COVID-19 News

[Randall]

@Gene Steinberg: Maybe let's start with this article. Is it actually some radical right-wing attack on Biden? You tell me.

Biden’s Virus Response Resembles Trump’s, Adds Bureaucracy​

Aside from a handful of exceptions, Biden’s actions restate predecessor’s agenda while infusing pandemic response with 'equity' agenda

Biden’s Virus Response Resembles Trump's, Adds Bureaucracy

www.theepochtimes.com

Looking for some keywords ( quasi-Marxist “equity” agenda ), I found a link to these guys:

Biden team set to impose quasi-Marxist 'racial equity' agenda | FreePressers

Joe Biden's team said it plans to “launch a whole-of-government initiative to advance racial equity.”...

freepressers.com

But are these guys just parroting? Or what's the real connection ( if anything )? Here's another perspective:

Biden outlines his racial equity agenda and signs executive actions

He is diavowing racism and xenophobia toward Asian Americans.

www.cbsnews.com

Biden signs executive order ending new DOJ contracts with private prisons

It's one of several racial equity orders serving as a down payment to immediately address systemic racism.

www.axios.com

Okay here's the "Marxist Equity Agenda" - Biden has apparently reversed Trump's defunding of this:

Critical race theory (CRT) | Definition, Principles, & Facts

Critical race theory, intellectual and social movement and framework of legal analysis based on the premise that race is a socially constructed category that is used to oppress and exploit people of color. Critical race theorists hold that racism is inherent in the law and legal institutions of...

www.britannica.com

 

[Gene Steinberg]

No, Biden's pandemic response doesn't resemble Trump. Trump's response consisted of denial, false claims and touting unproven remedies. He dismissed the conclusions of his scientific teams and turned wearing masks and social distancing into a political issue. Estimates indicate that his mass rallies, where most people didn't take the common sense precautions, resulted in 30,000 infections of 700 deaths, including one of his major supporters, Herman Cain, once a candidate for President, who was apparently infected at a Trump rally in Tulsa, OK and died a few weeks later.

Consider that dozens of secret service people and attendees at some White House events were also infected. That included Trump, his wife, at least two of his sons, girlfriends, White House personnel, etc. That's why the media referred to them as super spreader events.

Trump's highly-outed Operation Warp Speed didn't preorder enough vaccines and had no viable distribution plan except to let the states figure it out. Ditto for his general pandemic response, which was to let the states figure it out.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

I know you want to research this Randall, so start with this:

All the President’s Lies About the Coronavirus

An unfinished compendium of Trump’s overwhelming dishonesty during a national emergency

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Yeah, I know it's exhausting to keep up with this nonsense.

 

[Randall]

I know you want to research this Randall, so start with this:

All the President’s Lies About the Coronavirus

An unfinished compendium of Trump’s overwhelming dishonesty during a national emergency

www.theatlantic.com

To be fair, we can eliminate a lot of those examples as outright lies, we can write-off some as anti-panic rhetoric, and we can consider others to be inaccurate but not unimportant e.g. the numbers on suicides. The rest are probably no worse than the lies of any number of other pooliticians and corporate execs.

What the ET times article does is look at the differences in the actual legislation as opposed to a bunch of relatively offhanded opinions, but leaves out Trump's elimination of Obama's pandemic team. But has Biden put it back in place? And what about this "Critical Race Theory"? I'm not so sure it's something that ought to become required reading and universally accepted. But I also don't know enough about it to be sure it shouldn't either. It just looks controversial, and controversial usually throws up a caution flag for me.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

We haven't had 430,000 extra suicides in the U.S. due to the pandemic.

No, those lies are far worse than those of corporate executives. They impacted public perceptions as to the severity of the virus. Indeed, I've encountered people who said they wouldn't wear masks because they were Republicans, as if that had anything to do with it.

Yes, Biden has put in place a pandemic team and there's a comprehensive program about what they plan to do posted on the White House site. They are giving regular briefings as to the status.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/National-Strategy-for-the-COVID-19-Response-and-Pandemic-Preparedness.pdf

The point of the Atlantic article is that Trump and his team of sycophants lied about the pandemic and its severity.

I have no interest in looking or discussing Epoch Times or other extreme right-wing fake news sites. It's history of posting lies about the election and other subjects places suspicion upon even factual items they might publish.

 

[marduk]

That's perfectly fine. I'm just not sure what you disagree with? That China knowingly let infected passengers on flights to the west? That the US is basically in a cold-war with China? That agencies have taken actions to protect the population from another incident, e.g. closing down air travel, restricting other travel, heightening security in general, getting the population to prepare? None of this is hypothetical. So are you saying that you think any connection of the dots is unwarranted?

Lol, I probably wasn't clear, sorry. I mean I don't think there's a global conspiracy among health professionals with an intention to trick people into lockdowns... for reasons?

This is kinda my view of things... there's a giant, global cabal composed of scientists and doctors that are part of an open-source culture indoctrinated for hundreds of years not to harm, all almost unilaterally aligned on deceiving everyone into staying home and wearing masks.

Or... it's a scary pandemic causing people to die, especially if healthcare systems get overwhelmed.

I totally think China biffed it when the outbreak started because they didn't want to look bad. But that's about the extent of the conspiracy in my mind. It's almost over, we should just stay home until we get vaccinated and then get on with our life. It's almost over, why screw it up now.

 

[marduk]

.
I do a lot of listening to independent journalists, being an octogenarian.

I've heard numerous commentators reporting that the COVID virus started out at Fort Detrick, migrated to UNC Chapel Hill, and was forced by collective scientist concern to be transferred to Wuhan, China. Dr. Fauci was mentioned as one of the participants in arranging this.

Other reports say there were some sort of international military "games" or exercises at Wuhan, shortly before it spread, and it was these participants who were most likely the carriers of the virus when they returned home.

I haven't attempted to research this to prove all that, but as someone who listens to the independent reporters day and night, I can say that it seems to be an often-repeated possibility worth considering.

I've always been very uncomfortable, as a result, labelling COVID as having originating in China.

- Squirrel

All secondhand commentary, none of it evidence of anything.

It was first detected in Wuhan. It's not that big of a leap to assume it therefore started there.

And if it was a biological weapon, to Randall's exhaustive point about it's fatality, it's a pretty crappy one.

 

[Randall]

We haven't had 430,000 extra suicides in the U.S. due to the pandemic.

That doesn't mean that the issue of suicides isn't important. There's this tendency for Trump haters to write-off anything associated with him simply because it came out of his mouth, instead of looking at in in a balanced manner ( like they should ).

No, those lies are far worse than those of corporate executives.

That depends on the executive and the lie. Shall we start with: “Cigarette smoking is no more ‘addictive’ than coffee, tea, or Twinkies.”

They impacted public perceptions as to the severity of the virus. Indeed, I've encountered people who said they wouldn't wear masks because they were Republicans, as if that had anything to do with it.

We've been through the issue of masks again recently where I showed using your own example that no scientific studies have been published showing that masks prevent COVID-19, and that transmission by breath is virtually zero unless you're within 8 inches. I'm not an "anti-masker".

I'm a selective masker who believes that there are situations where and when masks should be required, and that those do not include the vast majority of everyday low-risk environments. But I also don't think people who are personally more comfortable wearing one should be prevented from wearing one or harassed either.

Yes, Biden has put in place a pandemic team and there's a comprehensive program about what they plan to do posted on the White House site. They are giving regular briefings as to the status.

Thanks for the link. I see that Biden is "Restoring the White House Directorate on Global Health Security and Biodefense established by the Obama-Biden Administration." This seems like good news.

However it also purports to make pandemic management scientific rather than political, while at the same time writing Executive Order Protecting Worker Health and Safety which directs the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) to issue updated guidance on COVID-19 worker protections, and to consider whether emergency temporary standards, including with respect to mask wearing, are necessary.

But we know that there have been no scientific tests that conclusively prove that masks will do any good at all in these sets of circumstances. So according to your logic, there's one big "lie" already. Or is it okay to let that one go just because it's not Trump and you're okay with mask laws?

The point of the Atlantic article is that Trump and his team of sycophants lied about the pandemic and its severity.

We've been through that already. It's not nearly that simple.

I have no interest in looking or discussing Epoch Times or other extreme right-wing fake news sites. It's history of posting lies about the election and other subjects places suspicion upon even factual items they might publish.

You don't have to. But every news source is going to have some kind of slant or bias or focus. Knowing what those are can give you more perspective on the issues than some clinically sanitized version that is absent of any motivation for writing it.

 

[Randall]

And if it was a biological weapon, to Randall's exhaustive point about it's fatality, it's a pretty crappy one.

The claims have been that the mass killing of Americans is not part of the alleged CCP manifesto ( see the previous videos by former military experts and the exiled Chinese billionaire whistle blower on this ). It's more the case that any deaths that may happen in the effort to destabilize the West would be considered collateral damage. This fits perfectly with the what's happened with COVID-19.

I've heard that "lousy bio-weapon" argument before. We can apply the same logic to other weapons. We don't always use the one that will cause them most destruction. We use the one that will get the results we want.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

You don't have to. But every news source is going to have some kind of slant or bias or focus. Knowing what those are can give you more perspective on the issues than some clinically sanitized version that is absent of any motivation for writing it.

To an extent, but Epoch Times goes way beyond what I regard as normal spin. I have just so much time on my hands to chase this down.

 

[marduk]

The claims have been that the mass killing of Americans is not part of the alleged CCP manifesto ( see the previous videos by former military experts and the exiled Chinese billionaire whistle blower on this ). It's more the case that any deaths that may happen in the effort to destabilize the West would be considered collateral damage. This fits perfectly with the what's happened with COVID-19.

I've heard that "lousy bio-weapon" argument before. We can apply the same logic to other weapons. We don't always use the one that will cause them most destruction. We use the one that will get the results we want.

Well... wouldn't supporting another narcissistic fascist that can be manipulated be easier? We seem to have plenty of them kicking around.

 

[Randall]

Focus on Enforcement - From Biden's National Pandemic Strategy

"Assess the Need for Emergency Temporary Standards. Executive Order Protecting Worker Health and Safety also directs OSHA to immediately start work to determine whether to issue emergency temporary standards, which would create enforceable requirements to protect workers. If issued, this standard would direct employers to adopt plans to keep workers safe and healthy, and make clear how those standards are enforced by OSHA."​

​

"Strengthen enforcement efforts to protect worker health and safety. Enforcement is critical to ensuring that employers follow the rules. OSHA will strengthen its enforcement efforts, and it will launch a National Emphasis Program to focus enforcement resources on workplace violations that put the largest number of workers at serious risk. President Biden has also called on Congress to provide additional funds to bolster enforcement efforts."​

I might be very concerned about this emergency "Enforcement" for my "safety" based on a "lie" about the "science", if I were an American

 

[Randall]

Well... wouldn't supporting another narcissistic fascist that can be manipulated be easier? We seem to have plenty of them kicking around.

Not sure of the point there. We're talking about the CCP's alleged strategy to destabilize the West, which I wouldn't be surprised in the least to find isn't simply an allegation. According to a Forbes Article, the strategy has been well documented in Chinese literature, published and sanctioned by organizations of the People’s Liberation Army, for well over 50 years. It refers to the following book ( link below ). Maybe it's all BS. I haven't read it. On the surface however, there have been so many other similar claims, that my confidence is high that it isn't just a conspiracy theory.

The Hundred-Year Marathon​

 

[marduk]

Not sure of the point there. We're talking about the CCP's alleged strategy to destabilize the West, which I wouldn't be surprised in the least to find isn't simply an allegation. According to a Forbes Article, The strategy has been well documented in Chinese literature, published and sanctioned by organizations of the People’s Liberation Army, for well over 50 years. It refers to the following book. Maybe it's all BS. I haven't read it. On the surface however, there have been so many other similar claims, that my confidence is high that it isn't just a conspiracy theory.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/1250081343/?tag=rockoids-20

Lol, I was being flippant. Russia sure seemed to get great bang for their buck getting Trump in office, and then reaping the rewards of that.

China's got money. GOP is going to need it soon.

 

[Randall]

Beijing Again Suggests US to Blame for Pandemic as WHO Probes Virus Origins​

Beijing Again Suggests US to Blame for Pandemic as WHO Probes Virus Origins

www.theepochtimes.com

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Remember that Epoch Times is owned by a Chinese dissident with an ax to grind. Even if his grievances are real, it colors the coverage.

The opening sentence, for example, makes assumptions that the outbreak was caused by the CCP.

 

[marduk]

Came across this Randall and thought I would throw it out there:

CALGARY -- A review of Alberta Health data on influenza deaths shows more people have died of COVID-19 in 2020 that died of flu since the 2009-10 flu season.

The reported data showed no more than 562 people died from the flu over the last decade in the province, compared to the 719 deaths attributed to COVID-19 since March.

Protesters angered by public health officials and government responses to the novel coronavirus have commonly claimed tests are falsely identifying seasonal flu as COVID-19.

More Albertans have died from COVID in 10 months than in past 10 years of flu

A review of Alberta Health data on influenza deaths shows more people have died of COVID-19 in 2020 that died of flu since the 2009-10 flu season.

calgary.ctvnews.ca

 

[Randall]

Came across this Randall and thought I would throw it out there:

More Albertans have died from COVID in 10 months than in past 10 years of flu

A review of Alberta Health data on influenza deaths shows more people have died of COVID-19 in 2020 that died of flu since the 2009-10 flu season.

calgary.ctvnews.ca

The problem with these stories like this is that they spin the issues in order to justify the government's actions. For starters it gets people focused on the debate between influenza and COVID-19, when that debate is in and of itself nearly irrelevant to what's happening to the lives and livelihoods of people who have neither the flu nor COVID-19. It's a complete red herring.

This is a complex subject. I've changed my views on various aspects of the issues a number of times as new information has surfaced. Another reminder about what may very well be misleading numbers is that the WHO changed the way the cause of deaths were to be reported such that if it is the case that our system is following those recommendations, the mortality rate and deaths cited are definitely skewed.

I have found no way to confirm this within our system because that fine-grained data is really difficult to obtain. We basically have to trust what we're being told. However the source was directly from the WHO website where it describes how deaths from COVID-19 as opposed to deaths with COVID-19 were to be reported, and it is a complete turnaround from the way they were being reported prior to the pandemic. That was verified by agencies such as the American Cancer Society.

The problem is that most people don't have the time to look into these issues this deeply. Hell, even I don't. But here's something else to ponder. When going way back to find public data on deaths in Alberta from respiratory related diseases prior to the pandemic, I found that total deaths from respiratory illnesses were over 800 in one of the years.

Remember that COVID-19 was called pneumonia at first, because it is a perfectly legitimate medical term for it, even if less specific. In the intervening years between that study and now, the population has increased to the point where the deaths from COVID-19 in the groups most affected, may actually look very similar. Take into account the way the deaths are being reported, and the big emergency vanishes.

I've said this before: To get a really balanced view of the picture, we need access to fine grained data and some independent people to run a critical analysis. But we don't have that. We do however have estimates that the number of people who will die from poverty related causes brought on by the lockdowns. They are in the millions, and that's after the pandemic is all over ( if it ever ends ).

Also, lets again be reminded about the "flatten the curve" strategy. It's a trade-off for fewer immediate hospitalizations for a longer disease life-cycle. The overall mortality rate doesn't change. So vaccines notwithstanding, had our system been able to take-in the numbers, we'd be over the curve, no more people than otherwise would have died, and it would all be over by now. No variant would have had time to emerge either, unless it also came from a lab.

The reason we didn't go with that option was because our system couldn't handle it. However in China they built a new hospital in 10 days complete with isolated rooms for patients. In over a year since the pandemic began, how many have we built to specifically handle it? None. Why? The cost would surely be a whole lot less than the cost of what the lockdowns have cost, not to mention the billions lost on the pipeline.

Some might argue that China is communist so they can just do whatever they want. Sorry but that excuse obviously fails in the face of us being under the Alberta Emergency Measures Act, which means they certainly could have built whatever hospitals were needed, and hired as many people as were needed as well. But wouldn't that just throw a great big wrench into their plans to lay-off over 11,000 heath care workers.

This government says it wants to "protect the system" when in fact it wants to reduce it, if not kill it by privatizing it. Building new hospitals would have meant keeping those jobs and expanding the system so it could cope. But no, they couldn't have that, so they forced thousands of perfectly healthy working people to close-up shop, many of them permanently, and then feed us these pathetic excuses.

All the while, treating us as if we're in a fu&^ing communist dictatorship. People who own their own houses can't even decide for themselves how many guests they can have in their own homes without risking government imposed fines. It's totally outrageous, but they've scared people into submission, and even into reporting on their neighbors.

All that being said, I still personally haven't broken a single rule. But I really wish someone who isn't suffering financially because of all these measures would fund the sort of study needed to obtain and present the variables in a way that people with serious doubts like these would be satisfied with. If such a study validated all these repressive restrictions, then fine. So far NONE have. The science has been a façade for the politics of reducing the capacity and reliability of our healthcare system.

 

[marduk]

I’m with you on the hospitals. We need Kenney & co gone. I hate to say it, but NDP is looking pretty good there.

Regarding being a dictatorship because of who you can let in your house, I think that’s one of the better restrictions based on the data. Social transmission appears to be a real problem here. And yet, people are still having parties. Clearly we cannot be trusted to be responsible here.