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I won't bother to provide evidence to the contrary and this will be my last post on this topic. I assume, and I'm guessing, from your post that you are a socialist, voted for Biden and are ok with his allowing open borders that defeat vaccine efforts. Probably never served in service to the country but like to reap the benefits and would be comfortable with a utilitarian or even totalitarian government. The end
 
You won't bother because you have no evidence to the contrary to produce, just unfounded claims. I notice that you never really engaged in what I wrote, just made phony attacks.

No, Democrats do not want "open borders," and such non-existent policies do not defeat vaccine efforts since they don't exist. People like you help defeat vaccine efforts.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
 
If we can have a real debate, where both sides present facts (as I've done loads of times above), we can continue this thread.

If the personal attacks and false claims persist, I'll close it. Up to you folks.
 
I think I'm the only folks your talking about. Here is the deal. I am fully vacinated. I have no problem with the vaccine or wearing masks. What I have a problem with is making people inject something against their will. Sorry, no one is going to tell me what to think or what to do with my body. It's my gut feeling that covid is not going away no matter what. I read your myths and I concur. You also sent a video from CNN. In that case, I wouldn't believe a word they or MSNBC said if their tongues were notarized. I'm ok if you are. It's really not up to either of us to try to influence anyone anyway.
 
If we're going to talk vaccine mandates, they date back to the Revolutionary War. They are needed because people are getting sick (many dying) because of people who refused to be vaccinated. Logic and reason aren't helping.

As to CNN, and MSNBC, if you can provide evidence of what they broadcast is consistently false, I'd like to see it. I can cite chapter and verse about Fox News and Newsmax.
 
That is so true. As I posted before, the COVID patients in intensive care are something like 98% unvaccinated at the moment here.

The mRNA vaccinations work, period. There is at the moment so much validable research that I challenge anyone to give a proper, peer-reviewed scientific paper that says otherwise. I'm not interested in youtube talking heads.

I'm myself mostly worried that we'll have a neverending pandemic, which is being upheld by politics. In Finland they just said that the borders will be closed by end of the year. You need certificate or dual test to cross. To me that is excessive.
 
What your government there is doing is compensating for the behavior of idiots. We wouldn't need mandates if we didn't have people who make up silly excuses or silly claims to avoid getting a jab in the arm. It sounds like what children feel at age two when they get a few shots.

The upcoming mandates in the U.S. are the result of that behavior. Act like children, and be forced to eat your spinach.
 
True, as we all got polio vaccinations at school. I always keep wondering, why these antivaxxers don't disapprove those?

But its still bad. Minority of antivaxxers cannot keep a society closed down for indefinitely. Unfortunately here in Europe, the law professors are caught in antivaxx rights. Because of them we all suffer.
 
It's been a matter of panic and extremes. People were frightened by what was going on, and acted perhaps more excessively than they had to in order to contain the virus before vaccines were available. There have been lots of attacks due to the policy changes, but it was about learning to do with something for which there was very little planning.

Well, actually we had a plan for pandemics in the U.S., left by President Obama's team, but a certain former President decided to throw out the playbook and make a mess of things. He was also largely responsible for turning all this into a political issue, instead of allowing the scientists to figure out the best approaches.
 
And for those who say science doesn't work, take a look at your iPhone or Samsung Galaxy, or your Smart TV or your car. Sure they might misbehave from time to time when they get old, but they work.

Like this forum.
 
Heh, its not just US issue. Here in the EU different countries have had different policies. In Finland, they say they are good but in reality they are slow and reactive. See Denmark for good COVID execution.

I assume its different between states over there?
 
Our biggest problem here is that some "Red State (Republican)" governors have a delusion about freedom that ignores the realities of health and safety. Two of the worst states in terms of numbers of infections are Florida and Texas, where vaccination rates are relatively low and are run by governors who can only be classified as morons or sociopaths, or a combination of the two.
 
Any state with a low vaccination rate and the numerous statements from most of the governors about their faux concerns about freedom.
 
With "good examples" I was trying to point to positive examples - where life is returning to normal.. This thread needs also positive stuff, not just bashing..
 
Life to normal is something that absolutely has to come very soon now, or we westeners will lose patience as people.

The official speak is that "everything will be opened, as soon as there is appx 80% vaccination in over 12 year olds and/or everyone in that age group has had a change to get both vaccine shots."

The opposition is holding that promise. You know in Germany the antivaxx stuff has already gotten violent, so I'm worried.
 
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