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Fascinating Old Chronoscopes - 1950's

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Will not happen as todays the capture of filmed UFO have completely been muddy by technology of internet or photographic programs what a way to mix the field of getting the golden goose. Those old films are the key in the eyes of the witness and body control of the mass blanket of censorship was not as complete as today is seems. snoopers on every website and gate keepers at ever keyboard stroke its Orwellian frame work was in place by the end of Vietnam War. If some folks out there had access to the footage of the 1940s cases prior to Roswell which were in colour most likely destroyed or held in deepest underground basement.
 
Earlier I posted some info on current, present-day anomalies seen from space - which really interests me but I'm no expert on cameras in space and the possible scrubbing of truth in those videos, so I deleted it.

As innocent and 'pure' as the 1950's videos come across there is a significant back-story, informing why people were willing to run with the idea of saucers. There was significant background static. I am always fascinated as to why we think the way we do - and the very phenomenon of flying saucers is interesting - so I started looking around: where does this idea come from? Curiously, the idea of flying saucers was not born whole in the late 40's with the pilot Arnold. It's a bit more complicated than that. What follows is what I have found - and if others have any more of the history, please share.

First off, I have to cite the occult classic "A Dweller on Two Planets" from the late 1800's - 1894 - before the Wright Brothers - an apparently 'channeled' piece of writing with many seminal ideas that have impacted thinking in certain quarters across the century-plus. The story takes place in Atlantis where flying saucer-like aerial machines are described.

Here is a site that gives a fairly decent run-down of the idea of saucers: LINK: The Lost Civilization of Atlantis Be sure to look at the pictures supplied in the article that are from the book (I am pretty sure). In every respect we are looking at a nearly exact rendering of the saucer descriptions in the 1950's and beyond.

TEXT: "Atlantean Flying Machines: The world's earliest accounts of flying "machines" had been mentioned in the ancient texts from India called the Vedas (Hindu poems), especially in the Mahábhárata, Bhágavata Purána and Rámáyana, by the name of "Vimana" (in some modern Indian languages the word for "aircraft"), These craft could even travel in space as there is the mention of a battle on the moon between two craft. They were described in various shapes and sizes: cigar shaped, blimp-like, saucer-shaped, triangular and double-decked. (See: www.hinduwisdom.info and Wikipedia.)

"The book: "A Dweller on Two Planets" (1894), describes a certain Atlantean cigar-shaped flying machine which resembles a modern passenger aircraft, though without wings and a tail. From its descriptions, it doesn't rely on aero-dynamic forces, but instead uses the forces that could be considered gravitational/anti-gravitational. This flying machine is called a "vailx", and is also mentioned in the ancient Sanskrit texts from India as "vailix" ("vailixi" in plural form) as the flying craft of the Ashvins (gods). It is said that when the 18 year old author of "A Dweller on Two Planets" channeled this information, he could impossibly have known of these ancient Sanskrit texts. Also, besides some early experimentations, airplanes wouldn't been invented until the year 1899, at the time when the American Wright Brothers designed their first aircraft: a small biplane glider flown as a kite.

"Quoting from page 75 of the book "A Dweller on Two Planets": "Our vailx was of the middle traffic−size, these vessels being made in four standard lengths: number one, about twenty−five feet; number two, eighty feet; number three, something like one hundred and fifty−five feet, while the largest was yet two hundred feet longer than the third size. These long spindles were in fact round, hollow needles of aluminum, formed of an outer and an inner shell between which were many thousands of double T braces, an arrangement productive of intense rigidity and strength. All the partitions made other braces of additional resistant force. From amidships the vessels tapered toward either end to sharp points. Most vailxi were provided with an arrangement allowing, when desired, an open promenade deck at one end. Windows of crystal, of enormous resistant strength, were in rows like portholes along the sides, a few on top, and others set in the floor, thus affording a view in all directions." "


The above article references another writer in 1896 who describes the flying machines (before the Wright Brothers) and also quotes Edgar Cayce's description of Atlantean flying machines that went under the water as well as in the air.

Nikola Tesla, a genuine one-of-a-kind genius, has become the source of many legends - and one of them is Otis T. Carr, who apparently knew Tesla and claimed to have received technology from him. In the 1950's he was trying to build a saucer based on Tesla's ideas. The story becomes very murky.

Here is Wikipedia on Otis T. Curtis (and I am not a fan of Wikipedia - it has many problems and this particular article reads as having a clear bias. The article also reads very sloppy, almost gossipy, so it's hard to say what is really true given what is stated elsewhere): Otis T. Carr - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please note that they indicate Carr went to prison in the Wiki article - but not in this article, on Ralph Ring, an associate of Carr. This article has a reverse bias: Project Camelot | Ralph Ring and Otis Carr

There is no mention of any prison time, and clearly places Carr in the position of the victim.

Here is the YouTube interview of Ralph Ring:


The point of all this is: there is a lineage of saucer lore going back at least 60 years from the time of the 1950's and it's the background static on the 1950's videos. Recall that in the 1956 documentary with the Montana and Utah films, the journalist Chop meets up with a German scientist who meaningfully indicates that the flying saucers should be taken seriously. What is the backstory on that? I know what it would be now - I've heard of the idea that the Nazi's were working with disk-shaped flying objects - but that doesn't mean that the advice of the 'wise old German scientist' had the same background significance then.

It's an impossibly complex phenomenon. Even Jung commented upon it and had his ideas in his book "Flying Saucers: A Modern Myth of Things seen in the Skies". From Amazon: Jung states: "In the threatening situation of the world today, when people are beginning to see that everything is at stake, the projection-creating fantasy soars beyond the realm of earthly organizations and powers into the heavens, into interstellar space, where the rulers of human fate, the gods, once had their abode in the planets.... Even people who would never have thought that a religious problem could be a serious matter that concerned them personally are beginning to ask themselves fundamental questions. Under these circumstances it would not be at all surprising if those sections of the community who ask themselves nothing were visited by `visions,' by a widespread myth seriously believed in by some and rejected as absurd by others."--C. G. Jung, in Flying Saucers

Jung's primary concern in Flying Saucers is not with the reality or unreality of UFOs but with their psychic aspect. Rather than speculate about their possible nature and extraterrestrial origin as alleged spacecraft, he asks what it may signify that these phenomena, whether real or imagined, are seen in such numbers just at a time when humankind is menaced as never before in history. The UFOs represent, in Jung's phrase, "a modern myth." "

Thing is - the flying saucer was an idea existent before the 1950's.

But one Amazon review is very insightful, beginning: ""Flying Saucers" is controversial psychoanalyst C.G. Jung's attempt to tackle the UFO phenomenon. The first English edition was published in 1959. In many ways, Jung's explanation is weirder than the actual phenomenon being explained!" And goes on to describe the quasi-religious aspect of the ufo phenomenon.

In the end, I'm starting to think that the idea of ufos is a Theosophical 'plant'. :D No matter how you go, one finds the path leading to Madam Blavatsky! Ha! :rolleyes:
 
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"The book: "A Dweller on Two Planets" (1894), describes a certain Atlantean cigar-shaped flying machine which resembles a modern passenger aircraft, though without wings and a tail. From its descriptions, it doesn't rely on aero-dynamic forces, but instead uses the forces that could be considered gravitational/anti-gravitational. This flying machine is called a "vailx", and is also mentioned in the ancient Sanskrit texts from India as "vailix" ("vailixi" in plural form) as the flying craft of the Ashvins (gods). ...

"Our vailx was of the middle traffic−size, these vessels being made in four standard lengths: number one, about twenty−five feet; number two, eighty feet; number three, something like one hundred and fifty−five feet, while the largest was yet two hundred feet longer than the third size. These long spindles were in fact round, hollow needles of aluminum, formed of an outer and an inner shell between which were many thousands of double T braces, an arrangement productive of intense rigidity and strength. All the partitions made other braces of additional resistant force. From amidships the vessels tapered toward either end to sharp points. Most vailxi were provided with an arrangement allowing, when desired, an open promenade deck at one end. Windows of crystal, of enormous resistant strength, were in rows like portholes along the sides, a few on top, and others set in the floor, thus affording a view in all directions."
The Chiles-Whitted UFO encounter occurred on July 24, 1948 when two American commercial pilots reported that their Douglas DC-3 had nearly collided with a strange torpedo shaped object flying near them.

Both men described the object as cigar- or torpedo-shaped, about 100 feet in length, and about three times the diameter of a B-29 bomber. The "fuselage" was entirely smooth, with no wings, projections or fins. A bright red-orange exhaust was emanating from the object's rear, and was more orange at the outer edges of the exhaust, but grew redder when it rose in altitude. The exhaust extended approximately 30 to 50 feet behind the object. They heard no sound from the object as it sped past the DC-3.

Perhaps most intriguingly, the witnesses asserted that the object had what appeared to be two rows of rectangular "windows." A few weeks after the sighting, Chiles was to write that "there were two rows of windows, which indicated an upper and lower deck, from inside these windows a very bright light was glowing. Underneath the ship there was a blue glow of light." (Clark, 182) The light from the object was so bright that both men were blinded by its intensity for a few seconds.

There were only a few differences in the observations of the two men: Chiles thought he observed a conical shape at the object's nose that was somewhat similar to a radar pole, and he described a glassy window at the object's front that was somewhat similar to a cockpit window. Whitted thought the object was slightly further away than Chiles described, and he did not see the cockpit-like "windshield" or the "radar pole" at the object's nose. Chiles recalled the "exhaust" as being less intense, and not flaring out as much as Whitted observed.
Quite remarkable. There was at least one other witness as well: "One of the witnesses was Walter Massey, a ground-crew chief at Robins Air Force Base in Georgia, about 150 miles from Montgomery; he claimed to have seen a very similar object about an hour before Chiles and Whitted's encounter. Like the pilots, he said it was a cylindrical object that seemed to be two or three times larger than a B-29 "with a long stream of fire coming out the tail end … I noticed a faint glow on the belly of the wingless object."

Thanks for sharing all this documentation Tyger!
 
Ooops - as I knew might happen, I am deviating from my timeframe. Here's a good one from the 1960's. But note the change in rationale. Very different 'feel'.

1966 CBS REPORTS UFO Friend Foe Or Fantasy?

TEXT: "Excellent program from 1966. Features J Allen Hynek & Donald Keyhoe."

This is a link to the entire program - the above is only the first 7 or 8 minutes. This is the full hour program. The old mid-60's commercials are left in - one is about the IBM Computer's uses in education. Very different 'feel' from the chromoscopes of the early 50's. The cultural change is significant.

UFO FRIEND FOE OR FANTASY 1966

TEXT: "CBS Reports take a look at the UFO subject in the 1960s"


WOW these videos are really, really interesting, I had one of the most vivid and "real"dreams I have ever had after watching a few of them!

It really is a small world! I happen to know somebody that worked with "Charles Harvard Gibbs-Smith" I will be asking lots of questions of that person and I will post the results here, because until I had seen this video I had never heard of "Charles Harvard Gibbs-Smith" but he seems like a fascinating person!

Thanks again for sharing these videos.

Best wishes, Harry.
 
WOW these videos are really, really interesting, I had one of the most vivid and "real"dreams I have ever had after watching a few of them!
Anything relevant? You've got me curious - vivid how - past life recall? :D
It really is a small world! I happen to know somebody that worked with "Charles Harvard Gibbs-Smith" I will be asking lots of questions of that person and I will post the results here, because until I had seen this video I had never heard of "Charles Harvard Gibbs-Smith" but he seems like a fascinating person!
Look forward to your reports. :cool:
Thanks again for sharing these videos.

Best wishes, Harry.
You are very welcome, Harry. :) I'm glad that there are others who are enjoying them. Wish there were more.
 
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yeah its good innit soupie, i think the scientist was a depiction of Wernher von Braun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Good call - but look at this.

LONGINES CHRONOSCOPE WITH DR. WILLY LEY

TEXT: "LONGINES CHRONOSCOPE WITH DR. WILLY LEY - National Archives and Records Administration 1952-08-04 - ARC Identifier 95772 / Local Identifier LW-LW-124 - TELEVISION INTERVIEW: William Bradford Huie and Henry Hazlitt talk to Dr. Willy Ley, scientist and author of "Rockets, Missiles and Space Travel," on flying saucers. DVD copied by IASL Master Scanner Katie Filbert."

TEXT: "Willy Ley (October 2, 1906 - June 24, 1969) was a German-American science writer and space advocate who helped popularize rocketry and spaceflight in both Germany and the United States. The crater Ley on the far side of the Moon is named in his honor.

'Ley grew up in his native Berlin, and studied astronomy, physics, zoology, and paleontology at the University of Berlin. He became interested in spaceflight after reading Hermann Oberth's book Die Rakete zu den Planetenräumen ("By Rocket into Interplanetary Space"). After publishing Die Fahrt ins Weltall ("Travel in Outer Space") in 1926, Ley became one of the first members of Germany's amateur rocket group, the Verein für Raumschiffahrt (VfR - "Spaceflight Society") in 1927 and wrote extensively for its journal, Die Rakete ("The Rocket"). With Oberth, he also acted as a consultant on Fritz Lang's film Frau im Mond ("Woman in the Moon").

"In 1935, Ley left Nazi Germany for Great Britain and ultimately the United States. In 1936, he supervised operations of two rocket planes carrying mail at Greenwood Lake, NY. Ley was an avid reader of science fiction, and began publishing scientific articles in American science fiction magazines, beginning with "The Dawn of the Conquest of Space" in the March 1937 issue of Astounding Stories. Ley had a regular science column called "For Your Information" in Galaxy Magazine from its premiere in October, 1950 until his death. He was a member of science fiction fandom as well, attending science fiction conventions, and was eventually a Guest of Honor at Philcon II, the 1953 World Science Fiction Convention.

"His book "Rockets - the Future of Travel Beyond the Stratosphere" (1944) describes the early rockets at VfR and more futuristic projects to reach the moon using a 3-stage rocket "as high as 1/3 of the Empire State Building" - a very good estimate of the height of the Saturn V rocket designed 20 years later. His works from the 1950s and '60s are regarded as classics of popular science and include The Conquest of Space 1949 (with Chesley Bonestell), The Conquest of the Moon (with Wernher von Braun and Fred Whipple, 1953), and Beyond the Solar System (1964). His book, Rockets, Missiles, and Space Travel, (1957) was cited in the Space Handbook: Astronautics and its Applications, a staff report of the Select Committee on Astronautics and Space Exploration of the U.S. House of Representatives, which provided non-technical information about spaceflight to U.S. policy makers. He also acted as science consultant for the Tom Corbett, Space Cadet series of children's science fiction books and TV series, as well as the 1959 feature film entitled "The Space Explorers." In the late 1950s, he also served as a consultant for Monogram models designing a range of space vehicles including the Orbital Rocket, Space Taxi Passenger Rocket and TV Orbiter. The kits included informational booklets on space travel written by Ley.

"Ley was best known for his books on rocketry and related topics, but he also wrote a number of books about animals. One notable book was Exotic Zoology (1959), which combined some of his older writings with new ones. This is of some interest to cryptozoology, as Ley discusses the Yeti and sea serpents, as well as reports of relict dinosaurs. The book's first section (Myth?) entertains the possibility that some legendary creatures (like the sirrush, the unicorn or the cyclops) might be based on actual animals (or misinterpretation of animals and/or their remains).

He was a member of the all-male literary banqueting club the Trap Door Spiders, which served as the basis of Isaac Asimov's fictional group of mystery solvers the Black Widowers.

"Ley died at the age of 62 on June 24, 1969 in his home in Jackson Heights, Queens, where he had lived with his family since the mid-1950s."
 
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One poster commented: "Ley didn't know what Tesla and von Braun were up to after he left the Rocket Society in New Mexico headed by Dr. Goddard in the 1930s. However Ley most likely made the Tesla ships after Von Braun came back in 1945."

Anyone know what this may mean? Tesla ships? Or is this poster scrambling the omelet?
 
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Yes, and I am implying that Ring is a bullshit artist.

Yes, and a very engaging one. I say always be wary of the engaging story-teller spilling the beans about events long ago in the past. Memories fade, few people alive to verify - easy enough to scramble. Especially when the 'facts' are very close to fictional memes. [When he mentioned placing his hand into the 'jello' - I flashed on 'The Philadelphia Experiment'.]
 
Yes, and a very engaging one. I say always be wary of the engaging story-teller spilling the beans about events long ago in the past. Memories fade, few people alive to verify - easy enough to scramble. Especially when the 'facts' are very close to fictional memes. [When he mentioned placing his hand into the 'jello' - I flashed on 'The Philadelphia Experiment'.]

Ralph seems like a nice enough guy, but I'm afraid he is a bald-faced liar. To say his story is implausible is being nice.
 
Can't help myself....:p Here is a 4'9" (in height) 14/15 year old Brenda Lee "Live in London (1959)" doing 'mazing things to 'Won't You Come Home, Bill Bailey". Indulge me......


TEXT: "This is from the "Oh Boy!" show on 4 April 1959. "Bill Bailey, Won't You Please Come Home" is from 1902. The authors could not have imagined what Brenda and saxophonist Red Price would do to it. I believe Brenda was the first to record "Hummin' The Blues Over You". Maybe the only one. Brenda, her mother and manager were in Paris finishing a six week engagement when Oh Boy! contacted them for this appearance."
 
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On a more subtle level, director Winston Jones pulls off a clever trick; he begins the film as a pure documentary, but he gradually modifies this approach and focuses on reporter Al Chop's personal involvement in the UFO investigation. Chop slowly changes from UFO skeptic to UFO believer.
i think need some help understanding the context of this film, why its arc is one of UFO believer conversion?! This film is right on the edge of the McCarthy era in America. Was the military's image one of kindly paternalism at the time?

"In 1952 Clarence Greene saw an object twisting in the sky. He got in contact with the US Air Force information officer Albert Chop who was in charge of UFO queries. Chop told Greene about the existence of footage of UFOs. Greene obtained the footage for the documentary." wiki cyclo paed ia

Clarence Green is a well known hollywood producer of the era who teams up with a film noir producer, gets a decent hired gun writer and hires an odd director, Winston Jones who only made one other mildly received drama and had limited Hollywood work experience. The project seems to be driven by Clarence in an age when UFO's were just starting to nuzzle into the soft shoulder of our culture and we just wrapped ourselves around its friendly/scary embrace.

It's an interesting movie that's like an odd prelude to all those Later movies that were supposed to get real footage from the air force and ever did. These films are definitely about a different kind of social dialogue about UFO's that is curious and innocent? Was that really the common tone of the times when it came to this subject matter or is this just one man's independent vision, just a guy putting his stamp on the phenomenon cuz he was moved?
 
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Astronaut Deke Slayton UFO Sighting 1952


The video below has an interesting narration that stresses that the public at the time - in the early 50's - was genuinely panicked about ufo's. It's possible that government and military saw themselves with a problem on many fronts - a public 'health issue' in the sense of how do you handle a public that is panicking when you have no ability to figure out what the phenomenon is? Consider how President Truman spoke in a most curious way - as though trying to calm with an affect of 'this is all normal, nothing unusual, happens all the time' - until it seems it was realized by someone(s) that rather than downplay one needed to simply not allow it to be reported or discussed.

Following this reasoning the lock-down and secrecy was initiated for the best of intentions (such usually is so imo) - yet it had other consequences, then.

UFO Case Review - The Washington D.C. Sightings, 1952

TEXT: "By 1952, the "flying saucer frenzy" that swept the North American continent had reached its apex. UFOs showed up in droves, and the Air Force was put under tremendous pressure to produce an explanation. The issue came to a head in the summer of 1952 when a pair of dramatic sightings over Washington D.C. triggered a media firestorm. The public reaction prompted the Air Force to develop new methods for dealing with unexplained sightings that would sacrifice scientific rigour in the service of dampening public interest. The Washington Incidents were some of the last sightings to make headlines before the jaws of government secrecy snapped shut on the question of UFOs."

The British view in the next link below: archival footage is interesting - especially the manner of one of the men at the time. Of particular note is the statement regarding the public panic around ufo's - there seems to have been a genuine panic taking place among the public regarding these reports.

Note the initial innocence around these phenomenon. The BBC - and the military itself - were as innocently fascinated, sending film crew to interview. Some very direct comments being made in this retrospective - very relevant to the clamp-down, the secrecy: that admitting that they didn't know what was going on in their own airspace - that they might not know what was going on and didn't have mastery or control of their own airspace - would send the wrong message in a time of the cold war. This seems very relevant. Plus - and this is a big one - they not knowing what it was - how could they be sure it might not have been something belonging to the Russians - they wouldn't know, and not knowing, it had to factor in as a possibility. One can see that the climate at the time - as the Cold war was ramping up - created a peculiar and perhaps unfortunate reaction, but also understandable.

A fascinating mention at approx 10:00 of Prince Philip being obsessed about ufo's at the time, and that he sent an equerry to meet with a stranger called Mr Janus who he concluded was from another planet. :confused: The interviewers suggest the guy was likely MI-5 and was basically rustling around to find out what the Prince/public knew - the conversation gets garbled in that veddy-veddy British way when everyone is talking over each other and agreeing - and ya can't figure out what they are saying. :rolleyes: We need a British translator!!!!!!

UFO sighting 1953. BBC follow up 50 years later.

TEXT: "Follow-up BBC feature to the 1953 sighting of a UFO by Terry Johnson (RAF pilot) and Geoff Smythe (RAF navigator) in 1953 featuring original BBC news footage."

Here is the original 1953 interview footage of the two RAF pilots -

UFO spotted by RAF pilot - November 1953
 
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These films are definitely about a different kind of social dialogue about UFO's that is curious and innocent?
While UFOs have been sighted throughout history, the 40's and 50's were the first time the phenomenon was viewed through the lense of scientific materialism. I think the tone was curiosity, innocence (there was no reason not to be), and real concern.
 
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The BBC - and the military itself - were as innocently fascinated, sending film crew to interview. Some very direct comments being made in this retrospective - very relevant to the clamp-down, the secrecy: that admitting that they didn't know what was going on in their own airspace - that they might not know what was going on and didn't have mastery or control of their own airspace - would send the wrong message in a time of the cold war. This seems very relevant.
Either factions of the US military were using experimental craft that the other US factions (remember, the US military was not always centralized, and even now, who knows how centralized it really is) and nations didn't know about, or Hastings is correct and "they're" here because of the nukes.

Yes, UFOs have been sighted throughout human history, but the uptick in the late 40's to the present means either: new man-made aircraft in the skies, or someone else visiting because of something that happened in the 40's. Or, more likely, it's both.
 
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Either factions of the US military were using experimental craft that the other US factions (remember, the US military was not always centralized, and even now, who knows how centralized it really is) and nations didn't know about, or Hastings is correct and "they're" here because of the nukes.

Yes, UFOs have been sighted throughout human history, but the uptick in the late 40's to the present means either: new man-made aircraft in the skies, or someone else visiting because of something that happened in the 40's. Or, more likely, it's both.

It's bandied about, of course, that the uptick was because of the ignition of a nuclear bomb in 1945 - and this 'caused' aliens-from-space to be interested.

Aliens-from-space was a meme already planted in the general consciousness - and not just the sic-fi geeky genre - with Orson Welles' 'War of the Worlds' radio broadcast.

However, Mr Ley, one of the scientists speaking in one of the chronoscopes, indicated that these phenomena were observed prior to the 40's. ('Foo Fighters' were pre-nuclear bomb, as well, in the early 40's). He indicated, however, that such reports were not named as 'flying anything' - and were confined to publications on meteorology, etc., and were discussed in other terms. No sources given, of course, but this becomes an interesting 'lead'. Wonder what the scientific views were in the 30's and 20's - where was the science going with it?

It makes sense that there would have been an uptick in the 40's since flight was becoming more general and commercialized - and there were a lot more pilots around due to WWII and the training received - more civilian pilots flying their own planes. What would be interesting is to scour the newspapers and general media for reports from pilots in the teens (WWI) and the 20's and 30's as air flight was becoming more and more popular. Was this phenomena always 'up there' happening - just no pilots to see it - so no pilots to draw anyone's attention to the skies in that way? It seems to have been mainly pilots reporting the phenomenon at first - with grounded people then coming up with landings and alien walkabouts.
 
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