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Do UFO's cause human injury?

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Burnt State, thanks for the kind words about the site. I'd like to do a book, and while there's enough material, I'm holding out for some new discoveries. I am interested in many other cases, but can't say I'd enjoy starting from scratch on another one. This documentation process is a lot of work- far easier just to make stuff up!

By the way, Jim Moseley was going to re-visit a famous UFO casualty case in Saucer Smear, but passed away before preparing it. It was the 1966 Brazil "lead Masks" case:
The Mysterious “Lead Masks Case” | Ghost Theory

As best I can tell, the UFO connection is very sketchy, perhaps grafted onto the story. Still weird, whatever was going on!
 
Sentry, I got caught up in the lead masks' case this morning as that's what Vallee used as the opening to Confrontations. It is entirely surreal and seems like just the right case for a big personality like Moseley to sink into. There's lots of strange bizarre avenues that the case travels down and you can't tell what's a red herring, what's fueled by contactee desire, murder, cult? It's all up for grabs in that one - certainly a salacious story.

What's excellent about completing well documented research is that you then get to put your own unique stamp on real facts with your own interpretations. You've done a lot of the real detailed work already, now you just have to "Redfern" it into thousands of words. Good luck - book writing is all about discipline, and it looks like you have that too.
 
Luton Bedfordshire 1979 Two on duty police officers observed a UFO at close proximity whereby one of the officers clothing was scorched/burned. The reporting officer is still reluctant to release any other details but has retained the relevant clothing.
(PRUFOS)database Gary Heseltine's site "On duty sightings"
 
FlyingSaucersontheAttackbyHWilkins.jpg
flying_saucers_are_hostile.jpg
 
Once you start looking it's incredible how many free, classic UFO books are out there. I found this one:

menacecover.jpg


and there is a very interesting chapter on hostile encounters here: http://www.ufocasebook.com/hostility1.html

The case on James Flynn is quite interesting with positive documentation to be found online on it. So far, aside from the many unconfirmed tales of death and abductions and disappearances in puffs of yellow smoke from South America, most damage to humans is due to human error, getting burned by exhausts or ships chasing people across fields a la "North by Northwest" and a lot of light beams that knock people out yielding no permanent health effects. What I'm not seeing, given the lengthy history of UFO's, is murder or abduction and disappearance. I would have thought there would be many more of these given the scope and scale of ET's power and might. Contemporary incidents of health effects do not seem to be as common as the light beams hitting people in the 60's and 70's.
 
Yup, that was highlighted at the start of the thread - it's one of my top cases and it was May 20, 1967. But after being grilled he continued to search out after the original site and survived and thrived. Despite some months of illness, he went on for another 31 years. He died at the ripe old age of 83! While his case was one of the few strong examples IMHO it had no real serious consequences, and was more of the direct result of human error, after all, who stands right beside the exhaust pipe of a UFO just before take off? Silly rabbit, that Michalak.

michalak.jpg

I think it's likely that the Mihalak case and others are behind the recommendations made in a Civilian Firefighters manual that I've read about and seen online concerning the distance people should maintain between themselves and a landed ufo.
 
This is in response to one of Burnt State's posts above:


“I would count the Colares event as an example of ET displaying indifference to our plight, not maliciousness, in the same way that biologists in the field worry more about their own skin than the animal's.”

I think that makes sense of many encounters involving humans as well as animals. I remember reading quite some time ago some research concerning cattle manipulations performed by a doctor of veterinary (or possibly human) medicine out west who, if I’m recalling correctly, said that there was evidence that the animals had been anestheticized during the mutilations. Chris no doubt knows the physician I’m talking about and can comment on the evidence of anestheticization. If that did take place, it would be consistent with what appears to be the practice of blocking memories of abductees concerning what took place during their abductions.

You also wrote:

“these cases have been reported in an ongoing manner for so long that they have moved into the territory of mythos and remind me a lot of both Vampire stories and the Chupacabra tales, where rural folk experience unique, possibly prosaic, events and then lodge these as part of the Chupa mythos of UFO's with paralyzing light beams,” and
“. . . these remote region tales definitely point to the impact of folklore and mythology on an uneducated, populous that may already have tendencies towards supernatural explanations for prosaic events. At least that's what the witness accounts sound like.”

I think we have to be careful not to assume that people living in third-world countries today are as subject to superstition and prone to hysterical reactions as they have been represented to be in earlier descriptions of them by anthropologists and explorers, adventurers, etc.

Concerning the medic in the accounts you report on, you wrote: “the primary doctor involved as the source for documenting the light wounds, health effects and even two deaths has a lot of problems with her story. she's only 22 years old at the time of documenting these events (some say 24 but either way i don't see how you can become a doctor at 22 and be able to confirm what's taking place); the number of patients cited go from 4, to 35 (Vallee) to 40, 80 and then one source says over 100 patients were seen by her; these incidents took place in 1977, but only in 1993 does she make the claim that two people died from these events that she personally drove in her car to a hospital and then received death certificates for. i find her testimony to be problematic.”

It’s possible that she was a medical student or medical intern (perhaps even beginning her residency) at the time she picked up the two people who died after she drove them to the hospital. I have not yet read Vallee’s Confrontations or Lethal Impact but will read them as soon as possible. I’d also like to read the other accounts you’ve consulted on these matters. Would you link those for me, or name the sources if they’re available in books or articles? Thanks.
 
I had a long conversation (work-related) with a man living in Florida now who had spent most of his life in Puerto Rico. When we'd finished our discussion of the matter at hand I asked him if he had personal experience of ufos and related phenomena while in Puerto Rico. He told me that many people in PR are aware of the ufo phenomenon but that he hadn't had any personal experience of it. He then brought up the issue of chupacabras and told me that a friend of his family's owning a goat farm had reported to his father and him that the farmer awoke one morning to find more than fifty mutilated goats on his farm. I became interested in ufo and related events in PR and read a number of accounts online written by a man named Jose Martin (if I recall correctly), who seems to recognized by ufologists to be the primary researcher of these matters in that country. From his reports and accounts I gathered that some rural people in that country, in more than one area, are by now rather matter-of-fact about the ufos, the mutilations, and even about beings they consider to be extraterrestrials whom they have seen in the region.
 
I think that makes sense of many encounters involving humans as well as animals. I remember reading quite some time ago some research concerning cattle manipulations performed by a doctor of veterinary (or possibly human) medicine out west who, if I’m recalling correctly, said that there was evidence that the animals had been anestheticized during the mutilations. Chris no doubt knows the physician I’m talking about and can comment on the evidence of anestheticization. If that did take place, it would be consistent with what appears to be the practice of blocking memories of abductees concerning what took place during their abductions.
I would be very interested in any type of evidence identifying anesthesia with cattle as that would demonstrate a degree of human compassion making those events more likely to originate from a human source than ET. From all the various reports I've read so far involving light beams, burns etc. it seems that those piloting the craft have zero concern for the immediate well being of the bipedal hominids that are in the way at the moment.

I think we have to be careful not to assume that people living in third-world countries today are as subject to superstition and prone to hysterical reactions as they have been represented to be in earlier descriptions of them by anthropologists and explorers, adventurers, etc.

I hear you on that and am not trying to replicate any western world bias or discrimination at all. I don't really like making the characterizations i did but they do seem to be more accurate than not on the Colares and other South American reports of death and violence by UFO from the 60's and 70's. However, in many of these cases we are in fact dealing with very rural folk; in some cases the descriptions do identify illiterate witnesses who have never heard of UFO's and appear to have limited means of even describing what took place in concrete terms.

The whole Chupa thing sounds way too much like something that had grown into a known collective enemy that had moved through the populous in the same way published UFO reporting often causes many in the west to suddenly see UFO's behind every bright light in the sky. In reading witness reports and quotes you really do get the sense that the Chupa had become the scapegoat for many possible prosaic events. I also had the distinct feeling that when there is a major wave of activity the "hysteria" is unavoidable and it doesn't matter where in the world you are at the time. These big events have a very profound effect on future reporting because of all the cultural front-loading. Don't get me wrong, I do believe the Colares event was definitely a strange sequence of reports, but they are not documented in any real substantial manner, including by Vallee himself. The net result is that every story that is remotely related gets caught up in the net.

It’s possible that she was a medical student or medical intern (perhaps even beginning her residency) at the time she picked up the two people who died after she drove them to the hospital. I have not yet read Vallee’s Confrontations or Lethal Impact but will read them as soon as possible. I’d also like to read the other accounts you’ve consulted on these matters. Would you link those for me, or name the sources if they’re available in books or articles? Thanks.

Either way, she did not seem well equipped to be able to respond accurately to what was definitely an epidemic of surreal proportions. She says in interviews many years later that the big bad gov't told her to keep a lid on things (i can believe that) but to report 16 years later that people died as a result of light beams is altering the historical record in a very substantial manner that casts more doubt than providing insight into the past.

As for pertinent weblinks, I'm pretty sure that all the important ones that lead to good case, or book reads are posted above. That slideshare link I posted for Vallee's Confrontations has a huge collections of some of the classics in UFO literature. It doesn't work well with small devices (iPads) but is easy to move through on your standard interface. Is there a specific case you wanted more info on?
 
A related topic I find fascinating are long term effects close encounters may have on witnesses' personalities and value systems. The example of this that comes most readily to mind is Jim Penniston, or possibly John Burroughs of Rendlesham. Some cite Penniston's wacky binary code revelations as evidence of weak credibility. Given their presumed psych stability at the time of the incident, some behaviors may be evidence of the often deleterious effect on witnesses lives and ongoing mental states often documented in the literature.
 
A related topic I find fascinating are long term effects close encounters may have on witnesses' personalities and value systems. The example of this that comes most readily to mind is Jim Penniston, or possibly John Burroughs of Rendlesham. Some cite Penniston's wacky binary code revelations as evidence of weak credibility. Given their presumed psych stability at the time of the incident, some behaviors may be evidence of the often deleterious effect on witnesses lives and ongoing mental states often documented in the literature.

That is a very fascinating fallout of close encounters with the ultimate, alien other. You could say the same thing about the Catholic mystics and cult devotees. Meeting the impossible equivalent of god has to really rattle one's perspective and behaviours. In some of the South American literature there were very interesting shifts in personalities. One man, described as a pillar of the community, upon being struck by a light beam refused to go out of doors again and stayed a paranoid recluse.

Penniston's binary code is a good example of the witness, having spent many years thinking about the 'incident', starting to redefine reality in odd ways. Travis Walton seems to still be stable. I'm tempted to cite Streiber as an example, but it's very hard to define the line between minds decompensating and someone trying to stay relevant enough to keep making some coin off of the "I Experienced ET" gig. What other signifcant examples are there in the literature?
 
I would be very interested in any type of evidence identifying anesthesia with cattle as that would demonstrate a degree of human compassion making those events more likely to originate from a human source than ET. From all the various reports I've read so far involving light beams, burns etc. it seems that those piloting the craft have zero concern for the immediate well being of the bipedal hominids that are in the way at the moment.

It's possible, too, that whoever is responsible for the truly anomalous cattle mutilations is equipped with 'more than human' compassion. It wouldn't take much more compassion than our species generally applies to cattle on the way to the slaughterhouse on our planet.


{it could also be that their comparative indifference to human pain results from their impression that we must not feel pain since we apparently feel no compassion for the pain of other creatures on our planet.}



I hear you on that and am not trying to replicate any western world bias or discrimination at all. I don't really like making the characterizations i did but they do seem to be more accurate than not on the Colares and other South American reports of death and violence by UFO from the 60's and 70's. However, in many of these cases we are in fact dealing with very rural folk; in some cases the descriptions do identify illiterate witnesses who have never heard of UFO's and appear to have limited means of even describing what took place in concrete terms.

Yes, but illiterate doesn't mean stupid.


The whole Chupa thing sounds way too much like something that had grown into a known collective enemy that had moved through the populous in the same way published UFO reporting often causes many in the west to suddenly see UFO's behind every bright light in the sky. In reading witness reports and quotes you really do get the sense that the Chupa had become the scapegoat for many possible prosaic events. I also had the distinct feeling that when there is a major wave of activity the "hysteria" is unavoidable and it doesn't matter where in the world you are at the time.

How many, and which 'prosaic events' could account for the numbers of these mutilations?


Don't get me wrong, I do believe the Colares event was definitely a strange sequence of reports, but they are not documented in any real substantial manner, including by Vallee himself. The net result is that every story that is remotely related gets caught up in the net.

That may be true and, given the typical official sequestering of ufo-related information, it's often the case that ufo researchers have to apply to articles appearing in the popular press at the time of events like these to obtain any witness accounts at all. But I don't think responsible ufo researchers place too much reliance on such accounts
.

Either way, she did not seem well equipped to be able to respond accurately to what was definitely an epidemic of surreal proportions. She says in interviews many years later that the big bad gov't told her to keep a lid on things (i can believe that) but to report 16 years later that people died as a result of light beams is altering the historical record in a very substantial manner that casts more doubt than providing insight into the past.

In the case of that medical witness, I'm inclined to believe that she had been warned to keep silent about what she had seen and heard. How many times do we have to hear that ufo witnesses, military and civilian, have been warned -- indeed, intimidated -- into silence before we begin to believe it? I believe it. As for the medical witness having waited 16 years before reporting the two deaths, that too is consistent with an official coverup. Finally, what 'historical record' of those deaths and other injuries would we expect to find in a hospital in a terrorized location in which the police and security agencies were attempting to restore 'order'?

As for pertinent weblinks, I'm pretty sure that all the important ones that lead to good case, or book reads are posted above. That slideshare link I posted for Vallee's Confrontations has a huge collections of some of the classics in UFO literature. It doesn't work well with small devices (iPads) but is easy to move through on your standard interface. Is there a specific case you wanted more info on?

Thanks, Burnt State. I'll start with the sources you provided and get back to you if I have more questions.
 
That is a very fascinating fallout of close encounters with the ultimate, alien other. You could say the same thing about the Catholic mystics and cult devotees. Meeting the impossible equivalent of god has to really rattle one's perspective and behaviours. In some of the South American literature there were very interesting shifts in personalities. One man, described as a pillar of the community, upon being struck by a light beam refused to go out of doors again and stayed a paranoid recluse.

Penniston's binary code is a good example of the witness, having spent many years thinking about the 'incident', starting to redefine reality in odd ways. . . .

Penniston's binary code is in my opinion a major anomaly -- a lengthy string of digital information only a handful of mathematical savants might have been capable of writing down within a day of 'hearing' or receiving telepathic download of it. To dismiss this anomaly one would have to resort to calling Penniston a liar, it seems. And not just a liar but a hoaxer who learned binary code at some later point and laboriously attempted to embed a message in English into it. Penniston strikes me as an honest man and a sane one, so I'm unable to resort to that explanation.
 
Thanks, Burnt State. I'll start with the sources you provided and get back to you if I have more questions.

Part of my interest in this thread is about whether or not there is more than just some indifference to us cattle on behalf of the phenomenon. The Light Beam Colares event does seem more indifferent than compassionate. I don't believe anyone used the word 'stupid' to describe any of the witnesses. There was in facts a general annoyance from the populous towards the media that downplayed the significance of the events.

As to the other possible reasons, I stated them earlier as in snake, spider, and in one case where there was not a single or double puncture mark, but whole body burn effects, lightening was suggested. I wouldn't characterize these small puncture marks as mutilations, but more of a "tagging of the human herd." What I do find truly odd is the distinct lack of photo images of victims, especially after the supposd release of Brazilian UFO material. This is one of only two images of the light beam punctures I could find online:

2jffu6u.jpg


However, there is a great collection of images of various drawings people made of ships and their strange flight paths, some military photos and detailed links to the Colares case.

#UFO Case Files: Colares, Brazil UFO Invasion 1977 "Operation Saucer"

As for what makes a good researcher that is entirely up for debate as often many researches will repeat shaky material, twice told tales, rumor and broken telephones if it helps to bulk up the material. Books require a lot of words and it seems a common theme in UFO writing that wants to draw together wide swaths of examples in an attempt to validate or support theories despite a distinct lack of verification. It is the myth that is often more repeated than the fact. Myths disproven seem to be able to be resurrected as truth all too often in this field i.e. Aztec, Maury island etc.

The doctor supposedly drove the two dying light beam victims into town to a real hospital, away from her field unit. She did have the death certificates, but why is this story coming out so much later? Why do UFO researchers alter the number of victims from 4 to over 100? These are all part of the problems in looking at these earlier cases. The military records are probably the best ones. That link really opens up the case FYI.
 
take a look at this...A UFO or...
Well done! The Dyatlov Pass incident is another really exceptional story, with strange human remains, surreal injuries, and people racing out of tents by slashing their way out and not even stopping to get on proper clothes. It is a classic in want of better research - a real Russian mystery in only the way Gogol could have penned it. UFO's, Bigfoot, local tribespeople and Russian nuclear material are some of the suggestions. It is a real potboiler with no easy single answer - in fact it appears to be more than one type of agent of death is in operation here.

Can you believe they made a movie about it?

Here are some other links, in no paricular order, for those who would like to explore one of the most bizarre mass murders/loss of life incidents you'll ever read about.

Mysterious Deaths of 9 Skiers Still Unresolved | The St. Petersburg Times | The leading English-language newspaper in St. Petersburg

Dyatlov Pass Incident - Questions and Answers

Mystery at Dyatlov Pass

The Dyatlov Pass Incident - See What Really Happend at Dyatlov Pass

Cyde Weys Musings Possible resolution to the 9 dead Russian hikers mystery | Cyde Weys Musings
 
What I do find truly odd is the distinct lack of photo images of victims, especially after the supposd release of Brazilian UFO material. This is one of only two images of the light beam punctures I could find online:

2jffu6u.jpg


However, there is a great collection of images of various drawings people made of ships and their strange flight paths, some military photos and detailed links to the Colares case.

#UFO Case Files: Colares, Brazil UFO Invasion 1977 "Operation Saucer"

The Brazilians have been quite open in releasing years of ufo files, but I wouldn't be surprised if they continue to hold back information about and photos of humans injured or killed by what appear to be blatant attacks from ufos whenever they still can suppress that data. This question of hostile intent or danger from ufos will become more prominent in the public mind as ufo evidence builds up, sightings increase, and creeping disclosure continues, and panic in the population is never helpful. Indeed, it's pointless unless there's some defense available to people.

Thank you for that link to drawings and photos of the appearances of ufos in Brazilian files from 1977.
 
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