falsified reasons used to wage war in the area, stimulating sectarian violence, not to mention all the free training and weapons merchandise that was 'donated' in various ways.

However, what I do place more blame on is the poverty and patriarchal extremism. But if that was left to its own devices perhaps we would not have so many young men eager to join radical environments that has lead to even more radicalization of westen raised youth, both Muslim and the non-Muslim converts. We have invited violence to our streets I think with our constant insolvement in the affairs of others. Still that role might be only what lights the fuse, while the powderkeg really is the insistence of an extremist ideology. I wonder how strong that would resonate if they did not have such looming scapegoats as the meddling western nations. All bombs on middle eastern civilians only encourages hatred and more violence globally.
 
mike said:
And its true the OT is filled with just as much violence and filth as the koran is.
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What do you think would have been the trajectory of Christainity if the loving and forgiving New Testmant came before the wrathful and guilt laden Old Testament? Would there be two violent patriarchal relics of religion circling each other with much more vim and vigor than now?
 
What do you do when you are living in abject poverty and you are offered meals, a bed, and an Islamic education? Then you are taught to hate the Western culture. If you solve that problem you might see some peace but I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
That is a factor especially with those living in Afghanistan Pakistan and other places but as was apparently the case yesterday a number of attacks have come from people that don't quite fit that model.In other words western ideologues that go over there and bring back the jihad with them. Sure these people probably weren't living the highlife but I'd bet generally speaking they weren't facing many obstacles that many of us don't have to deal with. We have many people in this country (U.S.) that live in reservations that probably go through much worse.
 
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