Does the Phenomenon deserve study

[The Pair of Cats]

I tell you what....Instead of giving you direct examples, why not thumb past almost every one of the subjects in this genre and read the defensive postures nearly every posting ascribes to. There are those that favor ridiculous individuals like Dr. Jacobs who hypnotizes people from thousands of miles away....Subscribers who defend The Dr. Boylans and Nolans of the world who see ancient aliens at every door. Posters who are quick to react defensively for disclosure because they just know E.T. is behind every U.F.O. out there....

And on and on.

It becomes so that when someone like Lancemoody, or myself, or anyone who has the balls to sometimes differ with the flux of bandwagon-ing which goes on here on a daily basis, actually responds with a change of opinion to Mork, that I'm happy to see and will normally thank. Skeptics are necessary ALL the time and in EVERY circle, because without them, the James Jones's of the world normally win out in the end.

I have already read those posts and nowhere did i find the kind of responses you are referring to. At the very best there may be 1 or 2 posts here and there that are as you describe. These may be from newcomers to the forums but certainly not from regular and long time contributors. I have found that 98% of regular contributors have truly sceptical minds and generally acknowledge others opinions even if they differ from their own, unlike you it seems.
Your opinion seems to be pure assumption. It looks like you've had one disagreement too many and now you are lashing out at everyone who doesn't follow your narrow minded dogma .Just because someone disagrees with you does not make them a doe eyed, true believer.

Actually, in the belief system I practice, everyone who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ is considered a "saint" by his rule....There is no classification as to any superiority for better or for worse.

Here we have someone who despises those who jump on "alien" or "ET" bandwagons and yet you have jumped onto the biggest and scariest bandwagon of all. You can no more prove that Jesus ever existed or that your "god" exists than the doe eyed believers can prove that ET exists. Your system of beliefs contains worship of a supernatural entity , an omnipresent "god" who resides, who knows where and a person who may or may not have existed 2000+ years ago. How are you any different to the people you despise?

 

[mike]

Personally i dont see the equation as balanced, there is good evidence that jesus never existed and the "story" is just a rehash of earlier solar mythology, on the other hand i think there is solid physical evidence that UFO's do exist.
I'm always suspect of "skeptics" who knock the "believers" who are themselves believers in something with not a shred of proof as to its being real
I'm always amused when people who insist jesus is real, that god lives in heaven, and that when they die the lord will take them there to live, criticise those who think the evidence that UFO's are real is valid.

I dont think anyone who believes god and jesus are real, can claim to be neutral skeptics

 

[mike]

Here we have someone who despises those who jump on "alien" or "ET" bandwagons and yet you have jumped onto the biggest and scariest bandwagon of all. You can no more prove that Jesus ever existed or that your "god" exists than the doe eyed believers can prove that ET exists. Your system of beliefs contains worship of a supernatural entity , an omnipresent "god" who resides, who knows where and a person who may or may not have existed 2000+ years ago. How are you any different to the people you despise?

Bingo, That mindset is not skeptical, its reflective of a religious agenda.

 

[PararealitySaint]

I thought as much thanks
Are you entirely sure then that your skeptacism as far as UFO's and their occupants does not stem from this belief structure.
Its ironic i guess because i dont believe god is real, that jesus was a real person or that heaven exists as depicted in the bible.
I personally think there is far more evidence that UFO's and ET's are real than there is evidence any of mans "gods" are real

But you see Mike, your assumption is based on a "swaying" of opinion you have toward what you "BELIEVE" and not what is supported in any definitive fact. Meriting the immense vacuum of or a lacking toward any evidential basis, you must take for granted such evidence which quite frankly, the majority of the people of this earth don't believe is real or proves anything at all. This and the numbers show that there are far many more believers in the existence of Jesus Christ as the Son of God than there are believers in E.T. as a Godhead or even existing for that matter.

But no matter....My "skepticism" does not originate from my religious beliefs, for two very important reasons.

A. There is no where in God's true word which says that God didn't create ALL there is in the "HEAVENS" and the earth.....If he created it all, who is to say that there isn't life out of the boundaries of our atmosphere.

B. At one time in my past I was a major proponent of E.T. and actually believed that it was possible they shaped most of what we know of and have become today.

Then I started to use logic to surmise how this was possible. And when I began to look at real facts and actual evidence, and then re-read all the stories and supposed "proof" for the existence of E.T., I began to formulate a different opinion about the whole subject....

1. E.T., this all intelligent species, caring about us "primitive" carbon based units?
2. A little marble like earth compared to the entire universe and for some reason they take such an important interest in us? Finding our civilization amongst a cosmos so vast that it just didn't seem possible. They would have to be closer to us and we should have found them by now.
3. 60 some odd years since Roswell...No rubber metal with strange ruins on it....no E.T. bodies....no physical evidence whatsoever that the crash ever happened.
4. Betty and Barney Hill...Regressive therapy which in and off itself was so contradictory, that the entire story is confusing to the extant of almost disbelief.
5. Lights on U.F.O.s driven by E.T.....crafts made like saucers....element 115 and propulsion necessary to be placed in drives....Seemed all "human" based and human thought of and so similarly human. I couldn't get over just why it didn't sound different some how.....stranger and not like what we as humans would think of as a good sci-fi story.
6. Looking at all the 1950's sci-fi movie material and then listening to the abduction cases, they all sounded like the very shows and double features we would go to at the drive ins and laugh at....Nothing new....

So all of this began my long road to finally concluding that E.T., even if he was a real unit, probably wouldn't spend more than 10 minutes, if that, looking us over. It would be like a scientist observing the machinations of an ant farm. They might keep them in a glass case for a little while and watch the hive develop....perhaps even do some basic tests.....but in the end they would shelve the case and move onto something more to their intelligence need and level. This surely doesn't sound like "ANCIENT ALIENS" and their interest in us apes all these years does it? Abducting us so they can make hybrids, as if in all their advanced science they couldn't figure out how to regenerate their genome?

In conclusion Mike, I am 46 years old now. I have waited and waited and waited for the disclosure and the proof and the little Gray man holding the President's hand for more years than most of the people on this forum have been alive. I have read book after book and listened to the Bud Hopkins and the Richard Nolan's of the world, and honestly, I am sorry to tell you this, but E.T., even if he or it or whatever visited us once, their long gone now Mike. They might have observed us for a passing minute and moved on...But honestly, I doubt they ever existed and I doubt they ever came.

---------- Post added at 11:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 PM ----------

Bingo, That mindset is not skeptical, its reflective of a religious agenda.

The difference is I don't look to my God to legitimize the existence of a species merely to fulfill a lack of understanding for a phenomena. I don't have to sit back and wonder what will become of me someday, and am more than willing to admit that my "proof" is in my "faith" instead of made up evidence by some medium hell bent on some overtly zealous Morkcapade.....

 

[The Pair of Cats]

One of the hallmarks of being an actual skeptic is that I can't choose sides and I have to admit that Phil is right above.

While I frequently disagree with Phil, I imagine that we might even be able to enjoy a beer together in real life (after a punishing and bloody fist fight).

Lance

Yes we do frequently disagree, but not as often as we once did. We probably agree about more things as not.
Lol I'm sure we would enjoy a beer together. The punishing and bloody fist fight is probably unnecessary as we've already fought enough rounds together as it is.

 

[PararealitySaint]

Here we have someone who despises those who jump on "alien" or "ET" bandwagons and yet you have jumped onto the biggest and scariest bandwagon of all. You can no more prove that Jesus ever existed or that your "god" exists than the doe eyed believers can prove that ET exists. Your system of beliefs contains worship of a supernatural entity , an omnipresent "god" who resides, who knows where and a person who may or may not have existed 2000+ years ago. How are you any different to the people you despise?

Isn't it strange how when someone tells you he believes in Jesus Christ as God you must immediately use this as a way to prove that my "bandwagon" is one of equal measure to the "alien agenda" believers....

The difference is I don't propose to use my faith as a jump off point to discern other opinions and state I am the only one who is right. In the "E.T. is the only answer" world, all too many times we read how hypnosis and sightings must prove that E.T. exists.....and this because there is nothing else by which to prove anything at all. Just for once I would LOVE to read one of the Mork wannabes actually state something like, "And I have FAITH that E.T. exists"....So that I can turn around and play the "I know you are but what am I" routine you seem to feel acceptable in spewing forth.

---------- Post added at 11:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 PM ----------

Yes we do frequently disagree, but not as often as we once did. We probably agree about more things as not.
Lol I'm sure we would enjoy a beer together. The punishing and bloody fist fight is probably unnecessary as we've already fought enough rounds together as it is.

Get a room...Geez.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Isn't it strange how when someone tells you he believes in Jesus Christ as God you must immediately use this as a way to prove that my "bandwagon" is one of equal measure to the "alien agenda" believers....

The difference is I don't propose to use my faith as a jump off point to discern other opinions and state I am the only one who is right. In the "E.T. is the only answer" world, all too many times we read how hypnosis and sightings must prove that E.T. exists.....and this because there is nothing else by which to prove anything at all. Just for once I would LOVE to read one of the Mork wannabes actually state something like, "And I have FAITH that E.T. exists"....So that I can turn around and play the "I know you are but what am I" routine you seem to feel acceptable in spewing forth.

So it's okay for you to have "faith" in some supernatural, mystical being with superman like powers who craves your undying love and devotion to him amd him only but anyone who has "faith" that we are being visited by ET is relegated to being a "Mork wannabe"?
I thought that your "god" taught acceptance and tolerance. Insulting humor and sweeping, ignorant pronouncements regarding the majority of forumites doesn't sound like the actions of a kind, gentle and god fearing person. Maybe you had been abducted by aliens when he was teaching that.

 

[mike]

Clearly the "wannabe" saint doesnt see his own words and what they imply.
Most people in this genre are happy to look at the evidence and conclude ET Might be visting us.
You on the other hand are absolutely certain that your mythology is fact.
Most of us are still searching for the answers, you on the other hand already have the answers, you found them in the bible.
which is why i contend your mindset is the one that brings nothing to the discussion. as per this quote

At the time of the Roswell Incident, as now, many US Air Force personnel are conservative Christians, and believe that their can be no life in the universe except human beings, angels and demons, and that only demons travel the universe in conveyances. Angels don't need them.​

This fiction is taken very seriously, so it could be one of the motivations for coverup. The fear would be that revealing the truth would destroy cherished beliefs​

Read the original source: http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/proof-coverup-strongest-evidence-yet#ixzz1HCYp3C53​

I put it to you your motivation is as above, if ET's are real it would destroy your cherished beliefs.
Most people interested in UFO's are open minded to the possibility that ET might be the answer
You are the true believer here, you already have the answers

Your last post contains statement of fact after statement of fact, most people who discusss the UFO enigma are happy to discuss and speculate the might be's.
You on the other hand post definative statements on what it is and isnt

And this is just laughable

The difference is I don't look to my God to legitimize the existence of a species merely to fulfill a lack of understanding for a phenomena

Let me ask you in the context of this quote "where did man come from, in who's image are we created ?"

 

[SRL+]

I think there is a question here, and that is, can E.T.and God coexist? Or ironically enough are they nonexistent?

 

[mike]

Its an important question and goes to the heart of the question in the OP.

For me the answer is no, the god based religions already have the answers and the UFO data will always be Made to fit within that model, where it doesnt, it will be rejected.
Sentient ET life could shake hands with the leaders of the UN on TV tomorrow and the religious would reject that reality instead insisting ET doesnt exist therefore they must be Demons, here to trick us into dumping the older religious model and its answers.
If god made man out of the clay of the earth in his image, then he must look like Homo gautengensis
Chimpanzees share 98 percent of our genes and are covered in hair, head to hairy toes, the alleged greys have little or no hair, we as alleged hybrids are halfway between these extreem's.
But if we are hybrids created by ET, then the whole god made man from clay story goes out the window
I personally dont think you can honestly analyse the data associated with the UFO question, while clinging to a set of existing answers as laid out in an old book, written by people who's level of social and scientific sophistication is poor compared to modern levels of knowledge

---------- Post added at 05:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:56 PM ----------

the numbers show that there are far many more believers in the existence of Jesus Christ as the Son of God

Jews have traditionally seen Jesus as one of a number of false messiahs who have appeared throughout history.<SUP id=cite_ref-0 class=reference>[1]</SUP> Jesus is viewed as having been the most influential, and consequently the most damaging, of all false messiahs.<SUP id=cite_ref-1 class=reference>[2]</SUP> However, since the general Jewish belief is that the Messiah has not yet come and that the Messianic Age is not yet present, the total rejection of Jesus as either messiah or deity in Judaism has never been a central issue for Judaism. At the heart of Judaism are the Torah, its commandments, the Tanakh, and ethical monotheism such as in the Shema — all of which predated Jesus.
Judaism has never accepted any of the claimed fulfillments of prophecy that Christianity attributes to Jesus. Judaism also forbids the worship of a person as a form of idolatry, since the central belief of Judaism is the absolute unity and singularity of God.<SUP id=cite_ref-2 class=reference>[3]</SUP><SUP id=cite_ref-incompat_3-0 class=reference>[4]</SUP>

Both jews and christians cant both be right.........but they can both be wrong

If both examples are mythology and not reality.....then thats the answer that fits
and that comparrison is a simplistic one, you could add every other major and minor religion to that equation and get the same result, they cant all be right.... they can all be wrong

 

[Frank Stalter]

There is a rampant idea amongst believers that all skeptics have a dark agenda to hide the truth of paranormal claims at all costs. For instance, some particularly dense believers here suggested that I get paid (by the big money skeptical cabal ?) to be here on these forums.

One of the most prominent skeptics, Joe Nickell, recently outlined his methods and rationale and I would challenge anyone to listen to Joe's approach and then claim that all skeptics aren't interested in the evidence but only in debunking.

Joe Nickell - The Other Side | Point of Inquiry

I realize that I am about 50 times more intolerant than Joe, and I suspect that I am unlikely to get much better. I think I get this from dealing with believers day after day (each of them repeating the same logical fallacies over and over and over) and a congenital refusal to suffer fools gladly. Nonetheless, Joe's approach is something I aspire to.

Lance

Lance is Back!

 

[Trajanus]

You might only be joking here, but what Lancemoody says is 110% correct. Nearly Everyone in this forum is so quick to jump on the bandwagon and scream forth the E.T. obviousness of each and every situation, yet when a skeptic uses logic to show it could just as easily be a terrestrial mirage, or something non E.T., "ohhhhhhh then their deranged or just don't understand, or are far off of what the truth really is."

That's absurd. It should be obvious to anyone who really reads messages here that paracast posters tend to be very skeptical of many claims, by Mieier and a host of others.

---------- Post added at 11:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:17 AM ----------

Personally i dont see the equation as balanced, there is good evidence that jesus never existed and the "story" is just a rehash of earlier solar mythology..

Well, most scholars don't go so far as to say he never existed. But there's no doubt that the gospels are loaded with lies and inventions e.g. he was born in bethlehem. The prophet micah had foretold that the king of the jews would be born there so matthew and luke made up stories to get him born there--but the stories are inconsistent and have historical implausibilities as erhman noted.

I'm always suspect of "skeptics" who knock the "believers" who are themselves believers in something with not a shred of proof as to its being real
I'm always amused when people who insist jesus is real, that god lives in heaven, and that when they die the lord will take them there to live, criticise those who think the evidence that UFO's are real is valid.

Couldn't agree more. A perfectly rational idea with considerable evidence is ridiculed, often by the same people who accept out and out lunacy like "I am the living bread..."

I dont think anyone who believes god and jesus are real, can claim to be neutral skeptics

Anyone who believes they're real is in no position to pass judgment, period.

 

[tyder001]

Which brings me to my next point skeptics are a valuable part of this field when applied on a case by case basis, hoaxing is rampant we all know that, its when skepticism is applied generically to the entire genre and not individual cases that its value is lost

I am skeptical of most things. Even skeptical of my own beliefs. Only madmen/women and zealots never question themselves. But, one problem I have with skeptical groups (such as the one linked to talk about Joe Nickel is this. They apply the term "Pseudoscience" to everything that doesn't fit into their worldview. A true skeptic doesn't say PSI research and N.D.E. research and even Holistic healing or South American "Psychic" surgeon is "Pseudo" They question on a case by case basis and attempt to bring scientific logic and common sense and also a hands on experience to the case. Not saying that some or mayby all of the above doens't fall into the catagory of "Pseudo" once in a while. Just saying that to already apply a broad label and then call yourself a skeptic is the same as Pat Robertson or Oral Robers saying they are going to sturdy the merits of Buddism. Guess what? I can tell ya what they will find with not supernatural help at all. Same with hard core "skeptics." Again, I have not changed sides on this issue. I still don't believe in E.T. but just saying that "skeptics" and "believers" all fall prey to the same kind of personal bias.

 

[trainedobserver]

Does the UFO Phenomenon deserve study? Can the UFO Phenomenon be studied?

I think the answer to both questions is yes although I believe a major rethinking of and discarding of much of what we think we know about the phenomena needs to be done. Unfortunately it is often difficult to differentiate or divorce the phenomena from the people involved in reporting and studying it. An exception to this seems to be efforts like Project Hessdalen.

I think the tying of the ET and god(s) question together is a natural thing to do as both are attempts to describe something outside of the (common?) experiential domain. It seems like they are both questions whose answers lie outside of our subset and in the larger superset where the answers remain unobtainable to any one subset. Having E.T. or a god show up doesn't answer the question as learning anything other than what they choose to reveal about themselves would be problematic rendering any real trust or true understanding of them unobtainable through rational means. We may one day have undeniable contact with an extra-terrestrial civilization but what we actually will come to know about who they are and what their motivations and intentions may be will be as difficult or more so than finding them seems to us now.

 

[RJHark00]

I think there is a question here, and that is, can E.T.and God coexist? Or ironically enough are they nonexistent?

Given our current level of knowledge they probably can coexist but this is predicated on the fact that we really don't know much about either. It certainly stands to reason that ET's exist, and I believe they do but, IMO, it's a very large leap to suggest that the overwhelming probability of ET's existence equates to having proof ET has/is visited/visiting. To my mind, it's sort of like accepting that Jesus of Nazareth was most likely a real person but not going so far as to believe that it went down exactly as described in the Bible -- extremely unlikely. There is (and was) an entire spectrum of belief.

I don't mean exactly to "equate" religion and ufology but there's a really fascinating thing going on here! Whether you believe one over the other or neither or both is dependent on what you find convincing as evidence and have faith in; I'm only trying to illustrate that there are a lot of parallels in their adoption and reorganization of a preexisting mythos.

As an aside, I can understand a certain hostility towards Christianity because it's the dominant paradigm in the U.S. and U.K. and we're all confronted with people who "know" all the answers because the Bible told them so. I really don't see that mindset going on in these forums, and I promise that Christians who have reasoned through their beliefs recognize that they are making faith claims. Faith is meant to be challenged and questioned or it becomes robotic belief. There certainly are people like this out there, but they aren't worth getting exercised over.

 

[PararealitySaint]

So it's okay for you to have "faith" in some supernatural, mystical being with superman like powers who craves your undying love and devotion to him amd him only but anyone who has "faith" that we are being visited by ET is relegated to being a "Mork wannabe"?
I thought that your "god" taught acceptance and tolerance. Insulting humor and sweeping, ignorant pronouncements regarding the majority of forumites doesn't sound like the actions of a kind, gentle and god fearing person. Maybe you had been abducted by aliens when he was teaching that.

Thank you for your acceptance that it is OK to have "faith in some supernatural, mystical being", and I am very glad to see you accept the Lord Jesus Christ as this form of entity without having to believe.

To accept an untruth and call it truth would be just as bad as disavowing what I know to be the only answer and yet denying it to suffice the Demons which lead others to fall short of what will save them some day. By using the term "Mork Wannabe", I am confirming the truth and doing the very best I possibly can to provide those taking the time to read the forum a true title of this fallacy. Why would you want to deny the truth and the entitlement so deserving of a misbegotten tribe of people who would rather make up false Gods for the sake of some misguided justification, then to finally let go and accept that which will actually save them from eternal damnation some day?

Kind, Gentle and God Fearing as The Lord's teaching professes to follow, but also truthful and always willing to enlighten a path, which sometimes hurts and isn't all that easy to read or to hear. There seems to be this misnomer which has survived the works of Jesus that he was in some way this docile vagabond who just went from door to door willing to accept any and all sin as if it was something he didn't have to care about or change....In reality, he did the exact opposite and confronted the Demons in every area they hid, sometimes commanding the "names" as a form of binding to weed them out and send them forth from those who were possessed.

It wasn't this all accepting God which Jesus meant when he went amongst them....It was an all accepting God which was there as long as those who "accepted him" were willing to work on their lives and come back into his fold. In fact, the Apostles were told to "dust of their robes" when they entered a city in which they found dissension to the extent that none would listen or give them quarter.

Again, thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt and understanding my prayer for you and for all those who might come under the classification of "Mork Wannabes" who might sometimes supplement Jesus and his love of them for something else.

Lastly, please do not mistaken "skepticism" for "religious" faith. I can easily allow for skepticism as an "initial" platform and then conclude "non belief" as an end result. I assure you I wasn't closed to the idea of E.T.'s involvement on this earth originally. It took some time to see the mistake I had made.

---------- Post added at 11:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 AM ----------

That's absurd. It should be obvious to anyone who really reads messages here that paracast posters tend to be very skeptical of many claims, by Mieier and a host of others.

LOL! Oh there are many who are skeptical on this forum, but that in no way hides the fact that there are many, yourself included, who can't wait to jump on the "Mork Bandwagon" as soon as the opportunity presents itself. Some aren't as obvious as you, and actually tend to propose "evidence" to back up their claims for E.T. and this ridiculous notion that even if they exist they would care about human beings, but please don't sit there and actually attempt to tell those in this forum that proponents of E.T. are in the minority here.

That would be like saying that you really are a Mars Crossing asteroid with no sentience whatsoever....hmmmm.

 

[Trajanus]

I only said that posters here tend to be skeptical of many specific claims. But it does seem that "proponents of ET" in the sense of being certain of it, are a minority.

 

[PararealitySaint]

I only said that posters here tend to be skeptical of many specific claims. But it does seem that "proponents of ET" in the sense of being certain of it, are a minority.

And then we add "specific" and "certain" and now it fits.

Good job.

 

[Trajanus]

And then we add "specific" and "certain" and now it fits.

"Specific" was implied by what I wrote before--skeptical of claims like those of Meier.

 

[mike]

The thing is religions are at their core creation myths
Myth and reality are incompatable
If history serves as an example religious devotees are not going to be able to handle an ET reality.
Galileo ended up under house arrest when his version of reality conflicted wuth the prevailing myth of his day.
Darwins evolution theory met with a similiar reaction when it conflicted with the religious creation myth, to the point where creation myth vs evolution reality is still argued today.
In this matter we have access to the same source material as Darwin and its still rejected by many because it exposes their cherished beliefs as myth.
If ET were to expose Themselves tomorrow, and and convey their version of reality it too would conflict with local creation myths , with the added disadvantage of us not having access to the source data as we did with darwins work. we would have to take their word for it.
It would be akin to going into a kindergarten/child care centre and exposing the reality santa claus is a myth, why bother when history shows they will mature in their own time and learn the truth without the trauma that an early disclosure would produce.
One could in fact make a coherant case that the reason they remain elusive is because of the immature myth structure thats still very much a part of the planetary mindset.
Christianity is not just a creation myth, its a creation myth with an imbedded re-creation myth inside. ie Noah.
The evidence this "story" is just that is overwhelming. to house the avian species alone would have required a boat far larger than the dimensions quoted in the myth, let alone every other animal as well, not to mention the massive amount of feed that would have been required.
There are over 10,000 species of birds, two of each is 20,000 birds in one boat plus a shipload of feed

How many species of animals are there ?
Estimates range from 10 to 100 Million. About 1.8 Million have been given scientific names.
Even two of each of the 1.8 million given scientific names is 3.6 million animals on the one boat........
Six people would not be able to shovel up the poo let alone feed them all....
Dont even start me on the insects......

Further Noah would have to have dropped off those animals native to africa then moved on and dropped of those native to Australia, then down to new zealand to drop off the giant moa bird, letting the Dodo off at Mauritius on the way....... the list goes on
The reality cannot fit inside this myth
And then we have the six human survivors noah and his family, from which we are expected to believe the african races, the asian races the polynesian and indian races all sprang from in a space of time woefully inadeqate for the current reality
The Australian Aboriginal has been there for over 40,000 years..........
Again the reality wont logically fit inside the myth.
Reality is fact, myth is fiction.

The evidence is clear that this re-creation myth imbedded in the perfect word of god, is a fiction
Yet despite this evidence the obvious facts, ppl like the saint are happy to jump on this mythological bandwagon, and then lecture us about our own views.

The local news is reporting religious intolerance and associated violence is on the rise in indonesia, with graphic footage of a man being beaten to a bloody corpse with poles and large rocks.
Can you imagine how that must look to an ET onlooker ?, believing a myth despite the obvious evidence is one thing, but to express that belief with violence........ how primative our mindsets must seem
If a father with ten children were to find 9 of them had been bad, and decided that in order to forgive them he should torture and beat his only good son..... nail him to a plank and then finish him off with a spear we would call that father a monster, but when this same scenario is ascribed to a kind and loving mythological deity, some see this as a good thing, a sign of hope and source of joy......
What a quagmire on delusional contradictions and insanity we must seem

Bit by bit we ourselves are desconstructing these silly myths and replacing them with knowledge and reality, yet still they linger on here.
An ET reality will never "fit" inside our local myth models, better (and safer) to wait until we mature in our own time before saying hello