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www.acsh.org

COVID Shots: The Scientific And Ethical Case Against President Biden's Vaccine Mandate

The federal government has proposed a nationwide vaccine mandate. It's a terrible idea.
www.acsh.org www.acsh.org

I apologize for the link. Funny though this is the only place I have sent it to where it did not work. If it does this time, I will respond to your last post. If not I will have someone friendly to the show send it. Again though it has worked every single time. Also it is the only site I visit that buffers almost every time until it times out.
 
Whatever.

The practical reason is that people aren't paying attention. It has become a stupid political issue, and the stats show unvaccinated people are many times more likely to become infected. In turn, they can infect other people, which means the freedoms of the other people are being compromised. Vaccine mandates date back to the Revolutionary War and George Washington. That pretty much destroys the arguments.

You can find anything online, any opinion, from wacky and dangerous to serious and scientific.

Your link points to an argument that is neither scientific nor ethical. It is NOT ethical to put yourself in a position where you can make other people sick when there is a solution. That is the beginning and end of the argument.
 

​

Gene Steinberg said:
Your conclusions about all this continue to be off-kilter.
Click to expand...
Says you, by mere proclamation without providing counterpoint to my specific objections ( as usual ). Nothing new in either of our views, the only difference being that I don't support authoritarian mandates that would see hundreds of thousands of people getting fired, police using rubber bullets, and coercive shitheads abusing their power. When you finally get that part figured out, let's talk.
 

Military leaders saw pandemic as unique opportunity to test propaganda techniques on Canadians, Forces report says ...​

"The campaign called for “shaping” and “exploiting” information. CJOC claimed the information operations scheme was needed to head off civil disobedience by Canadians during the coronavirus pandemic and to bolster government messages about the pandemic."

nationalpost.com

Military leaders saw pandemic as unique opportunity to test propaganda techniques on Canadians, Forces report says

A plan devised by the Canadian Joint Operations Command relied on propaganda techniques similar to those employed during the Afghanistan war.
nationalpost.com nationalpost.com

— but there's been no conspiracy ...
 
Randall said:

​


Says you, by mere proclamation without providing counterpoint to my specific objections ( as usual ). Nothing new in either of our views, the only difference being that I don't support authoritarian mandates that would see hundreds of thousands of people getting fired, police using rubber bullets, and coercive shitheads abusing their power. When you finally get that part figured out, let's talk.
Click to expand...
I have provided numerous responses. Your conclusions about mandates are just plain wrong. They are not authoritarian. They are common sense measures to improve public health. The proposals in the U.S. were put into force because so many people refused vaccines, many of the same people who didn't mind making sure their kids were vaccinated to get into schools. We are talking of a public health emergency (consider the health care rationing in Idaho for example).

Basically, I provide the arguments and the references, you ignore them and repeat the same falsehoods. That's no way to have a conversation.

I do not want to see this forum being a source of false information where people might get sick because they were made to fear vaccines.
 
Randall said:

Military leaders saw pandemic as unique opportunity to test propaganda techniques on Canadians, Forces report says ...​

"The campaign called for “shaping” and “exploiting” information. CJOC claimed the information operations scheme was needed to head off civil disobedience by Canadians during the coronavirus pandemic and to bolster government messages about the pandemic."

nationalpost.com

Military leaders saw pandemic as unique opportunity to test propaganda techniques on Canadians, Forces report says

A plan devised by the Canadian Joint Operations Command relied on propaganda techniques similar to those employed during the Afghanistan war.
nationalpost.com nationalpost.com

— but there's been no conspiracy ...
Click to expand...
Doesn't show that, if true, it was anything more than some planning by a rogue group of officers. In any case, I have no doubt lots of scenarios might be posted, but it doesn't mean they were put into effect.

Extreme right-wing publications post lots of things, make lots of claims. Doesn't mean they are always correct or ever correct.
 
Long and short is that can find any wacko theory you won't online, as you have done with many of your links to the far-right media that are not confirmed in the mainstream press.

When it comes to mandates, they are standard practice. The COVID-19 vaccines have been administered to billions with a high degree of success. They work, they sharply reduce the chances of people getting sick. Most people with COVID who are in hospital ICU beds are unvaccinated. And you rant about some authoritarianism nonsense. It's enough already.

Authoritarianism is what we almost had in the U.S. when Trump tried to overthrow the government to stay in office. Read the book, "Peril" for the evidence.

www.npr.org

'Peril' Details The Capitol Riot And Trump's Last-Ditch Effort To Hold Onto Power

The atmosphere throughout this account is foreboding, darkened by the shadow COVID-19 cast over the country but also by the dangers to democracy the authors perceive and depict.
www.npr.org www.npr.org
 
Gene Steinberg said:
Long and short is that can find any wacko theory you won't online, as you have done with many of your links to the far-right media that are not confirmed in the mainstream press.
Click to expand...
Not true, and those who know me also know I cross check information so that even if it comes from a source that has other questionable content, the content itself that I check on is good, and I have been forced onto those sites because it has been unfairly censored on the mainstream media. Also, attacking content based on the source is a logical fallacy. It's the content itself that requires counterpoint.
 

‘Breakthrough’ COVID-19 infections rising among fully vaccinated in U.S., CDC data shows​


"The new data released on Tuesday involved more than 43,000 reported infections among Los Angeles County residents aged 16 and older. Of them, 10,895, or 25.3 per cent, occurred in fully vaccinated persons, 1,431, or 3.3 per cent, were in partially vaccinated persons, and 30,801, or 71.4 per cent, were in unvaccinated individuals."

globalnews.ca

‘Breakthrough’ COVID-19 infections rising among fully vaccinated in U.S., CDC data shows - National | Globalnews.ca

Government scientists last week laid out a strategy for booster doses beginning on Sept. 20, pending reviews from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration and the CDC.
globalnews.ca globalnews.ca

This is fast becoming a "pandemic of the vaccinated as well as the unvaccinated".
 
As you know, the amount of protection against the virus provided by the vaccine will wane somewhat over time. Even when there are breakthrough infections, they are generally less severe than for those who are not vaccinated. All these stats have been posted over and over again, such as that you are 11 times more likely to die if you are not vaccinated if you get COVID.

Your argument appears to be that the vaccine isn't perfect, so don't take it.

As to items being unfairly censored: There is an obligation to publish accurate information and to correct or not publish false information.
 
I know you've heard all this before, but again, the current state of COVID in the U.S. is that people who live in Red States, run by Republican governors, are not as highly vaccinated. Thus more are getting sick and more are dying.

www.cnn.com

Analysis: We've reached the 'Red Covid' phase of the pandemic

In his victory speech after the 2020 election, Joe Biden said this: "I pledge to be a president who seeks not to divide, but to unify. Who doesn't see red and blue states, but a United States."
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
 
Found time to finish my post started yesterday at 8:54 pm. The essence was in the same vein as eluded to by Randall in his 7:39 post regarding collateral damage. My point being that the collateral damage of mandatory vaccines will be far worse than letting the vax happen voluntarily. I asked if you thought it was fair for a volunteer soldier, serving his country, to suffer life altering punishment by being given a dishonorable discharge for not taking the shot. You replied, "Soldiers have to obey unless asked to do something illegal." I would agree except you didn't include immoral or unethical. I happen to think it is both. I saw a video of an 18 year soldier, with two months to go, faced with the choice of getting the shot or losing his pension. When there are millions of people that never turned a tap for this country, it would be unconscionable to do such a thing. With this Administration there is already enough consternation and distrust. We don't need more division in the military. The country is in the most vulnerable position ever as it is.
Everyday you read about people getting fired or resigning in mass. Where do the replacements come from. We can't fill jobs without any additional loss in the work force. I'm not talking about clerks and cooks etc. We can work around those. We can't do that with doctors, nurses, firemen, police officers and other critical positions.
If things continue as they are, you'll be posting many more hospital shortage stories.
I say if you want to be a Marxist or Socialist move to Australia and enjoy. That's where were heading.
 
Soldiers routinely receive vaccinations during their service, so this is, of course, nonsense. I have no sympathy for any of this. There is distrust and consternation in some quarters due to politics and not reality.

You are making an issue out of something that should not be an issue. Vaccine requirements go back to the Revolutionary War, as you've been told over and over and over again.

No, Australia is not Marxist.
 
One more thing: I am almost ready to shut this thread. We have a very few posters who simply ignore factual material and references, and repeat the same disproven claims no matter how often corrected. They provide links to discredited far-right wing extremist sites that carry lies and fear-mongering about vaccines, masks, social distancing, mandates and other common sense methods to protect you from a highly contagious disease.

You can find crazy anywhere. I've had enough.

What you do with your own life is your business, but when you take it to this forum we will follow what doctor's swear to in the Hippocratic Oath:

"I will do no harm or injustice."
 
And are some of the threats of employees to quit over vaccine mandates just posturing? You might wonder, in light of this:


Maybe they are just hoping to force a pay raise as compensation.
 
And as far as YouTube is concerned:

www.cnn.com

YouTube is cracking down on anti-vaccine misinformation

YouTube will remove videos spreading misinformation about any approved vaccine, not only those aimed at preventing Covid-19, the company announced in a blog post Wednesday.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

This is NOT a matter of freedom of speech, since YouTube is run by a private corporation that can regulate its content as it sees fit. In this case, they are following the "do no harm" dictate, even though I know a few folks in this forum might object.
 
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