Comment about C2C

[hopeful skeptic]

Speaking of mediocrity, Coast to Coast is generally a waste of time. If Paul Kimball managed to make it through the intellectual fog over there then that's great but that's less a point in its favor and more a matter of odds. Coast to Coast is bound to have some guests who aren't kooks and, I'm guessing, that just happened to be such a night.

Yep. I enjoy listening to Kimball, Stanton Friedman and some of the other researchers for whom I have respect. When they don't know, they don't know, and they generally don't base their conclusions on speculation without evidence to back it up.

That so many idiots make their way on to C2C should worry every thinking person, since that seems to be what the C2C audience wants to hear. They wouldn't feature those guests if they didn't garner interest.

I would argue that the hosts of Coast to Coast aren't that bright (see the Rosetta Stone story I mentioned on another thread) and therefore aren't capable of putting guests through the paces that Gene and David usually do. Note that I said usually. I'm aware of recent complaints.

George Noory is either intellectually lazy, unscrupulous or obtuse. There is no other option that excuses the quality of his discourse. The man clearly does none of his own research. As for his mental faculties, we're talking about a fellow who "wrote" a book (William did the real writing) about thinking things into existence. Hell, I can get that kind of nonsense from Robert Tilton and Jim Bakker, and save my soul to boot.

I have philisophical differences with the hosts, and get exasperated when they apply skepticism so unevenly, but I admire their willingness to ask questions that no one else will ask. If the choice is between complete credulity and only some skepticism, I'll take something over nothing any day of the week.

I generally don't listen to any "skeptical" podcasts - in fact, I subscribe to only one, "Skeptoid," because it's short, sweet and covers a wide range of pop culture topics. Most skeptical podcasts are preaching to the choir, and far too many of them display bad critical thought. I enjoy The Paracast, even though I get frustrated at times, because the hosts are at least trying, and are speaking to an audience that desperately needs a dose of critical thinking.

One of the problems with that approach is that it produces college students who, as a friend of mine who teaches college here in the city learned, begin book reports with atrocities like "Firstable, The Great Gatsby is about a drink called prohibition. . ."

She was told by the college administrators not to correct any of that.

That is one of the funniest damned things - and saddest damned things - I have ever heard. When I was tutoring English students in college, I was told by the advisor of the tutoring program not to correct any student's spelling, grammar or punctuation. Each student has his own unique "voice," and no one wanted to stifle it.

Good God.

 

[hopeful skeptic]

Royce isn't a believer.

I didn't mean to say he accepts everything paranormal. He is interested in UFOs, and UFOs are now - unfortunately - considered paranormal. I should have been more clear. Mea culpa.

 

[Recon]

Best of all, no anti-Semites and Holocaust deniers, like a certain other late night radio show.

Paul

** this will piss some people off **
Why not have Holocuast deniers on C2C... If they are going to let every other crack pot on.

The thing that pisses me off... is that you can be jailed for voicing your opinion on the Holocuast in many countries. Does this not bother anyone else.

I before you guys all call me an anti-semite. I DO believe the holocaust happened...

 

[CapnG]

Does this not bother anyone else?

It bothers me. So does the anti-defimation league and any other "specialist" legal action group. The idea of setting up organizations that can "play favourites" with the law sickens me.

 

[interestedINitall]

*sigh*

Typical

 

[Recon]

*sigh*

Typical

ya typical, that only ONE event in the history of man can't be questioned...
We either ban everything or we ban nothing.

 

[DBTrek]

ya typical, that only ONE event in the history of man can't be questioned...
We either ban everything or we ban nothing.

What are you talking about? Obviously it has been questioned since you're complaining right now about C2C not airing Holocaust deniers. If it hadn't been questioned there's be no deniers to put on the air.

Furthermore, how does one radio show in America not airing those people constitute a ban?

-DBTrek

 

[hopeful skeptic]

What are you talking about? Obviously it has been questioned since you're complaining right now about C2C not airing Holocaust deniers. If it hadn't been questioned there's be no deniers to put on the air.

Furthermore, how does one radio show in America not airing those people constitute a ban?

-DBTrek

Yep. Last I saw, Iran welcomed a full symposium of Holocaust-deniers. Nice fellow, that Ahmadinejad. Can't wait until he has a nuke.

All anyone is asking is that the Holocaust deniers - and the hosts who promote them - weigh
their claims in the light of evidence. If they did that, this "debate" (it really isn't one, for thinking people) would be ended.

 

[DBTrek]

I think they'd also make very brief and uninteresting guests.

Host: "Today we have on the show Mr. Jones, a man who claims the Holocaust never happened. Tell us about your theory Mr. Jones"

Guest: "The holocaust didn't happen. It was all allied propoganda."

H: "What about the concentration camps."

G: "Nope, they're not real. All fake."

H: "And the millions of dead?"

G: "Also fake."

H: "The film footage of the dead at the camps?"

G: "Fake"

H: "The supporting documents seized from the Third Reich?"

G: "All fake"

Seriously, where are you going to go with that? Boooooooring.

-DBTrek

 

[David Biedny]

I vote that we ban Jeff Rense's hair.

Man, that thing should get together with Gary Spivey's mop, and toss in Trump's rug, and you'd have the AntiChrist of Hair.

My new band: AntiChrist of Hair.

dB

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I vote that we ban Jeff Rense's hair.

Man, that thing should get together with Gary Spivey's mop, and toss in Trump's rug, and you'd have the AntiChrist of Hair.

My new band: AntiChrist of Hair.

dB

I had a dream about Jeff Rense's hair today. I am not joking, I swear. Or I should say wig.

Trump claims his hair is real. Seen it on the Apprentice Doesn't look like it though.

 

[CapnG]

My new band: AntiChrist of Hair.

dB

Not enough zing. "Hairy antichrist" maybe?

 

[Aspie]

Talking about rugs. What about Dr. Turi? one of C2C's golden balls

 

[hopeful skeptic]

I vote that we ban Jeff Rense's hair.

Man, that thing should get together with Gary Spivey's mop, and toss in Trump's rug, and you'd have the AntiChrist of Hair.

My new band: AntiChrist of Hair.

dB

There's a New York Times (If I recall correctly) correspondent who frequents CNN, and his hair looks like a cross between the late painter Bob Ross and famed paleontologist Bob Bakker. Absolutely astonishing.

For some unknown reason, I've always coveted long hair, and have tried to grow it out, but I can't get past summer. It just gets too hot.

 

[BrandonD]

Actually, it's pretty easy to refute, since C2C seldom features credentialled, published, peer-reviewed scientists who have hard data to back up their opinions. A radio show that refers to Dick Hoagland as "science advisor" is setting itself up for pillory. A show that gives credibility to Alex Jones, Sean David Morton, and Sylvia Browne is ripe for discredit.

Actually, your argument is not referring to my statement. I will state it again.

There IS in fact a consensual reality, a socially agreed-upon set of criteria for what is considered "real" in this world (ie; the earth contains no hollow cavities, human civilization began around 3500BC, etc). Almost 100% of our media does not discuss anything outside of what is considered our consensual reality. And in the rare instance that it's discussed, it is always with a hint of humor or derision (as in, "this subject attracts viewers, but don't take it seriously folks").

A media program that discusses (without ridicule) anything outside of the consensual reality simply increases the probability that the "brainwashed" masses will consider that there might be facets of our reality that are outside of the consensual reality being fed to them.

I am saying nothing more than this. I'm NOT endorsing C2C, I'm not endorsing its host, I'm not endorsing it's guests. In fact, I'm in total agreement with the criticisms of the show you and the other guys are saying. All this flexing of your debate muscles just to preach to the choir, which pretty much illustrates the point I'm trying to get at.

Perhaps I judged too quickly with my inital assumption that The Paracast program has a stance of being "against" C2C. If that's not the case then I certainly take it back.

I brought the subject up because I've noticed a pattern with movements or groups that are small and/or struggling, and this pattern appears to repeat itself in the "ufo investigation" field. All this energy is wasted in silly "infighting" and "claiming territory", which does nothing for whatever the group or movement is trying to accomplish.

What I was essentially trying to say was "C2C is what it is, and it's raking in the listeners so the situation is probably not going to change. Because of this, the most productive course of action is to just do your own thing and let C2C do its own thing."

I'm just a guy and no one of consequence in the ufo field, so maybe it's not my place to make these criticisms. I just wanted to clarify my point before I dropped the subject.

 

[interestedINitall]

He thinks we've been "flexing." That deserves a chuckle at the very least.



So, Brandon, if an epidemic were wiping out a village and a "doctor" were to come to town selling snake oil and the occasional vitamin C tablet would you be grateful that the villagers were receiving the appearance of help? Would you criticize anyone who pointed out the "doctor's" ineptitude?

Are you all about the gesture, regardless of how hollow it may be?

Just asking.

 

[Recon]

I think they'd also make very brief and uninteresting guests.

Host: "Today we have on the show Mr. Jones, a man who claims the Holocaust never happened. Tell us about your theory Mr. Jones"

Guest: "The holocaust didn't happen. It was all allied propoganda."

H: "What about the concentration camps."

G: "Nope, they're not real. All fake."

H: "And the millions of dead?"

G: "Also fake."

H: "The film footage of the dead at the camps?"

G: "Fake"

H: "The supporting documents seized from the Third Reich?"

G: "All fake"

Seriously, where are you going to go with that? Boooooooring.

-DBTrek

You are obviously very uneducated about the subject.
not all holocaust deniers believe that it didn't exist, but was just over exaggerated... for propaganda reason... People don't realize how far propaganda went back then... It was essential.

** I am not saying that there is a difference between 1 dead jew and 6 million ** but I`m am saying that the number may matter, seeing it is the reason for giving them their own homeland.

THESE ARE FACTS.

U have to be ****ing insane to believe that the holocaust didn't happen. But I believe it would be a great show. Seeing as the result of the holocaust paved way to the Jews getting their own homeland, to the crisis we have now in the middle east.

AND NO, I am not saying it is the Jews fault for the Middle East crisis... Im just stating their state is. Who would be happy of another nation being created in the middle of your own? And in holy ground???

I find it BS that you spin what i have said.

I sit hear and listen, and let everyone tell me their side of the story. BE it Alien abduction, 9/11 or holocaust. This is how I am. Everyone one has the right to express their views.

 

[hopeful skeptic]

Actually, your argument is not referring to my statement. I will state it again.

You claimed The Paracast was "against" Coast to Coast, which is not true. I stated that The Paracast hasn't said anything really derogatory about C2C, but noted that I was perfectly happy to do so, and did so.

There IS in fact a consensual reality

*sigh*

No, sir, there isn't a consensual reality. There is reality, which is supported by evidence. Consensus has nothing to do with reality, or with truth. If 100 people are standing in a room and 99 of them proclaim that all bunny rabbits are blue, and only one person stands in opposition to them with demonstrable evidence at his side, he is correct and they are wrong.

a socially agreed-upon set of criteria for what is considered "real" in this world

See above point.

(ie; the earth contains no hollow cavities,

Yes, it does.

human civilization began around 3500BC, etc)

Sumerian and Chinese civilizations go back further than that. Hallstadt in Austria might have something to say on that subject, too.

Almost 100% of our media does not discuss anything outside of what is considered our consensual reality.

Now I can't disagree more on this point. Have you watched "Medium" on TV? Have you watched Larry King fawn all over Sylvia Browne, James van Praagh and John Edward? Have you ever watched the complete babble promoted by the "History" Channel and Discovery? Hell, Animal Planet gave an entire show to some deluded crackpot who believes she psychically channels dogs. DOGS!!!

I know it's comforting for C2C listeners to believe that they're listening to a real news show, and are part of a unique, special group of people with a pipeline to "hidden truths," but it just isn't so. C2C manipulates their audiences and knowingly participates in the publicizing of known frauds.

And in the rare instance that it's discussed, it is always with a hint of humor or derision (as in, "this subject attracts viewers, but don't take it seriously folks").

If only the media did treat these subjects with the derision they deserve. That would be the day.

A media program that discusses (without ridicule) anything outside of the consensual reality simply increases the probability that the "brainwashed" masses will consider that there might be facets of our reality that are outside of the consensual reality being fed to them.

I'm still awaiting your response to my first question to you: How does a reality have "facets," in the sense that the paranormal crowd means it? I hear that phrase all the time, and have no idea how one comes to that conclusion. I suspect what "facets of reality" really means is "Here's a collection of speculations completely unsupported by, and devoid of, evidence. Perhaps one of these speculations, or some of them, or a confluence of them - by logic we can't begin to justify - will lead you to your own personal 'truth.' We hope you enjoy this four-hour brain drain."

I'm NOT endorsing C2C, I'm not endorsing its host....

How can you agree with my objections to the show, yet believe C2C provides a valuable service?

Perhaps I judged too quickly with my inital assumption that The Paracast program has a stance of being "against" C2C. If that's not the case then I certainly take it back.

No problem. I don't want the hosts thinking I dislike them personally, or dislike their show, because I don't, so I defended it when I heard your accusation. I like this show. It's maddening, but I like it a lot.

I brought the subject up because I've noticed a pattern with movements or groups that are small and/or struggling, and this pattern appears to repeat itself in the "ufo investigation" field. All this energy is wasted in silly "infighting" and "claiming territory", which does nothing for whatever the group or movement is trying to accomplish.

The reason ufology is struggling is that it is out of fresh material. Without the presentation of hard evidence to buttress any of its claims, the conversation is dead. We can bat around speculations all we like, but they're not getting anyone anywhere, and won't lead to "truth." Stories, anecdotes and eyewitnesses, unsupported by objective evidence, are meaningless.

Sometimes, movements struggle because they deserve it.

What I was essentially trying to say was "C2C is what it is, and it's raking in the listeners so the situation is probably not going to change. Because of this, the most productive course of action is to just do your own thing and let C2C do its own thing."

Appeal to popularity. Just because most people think something is so, and support something, doesn't make it right or correct. And some of the latest numbers indicate C2C may be starting to struggle itself. Noory gambled quite a bit on this ridiculous clap-trap of a book, and it hasn't paid off.

I'm just a guy and no one of consequence in the ufo field, so maybe it's not my place to make these criticisms. I just wanted to clarify my point before I dropped the subject.

You're as entitled as anyone else to spout off, and you're as qualified as 99% of the UFO "researchers" I hear featured on C2C.

 

[hopeful skeptic]

You are obviously very uneducated about the subject.
not all holocaust deniers believe that it didn't exist, but was just over exaggerated... for propaganda reason... People don't realize how far propaganda went back then... It was essential.

These people provide no evidence that can stand up to the mountain of evidence that plainly demonstrates that 30 million Russians died in World War II, that 6 million Jews were exterminated in World War II, that an astonishing number of political enemies, mental defectives, cripples, etc. were killed in World War II.

** I am not saying that there is a difference between 1 dead jew and 6 million ** but I`m am saying that the number may matter, seeing it is the reason for giving them their own homeland.

It all comes back to those pesky Jews and their pesky Israel, doesn't it?

THESE ARE FACTS.

No, they aren't. It's obstinate race-baiting in the face of real evidence and a mountain of dead bodies.

U have to be ****ing insane to believe that the holocaust didn't happen. But I believe it would be a great show.

Recon, this makes no sense. You believe a holocaust happened, believe there isn't a difference between one dead Jew and 6 million, yet believe a holocaust denier makes for a great show? What?!

What is this fascination people have with wasting time on things they know are unreasonable? Is there really that much free time out there?

Seeing as the result of the holocaust paved way to the Jews getting their own homeland, to the crisis we have now in the middle east. AND NO, I am not saying it is the Jews fault for the Middle East crisis... Im just stating their state is. Who would be happy of another nation being created in the middle of your own? And in holy ground???

Speaking of not knowing history, the dream of re-establishing Israel as an independent country goes back to the collapse of the Maccabean dynasty in the 1st century. You might remember that the Bible, in some of its many candid moments, records Jesus' disciples and followers repeatedly asking him if he had come to reestablish Israel. In the modern era, efforts were made after World War I to achieve this, but the victors' rampant anti-Judaism stifled that in the bud.

As I noted above, Isreal's existence is the real issue for Holocaust deniers. "If it weren't for Israel, the Middle East would be at peace." Israel has a right to exist. Jews have the right to have one place in the world - one place - where they aren't threatened with extermination by mindless people so beset by anti-Judaism that they can't see straight.

If your problem is with Israel's existence, just be man enough to side with the Muslims, and stop hiding behind Holocaust deniers. Stop asking them to level the charges you won't man up and level yourself. Stand on your own two feet and declare that the answer to Middle East peace isn't the defeat of beheading, bombing, sniping, terrorizing Muslims but the eradication of the area's only stable democracy. Make that case.

Everyone one has the right to express their views.

No question. Even wrong ones.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

There's a New York Times (If I recall correctly) correspondent who frequents CNN, and his hair looks like a cross between the late painter Bob Ross and famed paleontologist Bob Bakker. Absolutely astonishing.

For some unknown reason, I've always coveted long hair, and have tried to grow it out, but I can't get past summer. It just gets too hot.

Hmm. Not sure who they are. Have piccies?

Pull it back in a donkey tail like me.