• NEW! LOWEST RATES EVER -- SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY THE VERY BEST PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+, eight years young! For a low subscription fee, you can download the ad-free version of The Paracast and the exclusive, member-only, After The Paracast bonus podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, the continuation of interviews that began on the main episode of The Paracast. We also offer lifetime memberships! Flash! Take advantage of our lowest rates ever! Act now! It's easier than ever to susbcribe! You can sign up right here!

    Subscribe to The Paracast Newsletter!

Consciousness and Magic

Free episodes:

Essentially, yes. Assume for the sake of argument that everyone's idea of the power of positive thinking is that everyone else be tele-transported to the planet Mars. Discounting some kind of branching multi-verse scenario, the logical contradictions seem obvious.

Good point - like the (apparent) contradictions in the idea of time travel.

There are actually 'laws' of manifestation. Thinking has intensities of magnitude.

As always in this arena, the 'answer' will be such that will displease the mechanist. Input-output. Tell me how it works and I will do it - but learn how it works only to discover it means personal transformation.

The objectivist wants the answer to be 'out there' - not relevant to the subjective state. Electricity will flow into this plug when I insert it into the outlet be I a 'good', 'evil' or indifferent person. This becomes the test of what is real and unreal. But only of a kind - at a certain level. Even that can be altered by one sufficiently advanced - but then they are not part of this universe (though that is misleading to say).

We find it hard to 'believe' that we are altering reality all the time - the 'contradictions' you are speaking of are being worked out all the time - simply not at the conscious level. To arrive at the level of conscious manifestation does not then mean an added or new 'contradiction' - merely that we are now consciously doing what we did unconsciously before.

Seems like a good topic for the Magic thread.
 
Good point - like the (apparent) contradictions in the idea of time travel.

There are actually 'laws' of manifestation. Thinking has intensities of magnitude.

As always in this arena, the 'answer' will be such that will displease the mechanist. Input-output. Tell me how it works and I will do it - but learn how it works only to discover it means personal transformation.

The objectivist wants the answer to be 'out there' - not relevant to the subjective state. Electricity will flow into this plug when I insert it into the outlet be I a 'good', 'evil' or indifferent person. This becomes the test of what is real and unreal. But only of a kind - at a certain level. Even that can be altered by one sufficiently advanced - but then they are not part of this universe (though that is misleading to say).

We find it hard to 'believe' that we are altering reality all the time - the 'contradictions' you are speaking of are being worked out all the time - simply not at the conscious level. To arrive at the level of conscious manifestation does not then mean an added or new 'contradiction' - merely that we are now consciously doing what we did unconsciously before.

Seems like a good topic for the Magic thread.

Tell me how it works and I will do it - but learn how it works only to discover it means personal transformation.

. . . thinking about how magic changes the magician in the process and as much or more than it changes anything else - sometimes it only changes you if that is all that is necessary? (path of least resistance) and those changes can be painful -

Electricity will flow into this plug when I insert it into the outlet be I a 'good', 'evil' or indifferent person. This becomes the test of what is real and unreal.

And this is the world we've shaped with magic-technology, thinking we are imposing these rules - but I think we are insensitive to the changes it is making in us.
 
I agree on all counts. Anything that hijacks the natural rewards system the brain uses to model reality in way that makes life durably meaningful must be regarded as potentially dangerous. However, problems often arise when "life", for reasons of chronic pain--both physical and emotional, or even through neurological dysfunction--fails to provide needed rewards. Here is one crack in the door.

I agree with the underscored statement, and also with the exceptions cited in the following sentence.
 
I agree with the underscored statement, and also with the exceptions cited in the following sentence.

There is at least one alternate theory that bipolar illness can be treated with low dose opiates, that many symptoms of the illness are similar to chronic pain - in my personal experience, I think that might be accurate.
 
One of those artificially dirty little secrets the "establishment" doesn't want the public to know. As if the truth about opioids weren't reason enough for caution.

I'm ill grounded in much of the literature discussed here. But to pick around the edges: I see an inherent contradiction based on human perception of cause and effect. Assuming a particular individual mindset or inner intent may change the flow of wider events, how can this be done without contradicting the individuated intents of others? This would be a kind of sum zero game. Perhaps even, a battle of wills. It seems the other option is that cause and effect is an individuated illusion.

I'm ill grounded in much of the literature discussed here.

One starting place is Liber Null by Peter J. Carroll. There are many links and references on the net and the entire text is available on archive.org. This is a basic text in chaos magick - which is a modern form of magick that claims to strip away the formalities of ceremonial magick and get to the crucial aspects of practical magic, the technology itself. It's a quick way in to what magick is and what it's used for but my caution is that in the process of throwing out the complexities and historical accretions, there may be a risk.

Huston Smith talks about how the Talmud, the rabbinical commentary on the Torah, serves to protect Judaism from fundamentalism because it questions every line in the Torah . . . it's the built in skepticism and doubt of the faith - the whole body of magical lore serves, maybe, a similar function - to provide both a path and a critical delay in the mage's development, to give pause to and certainly there is more to the Kabbalah than just magic.

Whats left in Carrol's book is an emphasis on getting things done and there is a direct acknowledgment and appeal to the egoic path. Carrol discusses using magic to tip chance in your direction, that crucial 51% and says you are not to leave it either to chance or magic alone but to do everything you can to tip things in your favor.

To me this is taking magic out of any social context of responsibility - it's a far cry from any traditional practice of magic but it is very much in line with a modern sensibility.
 
There is at least one alternate theory that bipolar illness can be treated with low dose opiates, that many symptoms of the illness are similar to chronic pain - in my personal experience, I think that might be accurate.

I have a friend who is bipolar and also afflicted with chronic phantom pain and other pain due to the loss of a leg. It would be a great help if you can provide a link to information about that low dose opiate theory. He's the husband of one of my good friends and it could make his life (and hers) a lot better if he could find treatment other than pain killers and sleep meds to get along day to day. Thanks for any info you can provide, Steve.
 
My neighbour and good frend of 14 years has been steadily dropping his narcotic dosage for severe injury based pains. It has been incredible to watch him master control over what is now quite a low dose. However, there are some specific issues that comes with his pain management and dose reduction: a general problem with needing to sleep and crash for a good chunk of the time sometimes, difficulty in transitioning his patches where sometimes doses don't kick in properly. Sometimes he feels like he's crawling out of his skin; sometimes OxyContin is a necessary friend to help him through those moments. But I would have to say that his overall quality of life and ability to manage pain through narcotics is a necessary and overall beneficial process for him. A good doctor or pain management specialist is a plus.
 
I have a friend who is bipolar and also afflicted with chronic phantom pain and other pain due to the loss of a leg. It would be a great help if you can provide a link to information about that low dose opiate theory. He's the husband of one of my good friends and it could make his life (and hers) a lot better if he could find treatment other than pain killers and sleep meds to get along day to day. Thanks for any info you can provide, Steve.

Robert T. Cochran:

The Opiate Cure: Pain and the Bipolar Spectrum: Robert T Cochran: 9781465391483: Amazon.com: Books

his ideas are controversial, and I just found this article on his recent retirement, with the possibility that the state board of health was involved:

Controversial Doctor Treating Bipolar with Opiates Throws in Towel

however, I think the information may still be useful and there are many examples where a controversial treatment may prove out or lead to better therapy

The other link worth checking out is this interview from Shrink Rap Radio (see transcript below)

Audio interview with Australian Psychologist James Alexander | Shrink Rap Radio Psychology Interviews: Exploring brain, body, mind, spirit, intuition, leadership, research, psychotherapy and more!

transcript here: http://www.shrinkrapradio.com/341.pdf


I believe you referenced EMDR in a previous post or something similar . . . this is a wide ranging discussion on treating chronic pain ... I hope it is helpful!
 
My neighbour and good frend of 14 years has been steadily dropping his narcotic dosage for severe injury based pains. It has been incredible to watch him master control over what is now quite a low dose. However, there are some specific issues that comes with his pain management and dose reduction: a general problem with needing to sleep and crash for a good chunk of the time sometimes, difficulty in transitioning his patches where sometimes doses don't kick in properly. Sometimes he feels like he's crawling out of his skin; sometimes OxyContin is a necessary friend to help him through those moments. But I would have to say that his overall quality of life and ability to manage pain through narcotics is a necessary and overall beneficial process for him. A good doctor or pain management specialist is a plus.

Shrink Rap Radio is an excellent podcast with a lot of topics relevant to things discussed here on the forum, especially if you have an interest in Jungian psychology . . . here are a couple of relevant episodes on pain and addiction:

Audio interview with Australian Psychologist James Alexander | Shrink Rap Radio Psychology Interviews: Exploring brain, body, mind, spirit, intuition, leadership, research, psychotherapy and more!
transcript: http://www.shrinkrapradio.com/341.pdf

and this one on addiction issues generally:
Audio interview with Gabor Maté, MD on Addiction | Shrink Rap Radio Psychology Interviews: Exploring brain, body, mind, spirit, intuition, leadership, research, psychotherapy and more!
transcript: http://www.shrinkrapradio.com/359.pdf

here is a list of all the shows:

All Shows | Shrink Rap Radio Psychology Interviews: Exploring brain, body, mind, spirit, intuition, leadership, research, psychotherapy and more!
 
Not magic per se but fits better here than other threads . . .

Expanding Mind - A Religion of One's Own - 01/19/14 | PRN.fm

Excellent podcast with Thomas Moore best known as the author of Care of the Soul
Thomas Moore
Thomas Moore » Blog

. . . on Expanding Mind with Erik Davis and Maja D'Aoust on Moore's book A Religion of One's Own

Erik Davis is the author of TechGnosis
Erik Davis [ TECHGNOSIS ]

This interview discusses spirit and soul, religion (Moore was a monastic at one time) footnotes as the grave-yard of a book, James Hillman, quotation as a religious act, dreams and dream work, "culture of knowingness" and space for the unknown/genuine sense of mystery, religion defined as "any creative and concrete response to the mysteries we encounter in our regular, everyday lives". the shadow, "be there, then", most soulful people being unhealthy, living in the past as a way into soul, Mr. Magoo . . .
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Maybe a cloud is not bright enough,
suggesting foggy awareness
rather than enlightenment.
Nevertheless, I’m an astrologer of clouds,
reading the heavens’ messages as they
teletype across the sky on a windy day.


From the Thomas Moore Blog.

Nice stuff, brother.
 
Maybe a cloud is not bright enough,
suggesting foggy awareness
rather than enlightenment.
Nevertheless, I’m an astrologer of clouds,
reading the heavens’ messages as they
teletype across the sky on a windy day.


From the Thomas Moore Blog.

Nice stuff, brother.

Care of the Soul is a wonderful book. The Soul of Work by David Whyte is another one that I have had since college and have read and re-read a bit at a time.
 
Care of the Soul is a wonderful book. The Soul of Work by David Whyte is another one that I have had since college and have read and re-read a bit at a time.

Actually, it's

The Heart Aroused
Poetry and Preservation of the Soul in Corporate America

 
Mysticism
A Study in the Nature and Development of Man's Spiritual Consciousness


available here in text and audio formats:
Mysticism: A Study in Nature and Development of Spiritual Consciousness - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

MP3 Files for Mysticism: A Study in Nature and Development of Spiritual Consciousness (by Evelyn Underhill) - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

Table of Contents here: Mysticism: A Study in Nature and Development of Spiritual Consciousness - Christian Classics Ethereal Library

Along with Huxley's The Perennial Philosophy, this is the best overview, definition and categorization of mysticism that I have read. Here is a good recording of the opening part of the book (selected quotes below) which defines mysticism and touches on a lot of topics found on these threads.

The Point of Departure

Mysticism: A Study in the Nature and Development of Man's Spiritual Consciousness by Evelyn Underhill: free audio download (podcast) from Listen to Genius

The most highly developed branches of the human family have in common one peculiar characteristic. They tend to produce—sporadically it is true, and often in the teeth of adverse external circumstances—a curious and definite type of personality; a type which refuses to be satisfied with that which other men call experience, and is inclined, in the words of its enemies, to “deny the world in order that it may find reality.”

. . . and it is an indirect testimony to its objective actuality, that whatever the place or period in which they have arisen, their aims, doctrines and methods have been substantially the same.
. . .

All men, at one time or another, have fallen in love with the veiled Isis whom they call Truth. With most, this has been a passing passion: they have early seen its hopelessness and turned to more practical things. But others remain all their lives the devout lovers of reality: though the manner of their love, the vision which they make to themselves of the beloved object varies enormously.
. . .

Hence, they should claim from us the same attention that we give to other explorers of countries in which we are not competent to adventure ourselves; for the mystics are the pioneers of the spiritual world, and we have no right to deny validity to their discoveries, merely because we lack the opportunity or the courage necessary to those who would prosecute such explorations for themselves.

. . .

It is the object of this book to attempt a description, and also—though this is needless for those who read that description in good faith—a justification of these experiences and the conclusions which have been drawn from them. So remote, however, are these matters from our ordinary habits of thought, that their investigation entails, in those who would attempt to understand them, a definite preparation: a purging of the intellect.
 
I have reacquainted myself with Charles Fort - a seriously fun guy. ;) And wise in many ways.

Some quotes -

“[Wise men] have tried to understand our state of being, by grasping at its stars, or its arts, or its economics. But, if there is an underlying oneness of all things, it does not matter where we begin, whether with stars, or laws of supply and demand, or frogs, or Napoleon Bonaparte. One measures a circle, beginning anywhere.” - Charles Fort, Lo!

“I sent letters of enquiry to all persons whose names were given, and received not one reply. There are several ways of explaining. One is that it is probable that persons who have experiences such as those told of in this book, receive so many "crank letters" that they answer none. Dear me — once upon a time, I enjoyed a sense of amusement and superiority toward "cranks". And now here am I, a "crank", myself. Like most writers, I have the moralist somewhere in my composition, and here I warn — take care, oh, reader, with whom you are amused, unless you enjoy laughing at yourself.” ― Charles Fort, Wild Talents

But some of us have been educated by surprises out of much that we were 'absolutely sure' of...”
Charles Fort, Lo!

"We cannot define. Nothing has ever been finally figured out, because there is nothing final to figure out
Charles Fort

“Is life worth living? Like everybody else, I have many times asked that question, usually deciding negatively, because I am most likely to ask myself whether life is worth living, at times when I am convinced it isn't. One day, in one of my frequent, and probably incurable, scientific moments, it occurred to me to find out. For a month, at the end of each day, I set down a plus sign, or a minus sign, indicating that, in my opinion, life had, or had not, been worth living, that day. At the end of the month, I totted up, and I can't say that I was altogether pleased to learn that the pluses had won the game. It is not dignified to be optimistic.” ― Charles Fort, Wild Talents

“I had used all except peach labels. I pasted the peach labels on peach cans, and then came to apricots. Well, aren't apricots peaches? And there are plums that are virtually apricots. I went on, either mischievously, or scientifically, pasting the peach labels on cans of plums, cherries, string beans, and succotash. I can't quite define my motive, because to this day it has not been decided whether I am a humourist or a scientist. I think that it was mischief, but, as we go along, there will come a more respectful recognition that also it was scientific procedure.”
Charles Fort, Wild Talents
 
Thank you, Steve, for the 'Like' above. Those three videos are little unexpected gems.

I have just come across this book - haven't read it but certainly agree with the blurb that describes it's contents. Our societal aversion to 'suffer' sadness is a very disquieting phenomenon imo. Especially given that the full spectrum of human emotions is needed for initiation and subtle research. We have such a plastic, constructed view of what constitutes 'normality' - we are living half-lives - that get made endurable through drugs, legal or otherwise.

Afraid of their sadness, afraid of being truly alive to every moment, and Magic is hectored. Who can explain it?

I offer this here because it's significant. People being unfamiliar with their feelings. Young adolescents imploding.

LINK:
TEXT: "Author with professional and personal experience: Psychotherapist Gary Greenberg’s musings on the intersection of science, politics, and ethics have graced the pages of The New Yorker , Wired , and Mother Jones. A longtime sufferer of depression, in 2007 he enrolled himself in a clinical trial for major depression (after his initial application for a minor depression trial was rejected). He wrote about his experience in a Harper’s magazine piece, which received a tremendous response from readers.

" “Am I happy enough?”: This has been a pivotal question since America’s inception. Am I not happy enough because I am depressed? is a more recent version. Greenberg shows how depression has been manufactured — not as an illness, but as an idea about our suffering, its source, and its relief. He challenges us to look at depression in a new way.

"A nation of depressives: In the twenty years since their introduction, antidepressants have become staples of our medicine chests — upwards of 30 million Americans are taking them at an annual cost of more than $10 billion. Even more important, Greenberg argues, it has become common, if not mandatory, to think of our unhappiness as a disease that can, and should, be treated by medication. Manufacturing Depression tells the story of how we got to this peculiar point in our history."
 
Last edited:
Thank you, Steve, for the 'Like' above. Those three videos are little unexpected gems.

I have just come across this book - haven't read it but certainly agree with the blurb that describes it's contents. Our societal aversion to 'suffer' sadness is a very disquieting phenomenon imo. Especially given that the full spectrum of human emotions is needed for initiation and subtle research. We have such a plastic, constructed view of what constitutes 'normality' - we are living half-lives - that get made endurable through drugs, legal or otherwise.

Afraid of their sadness, afraid of being truly alive to every moment, and Magic is hectored. Who can explain it?

I offer this here because it's significant. People being unfamiliar with their feelings. Young adolescents imploding.

LINK:
TEXT: "Author with professional and personal experience: Psychotherapist Gary Greenberg’s musings on the intersection of science, politics, and ethics have graced the pages of The New Yorker , Wired , and Mother Jones. A longtime sufferer of depression, in 2007 he enrolled himself in a clinical trial for major depression (after his initial application for a minor depression trial was rejected). He wrote about his experience in a Harper’s magazine piece, which received a tremendous response from readers.

" “Am I happy enough?”: This has been a pivotal question since America’s inception. Am I not happy enough because I am depressed? is a more recent version. Greenberg shows how depression has been manufactured — not as an illness, but as an idea about our suffering, its source, and its relief. He challenges us to look at depression in a new way.

"A nation of depressives: In the twenty years since their introduction, antidepressants have become staples of our medicine chests — upwards of 30 million Americans are taking them at an annual cost of more than $10 billion. Even more important, Greenberg argues, it has become common, if not mandatory, to think of our unhappiness as a disease that can, and should, be treated by medication. Manufacturing Depression tells the story of how we got to this peculiar point in our history."

against happiness - in praise of melancholy

Against Happiness: In Praise of Melancholy:Amazon:Books

also Burton's Anatomy of Melancholy freely available

The Anatomy of Melancholy by Robert Burton - Free Ebook




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

A good first lecture on Science, Magic and Religion (... and politics ;-) gives a good historical overview of the three -
 
Back
Top