Consciousness and the Paranormal — Part 12

[smcder]

Do you mean it's obvious to you ( personally ), or are you making a snide remark? Sorry. Can't tell just from the text.

Lol. Both. No, not snide - but it's obvious and still a serious question. In other words I am asking @Soupie to ground ethics from the statements you have made - for example that destroying the original is never ethical and also I want to know what is ethical in regards to the old man and his children and the copy and the family of the original.

 

[Soupie]

I’m with you and playing devils advocate. What I’m trying to point out, however, is that on this logic, the above is exactly what happens during the course of human life.

The only difference is the tome scale.

Even the location is space is completely different as with difference between Planet Y and x.

The physical organism is constantly rectusled and the pattern remains.

The only thing different with teleportation is the time scale.

 

[Soupie]

How can this be yes if "At any given moment during the process there is only ever one living conscious organism." So one has to die (or lose consciousness) (at best) at the instant the other gains it.

There’s never two

 

[smcder]

I’m with you and playing devils advocate. What I’m trying to point out, however, is that on this logic, the above is exactly what happens during the course of human life.

The only difference is the tome scale.

Even the location is space is completely different as with difference between Planet Y and x.

Does the Human Body Really Replace Itself Every 7 Years?

Most of the cells in your body reproduce at a nonstop rate, but you're not a new person every seven years.

www.livescience.com

 

[Soupie]

Substitute darth vader for the ship of Theseus.

 

[Soupie]

Well, I'm not sure it's the case that every quark is destroyed and then replaced in aging, don't we have the same brain cells throughout life?

We did look into that I think you found that to be the case. I think it’s trivial though.

 

[Randall]

I’m with you and playing devils advocate. What I’m trying to point out, however, is that on this logic, the above is exactly what happens during the course of human life. The only difference is the to me scale. Even the location is space is completely different as with difference between Planet Y and x.

The thing is, what you've suggested as being the same with aging, isn't the same at all. It's only superficially the same. When our cells divide, the new cells are literally made from our own cells, so there is no disruption of continuity of what constitutes us. Copies made from materials other than those that are part of us, are not the same in this way at all.

 

[smcder]

The physical organism is constantly rectusled and the pattern remains.

The only thing different with teleportation is the time scale.

"while brain cells typically last an entire lifetime (neurons in the cerebral cortex, for example, are not replaced when they die)."

so, no?

 

[Soupie]

Atomic Tune-Up: How the Body Rejuvenates Itself

For most people, a makeover means losing weight and getting new clothes, hairstyle and makeup. But the body does its own extreme makeover each year, regularly replacing 98 percent of its atoms. The atomic makeover prompts a more philosophical question: Are people still themselves if their atoms...

www.npr.org

But what they may not know is that the body does its own extreme makeover regularly. In fact, 98 percent of the atoms in the body are replaced yearly.

 

[smcder]

Substitute darth vader for the ship of Theseus.

I think he just got a helmet and iron lung...and the voice of James Earle Jones.

 

[smcder]

We did look into that I think you found that to be the case. I think it’s trivial though.

Why trivial?

 

[Soupie]

The thing is, what you've suggested as being the same with aging, isn't the same at all. It's only superficially the same. When our cells divide, the new cells are literally made from our own cells, so there is no disruption of continuity of what constitutes us. Copies made from materials other than those that are part of us, are not the same in this way at all.

"while brain cells typically last an entire lifetime (neurons in the cerebral cortex, for example, are not replaced when they die)."

so, no?

Cells are too high of a level

 

[Soupie]

Cells also are a pattern embodied by atoms. Atoms which apparently are 98% replaced every year

 

[Soupie]

The thing is, what you've suggested as being the same with aging, isn't the same at all. It's only superficially the same. When our cells divide, the new cells are literally made from our own cells, so there is no disruption of continuity of what constitutes us. Copies made from materials other than those that are part of us, are not the same in this way at all.

So we are only 2% really ourselves bu this logic?

 

[smcder]

So we are only 2% really ourselves bu this logic?

Lol. Both. No, not snide - but it's obvious and still a serious question. In other words I am asking @Soupie to ground ethics from the statements you have made - for example that destroying the original is never ethical and also I want to know what is ethical in regards to the old man and his children and the copy and the family of the original.

 

[Soupie]

“Think of an experience from your childhood. Something you remember clearly, something you can see, feel, maybe even smell, as if you were really there. After all, you really were there at the time, weren’t you? How else would you remember it?

But here is the bombshell: you weren’t there.

Not a single atom that is in your body today was there when that event took place … Matter flows from place to place and momentarily comes together to be you.

Whatever you are, therefore, you are not the stuff of which you are made.

If that doesn’t make the hair stand up on the back of your neck, read it again until it does, because it is important."


[Richard Dawkins uses this quote in his TED Talk (around 10:20)]”

 

[smcder]

So we are only 2% really ourselves bu this logic?

lol it could be the crucial 2% ... that makes up consciousness ... ;-)

OR

congratulations, you've re-invented Buddhism!

Specificall, Dependent Arising.

 

[smcder]

“Think of an experience from your childhood. Something you remember clearly, something you can see, feel, maybe even smell, as if you were really there. After all, you really were there at the time, weren’t you? How else would you remember it?

But here is the bombshell: you weren’t there.

Not a single atom that is in your body today was there when that event took place … Matter flows from place to place and momentarily comes together to be you.

Whatever you are, therefore, you are not the stuff of which you are made.

If that doesn’t make the hair stand up on the back of your neck, read it again until it does, because it is important."


[Richard Dawkins uses this quote in his TED Talk (around 10:20)]”

And yet, he advocates and (presumably) adheres to Judeo-Christian ethics. In this time, persons who have the Corona virus are having certain cells replaced by viral ones, I am taking monoclonal antibodies so I am something of a Chimera ... for that matter, where do you end and the world begins, breath in, breath out ...

 

[smcder]

I’m with you and playing devils advocate. What I’m trying to point out, however, is that on this logic, the above is exactly what happens during the course of human life.

The only difference is the tome scale.

Even the location is space is completely different as with difference between Planet Y and x.

The "tome" scale is an important difference.

 

[smcder]

Managing Cell and Human Identity

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Though they are related, questions about what can be considered a human being can be distinct from those of selfhood. For example, if non-human cells contribute to cell replacement, forming an interspecific chimera, is the patient rendered other than human?"

"Perhaps in a century, the term “human being” will be an object of nostalgia rather than a single moral category. Technologies for enhancing cognitive, psychological, and physical abilities could initiate a supra-human or “transhuman” phase of our evolution, with unknown long term consequences (8,9). We have emphasized to this point the implications of direct interventions for therapies and enhancement. Perhaps just as important is how new technologies will shape our expectation of what it is to be, or remain, human, considering our personal desires to improve ourselves beyond a given normal human capability."