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marduk said:
I’m with you on the hospitals. We need Kenney & co gone. I hate to say it, but NDP is looking pretty good there.
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The NDP has looked better for a long time. They were doing as well or better than the Conservatives until the Conservatives joined their forces. I'm not personally into party politics. I vote for the ones that seem to have the best plans. in addition to their basic ideology and platform.
marduk said:
Regarding being a dictatorship because of who you can let in your house, I think that’s one of the better restrictions based on the data. Social transmission appears to be a real problem here. And yet, people are still having parties. Clearly we cannot be trusted to be responsible here.
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Governments would need something far more problematic than COVID-19 for me to go along with them using intimidation ( financial & physical ) to make people "act responsibly" during peaceful social gatherings on their own property. I'm not nearly that authoritarian, and am increasingly surprised that you are. However that doesn't mean I also don't see the basis for your reasoning.

My view is that if people choose to take the chance that they might get sick with this particular disease, by socializing peacefully on their own property, then I think that should be their right, and if "the system" can't handle the load, then it's the government's job to bring it up to a standard where it can, because it's their job to support our lifestyle with the infrastructure needed, not to tell mutually consenting peaceful adults how to behave.

This doesn't in any way mean I support having COVID parties, or that I think people with symptoms should be in attendance. I just think that making the rules about who should be allowed to attend a private peaceful social gathering should be up to the hosts, not the police. Again, it blows my mind you'd be even close to a disagreement on this issue in this particular case.

This isn't Ebola. It's a disease so mild that between 40% and 90% of those who get it, don't even know they have it. That doesn't make it scary unless you buy into the fear on the media. Looking at it rationally, it makes it less scary. Very few ( if any ) young people are going to get symptoms that require them to be hospitalized. They have more to fear from the law and the enforcement than the disease.

Am I just wasting my breath here? How far is it from these restrictions to having some goon squad show-up at my door to charge me with "inciting public disobedience" just for posting my position? Thankfully I'm not one of the thousands put out of work because how many employers would frown on having an anti-authoritarian free thinker on their payroll? I'm not being paranoid either. Not after the number of power tripping jerks I've worked for.
 
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Actually it's more like half don't have symptoms. But consider that the reported death rate is about 10 times that of the flu. I know you dispute the numbers, but you still have additional deaths that have to be accounted for, and they're not all suicides.
 
Gene Steinberg said:
Actually it's more like half don't have symptoms. But consider that the reported death rate is about 10 times that of the flu. I know you dispute the numbers, but you still have additional deaths that have to be accounted for, and they're not all suicides.
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The figures I used for identifying COVID are from the WHO and places like South Korea where they had the best testing and tracing. So that's why it's such a wide range. It all depends on the situation in the geographical location where the outbreak is happening. Back when this first started there were a bunch of doctors here that had gone on a curling bonspiel. They decided to get themselves tested and some were positive. None had any symptoms.

So here we have a situation where it was so mild that even the doctors didn't know they had it, yet we've got these stasi-like restrictions. because a relatively few cases might be serious enough to tip the already lacklustre healthcare system here over the edge in some ( not all ) jurisdictions. So far, our system has not been overwhelmed, and we have some emergency overflow facilities that to my knowledge have never been used.

As for the mortality rate and number of deaths, there's a pretty good video in this thread where a guy in the UK put it into perspective for what was happening there. Also when you say it's not all suicides, you might want to consider that there was at least one month well into the pandemic where in British Columbia suicides and overdoses linked to lockdowns and restrictions outnumbered COVID deaths. Also have a look at Japan.

In Japan, more people died from suicide last month than from Covid in all of 2020.​

Women have been impacted most ...​


www.cnn.com

In Japan, more people died from suicide last month than from Covid in all of 2020

More people died from suicide in Japan in October than succumbed to Covid-19 all year. And more women are taking their own lives, as they lose part-time work and take on the bulk of family responsibilities at home.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

... The first time, she was just 22 years old with a full-time job in publishing that didn't pay enough to cover her rent and grocery bills in Tokyo. "I was really poor," said Kobayashi, who spent three days unconscious in hospital after the incident.​
​
Now 43, Kobayashi has written books on her mental health struggles and has a steady job at an NGO. But the coronavirus is bringing back the stress she used to feel.​
​
"My salary was cut, and I cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel," she said. "I constantly feel a sense of crisis that I might fall back into poverty."​
​
And this doesn't even begin to touch the millions that the WHO predict will die from poverty directly linked to the economic lockdowns. That is why I supported the Great Barrington Declaration, which many people still don't know about, because it has been largely ignored and/or misrepresented in the media.
 
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COVID Diagnosis with PCR
Misinterpreting results | Cycle threshold explained
​

 
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The Washington Post today:

U.K. coronavirus variant spreading rapidly through United States, study finds​

"The coronavirus variant that shut down much of the United Kingdom is spreading rapidly across the United States, outcompeting other mutant strains and doubling its prevalence among confirmed infections every week and a half, according to new research made public Sunday.

The report, posted on the preprint server MedRxiv and not yet peer-reviewed or published in a journal, comes from a collaboration of many scientists and provides the first hard data to support a forecast issued last month by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that showed the United Kingdom variant becoming dominant in the U.S. by late March.

The spread of the variant, officially known as B.1.1.7, and the threat of other mutant strains of the virus, have added urgency to the effort to vaccinate as many people as possible as quickly as possible. The variant is more contagious than earlier forms of the coronavirus and may also be more lethal, although that is far less certain. . . ."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...9.sPseZzGcCmgw8eRMjn-pYlIkDJg-b_GjCBSgy3v1EgE
 
Constance said:
The Washington Post today:

U.K. coronavirus variant spreading rapidly through United States, study finds​

"The coronavirus variant that shut down much of the United Kingdom is spreading rapidly across the United States, outcompeting other mutant strains and doubling its prevalence among confirmed infections every week and a half, according to new research made public Sunday.

The report, posted on the preprint server MedRxiv and not yet peer-reviewed or published in a journal, comes from a collaboration of many scientists and provides the first hard data to support a forecast issued last month by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that showed the United Kingdom variant becoming dominant in the U.S. by late March.

The spread of the variant, officially known as B.1.1.7, and the threat of other mutant strains of the virus, have added urgency to the effort to vaccinate as many people as possible as quickly as possible. The variant is more contagious than earlier forms of the coronavirus and may also be more lethal, although that is far less certain. . . ."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...9.sPseZzGcCmgw8eRMjn-pYlIkDJg-b_GjCBSgy3v1EgE
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From another WAPO article today:

South Africa pauses rollout of Oxford-AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine after study finds ‘minimal’ efficacy against variant​

The vaccine was shown to provide only “minimal protection” against mild to moderate coronavirus infections caused by a rapidly spreading variant. The finding, based on limited data from a trial involving younger, healthy study participants, serves as a warning about the ability of variants to outsmart vaccines.

"Vaccine developers say they are creating “libraries” of tweaked vaccines that they could quickly test against emerging viral variants. They say that new and improved versions of their vaccines could be tested and released within the year, if necessary. . . ."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...Q.sMvLSqU-7772e6Tli-eo7jEriPZJ0IqfQC5oVFnyOp8

I think we are clearly in this effort to contain Covid for a very long haul, likely years. What do y'all think?
 
marduk said:
@Randall I know you're concerned about suicide rates with lockdowns - looks like we might have some good-ish news there: Many assumed suicides would spike in 2020. So far, the data tells a different story
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Interesting. Let's not forget that I haven't simply been focusing on obvious suicides alone. That would be narrowing the goalposts. I've been focusing on poverty related casualties connected with lockdowns and restrictions. There's been plenty of data showing spikes in those areas. In some cases suicides and overdoses might be one in the same, but the article looks like it has separated them from each other. Maybe if we separated out falling from high places, car crashes, carbon monoxide poisoning, and gunshot wounds, there'd be no suicides at all!

So I think the more relevant question isn't the total number of suicides, but the numbers of deaths that have been related to the COVID restrictions and lockdowns, and when we do that, there are obvious increases connected with the restrictions. In other words, lower overall suicide numbers alone don't tell the whole story, and it doesn't mean that there's no actual connection, or that other things like drug overdoses aren't a contributing factor.

 
Gene Steinberg said:
And something more to talk about. Note that these investigators did not have a motive to support the China lab conspiracy theory:

www.usatoday.com

WHO will end research into 'extremely unlikely' theory that COVID-19 originated in Wuhan lab

The U.S. State Department said the U.S. would wait to see the WHO team's full report before reaching conclusions about the origin of the coronavirus.
www.usatoday.com
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Same old story. Dig a little deeper and it's obvious that the likely source is the Wuhan Lab. What there isn't any conclusive evidence for is the "zoonotic" theory. To my knowledge, no intermediate species with the SARS-CoV-2 virus has ever been found. The bats that allegedly carried the virus cannot infect humans directly, and besides that, their caves are some 500 km away from Wuhan.

However virologist Shi Zhengli, was studying those same bats in the virology lab near the Wuhan market, and was looking specifically for the possibility of making the coronavirus transmissible to humans. She found that the spike protein that was then missing, but now found in SARS-CoV-2 would work. This is published in scientific papers.

Add to that the total sanitization of the market and the lab at the onset of the outbreak, the cover-up, the infected passengers knowingly let out of the country on airliners headed for the West and the whistleblowers who confirmed all this, and the case for "no evidence" evaporates. All we don't have is a signed confession. There's more evidence that it's part of the CCP's plan to destabilize the west than anything else.

Then again, maybe it was just a bat 500 Km away that somehow infected some other animal that ended-up at the wuhan market, but could never be located, because ( who knows why ) I don't. Nobody else does either. Why? Because it was never there in the first place! But we can't say that, especially in the news, where the CCP journalists, agents, and their parrots make sure the "zoonotic" theory is the one that is most prevalent.

And before anyone says doing that would be bad for Chinese business interests, you might want to read this story:

entrepreneurshandbook.co

The Introverted ‘Lone Wolf’ Who Made $70 Billion in 2020

From selling erectile dysfunction supplements to becoming the 6th richest man in the world
entrepreneurshandbook.co entrepreneurshandbook.co
 
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Gene Steinberg said:
Speaking of scientific viewpoints, here's one that should be considered seriously:

www.nationalgeographic.com

Fauci: No scientific evidence the coronavirus was made in a Chinese lab

In an exclusive interview, the face of America’s COVID-19 response cautions against the rush for states to reopen, and offers his tips for handling the pandemic's information deluge.
www.nationalgeographic.com www.nationalgeographic.com
Click to expand...

Again. Same old story. Same answer. Check out this Scientific American article featuring our star Chinese virologist who was working on the virus in the Wuhan lab:

www.scientificamerican.com

How China's 'Bat Woman' Hunted Down Viruses from SARS to the New Coronavirus

Wuhan-based virologist Shi Zhengli has identified dozens of deadly SARS-like viruses in bat caves, and she warns there are more out there
www.scientificamerican.com www.scientificamerican.com

And this 2017 article from Nature, again featuring our star chinese virologist:

www.nature.com

Bat cave solves mystery of deadly SARS virus — and suggests new outbreak could occur

Chinese scientists find all the genetic building blocks of SARS in a single population of horseshoe bats.
www.nature.com www.nature.com

It seems more likely to me that Fauci is just acting as a mouthpiece for those who don't want the general population to realize they've been attacked with a devious biological weapon that has near perfect plausible deniability. I say "near perfect" because there's no doubt that even if we can't prove SARS-CoV-2 is a lab modified bat virus, there's no doubt that Chinese authorities participated in a heavy-handed cover-up commensurate with keeping the lid on such a story, and that they knowingly let thousands of infected passengers out of the country on international flights. Maybe watch the Australian 60 Minutes documentary again.

Inside China's "cover-up" and the weaponisation of COVID-19 | 60 Minutes Australia


​
 
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Lawsuit sues China for six trillion dollars in coronavirus reparations
And that was last April | 60 Minutes Australia​

 
I see no reason to suspect Dr. Fauci or accuse him of being someone's mouthpiece. That's not a response based on facts but on personal attacks.
 
Gene Steinberg said:
I see no reason to suspect Dr. Fauci or accuse him of being someone's mouthpiece. That's not a response based on facts but on personal attacks.
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He works directly for the Government and therefore if it has any relevance to National Security, he'll say, or at least spin the "facts" according to what the Government wants. That would be a reasonable explanation for his ignorance of the evidence. Or, he might be very good at certain things, but not well informed about others. It happens a lot. We see it with scientists who claim there's no evidence for UFOs too.

In medicine, I saw it during my exchanges with oncologists about the cancer treatments my former life-partner was receiving. I asked them if they knew about the work at Princess Margaret Hospital with PD1 inhibitors. They had no clue what I was talking about. They just knew how to inject deadly chemicals into her, and they didn't even do a very good job of that.

So credentials are beside the point when it comes to these issues. One needs to look at all the evidence and then see whose opinion carries the most weight. Simply saying "He's got a degree and works for the Government, therefore trust him." isn't good enough for me. But if it's enough for you, then don't watch the videos I posted, or read the scientific papers or articles for yourself. Just believe Fauci.

Chinese lab experimented on 'highly pathogenic viruses'​

days before COVID-19 outbreak​


 
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