Consciousness and Magic

[Randall]

To create is to be godlike, no? And in that process both the creator and those who behold the crelation are changed.

If we leave the "rigors of religion" out of this picture then we can appreciate how art making, meditation and mystical prayer can move us towards transformative spaces. No matter who your 'god' is the process of transformation is upon you.

What I see in the artist divine is the command over their tools and their need to bring up to the surface our deepest entanglements. They live through it so we can conceptualize it better for ourselves in the gallery hallwyas and our living rooms, and more authority to them for giving us such ritualistic practices.

Sometimes, Randal, words are flexible for the user in order to express their creative ideas. This will often conflict with literalism, something I only pay attention to for a portion of the time. It's not a problem I need to address as that can create conflict between people. But anyways, let us not tangle this thread anymore with such talk. It is what it is. Let go.

Or as my kids like to say to me often, "Don't judge."

Sorry but judgment ( as synonymous with analysis ) is crucial in identifying what is true, and as you know, I'm a truth seeker, not a mystic. I'm also sure you can appreciate that those ( including artists ) who ignore or warp the truth to suit their own personal agendas rank lower on my integrity scale.

I'll repeat again. I appreciated the spirit of your post, but why disregard the facts regarding the origin and usage of the word "imprimatur" when used in the context of the Divine? Do you recognize where the artwork in the example I posted is from, why it most probably has Divine imprimatur, and why other works don't?

I would have thought you would find it at least informative to know what the proper context of usage is. If after that you want to apply it liberally or poetically to express some inner feeling you have, that's fine with me. What artist's ego wouldn't be stroked by someone telling them that what they do is "Divinely sanctioned"?

Personally, my ego doesn't need it. I'm plenty creative without it. In fact it bothers me that anyone should think that they have some special status that grants them some kind of mystical art power, simply because their work has been sanctioned by the church or some other mystical authority, even if all that authority amounts to is their personal ego that feels somehow validated because of this kind of nonsensical rhetoric.

@smcder's comment can most certainly be seen as an expression of this particular truth. The artists and the fools can get away with their portrayals because historically they've been granted permission by the establishments responsible for issuing the imprimatur to them in the fist place. In modern society the fools ( comedians ) are notorious for poking fun at the establishment, and musical groups with a reputation as social rebels have played for Presidents. They appear to be granted some sort of immunity compared to other dissidents, as if granted some sort of "divine" immunity.

 

[smcder]

"Divine imprimatur in your vocation." Jesus, you write so well, & not just sometimes either, and in this post you're nailing something near and dear. Mystical priest poets all tap into a different vein of consciousness when experiencing excited synaptic meditations & creations. It's a good space to be if you can get there. Their prayers and wicked hymns we revisit over and over again. As the favourite film rolls by for the fourth or seventh time, maybe you've lost count how many times you have entered into this cinematic mosque church & temple, you clearly find something of yourself there.

So bless the artists who travel reluctant, thorny, recalcitrant stony roads. It's Hawthorne, Herzog and Jodorowsky, Djuna Barnes, Kathy Acker and Goya. Let's have three cheers for Emir Kusturica - even his name is a proclamation. And Man Bites Dog? Und Der Todesking? I'll never forget the first time I saw Kieslowski's Dekalog and the utter emptiness of the killing of the taxi driver...

For me film, specifically, has a double magic in its actual recreation of the illusion of reality, and it's transformative power for the viewer, who feels their own self catapulted into the ritual of cine. Gina Rowland's and Peter Falk together in Cassavetes' flicks take me into some pretty intense spaces.

Soon comes autumn & I like to watch Edward Woodward as the Fool, and the Sacrifice come freely get burned in the giant wooden effigy as the pagan island folk cheer, and sing arm in arm in the setting sun. These repetitive passion plays are good for the soul, kind of cleansing in some ways.

Thanks Burnt! Writing is a painstaking process ... sometimes I like to just let it flow.

Have you heard of the "morning pages" exercise?

Three pages first thing ... keep the pen moving and don't look back. It starts to bring interesting stuff up after a while and gets you past your internal censor. You get a little fearless too ... and watch for vivid dreams after a week or so!

It's good I think for any kind of creative endeavor - or just to clear the head. I've modified it a bit so it's more like a traditional meditation ... When a thought arises, I write it down and then return to the breath ... when the mind is quiet I just stay with the breath.

Writing the thought down slows the mind - in the process of moving the pen, the thought sometimes evaporates and I go back to the breath.

Great film references, I've got some research to do.

Casavettes is on my list and you list several more I've not heard of ... Man Bites Dog was a favorite, I haven't thought of that one in a while. You would definitely appreciate The Ninth Configuration if you haven't seen it.

 

[smcder]

@Burnt State

The Impossible Talk Podcast — Jones Cinema Arts

#5 with Eric G Wilson - they talk about gnosticism in films, especially those of David Lynch, you might find it interesting. I looked up der TodesKing .... wow ... looks horrific! I'd seen a trailer for Schramm, but never watched the film ... although I've seen some in the genre, Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer ... but my phase of liking horror films seems over, I do appreciate psychological horror ... I recently watched True Detective and thought it was excellent, primarily as a character study though - very disturbing subject matter

Have you seen Aronofsky's Pi? It just popped in my head as one you might like.

 

[smcder]

I'm hoping we can go back and discuss healing ... I'm reading Caroline Myss' book Why People Don't Heal and How They Can ... I'm familiar with mindfulness based stress reduction and Benson's early work on the relaxation response, visualization and other aspects of psychoneuroimmunology ... but I'm interested in a very broad range of experiences and practices that people may know about.

We have a local medical intuitive who is well known and regarded and runs a busy "practice". When I have time I'll describe his process ... I've been several times and he always touches on something very interesting ... today what he said coincided with a very strange dream, the likes of which I've only had one time before.

 

[Tyger]

I'm hoping we can go back and discuss healing

I've had amazing healings with Classical Homeopathy. Really remarkable.

... I'm reading Caroline Myss' book Why People Don't Heal and How They Can ... I'm familiar with mindfulness based stress reduction and Benson's early work on the relaxation response, visualization and other aspects of psychoneuroimmunology ... but I'm interested in a very broad range of experiences and practices that people may know about.

So far I've been very healthy so am not a good source but am reaching that juncture where I am bound to take notice. In the last few years I've experienced infections of one kind or another - and since I am allergic to all 'cillins' I have to take really yucky stuff that have disquieting side-effects. I would prefer to use alternative health options but this is stymied because of the politics of medicine these days. My health insurance will not pay for the Naturopathic and Homeopathic physicians I would prefer to use.

We have a local medical intuitive who is well known and regarded and runs a busy "practice". When I have time I'll describe his process ... I've been several times and he always touches on something very interesting

Would love to hear what his process is.

... today what he said coincided with a very strange dream, the likes of which I've only had one time before.

When you're ready to share, would love to hear about it.

 

[Randall]

I'm hoping we can go back and discuss healing ... I'm reading Caroline Myss' book Why People Don't Heal and How They Can ... I'm familiar with mindfulness based stress reduction and Benson's early work on the relaxation response, visualization and other aspects of psychoneuroimmunology ... but I'm interested in a very broad range of experiences and practices that people may know about.

We have a local medical intuitive who is well known and regarded and runs a busy "practice". When I have time I'll describe his process ... I've been several times and he always touches on something very interesting ... today what he said coincided with a very strange dream, the likes of which I've only had one time before.

I presume @smcder is referring to the same Caroline Myss listed as one of the top ten in this article titled, Defrauding Education – A Look at Notorious Impostors, Fakers, or Otherwise Frauds. Basically, Medical Intuitive = Quack, and if you're someone with a serious health problem, be really careful about how much of this nonsense you buy into. Here's a sampling a number of less critical viewers might be sucked in by:

 

[smcder]

Myss' book had some interesting material - Needleman's A Sense of the Cosmos has a chapter on medicine, fascinating from a historical/theoretical perspective ... Benson's work on The Relaxation Response and Jon Kabat-Zinn's MBSR are stripped down versions of meditation as traditionally practiced ... I do recommend study in traditional systems - the breadth and sophistication of traditional meditation techniques is particularly developed among the various Buddhist traditions. Christian and Islamic techniques exist as well - but are not as widely known in the West.

Accupuncture is another modality ... Pubmed and Medscape have a number of articles ...

Medscape: Medscape Access

The medical intuitive I referred to is Berry Joneshill if Rose Bud AR and can easily be Googled.

 

[smcder]

More on accupuncture and alternatives to cell doctrine:

http://www.neiltheise.com/pdfs/Theise-Menla-Complexity.pdf

And a good interview with Theise:

Expanding Mind - Complexity and Consciousness - 02/09/14 - PRN.fm - PRN.fm

No more links Tyger ... but the bit in accupuncture is worth a listen.

 

[smcder]

The intuitive gave me a date - month and year, seven years back ... I finally checked with my parents and my dad had a journal entry on that date because I made an extremely long drive that month, that correlated with the onset of a health condition as the intuitive described ... I've had some experience with cold reading - this intuitive works quickly, often before you finish answering any questions ... In one instance he started writing before I sat down and later handed me the card and the first words written were the prescribed treatment ... or he just suddenly starts talking, describes symptoms down to specifics such as side of the body and time of day, I've thought before - "yes that's exactly how I'd put it"

 

[Tyger]

The intuitive gave me a date - month and year, seven years back ... I finally checked with my parents and my dad had a journal entry on that date because I made an extremely long drive that month, that correlated with the onset of a health condition as the intuitive described ... I've had some experience with cold reading - this intuitive works quickly, often before you finish answering any questions ... In one instance he started writing before I sat down and later handed me the card and the first words written were the prescribed treatment ... or he just suddenly starts talking, describes symptoms down to specifics such as side of the body and time of day, I've thought before - "yes that's exactly how I'd put it"

Fascinating. Edgar Cayce leapt to mind - though Cayce worked from deep trance. This intuitive sounds like he is working - well, intuitively. Has he been the occasion for healing at any time? Or is it just insight?

 

[smcder]

Fascinating. Edgar Cayce leapt to mind - though Cayce worked from deep trance. This intuitive sounds like he is working - well, intuitively. Has he been the occasion for healing at any time? Or is it just insight?

Both - healing and insight.

the last time I saw him what he had to say correlated with a dream I had that morning ... I happened to jot this dream down because it was vivid and similar to a dream I had a few years back, normally I don't write my dreams down.

I've had a good track record so far dealing with pain, I turn into the pain ... meaning I put my attention directly on it instead of trying to distract myself. My meditation practice has strengthened my concentration so I'm able to stay with the pain and notice that it's not solid and it's not constant. You can find the holes in the pain and breath in those ... It also helps not to label it as "my" pain ... but just note "pain is here" and then return to the breath. This way pain becomes objective and you can move it around or set it aside, so to speak.

 

[Constance]

The intuitive gave me a date - month and year, seven years back ... I finally checked with my parents and my dad had a journal entry on that date because I made an extremely long drive that month, that correlated with the onset of a health condition as the intuitive described ... I've had some experience with cold reading - this intuitive works quickly, often before you finish answering any questions ... In one instance he started writing before I sat down and later handed me the card and the first words written were the prescribed treatment ... or he just suddenly starts talking, describes symptoms down to specifics such as side of the body and time of day, I've thought before - "yes that's exactly how I'd put it"

He sounds like the real deal. There have been a number of such intuitive diagnosticians and healers active and widely known in the last several hundred years as reported in the psychical research literature. I spent three years immersed in that literature beginning about seven years ago and was impressed with the abilities reported. There were also several cases of highly intuitive medical doctors who realized and stated that they were being guided by postmortem medical specialists on the other side. I am very glad you've found this individual, Steve.

 

[Constance]

Fascinating. Edgar Cayce leapt to mind - though Cayce worked from deep trance. This intuitive sounds like he is working - well, intuitively. Has he been the occasion for healing at any time? Or is it just insight?

From my reading, Tyger, some nontrained but psychically gifted medical diagnosticians of the 19th century (one a rural American man) also performed their accurate diagnoses of serious medical conditions while in a trance state.

 

[smcder]

Raymond Merrill Smullyan (born May 25, 1919)[1] is an American mathematician, concert pianist,logician, Taoist philosopher, and magician.

... fun and challenging ...

Is God a Taoist?

"Smullyan has written several books about Taoist philosophy, which he believes neatly solves most or all traditional philosophical problems as well as integrating mathematics, logic, and philosophy into a cohesive whole."

 

[Randall]

Raymond Merrill Smullyan (born May 25, 1919)[1] is an American mathematician, concert pianist,logician, Taoist philosopher, and magician ... fun and challenging ... Is God a Taoist?
"Smullyan has written several books about Taoist philosophy, which he believes neatly solves most or all traditional philosophical problems as well as integrating mathematics, logic, and philosophy into a cohesive whole."

But do you ( if I'm not on your ignore list ) believe Smullyan, "neatly solves most or all traditional philosophical problems as well as integrating mathematics, logic, and philosophy into a cohesive whole." I emphasize the word "neatly" because the complexity of the issues involved makes any "neat" solution unlikely, and the fact that it takes "several books" sounds self-contradictory. Perhaps we could focus on a single philosophical problem like what constitutes art objects and how he reconciles the disparity between some works of art and logic?

 

[smcder]

Oops ... The Smullyan quote is from Wikipedia - I posted the dialogue to the C&P thread too (free will) ... it's a diversion here, although he was a magician - if that ties it in. Mostly it's just clever and worth sharing.

More on topic, I have an appt with a naturopath in a couple weeks and will try to share some general impressions.

 

[Tyger]

But do you ( if I'm not on your ignore list ) believe Smullyan, "neatly solves most or all traditional philosophical problems as well as integrating mathematics, logic, and philosophy into a cohesive whole." I emphasize the word "neatly" because the complexity of the issues involved makes any "neat" solution unlikely, and the fact that it takes "several books" sounds self-contradictory. Perhaps we could focus on a single philosophical problem like what constitutes art objects and how he reconciles the disparity between some works of art and logic?

Randall, just how many times do you have to be asked to cease and desist from posting on this thread? You do not set the agenda on this thread. We are not discussing what you want to discuss. Can the lay-of-the-land be any clearer? Smcder has you on ignore and is not responding to your shout-outs. You are starting to look pathetic.

 

[Randall]

The Consciousness Science of Magic

This seems to fit right in with the theme of the thread, except for
the "Science" part, which seems largely
absent anyway.​

 

[smcder]

He sounds like the real deal. There have been a number of such intuitive diagnosticians and healers active and widely known in the last several hundred years as reported in the psychical research literature. I spent three years immersed in that literature beginning about seven years ago and was impressed with the abilities reported. There were also several cases of highly intuitive medical doctors who realized and stated that they were being guided by postmortem medical specialists on the other side. I am very glad you've found this individual, Steve.

Thank you, Constance, I'd like to hear more about your research. I'm familiar with Cayce "The Sleeping" prophet ... it seems you posted some of your research on the C and P thread if I remember.

You may remember we discussed Theise's work on that thread ... his alternatives to cell doctrine is I think very wise from an "insiders" view.

Besides not being able to definitively diagnose me without a biopsy (which in this case requires removing the entire offending organ) the treatments so far have been powerful immunosuppressants with extreme fatigue and joint pain as side effects.

This motivates me to give a number of alternative approaches a try. I'm probably most interested in diet, homeopathy and herbalism as this puts the remedies more in ones on hands ... you also develop a certain intuition about your body in this process - the feel of certain medications, patterns of fatigue and pain - and I think these should match with any remedies offered, conventional or otherwise.

Binaural beats and isochronic tones are two other technologies that have been especially helpful with pain and insomnia.

 

[smcder]

@Burnt State

The Impossible Talk Podcast — Jones Cinema Arts

#5 with Eric G Wilson - they talk about gnosticism in films, especially those of David Lynch, you might find it interesting. I looked up der TodesKing .... wow ... looks horrific! I'd seen a trailer for Schramm, but never watched the film ... although I've seen some in the genre, Henry Portrait of a Serial Killer ... but my phase of liking horror films seems over, I do appreciate psychological horror ... I recently watched True Detective and thought it was excellent, primarily as a character study though - very disturbing subject matter

Have you seen Aronofsky's Pi? It just popped in my head as one you might like.

As an example of the Fool, the Holy Fool - see The Island (Ostrov) 2006

Ostrov (2006) - IMDb

The lead actor is a former Russian rock star who I understand now lives in isolation as a religious contemplative. He gives a compelling performance.

Also, I just finished Tarvosky's The Mirror ... stunning visually.

I just came across this film that's been compared to Tarvosky's work

Silent Souls - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia