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From The NY Times: The Pentagon's Secret UFO Program
- Thread starter IsaacKoi
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I listened to Elizondo on a cable TV news segment earlier today.
He came across as being totally oblivious to the state of previous UFO research by the U.S. government, which seems to put a damper on speculation that there was ever anything important to disclose. Certainly if crashed UFOs were recovered, would there even be a need for a research project of this sort?
He came across as being totally oblivious to the state of previous UFO research by the U.S. government, which seems to put a damper on speculation that there was ever anything important to disclose. Certainly if crashed UFOs were recovered, would there even be a need for a research project of this sort?
SRL+
Paranormal Adept
How is that possible, especially when he’s supposedly the DoD’s go-to guy in such matters?
Exactly. It's as if Project Blue Book and other alleged government UFO investigations barely or never existed.
Thomas R Morrison
Paranormal Adept
Your reading comprehension skills leave much to be desired: I specifically stated that gravitational field propulsion is the leading explanatory model for the performance characteristics of this class of reports, not that it's a certainty.
I agree. You've been spreading more unsubstantiated paranoid conspiracy rubbish in this thread than anyone, except perhaps Hollywood Tomfortas. Frankly I've wondered on several occasions whether you're both disinformation operatives, or simply horrifically cynical headcases.
Gene you've been involved in this field for decades, yet you still seem to be completely unaware of the extreme levels of compartmentalization within our military intelligence apparatus. Mr. Elizondo has said on multiple occasions in the media recently that this problem, which he refers to as "silos and stovepipes" (i.e. "small groups of isolated personnel who don't share their finding with others" and "the vertical structure of information gathering within specific compartmentalized programs") is one of the biggest obstacles to the military's understanding of this phenomenon and the national security risk that it represents.
There are certainly other programs, and perhaps myriad other programs, involved in government research into UAPs - most of which are probably completely unaware of the existence of the others. This excessive level of compartmentalization that got started during the Cold War, is now one of the greatest threats to our own national security, ironically, because various branches of government are oblivious to the actions and intelligence efforts of the others. It's all but certain that precisely this problem is why our security apparatus failed to prevent the 9/11 attacks. I doubt if anyone anywhere in the system is fully aware of everything going on within it, and sadly, that's how it is by design.
So you don't think that the Pentagon would've called him out on faking his credentials, if they were anything less than 100% legit? What a joke.
To respond to your last comment: If the government has loads of knowledge about UFOs already, and don't forget the possibility of possessing alien hardware, why would they need to spend $22 million on a new program with Bigelow's evident involvement? To mollify Senator Reid?
SRL+
Paranormal Adept
Paranoid, hardly.
No, as history has already taught some who have the ability to comprehend past UFO related coverups. More so, with their blessing.
However, this isn't to say that Elizondo was never employed by the DoD, as his resignation letter was allegedly presented to Knapp. So, where is it, and what other evidence is there of Elizondo's past employment, as inquiring minds would like to know.
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Thomas R Morrison
Paranormal Adept
I don't understand why you're having trouble with this concept Gene - you're a very intelligent man.
"Compartmentalization" means that classified intelligence programs are completely oblivious to the existence of the others - even other programs working on the same topics. In other words, as Usual Suspect previously pointed out, there is no single "government" to speak of. It's like a massive hydra, and each head has blinders on so it can't see the others. That's how the entire system is set up, and the higher the classification, the more strictly compartmentalized it is - the most highly classified programs are only known to the handful of heavily vetted officials directly working within that program.
So it's perfectly possible, even highly likely, that Sen. Reid was completely unaware of the existing programs involved with this topic. So he started one. Even if other programs existed that had the kinds of answers that he was interested in, he didn't have access to them because somebody in the DoD decided that he lacked the "need to know." By starting the AATIP, he became privy to its findings. But other programs could have, and probably do have, a wealth of research in this area and perhaps lots of material evidence as well.
So you're saying that the Pentagon released exactly the kind of military intelligence about exotic aerial devices that we've been clamoring for since the 1950s...but they faked the evidence...in an incredibly ineffective yet somehow diabolical new form of cover-up? Do you even listen to yourself? Crikes - I bet some of you people could find a nefarious conspiracy among a troop of Girl Scouts.
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Long and short, it's highly unlikely this new program has taught us anything new about UFOs. Period.
Yes, I know about "need to know" and all that stuff. And mollifying a powerful US senator.
Yes, I know about "need to know" and all that stuff. And mollifying a powerful US senator.
Thomas R Morrison
Paranormal Adept
Honestly I think that's a baseless assertion: the technological sophistication of our military intelligence gathering instrumentation (such as that sweet Raytheon ATFLIR camera system) have never had greater precision and diversity. And our understanding of the physical sciences has never been more apt to the challenge of understanding the operation of advanced anomalous devices in our airspace. Leslie Kean and George Knapp have been talking about the dozens of comprehensive reports issued by the AATIP over the last decade - I'm going to wait and see if those babies get released to the public, before I'm going to make any blanket statements about the effectuality or ineffectuality of this program, and frankly I think you should too. We haven't seen what they found yet. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if they've arrived at a viable physical explanation for the performance characteristics of this class of anomalous devices. But I'm dying to find out.
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Let's see what new stuff comes out of it, rather than the hopes and expectations.
Again, if we already have existing studies and evidence about UFOs, why was this project needed? Yes, I realize the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing, compartmentalization and all that, but the story is being treated as if there was nothing else. That's implied in your comments above.
The rest is speculation. Let's see how it fares once the initial publicity calms.
Again, if we already have existing studies and evidence about UFOs, why was this project needed? Yes, I realize the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing, compartmentalization and all that, but the story is being treated as if there was nothing else. That's implied in your comments above.
The rest is speculation. Let's see how it fares once the initial publicity calms.
wwkirk
Paranormal Adept
Oh i dont know 22 million seems about right for whats essentially an in-house news clipping service.
The depts primary brief was to collect and collate military reports for threat analysis.
And again i return to the potential plurality of the situation, Lets say for the sake of argument , 112 different species are known to be here. You'd still be on the lookout for species 113, 114, 115......... We could have ET hardware turn up tomorrow that they have never seen before. Which is entirely consistent with the program. collect and catalog and assess.
Even here on a finite planet, where we've had hundreds of years to catalog the species here..........
Top 10 New Species Discovered 2017
Apply this dynamic to the ET scenario.....................
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Thomas R Morrison
Paranormal Adept
Here’s Luis Elizondo’s appearance on MSNBC today. Listen to his response to Velshi’s question that begins at 5:17 – he states that in the last two years, they’d made significant progress understanding the advanced physics of how these devices work (which is why I’m dying to see the AATIP's technical reports):
In comparison to what?
This video interview is especially good [don't know if it's been linked here before; it's from ufochronicles.com]:
Pentagon UFO Study Focused on U.S. Military Encounters
Pentagon UFO Study Focused on U.S. Military Encounters
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
BTW, love the avatar
!
Randall
J. Randall Murphy
Interesting bit about how the religious community objected to the study of UFOs on the grounds that they think they're Satanic. We've come so far on one end of the scale, but despite living in one of the most technologically advanced nations on the planet, a sizable number of people still think like primitive tribes people.