Charlie Hebdo attacks

[Wade]

I think a distinction should be made between those who live in harsh conditions because they have no other choice and those that willingly put themselves in harms way and take out their frustrations on people who are going about living their lives trying to make a go of it and contributing to society not taking away from it.

 

[Wade]

Poor taste, but no rationale for mass death.

Yeah, while i live for satire & humor I'm no big fan of this type of scatlogical little boy humor but I'm not really offended as much as I feel it's too easy...too cheap. I've probably "gone there" in the past myself but in the end didn't really feel good about it. If You have to have to resort to this type of humor to get laughs or be satirical, you ain't trying very hard regardless if you are egalitarian in your targets.

 

[boomerang]

The right to lampoon and satire, tasteless though it may be, is probably one of the most accurate barometers of free speech. It's a very tricky sword to handle and cuts many ways, and exceptions must always be made. But truly mature and well grounded societies tend to have a high tolerance for this kind of thing. Because they understand the difference between the "territory and the map."

 

[Charlie Prime]

I'm now predicting you will be able to google charlie hebdo + false flag and come up with hits before this day is done.

99% of terror attacks are orchestrated by governments upon their own citizens. The purpose of such attacks is to terrorize the public into accepting more police state government. Works great.

I won't dig into the minutia of this "Charlie Hebdo" attack. After you know how these things are set up and executed, it's a repetitive waste of time to keep combing over each one.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

99% of terror attacks are orchestrated by governments upon their own citizens. The purpose of such attacks is to terrorize the public into accepting more police state government. Works great.

I won't dig into the minutia of this "Charlie Hebdo" attack. After you know how these things are set up and executed, it's a repetitive waste of time to keep combing over each one.

Sorry, but I refuse to believe that every single act of terrorism includes government collusion.

 

[DaveM]

I would never say all these attacks are government backed but history is littered with false flag operations. You only have to look at ISIS and see that the US government backed this group and know we help supplied a ruthless bunch of terrorists.

 

[manxman]

Home grown or imported and indoctrinated doesnt matter, multiculturism doesnt work.
Now i think it could have at one point, but saturation ruined it, with the british commonwealth and immigration, the brits didnt like it one bit, and you saw racism was ingrained.
nobody saw any harm in calling a blackman a coon as i was growing up, not around me.
not in an in my face kind of way because there were no black people here, i was around 12 before i saw a real blackman, but on the tv, you had it all alf garnet, black and white minstral show, the whole shebang.

What changed towards those immigrants was they integrated, learned the language, wore the clothes, earned their place in the community, it took 30yrs for that mind, they didnt ghetto-ise, that came later with mass immigration of many more differing cultures.
i think over the next decade some western countries are going to go pop.

 

[manxman]

Sorry, but I refuse to believe that every single act of terrorism includes government collusion.

He didnt say every single act of terrorism includes government collusion, he said 99%.

 

[Charlie Prime]

Sorry, but I refuse to believe that every single act of terrorism includes government collusion.

Like I said, there are a few genuine attacks, 1%.

I'm re-reading an old Stephen King book called Firestarter published in 1980. In one passage in that book a CIA agent stops a Mailman and seizes his mail. The Mailman was horrified and had a fight with his supervisor protesting it.

Today notions that the government shouldn't spy on people's private correspondence seem quaint.

 

[stonehart]

This image is allegedly one of the ones that was published in Charlie Hebdo that infuriated the terrorists. It came across on my reddit feed and is nsfw. Warning: do not click if you are easily offended. I believe it translates to "Muhammed, a star is born."

http://i.imgur.com/W6l1V4q.jpg

Yes the Religion of Peace strikes again.

Scum.

 

[mike]

This image is allegedly one of the ones that was published in Charlie Hebdo that infuriated the terrorists. It came across on my reddit feed and is nsfw. Warning: do not click if you are easily offended. I believe it translates to "Muhammed, a star is born."

http://i.imgur.com/W6l1V4q.jpg

We all have our sacred cows.

No Australian or New Zealand newspaper would print a cartoon showing our cultural icons being mocked.

You wont ever see a cartoon depicting say our ANZAC's trousers down, bums up, nuts dangling in the wind.

But heres the rub, If Charlie Hebdo had done so, we would have been outraged, but that would have been the extent of our reaction.

No Australian would burst into their offices and gun 12 ppl down in cold blood.

Its OK to be offended, outraged even. whats not OK is to react with violence like this.

We get taught the sticks and stones mantra as kids, thats life. Something will always be offending someone somewhere.

But where we are taught that offense, that name calling and other purely mental insults should be shrugged off, Islam teaches it must be dealt with in harsh physical retribution.

And again, just as christians truly believe that the way to the kingdom of heaven is via JC, Are 100 percent comitted to this as the way to behave, so too do moslems have their own holy conviction, via the example Mo sets them

Mohammed used the customary morality of war. Asma, a Medinese poetess, having attacked him in her rhymes, Omeir, a blind Moslem, made his way into her room, and plunged his sword so fervently into the sleeping woman's breast that it affixed her to the couch. In the mosque the next morning Mohammed asked Omeir, "Hast thou slain Asma?" "Yes," answered Omeir, "is there cause for apprehension?" "None," said the Prophet, "a couple of goats will hardly knock their heads together for it."
Afak, a centenarian convert to Judaism, composed a satire on the Prophet, and was slain as he slept in his courtyard. A third Medinese poet, Kab ibn al-Ashraf, son of a Jewess, abandoned Islam when Mohammed turned against the Jews; he wrote verses prodding the Quraish to avenge their defeat, and enraged the Moslems by addressing love sonnets to their wives in premature troubadour style. "Who will ease me of this man?" asked Mohammed. That evening the poet's severed head was laid at the Prophet's feet. In the Moslem view these executions were a legitimate defense against treason; Mohammed was the head of a state, and had full authority to condemn.

Ive seen facebook link after facebook link this week from moslems who say what happened was justified, that they got what was coming to them for mocking islam and their prophet. And while i dont doubt there are many moslems who deplore this act. I truly believe those who in private think CH got what was coming to them is the majority pov

 

[stonehart]

We all have our sacred cows.

No Australian or New Zealand newspaper would print a cartoon showing our cultural icons being mocked.

You wont ever see a cartoon depicting say our ANZAC's trousers down, bums up, nuts dangling in the wind.

But heres the rub, If Charlie Hebdo had done so, we would have been outraged, but that would have been the extent of our reaction.

No Australian would burst into their offices and gun 12 ppl down in cold blood.

Its OK to be offended, outraged even. whats not OK is to react with violence like this.

We get taught the sticks and stones mantra as kids, thats life. Something will always be offending someone somewhere.

But where we are taught that offense, that name calling and other purely mental insults should be shrugged off, Islam teaches it must be dealt with in harsh physical retribution.

And again, just as christians truly believe that the way to the kingdom of heaven is via JC, Are 100 percent comitted to this as the way to behave, so too do moslems have their own holy conviction, via the example Mo sets them

Mohammed used the customary morality of war. Asma, a Medinese poetess, having attacked him in her rhymes, Omeir, a blind Moslem, made his way into her room, and plunged his sword so fervently into the sleeping woman's breast that it affixed her to the couch. In the mosque the next morning Mohammed asked Omeir, "Hast thou slain Asma?" "Yes," answered Omeir, "is there cause for apprehension?" "None," said the Prophet, "a couple of goats will hardly knock their heads together for it."
Afak, a centenarian convert to Judaism, composed a satire on the Prophet, and was slain as he slept in his courtyard. A third Medinese poet, Kab ibn al-Ashraf, son of a Jewess, abandoned Islam when Mohammed turned against the Jews; he wrote verses prodding the Quraish to avenge their defeat, and enraged the Moslems by addressing love sonnets to their wives in premature troubadour style. "Who will ease me of this man?" asked Mohammed. That evening the poet's severed head was laid at the Prophet's feet. In the Moslem view these executions were a legitimate defense against treason; Mohammed was the head of a state, and had full authority to condemn.

Ive seen facebook link after facebook link this week from moslems who say what happened was justified, that they got what was coming to them for mocking islam and their prophet. And while i dont doubt there are many moslems who deplore this act. I truly believe those who in private think CH got what was coming to them is the majority pov

Very good post Mike.

For some time now I have been following the mood of many western people on the social and political forums in regard to Islam and the mood is grim people (I observe I don't interact).
In short the most disturbing is the mood of the youth of Europe and they are frankly pissed. The Youth movements in Europe are getting bigger and stronger and frighteningly 'National Socialist' but I guess that is the swing of the pendulum and the youth feel that they are being sidelined while a foreign non integrating group (Islam) get treated better and given more support. Truth or not that is how they feel and as these movements get stronger and begin to find a common unity all it will take is for a charismatic leader to step up.

right or wrong there is a backlash coming and come it will. Is this right? No. Was it avoidable? yes... Can it be stopped now? .. I doubt it.
The reason is for every act such as Charlie Hebdo we see the anger gets hotter and the pendulum pulls back a bit harder.

Ive seen facebook link after facebook link this week from moslems who say what happened was justified, that they got what was coming to them for mocking islam and their prophet. And while i dont doubt there are many moslems who deplore this act. I truly believe those who in private think CH got what was coming to them is the majority pov

I have been seeing this also and what is more the one Muslim that plays pool with us on and off, and I quote "They insulted Islam this is what must happen".

Religion of peace my ass.

 

[mike]

No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au

THE leader of Hizb ut-Tahrir Australia has described the callous killing of Charlie Hebdo staff by Parisian Islamic terrorists as a “cure”.
Ismail Alwahwah, who also attended rallies with Martin Place gunman Man Haron Monis, wrote a lengthy diatribe on the attack in which he claimed the attacks were a reaction to “daily humiliation” of Muslims and “insults to their book and prophet”.
The Bankstown man – whose organisation describe themselves as a “political party whose ideology is Islam” – headed his vile article “Commentary on Charlie Hebdo and the physical law of compression” and used scientific analogies to justify the brutal slaughter.

He said the Islamic extremists who stormed the Charlie Hebdo offices and murdered 12 people — including editors, staff, policemen and maintenance workers — were part of an explosion triggered by pressure from the west.
“Woe, time and again, to all those who point the finger at any pressure when it gets a blast from the Muslims, regardless of size......For the accusation is ready; You justify the explosion, you justify terrorism,” Alwahwah wrote.

On Sunday Hizb ut-Tahrir released a statement refusing to condemn the terrorist attacks, instead criticising the satirical French magazine, describing western leaders as criminals and warning Australians that insults to their religion would end in violence.
“It seems some in Australia are arrogantly and irresponsibly heedless of the fact that provoking and insulting a people’s core beliefs is a matter that can only end in acrimony for everyone concerned,” the statement — titled We Will Not Abandon Our Prophet — read.

The chilling words appeared on the website of the Australian branch of a global anti-democratic movement based on imposing an Islamic caliphate.
In the past they have drawn controversy for supporting sharia law and for a planned talk last year titled “Honour killings are morally justified”.
“The actions of Charlie Hebdo have been rightly criticised by many sane voices in Europe. Scores of people of faith and no faith, with the slightest concern for societal harmony, have expressed their disapproval of the deliberate insult and provocation of a people’s core beliefs, warning that such actions will generate responses that are undesirable to communal harmony

 

[stonehart]

No Cookies | dailytelegraph.com.au

THE leader of Hizb ut-Tahrir Australia has described the callous killing of Charlie Hebdo staff by Parisian Islamic terrorists as a “cure”.
Ismail Alwahwah, who also attended rallies with Martin Place gunman Man Haron Monis, wrote a lengthy diatribe on the attack in which he claimed the attacks were a reaction to “daily humiliation” of Muslims and “insults to their book and prophet”.
The Bankstown man – whose organisation describe themselves as a “political party whose ideology is Islam” – headed his vile article “Commentary on Charlie Hebdo and the physical law of compression” and used scientific analogies to justify the brutal slaughter.

He said the Islamic extremists who stormed the Charlie Hebdo offices and murdered 12 people — including editors, staff, policemen and maintenance workers — were part of an explosion triggered by pressure from the west.
“Woe, time and again, to all those who point the finger at any pressure when it gets a blast from the Muslims, regardless of size......For the accusation is ready; You justify the explosion, you justify terrorism,” Alwahwah wrote.

On Sunday Hizb ut-Tahrir released a statement refusing to condemn the terrorist attacks, instead criticising the satirical French magazine, describing western leaders as criminals and warning Australians that insults to their religion would end in violence.
“It seems some in Australia are arrogantly and irresponsibly heedless of the fact that provoking and insulting a people’s core beliefs is a matter that can only end in acrimony for everyone concerned,” the statement — titled We Will Not Abandon Our Prophet — read.

The chilling words appeared on the website of the Australian branch of a global anti-democratic movement based on imposing an Islamic caliphate.
In the past they have drawn controversy for supporting sharia law and for a planned talk last year titled “Honour killings are morally justified”.
“The actions of Charlie Hebdo have been rightly criticised by many sane voices in Europe. Scores of people of faith and no faith, with the slightest concern for societal harmony, have expressed their disapproval of the deliberate insult and provocation of a people’s core beliefs, warning that such actions will generate responses that are undesirable to communal harmony

Guess I have to be killed now

 

[mike]

This sentiment is not an isolated one within the islamic community. the idea that it is the worldview of isolated extremists is ignorant.

Here's the problem

Ask a westerner "what is islam" and the answer will most likely be "a religion"

And at this level all seems pretty benign, The next logical step is to compare it to our own experience of "religion" and again the conclusion that barring a few cosmetic differences they are the same. Both build places of worship, its adherants pray to a monotheistic creator god.

On the surface they seem the same.....

But the devil is in the detail.

Dig deeper and you find they are worlds apart. Ive already posted the difference in social evolution between the two examples, one has morphed from a vengeful bloodthirsty narrative to one of peace and love thy neighbour. The other started out preaching tolerance but its narrative has morphed to one of intolerance and anger.

Compare

Offend a christian and he/she is "obligated" to forgive you. Offend a Moslem and they are obligated to kill you.
Sure there are many many examples on both sides where that obligation codified in the respective texts are ignored. Plenty of christians wont forgive you if you offend them, and plenty of moslems wont kill you if you offend them (at least here in the west, in islamic countrys the obligation is met more often than not)

But that doesnt change the reality, that codified into the respective texts is the obligation to forgive in one case, to kill in the other.
You can google image "behead those who insult islam" for examples

Westerners simply dont know enough about Islam at the detailed level to be able to understand the problem

Another example is "religion of peace" Sounds good doesnt it ?

But what most dont know is this phrase refers to a specific koranic prophecy, that the world will one day have world peace (and justice).
But its conditional, it is prophesised to happen when Islam has been taken to every corner of the world, when every single man woman and child has been converted to islam (or killed if they wont)

According to Islam there will be an era in which justice, plenty, abundance, well-being, security, peace, and brotherhood will prevail among humanity, and one in which people will experience love, self-sacrifice, tolerance, compassion, mercy, and loyalty. Prophet Muhammad says that this blessed period will be experienced through the mediation of the Mahdi, who will come in the end times to save the world from chaos, injustice, and moral collapse. He will eradicate godless ideologies and bring an end to the prevailing injustice. Moreover, he will make religion like it was in the days of Prophet Muhammad, cause the Qur'an's moral teachings to prevail among humanity, and establish peace and well-being throughout the world.[7]

Islam and World Peace

 

[stonehart]

This sentiment is not an isolated one within the islamic community. the idea that it is the worldview of isolated extremists is ignorant.

Here's the problem

Ask a westerner "what is islam" and the answer will most likely be "a religion"

And at this level all seems pretty benign, The next logical step is to compare it to our own expwerience of "religion" and again the conclusion that barring a few cosmetic differences they are the same. Both build places of worship, its adherants pray to a monotheistic creator god.

On the surface they seem the same.....

But the devil is in the detail.

Dig deeper and you find they are worlds apart. Ive already posted the difference in social evolution between the two examples, one has morphed from a vengeful bloodthirsty narrative to one of peace and love thy neighbour. The other started out preaching tolerance but its narrative has morphed to one of intolerance and anger.

Compare

Offend a christian and he/she is "obligated" to forgive you. Offend a Moslem and they are obligated to kill you.
Sure there are many many examples on both sides where that obligation codified in the respective texts are ignored. Plenty of christians wont forgive you if you offend them, and plenty of moslems wont kill you if you offend them (at least here in the west, in islamic countrys the obligation is met more often than not)

But that doesnt change the reality, that codified into the respective texts is the obligation to forgive in one case, to kill in the other.
You can google image "behead those who insult islam" for examples

Westerners simply dont know enough about Islam at the detailed level to be able to understand the problem

Another example is "religion of peace" Sounds good doesnt it ?

But what most dont know is this phrase refers to a specific koranic prophecy, that the world will one day have world peace (and justice).
But its conditional, it is prophesised to happen when Islam has been taken to every corner of the world, when every single man woman and child has been converted to islam (or killed if they wont)



Islam and World Peace

Bloody good post Mike but sorry you have to be beheaded now because you implied an insult to Islam.

 

[mike]

Excellent video that makes the very same point westerners have no idea about what Islam really is

Memri Films

 

[mike]

And where the west is open and accepting of Islam, lets look at how they recipricate ?

Saudi Arabia allows Christians to enter the country as foreign workers for temporary work, but does not allow them to practice their faith openly. Because of that Christians generally only worship in secret within private homes.[3] Items and articles belonging to religions other than Islam are prohibited.[3] These include Bibles, crucifixes, statues, carvings, items with religious symbols, and others.[3]
The Saudi Arabian Mutaween (Arabic: مطوعين), or Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and the Prevention of Vice (i.e., the religious police) prohibits the practice of any religion other than Islam.[3] Conversion of a Muslim to another religion is considered apostasy,[3] a crime punishable by death if the accused does not recant.[3] The Government does not permit non-Muslim clergy to enter the country for the purpose of conducting religious services.[3]
International Christian Concern (ICC) protested what it reported as the 2001 detention of 11 Christians in Saudi Arabia, for practicing their religion in their homes.[4] In June 2004, ICC reported on what it termed a "pogrom-like" crackdown by Saudi police on Christians after media reports of Quran desecration in Guantanamo Bay.[5]
Christians and other non-Muslims are prohibited from entering the cities of Mecca and Medina, Islam's holiest cities.[3] Proselytizing by non-Muslims, including the distribution of non-Muslim religious materials such as Bibles, is illegal. The country has just recently passed a law recommending the death penalty for anyone caught carrying or smuggling a bible into the country. [6][7]

 

[mike]

Can Islam become more moderate ?

Could an Islamic “Reformation” pacify Islam?
As should be plain to anyone who has examined the Islamic sources, to take the violence out of Islam would require it to jettison two things: the Quran as the word of Allah and Muhammad as Allah’s prophet. In other words, to pacify Islam would require its transformation into something that it is not. The Western Christian Reformation, that is often used as an example, was an attempt (successful or not) to recover the essence of Christianity, namely, the example and teachings of Christ and the Apostles. Trying to get back to the example of Muhammad would have very different consequences. Indeed, one may say that Islam is today going through its “Reformation” with the increasing jihadist activity around the globe. Today, Muslims of the Salafi (“early generations”) school are doing exactly that in focusing on the life of Muhammad and his early successors. These reformers are known to their detractors by the derogative term Wahhabi. Drawing their inspiration from Muhammad and the Quran, they are invariably disposed to violence. The unhappy fact is that Islam today is what it has been fourteen centuries: violent, intolerant, and expansionary. It is folly to think that we, in the course of a few years or decades, are going to be able to change the basic world outlook of a foreign civilization. Islam’s violent nature must be accepted as given; only then will we be able to come up with appropriate policy responses that can improve our chances of survival.

Drawing their inspiration from Muhammad and the Quran, they are invariably disposed to violence

Islam 101

This guy tried it........

Afghan demonstrators demand death penalty for ‘Koran abuse’ | Doctor Bulldog & Ronin

The abuse in question was an attempt to rewire the koran and change it from a by the numbers demand for violent repression and world domination into something less than that.
If Islam can be turned from the most vile, racist and oppressive ideology on the planet, someone will have to rewrite the koran. It is hard to reinterpret the hate filled rants in that evil book. Changing it will not be easy. When the role model of your religion is based upon the teachings and practices of a deranged psychotic pedophile anything you do is an improvement.
By protesting and demanding death, the minions of Mohammed have once again shown real change is needed.

Sun Nov 11, AFP
More than 1,000 university students demonstrated in eastern Afghanistan Sunday to demand the death penalty for an official accused of insulting the Koran, police and witnesses said.
The attorney general’s spokesman, former journalist Mohammad Ghaws Zalmai, was arrested at the Pakistan border a week ago trying to flee after being accused of misinterpreting the Muslim holy book in a new translation.
“Death to Ghaws Zalmai!” shouted the angry mob in the eastern town of Jalalabad, an AFP reporter in the crowd said. “We want him hanged!”
“He has insulted our religion and must be killed,” the group said.

More than a 1000 uni students howling for his death...... But of course they must just be minority extremists

 

[stonehart]

Can Islam become more moderate ?



Islam 101

This guy tried it........

Afghan demonstrators demand death penalty for ‘Koran abuse’ | Doctor Bulldog & Ronin

The abuse in question was an attempt to rewire the koran and change it from a by the numbers demand for violent repression and world domination into something less than that.
If Islam can be turned from the most vile, racist and oppressive ideology on the planet, someone will have to rewrite the koran. It is hard to reinterpret the hate filled rants in that evil book. Changing it will not be easy. When the role model of your religion is based upon the teachings and practices of a deranged psychotic pedophile anything you do is an improvement.
By protesting and demanding death, the minions of Mohammed have once again shown real change is needed.
Sun Nov 11, AFP
More than 1,000 university students demonstrated in eastern Afghanistan Sunday to demand the death penalty for an official accused of insulting the Koran, police and witnesses said.
The attorney general’s spokesman, former journalist Mohammad Ghaws Zalmai, was arrested at the Pakistan border a week ago trying to flee after being accused of misinterpreting the Muslim holy book in a new translation.
“Death to Ghaws Zalmai!” shouted the angry mob in the eastern town of Jalalabad, an AFP reporter in the crowd said. “We want him hanged!”
“He has insulted our religion and must be killed,” the group said.

More than a 1000 uni students howling for his death...... But of course they must just be minority extremists

Hell no Islam can not reform like Christianity did, I dread to think what it would become.. oh hang on Isis is a good example.
No Islam is unable to reform in this way because at the end of the day for it to do so It may as well become Christianity or Judaism.