Consciousness and Magic

[smcder]

Yes we should make our own rituals and our own art but the role of the Artist, like the Shaman, the Witch, the Concubine and the Seer are all ones we have consciously distanced ourselves from. The only art we can get at, outside of the art we make at home, or that our kids make, is what's squeezed in and out of a tube. Still, it's often the best we've got. I'm not too interested in the gods at all, but much more taken by the edges of human experience and art still maps that out for me - and yes, mostly through that relatively new medium on the block - cinema. I think the long take in film comes closest to the technique of mapping out human experience, both in waking life and dream.

I also have a very deep appreciation for authors whose thinking about their own life, previous artists and the how's of their writing (yes, women and men, both dong and ding, all crafty in their high skills of high strangeness) make a kind of magic out of the written word. They too, suspend time and place and immerse dear reader into an altered plane of existence. Take me, right her, right now, I say to the poem!

A note about the horse movie, like the recent more ritualistic cinema of Guy Maddin, it's on my to do list. But it's bleak, right, so I'll need to set aside time some time I don't have, as my son encourages me to stick with the Rebirth of Mothra movies. I can see why.

I think I forgot about Maddin in the film list: Careful is his best. But here's a sample if I can find it that goes along with this discussion and pulls in paranormality as just the way that things are. The Heart of the World, Archangel & Tales from Gimli Hospital are all online. Here's The Eye Like a Strange Balloon...

Are we the Walking Dead? I love zombie movies for their unapologetic despondency as they remind us of how we humans act. After screening Romero's original NOTLD on 16mm just a few a weeks ago daughter comes up to me and says, "Dad, the end that movie - the brain, it goes boom" and her fingers make that explosive gesture. "It's what we do to each other, sometimes" I say.

Haven't really talked much about theatre - how ironic. Isn't it still considered the only art form not yet dead and still vibrantly alive? Perhaps the best conscious magic is to be found here where you are born onto the stage and cry (butchering King Lear on purpose) because that's the real magic for me, just breathing. The trick is to just keep doing that.

I can assure you the gods are interested in you, "the merry May-day gods of old" and I wasn't suggesting we make our own rituals - quite the opposite.

Why those four:

Shaman Seer Concubine Witch?

Who was that concubine I seer you witch last night? Shaman tells me it's no concubine, it's your wife!

I don't know if the movie's bleak or not ... it comes in tomorrow (today) and I'll let you know -

I just finished another disc in the series Reading Shakespeare with John Barton and the RSC. Recommended!

 

[Randall]

A bit of trivia: A magician just took the 2014 million dollar prize home on America's Got Talent.

 

[smcder]

A bit of trivia: A magician just took the 2014 million dollar prize home on America's Got Talent.

The focus on this thread is another kind of magic, although the two do intersect.

 

[smcder]

@Burnt State

Yes, it is bleak ... and you'll get plenty of the long shot ... I got two hours in today and plan to finish it tomorrow. It is of course starkly beautiful.

 

[Randall]

The focus on this thread is another kind of magic, although the two do intersect.

Consciousness has perceptual and intellectual limitations, and the magician capitalizes on those limitations in order to give the illusion that magic is taking place. That takes real talent. The occult practitioner might claim that the conscious focus of the magician's will toward giving him the capacity to exceed his audience's conscious perceptual abilities is the real majik. That also takes a lot of discipline. The non-believer in the occult might reply, "That's nonsense, it just takes a lot of practise and dedication. There's nothing occult or mystical about it." Maybe they are both right. Maybe that's one place where the two kinds of belief in magic/majik intersect.

 

[smcder]

Consciousness has perceptual and intellectual limitations, and the magician capitalizes on those limitations in order to give the illusion that magic is taking place. That takes real talent. The occult practitioner might claim that the conscious focus of the magician's will toward giving him the capacity to exceed his audience's conscious perceptual abilities is the real majik. That also takes a lot of discipline. The non-believer in the occult might reply, "That's nonsense, it just takes a lot of practise and dedication. There's nothing occult or mystical about it." Maybe they are both right. Maybe that's one place where the two kinds of belief in magic/majik intersect.

What is "majik"?

The intersection I had in mind is that many stage magicians believe psi exists ... as many come to experience paranormal phenomena in the course of practicing deception.

Magicians Who Endorsed Psychic Phenomena by George P. Hansen

 

[Randall]

What is "majik"?

The intersection I had in mind is that many stage magicians believe psi exists ... as many come to experience paranormal phenomena in the course of practicing deception.

Magicians Who Endorsed Psychic Phenomena by George P. Hansen

Thanks for the link. I use magic to denote the kind of magic we associate with the stage magician ( e.g. Copperfield, Hemming, Franco ), and Majik to denote the alternative practise ( as in this post ), and those types involving belief in the occult and paranormal powers, a la Crowley. Psychic powers are a type of paranormal power, but from my readings, occult practitioners don't always invoke the paranormal. Simply focusing with intention and personal will ( force of will ), that moves one forward toward a goal are considered to be "Majik" ( at least by some ), and so it would seem to the objective observer that "determination" is a form of "majic", and in that the two do seem to intersect. On the paranormal side of things, I'm not surprised that some would believe in certain powers. I believe strange things do happen. I just don't believe that the role played by the psychics or mystics involved necessarily has anything to do with the cause.

 

[smcder]

Thanks for the link. I use magic to denote the kind of magic we associate with the stage magician ( e.g. Copperfield, Hemming, Franco ), and Majik to denote the alternative practise ( as in this post ), and those types involving belief in the occult and paranormal powers, a la Crowley. Psychic powers are a type of paranormal power, but from my readings, occult practitioners don't always invoke the paranormal. Simply focusing with intention and personal will ( force of will ), that moves one forward toward a goal are considered to be "Majik" ( at least by some ), and so it would seem to the objective observer that "determination" is a form of "majic", and in that the two do seem to intersect. On the paranormal side of things, I'm not surprised that some would believe in certain powers. I believe strange things do happen. I just don't believe that the role played by the psychics or mystics involved necessarily has anything to do with the cause.

Crowley ... Lol.


He used to be the wickedest man in the world ...

 

[Constance]

I think it was Crowley who wrote or gathered an instructional book of ancient dark magical arts that was used by a friend of mine in his youth (I met later in life when his daughter and mine attended the same school). He'd later worked as a computer engineer at the Johnson Space Center. When I knew him he was still a computer engineer, for the State of Florida, and taking care of the sacristy in the local Anglican Church on weekends. In one of our conversations he mentioned having studied black magic as a young man, using the Crowley book and manifesting an 'entity' that scared the wits out of him. He stopped that practice. He had also had ufo experiences in his younger years in Texas and than later at the Johnson facility, and was the person who confirmed for me that there was no prosaic explanation for the gigantic, brilliant light my daughter (then three and half) had pointed out to me as we passed it, hovering off the wingtip of a Delta airliner we were flying in.

 

[smcder]

I think it was Crowley who wrote or gathered an instructional book of ancient dark magical arts that was used by a friend of mine in his youth (I met later in life when his daughter and mine attended the same school). He'd later worked as a computer engineer at the Johnson Space Center. When I knew him he was still a computer engineer, for the State of Florida, and taking care of the sacristy in the local Anglican Church on weekends. In one of our conversations he mentioned having studied black magic as a young man, using the Crowley book and manifesting an 'entity' that scared the wits out of him. He stopped that practice. He had also had ufo experiences in his younger years in Texas and than later at the Johnson facility, and was the person who confirmed for me that there was no prosaic explanation for the gigantic, brilliant light my daughter (then three and half) had pointed out to me as we passed it, hovering off the wingtip of a Delta airliner we were flying in.

That sounds like Crowley, Leadbeater and Besant wrote a book on "thought-forms" too ... did he describe the experience? The idea of Tulpas or thought forms is fascinating.

You've probably seen the drawing of Crowley's "Lam" manifestation (1918) ... it's been compared to modern images of the grey:

http://post45.research.yale.edu/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/cooper.9-208x300.jpg

 

[smcder]

Archdruid John Michael Greer's essay The Blood of the Earth: The Blood of the Earth | Scarlet Imprint

John Michael Greer writes about peak oil in his weekly blog: The Archdruid Report ... he's been writing about the imminent bursting of the fracking bubble.

From a description of the book:

Magic, like peak oil, is the voice our civilisation has failed to heed. Greer argues passionately that the answers to our darkening age are to be found in the practice of magic, provided we understand what it can and cannot do. He gives a lucid explanation of how magic works and crucially, where it does not. His vision of the future covers the dangers of political thaumaturgy and the threats of new dictatorships in an increasingly unstable world. Neither does he shy away from a critique of the mind control antics of the black magicians of the advertising industry. Cautionary examples of UFO cults, mysterious assassinations and fake science are all grist for his mill. Whilst attacking the failures of scientific materialism and the empty technological utopias he does not spare the New Age.

Instead he presents a tour de force of occult philosophy covering Neoplatonism, Theurgy, Ritual magic, and thinkers as diverse as Aristotle, Giordano Bruno, Joséphin Péladan and Rudolph Steiner. He presents the highly practical mental training methods of magic for countering the tyranny of dualistic thinking.

 

[smcder]

I presume @smcder is referring to the same Caroline Myss listed as one of the top ten in this article titled, Defrauding Education – A Look at Notorious Impostors, Fakers, or Otherwise Frauds. Basically, Medical Intuitive = Quack, and if you're someone with a serious health problem, be really careful about how much of this nonsense you buy into. Here's a sampling a number of less critical viewers might be sucked in by:

​

Basically, Medical Intuitive = Quack, and if you're someone with a serious health problem, be really careful about how much of this nonsense you buy into.

I just had the medical intuitive's diagnosis confirmed by urinalysis ... on the other hand, I guess even a stopped watch saves nine ... I mean, you can kick a gift horse in the mouth but you can't make it think ... no, no ... if it barks like a duck and it ... oh, I give up! ;-)

and if you're someone with a serious health problem,

I am!

be really careful about how much of this nonsense you buy into.

I will! I will! But ... considering what the medical establishment has offered me so far ... I'm very interested in any alternatives.

P.S. I strongly recommend EVERYONE (who is smart enough) THINK FOR THEMSELVES!

 

[Randall]

"I just had the medical intuitive's diagnosis confirmed by urinalysis ..."

That doesn't mean anything without knowing the whole process, like how much information you gave he or she, or that he or she had access to; how many other possibilities the "medical intuitive" mentioned, how common the condition is in the general population and whether or not it's actually relevant to your symptoms, and whether or not he or she had any recognized medical training. But even then, without knowing all the gory details, it's still possible that complete quacks with a little statistical knowledge and experience can get right answers.

In the end, I suppose all that matters is that you get well, no matter what path you choose. And I really do hope you get well. I remember a time when physicians who recommended vitamins were branded as quacks, although that is also entirely different because it involves scientific chemistry rather than some "psychic power". I really doubt we're going to see a time when "medical intuitives" are taken seriously by science based medicine.

 

[smcder]

That doesn't mean anything without knowing the whole process, like how much information you gave he or she, or that he or she had access to; how many other possibilities the "medical intuitive" mentioned, how common the condition is in the general population and whether or not it's actually relevant to your symptoms, and whether or not he or she had any recognized medical training. But even then, without knowing all the gory details, it's still possible that complete quacks with a little statistical knowledge and experience can get right answers.

In the end, I suppose all that matters is that you get well, no matter what path you choose. And I really do hope you get well. I remember a time when physicians who recommended vitamins were branded as quacks, although that is also entirely different because it involves scientific chemistry rather than some "psychic power". I really doubt we're going to see a time when "medical intuitives" are taken seriously by science based medicine.

Perfect!

Hey, just between you and me ... you keep this stuff pre-written and stuck in a drawer for just such an occasion, don't you? ;-)

I do like the liberal use of dismissal "quotes" ... like the "hard problem" or "mystic" etc but I miss the usual prefatory and redundant "so-called" ... you're off your game!

Well ... "Ufology" all I can say is once again you've left my caveats out of the material you quoted from my post, one caveat imprimatur (or "premature"?) no, no - emptor in the form of pulsus a mortuus equus ... and one Sapere aude. Who gets a Sapere aude these days?

The lack of a public personae up which to keep frees me to foolishness of the divine kind and to advocate for one of the 20th century's more feckless archetypes, the one who keeps lamenting his greatest trick was convincing the world he didn't exist ... lamenting with a "wicked" grin on his face, that is ...

But now, to business:

That doesn't mean anything without knowing the whole process, like how much information you gave he or she, or that he or she had access to; how many other possibilities the "medical intuitive" mentioned, how common the condition is in the general population and whether or not it's actually relevant to your symptoms, and whether or not he or she had any recognized medical training. But even then, without knowing all the gory details, it's still possible that complete quacks with a little statistical knowledge and experience can get right answers.

Agreed, agreed all around ... here is what I will "vouch" for though:

one possibility was mentioned, it's uncommon and relevant as hell ... medical training? yes ... recognized? ... yes, in 17 states ... gory details, yes? and two other doctors went through an extensive line of reasoning to arrive at the same conclusion.

Still, "in the end" I have artificial antibodies coursing through my veins, which makes me something of a Chimera ... in addition to a "Luddite" ... additional "allopathic" treatment could, in a stretch, account for my verbal extravagance ... so do take it in the "spirit" in which it was intended.

 

[Randall]

Still, "in the end" I have artificial antibodies coursing through my veins, which makes me something of a Chimera ...

Forgive me but I suggest that you get yet another opinion. According to the articles I've just read through, artificial ( synthetic ) antibodies are made in cutting edge labs ( example ). You don't just happen on them by accident, and identifying them wouldn't be done by "reasoning", but by using the same cutting edge labs that create them, which are not commonplace. Basically, unless you underwent some kind of specific procedure to acquire them, you simply wouldn't have them, and the likelihood that you had such a procedure and are unaware of it is virtually nil. If you really do have them, I imagine you might get a knock on the door from some rather interested parties. So on first perusal, there's something just not adding up with your diagnosis.

in addition to a "Luddite" ... additional "allopathic" treatment could, in a stretch, account for my verbal extravagance ... so do take it in the "spirit" in which it was intended.

LOL ... not sure what spirit that was intended as, but I detect a measure of humor that bears your unique signature .

 

[smcder]

Forgive me but I suggest that you get yet another opinion. According to the articles I've just read through, artificial ( synthetic ) antibodies are made in cutting edge labs ( example ). You don't just happen on them by accident, and identifying them wouldn't be done by "reasoning", but by using the same cutting edge labs that create them, which are not commonplace. Basically, unless you underwent some kind of specific procedure to acquire them, you simply wouldn't have them, and the likelihood that you had such a procedure and are unaware of it is virtually nil. If you really do have them, I imagine you might get a knock on the door from some rather interested parties. So on first perusal, there's something just not adding up with your diagnosis.

LOL ... not sure what spirit that was intended as, but I detect a measure of humor that bears your unique signature .

You're "forgiven"!

But that is not the diagnosis, its a treatment that didn't work ... I'm assuming it takes some time to leave the body. The interventions I'm currently receiving are allopathic.

You did correctly detect humor!

 

[Randall]

You're "forgiven"!

But that is not the diagnosis, its a treatment that didn't work ... I'm assuming it takes some time to leave the body. The interventions I'm currently receiving are allopathic.

You did correctly detect humor!

Thanks for clarifying that last bit. That's a rather exotic treatment. I hope it all has a positive effect. We're all living on the edge of a new frontier in medicine. At the rate we're going now, in 20 years there'll be nothing they can't cure. It's just a matter of hanging in there long enough to take advantage of it. I hope all your talk about death in the other thread isn't related to this illness you have .

 

[smcder]

Thanks for clarifying that last bit. That's a rather exotic treatment. I hope it all has a positive effect. We're all living on the edge of a new frontier in medicine. At the rate we're going now, in 20 years there'll be nothing they can't cure. It's just a matter of hanging in there long enough to take advantage of it. I hope all your talk about death in the other thread isn't related to this illness you have .

Doc's given me thirty, forty years tops ... if I behave myself.

Living in a world where there's nothing they can't cure means never taking sick leave ... a dreadful thought!

You mentioned something about a hiatus? My understanding is that can be fixed with minor surgery these days ...

Enjoy the time off and try to come back with proof.

 

[smcder]

Thanks for clarifying that last bit. That's a rather exotic treatment. I hope it all has a positive effect. We're all living on the edge of a new frontier in medicine. At the rate we're going now, in 20 years there'll be nothing they can't cure. It's just a matter of hanging in there long enough to take advantage of it. I hope all your talk about death in the other thread isn't related to this illness you have .

I will add this ... what conventional medicine is offering me now is organ removal. As it takes the surgeons a bit to sharpen their scalpels I have time to explore alternatives. These are more in the nature of your example of vitamins in that they could be empirically confirmed at some point but are currently outside the mainstream scientific (and economic) model ...

I will update on this thread as I think it's important for folks to examine carefully faith in medical progress, I think rarely do we see things go at "the rate we're going now". I question linear models of progress much less more aggressive versions that say it will be exponential.

 

[Tyger]

I will add this ... what conventional medicine is offering me now is organ removal. As it takes the surgeons a bit to sharpen their scalpels I have time to explore alternatives. These are more in the nature of your example of vitamins in that they could be empirically confirmed at some point but are currently outside the mainstream scientific (and economic) model ...

I will update on this thread as I think it's important for folks to examine carefully faith in medical progress, I think rarely do we see things go at "the rate we're going now". I question linear models of progress much less more aggressive versions that say it will be exponential.

Point being that the allopathic model of modern medicine has two avenues of 'cure' - surgery and drugs (and now radiation). In neither case does modern medicine have an understanding of really what is the human body beyond it's analogies with a machine (which the human body is not). Modern medicine does not view the human system as a gestalt of processes that encompass the physical and more than the physical.

Go to a surgeon and the 'cure' will be surgery. I was told that decades ago by a surgeon. Nothing has changed.

Doctors are prescribing drugs that destroy the human system as much as 'cure' the original ailment - as in 'make it disappear' in a plethora of other abnormalities instigated by the administered drug.

Many of our current 'cures' are on the order of blood-letting and leaching in previous centuries. The area where we most give over to a 'scientific authority' is when we are most vulnerable. It matters not that the doctor really does not have a clue what they are doing to the whole human system in front of them with their cutting and drugging and irradiating - we will do it, because we are in pain, discomfort, distress. We will take what we are given. We will take what the insurance will pay for.