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From The NY Times: The Pentagon's Secret UFO Program
- Thread starter IsaacKoi
- Start date
Free episodes:
SRL+
Paranormal Adept
The really cool part starts @ 22:51 with the alien stuff storage facilities.
For example from another source: "Raymond Szymanski believes the UFOs and aliens from the infamous 1947 Roswell incident were bought to the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base (WPAFB) in Dayton, Ohio for inspection and kept in secret tunnels." ... sounds reasonable, why not?
... and all this time I doubted Timothy Good in mentioning Eisenhower met with aliens @ Holloman.
Live & learn...(deep sigh) ...
In respecting Jacques Vallee, no one is infallible.
I was unaware that he bought into alien implants, while the metal being re-examined is from some prior event/wipe out.
One more time ... Scientists Weigh In On 'Alien Alloys' Stored in Las Vegas Hangars | Mysterious Universe
Irrespective of the four new elements added last year, I suppose we'll just have to wait it out on pins & needles.. or perish whilst waiting.
For example from another source: "Raymond Szymanski believes the UFOs and aliens from the infamous 1947 Roswell incident were bought to the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base (WPAFB) in Dayton, Ohio for inspection and kept in secret tunnels." ... sounds reasonable, why not?
... and all this time I doubted Timothy Good in mentioning Eisenhower met with aliens @ Holloman.
Live & learn...(deep sigh) ...
In respecting Jacques Vallee, no one is infallible.
I was unaware that he bought into alien implants, while the metal being re-examined is from some prior event/wipe out.
One more time ... Scientists Weigh In On 'Alien Alloys' Stored in Las Vegas Hangars | Mysterious Universe
Irrespective of the four new elements added last year, I suppose we'll just have to wait it out on pins & needles.. or perish whilst waiting.
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@KACTUS said: ↑
"the "government" is made up of a disparate and complex web of numerous depts, factions and interests. to assign The Government the capacity or will to propagate this elaborate shell-game to "direct our attention away from something" is unlikely. sometimes things are as they appear."
@marduk responded:
No. This interview with Grant Cameron and Steve Bassett is clarifying. Note Bassett's comments beginning one hour, three minutes, into the clip.
Note: also interesting recorded remarks here by Vallee regarding his work with implants and anomalous metals ejected from ufos.
"the "government" is made up of a disparate and complex web of numerous depts, factions and interests. to assign The Government the capacity or will to propagate this elaborate shell-game to "direct our attention away from something" is unlikely. sometimes things are as they appear."
@marduk responded:
No. This interview with Grant Cameron and Steve Bassett is clarifying. Note Bassett's comments beginning one hour, three minutes, into the clip.
Note: also interesting recorded remarks here by Vallee regarding his work with implants and anomalous metals ejected from ufos.
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Very good. Thanks for sharing this here.
ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM
Whittingham
No matter how much these folks jump up and down the official line will ignore them if it classified and they keep them waiting 100 years. Don't need disclosure folks have already seen and experienced unknown activity which modern day science can't explain yet. Not ignoring advance technology and Happy New Year all.
SRL+
Paranormal Adept
In preparation for an alien attack?
A moral imperative: Trump must enhance US missile defense
A moral imperative: Trump must enhance US missile defense
Flatwoods
Paranormal Maven
Just my own opinion here, but based on what I've read of the Cmdr. Fravor sighting, an invisible waterspout or whirlwind comes very close to explaining nearly everything he saw, especially if that waterspout managed to capture debris such as the fiberglass hull of an ocean wreck or something similar. That is, if we look at only the pilot's sighting and not the supposed FLIR1 image - and a careful reading of the Fighter Sweep article https://fightersweep.com/1460/x-files-edition/ indicates the FLIR1 image came from a subsequent sortie, not Fravor's flight. We have no indication any recorded media from Cmdr. Fravor's flight exists, so therefore we are left with an interesting UFO sighting that presents multiple possibilities, including weather phenomena.
Another point: Cmdr Fravor's wasn't the first plane to arrive on the scene. Here's a quote from the Fightersweep article:
As Cheeks flew over the spot he saw a disturbance on the surface of the ocean. A round section of turbulent water about 50-100 meters in diameter. It was the only area and type of what he called, “whitewater” describing that it looked as if there was something below the surface like a shoal or what he’d heard a ship sinking rapidly would look like.
He overflew the disturbance and circled back in the direction of Nimitz without ever seeing what caused the water to froth. As he turned away, which happened to be the moment the Super Hornets converged on the location, the whitewater cleared and the ocean surface returned to its smooth state. The spot of the previous disturbance was completely indiscernible.
Now please see the video below, which shows wind vortices created by aircraft passing overhead:
Could the first F-18 have actually caused a vortex resulting in the water disturbance?
Next, please read a quote from the article describing what Cmdr. Fravor saw:
"The first unusual indication Dave picked up was the area of whitewater on the surface that Cheeks was looking at over his shoulder as he flew away. He remembers thinking it was about the size of a 737 and maybe the contact they had been vectored on had been an airliner that had just crashed. He maneuvered his F-18 lower to get a better look. As he was descending through about 20K he was startled by the sight of a white object that was moving about just over the frothing water. It was all white, featureless, oblong and making minor lateral movements while staying at a consistent low altitude over the disk of turbulent water.
Dave put FASTEAGLE 02 into high cover passing through about 15K and she and her WSO witnessed the events from a perfect vantage point. Dave continued his dive lower towards the object, now also attempting to slave the radar through his HMCS to achieve a short range lock. No luck. His intention was to pass the object close aboard at about 350 kts, but as he got closer he noticed that the AAV had oriented one of its skinny ends towards him, as if, in his words, “It had just noticed us” and it was now pointing at them.
The AAV then began to rise from its hover. The object, which he would later describe as a while tic-tac, rose in right 2-circle flow about a mile cross-circle from Dave’s Hornet."
A wind vortex such as tornado or dust devil is shaped like a funnel, one that draws debris up inside. Imagine a piece of debris being sucked up from the ocean, hovering for a bit as the water in it drains, then traveling up inside the vortex in an expanding, circular path - similar to the behavior of the object in the Fravor sighting. I believe it's possible the first F-18 caused a wind vortex to form, which picked up a piece of debris that Cmdr. Fravor subsequently observed upon his arrival at the scene. Just my theory.
Another point: Cmdr Fravor's wasn't the first plane to arrive on the scene. Here's a quote from the Fightersweep article:
As Cheeks flew over the spot he saw a disturbance on the surface of the ocean. A round section of turbulent water about 50-100 meters in diameter. It was the only area and type of what he called, “whitewater” describing that it looked as if there was something below the surface like a shoal or what he’d heard a ship sinking rapidly would look like.
He overflew the disturbance and circled back in the direction of Nimitz without ever seeing what caused the water to froth. As he turned away, which happened to be the moment the Super Hornets converged on the location, the whitewater cleared and the ocean surface returned to its smooth state. The spot of the previous disturbance was completely indiscernible.
Now please see the video below, which shows wind vortices created by aircraft passing overhead:
Could the first F-18 have actually caused a vortex resulting in the water disturbance?
Next, please read a quote from the article describing what Cmdr. Fravor saw:
"The first unusual indication Dave picked up was the area of whitewater on the surface that Cheeks was looking at over his shoulder as he flew away. He remembers thinking it was about the size of a 737 and maybe the contact they had been vectored on had been an airliner that had just crashed. He maneuvered his F-18 lower to get a better look. As he was descending through about 20K he was startled by the sight of a white object that was moving about just over the frothing water. It was all white, featureless, oblong and making minor lateral movements while staying at a consistent low altitude over the disk of turbulent water.
Dave put FASTEAGLE 02 into high cover passing through about 15K and she and her WSO witnessed the events from a perfect vantage point. Dave continued his dive lower towards the object, now also attempting to slave the radar through his HMCS to achieve a short range lock. No luck. His intention was to pass the object close aboard at about 350 kts, but as he got closer he noticed that the AAV had oriented one of its skinny ends towards him, as if, in his words, “It had just noticed us” and it was now pointing at them.
The AAV then began to rise from its hover. The object, which he would later describe as a while tic-tac, rose in right 2-circle flow about a mile cross-circle from Dave’s Hornet."
A wind vortex such as tornado or dust devil is shaped like a funnel, one that draws debris up inside. Imagine a piece of debris being sucked up from the ocean, hovering for a bit as the water in it drains, then traveling up inside the vortex in an expanding, circular path - similar to the behavior of the object in the Fravor sighting. I believe it's possible the first F-18 caused a wind vortex to form, which picked up a piece of debris that Cmdr. Fravor subsequently observed upon his arrival at the scene. Just my theory.
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Hi all,
First of all, thank you all for making this thread such an interesting read and reason for me to join this forum. I had almost given up hope of finding such rational discussion when it comes to this topic.
I have a scientific worldview and don't believe in anything typically classified as supernatural or paranormal, but in my opinion investigation of unrecognized aerial phenomena and possibility of extraterrestrial life do not belong to those categories and should be a matter of serious scientific investigation. And oddly enough, for many scientists it is science when it comes to SETI or human space exploration, but the idea of someone reaching here instead of we reaching them seems somehow laughable. It's one of those rare instances when people I tend to look up to and side with suddenly make exceptions to the sort of logical thinking and communication they usually follow.
I believe I'm the type of person organizations like To The Stars should aim to convince. That is, I'm interested and open to the possibility of someone having reached us, and I hope we will find evidence for that, but my hopes don't determine my beliefs. Hence I can only say, I really don't know if we are alone or not. Something like that is probably a majority view, but most of the time we tend to see some sort of extremes in the media, and because of that the majority might want to, but feels uncomfortable to talk about it seriously, not realizing others feel the same.
My understanding of these recent developments is along the lines that a small amount of money was channeled for a (mostly subcontracted) small group for combing through archived material and interviewing eyewitnesses and so far they have basically managed to get through a couple of requests to declassify a couple of videos, of which at least one had already been leaked years ago to YouTube (and based on the horrid image quality, may be sourced from there, instead of original archives). So the main news so far is old news, that Nimitz case. But then again, before all this publicity, I wasn't aware of it, or at least I didn't have reason to take it seriously enough, even though I may have seen it somewhere. So for me at least, those old news are now a big deal, and getting them to the headlines to the extent they have has been a great achievement, although I also share the worry of them trading too much credibility for publicity, among other concerns.
It has also been once again a good lesson on how the media works these days, that is, mostly copying each other and following what larger publications are doing. Initially it seemed that most media opted for a somewhat safe angle of making news about government spending millions to something of questionable value, as if that drop in the ocean was somehow significant among all the other drops that go to waste, or worse. I believe that the media soon (or from the get-go) realized people are not really that interested about the money, but that enabled follow-ups to cover what credible media is not supposed to cover but actually interests most. It was mentioned somewhere that this was among the most popular stories NY Times has had in recent history. Just like the O'Hare incident was at the time the most read article Chicago Tribune had ever had on their site, if I recall.
At the moment I would single out O'Hare and Nimitz to my top 2 list, and I'm struggling to name a third, even though I have read about a whole lot other cases. They all just tend to fall apart or lack too much information. I'm not really interested in seeing yet another batch of lights or blobs in a video, there's enough of just those already. Even if they were the real deal, who could tell? And yes, for those two cases I mentioned the physical evidence is pretty much yet another blob and not even that for the other, but the real value imho is in the testimonies, even though it becomes a case about who you can trust.
I'm willing to accept that as far as physical evidence is concerned, it requires too much luck to get anything other than blobs. I reckon that an advanced ET craft most likely wouldn't have anybody inside (especially nothing biological), wouldn't lose nuts and bolts to be analyzed, and might not even have that much reason or will to land on somebody's lawn or to be seen in bright daylight. Pretty much the same if they were foreign spy tech. And even though most of us now carry high quality cameras in our pockets, as is so often pointed out, the vast majority of them can't zoom. We have just seen what the pretty much best available cameras can give us, even when airborne and able to follow their targets, and basically all we got was blobs.
Just look at sites like Metabunk mentioned before or those in the media who want to laugh these things off. They tend to pick low-hanging fruit like that unrelated party balloon or make general statements about how most cases can be explained, as if that wasn't already common knowledge. But have you seen any of those actually trying to explain what those pilots said they saw (on camera in multiple interviews, with their own names and faces) in that Nimitz case? Can it be done without stating they have lied, hallucinated or otherwise proven to be not quite the type of persons you would want to have flying around with weapons? That's the kind of case I want to see, something I cannot explain, and for which ET could seem like the best available explanation, at least if we actually knew they could have been there.
I really hope Elizondo and others would concentrate on giving us all the possible information from the few best cases and not once again try to provide quantity instead of quality. We have now one good case that gives visibility and credibility for the topic, add a couple of bad ones (like that mystery alloy deal will probably be), and it's all lost again. When O'Hare hit the news, I considered it as an excellent case that could actually be properly investigated. An object in restricted airspace, lots of observers, including airport personnel and pilots, reportedly with cameras, initial FAA denial that was proven to be false, recent event with wide news coverage, and easily accessible major US city and airport for reporters and researchers. I thought back then, that if this story is just left to dry up without proper investigation, I have had enough of this subject. And that's pretty much what happened. It's not only that the expected pictures never materialized, few seemed to actually try to contact eyewitnesses and collect the data while it was in recent memory. Might be that I'm just not aware of all the efforts, but that's the way it has looked like from what I have seen. I really hope this time the opportunities all this media attention brings are properly maximized, especially the willingness of Nimitz crew to talk about those events publicly.
First of all, thank you all for making this thread such an interesting read and reason for me to join this forum. I had almost given up hope of finding such rational discussion when it comes to this topic.
I have a scientific worldview and don't believe in anything typically classified as supernatural or paranormal, but in my opinion investigation of unrecognized aerial phenomena and possibility of extraterrestrial life do not belong to those categories and should be a matter of serious scientific investigation. And oddly enough, for many scientists it is science when it comes to SETI or human space exploration, but the idea of someone reaching here instead of we reaching them seems somehow laughable. It's one of those rare instances when people I tend to look up to and side with suddenly make exceptions to the sort of logical thinking and communication they usually follow.
I believe I'm the type of person organizations like To The Stars should aim to convince. That is, I'm interested and open to the possibility of someone having reached us, and I hope we will find evidence for that, but my hopes don't determine my beliefs. Hence I can only say, I really don't know if we are alone or not. Something like that is probably a majority view, but most of the time we tend to see some sort of extremes in the media, and because of that the majority might want to, but feels uncomfortable to talk about it seriously, not realizing others feel the same.
My understanding of these recent developments is along the lines that a small amount of money was channeled for a (mostly subcontracted) small group for combing through archived material and interviewing eyewitnesses and so far they have basically managed to get through a couple of requests to declassify a couple of videos, of which at least one had already been leaked years ago to YouTube (and based on the horrid image quality, may be sourced from there, instead of original archives). So the main news so far is old news, that Nimitz case. But then again, before all this publicity, I wasn't aware of it, or at least I didn't have reason to take it seriously enough, even though I may have seen it somewhere. So for me at least, those old news are now a big deal, and getting them to the headlines to the extent they have has been a great achievement, although I also share the worry of them trading too much credibility for publicity, among other concerns.
It has also been once again a good lesson on how the media works these days, that is, mostly copying each other and following what larger publications are doing. Initially it seemed that most media opted for a somewhat safe angle of making news about government spending millions to something of questionable value, as if that drop in the ocean was somehow significant among all the other drops that go to waste, or worse. I believe that the media soon (or from the get-go) realized people are not really that interested about the money, but that enabled follow-ups to cover what credible media is not supposed to cover but actually interests most. It was mentioned somewhere that this was among the most popular stories NY Times has had in recent history. Just like the O'Hare incident was at the time the most read article Chicago Tribune had ever had on their site, if I recall.
At the moment I would single out O'Hare and Nimitz to my top 2 list, and I'm struggling to name a third, even though I have read about a whole lot other cases. They all just tend to fall apart or lack too much information. I'm not really interested in seeing yet another batch of lights or blobs in a video, there's enough of just those already. Even if they were the real deal, who could tell? And yes, for those two cases I mentioned the physical evidence is pretty much yet another blob and not even that for the other, but the real value imho is in the testimonies, even though it becomes a case about who you can trust.
I'm willing to accept that as far as physical evidence is concerned, it requires too much luck to get anything other than blobs. I reckon that an advanced ET craft most likely wouldn't have anybody inside (especially nothing biological), wouldn't lose nuts and bolts to be analyzed, and might not even have that much reason or will to land on somebody's lawn or to be seen in bright daylight. Pretty much the same if they were foreign spy tech. And even though most of us now carry high quality cameras in our pockets, as is so often pointed out, the vast majority of them can't zoom. We have just seen what the pretty much best available cameras can give us, even when airborne and able to follow their targets, and basically all we got was blobs.
Just look at sites like Metabunk mentioned before or those in the media who want to laugh these things off. They tend to pick low-hanging fruit like that unrelated party balloon or make general statements about how most cases can be explained, as if that wasn't already common knowledge. But have you seen any of those actually trying to explain what those pilots said they saw (on camera in multiple interviews, with their own names and faces) in that Nimitz case? Can it be done without stating they have lied, hallucinated or otherwise proven to be not quite the type of persons you would want to have flying around with weapons? That's the kind of case I want to see, something I cannot explain, and for which ET could seem like the best available explanation, at least if we actually knew they could have been there.
I really hope Elizondo and others would concentrate on giving us all the possible information from the few best cases and not once again try to provide quantity instead of quality. We have now one good case that gives visibility and credibility for the topic, add a couple of bad ones (like that mystery alloy deal will probably be), and it's all lost again. When O'Hare hit the news, I considered it as an excellent case that could actually be properly investigated. An object in restricted airspace, lots of observers, including airport personnel and pilots, reportedly with cameras, initial FAA denial that was proven to be false, recent event with wide news coverage, and easily accessible major US city and airport for reporters and researchers. I thought back then, that if this story is just left to dry up without proper investigation, I have had enough of this subject. And that's pretty much what happened. It's not only that the expected pictures never materialized, few seemed to actually try to contact eyewitnesses and collect the data while it was in recent memory. Might be that I'm just not aware of all the efforts, but that's the way it has looked like from what I have seen. I really hope this time the opportunities all this media attention brings are properly maximized, especially the willingness of Nimitz crew to talk about those events publicly.
Sentry
Paranormal Adept
The media is taking a lot on faith, repeating things said by Elizondo and TTSA partners as if it were fact. I wrote this piece questioning some of the issues the reporters have overlooked:
UFOs, the Media, the Military & Dreams of Discovery
UFOs, the Media, the Military & Dreams of Discovery
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Apparently even that part seems to be questionable:
Mystery over top secret UFO programme deepens as US government is accused of backtracking on staggering footage released
The Backtracking Has Begun on the Pentagon UFO Videos | Mysterious Universe
Hollywood Tomfortas
Paranormal Adept
I would like to call upon the conspiratorial expertise of any and all “Paranoid Paracasters” here —- the ones so designated by Thomas R. Morrison in Comment #226 on this thread last Tuesday —- OK you know who you are! (And “We” do too! Heh! Heh! Sorry, my bad!)
I would like you to investigate the paranormal credulity of journalist Leslie Keane, who, aside from George Knapp, has been a stalwart mainstream media presence writing articles and even a book in 2010 about UAPs and of course, UFO disclosure.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0307717089/?tag=rockoids-20
It seems to me that she has shamelessly abdicated her journalistic integrity to become, in essence, the Public Relations flack for the Bigelow Boondoggle (my new name for the TTS/AAS since that’s where the real money is).
Personally, I surmise that Leslie has her ambitious sights set on becoming — no, I mean supplanting —Linda Moulton Howe as the Supreme Media Diva of UFO Disclosure.
For example, check out this article Leslie wrote for HuffPo just about a year ago:
Groundbreaking UFO Video Just Released By Chilean Navy | HuffPost
The somewhat boisterous Skeptard jackals at METABUNK immediately set to work shredding her credulous Chilean UFO story and within a week had hashed out the mundane explanation for this aerial event — a helicopter.
Explained: Chilean Navy "UFO" video - Aerodynamic Contrails, Flight IB6830
But rather than stand corrected, instead Leslie doubled down on her faith, demonstrating her Mulderesque need to believe whatever inner truth she wants to project “out there” for lucrative public consumption.
A good documentation of her career credulity, starting with her “audience-cult” religious conversion in 1999 to UFOlogy is provided here by that wily and once wiry curmudgeon of a Skeptard debunker, Robert Sheaffer.
"‘Unexplained’ Cases—Only If You Ignore All Explanations"
I would like you to investigate the paranormal credulity of journalist Leslie Keane, who, aside from George Knapp, has been a stalwart mainstream media presence writing articles and even a book in 2010 about UAPs and of course, UFO disclosure.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0307717089/?tag=rockoids-20
It seems to me that she has shamelessly abdicated her journalistic integrity to become, in essence, the Public Relations flack for the Bigelow Boondoggle (my new name for the TTS/AAS since that’s where the real money is).
Personally, I surmise that Leslie has her ambitious sights set on becoming — no, I mean supplanting —Linda Moulton Howe as the Supreme Media Diva of UFO Disclosure.
For example, check out this article Leslie wrote for HuffPo just about a year ago:
Groundbreaking UFO Video Just Released By Chilean Navy | HuffPost
The somewhat boisterous Skeptard jackals at METABUNK immediately set to work shredding her credulous Chilean UFO story and within a week had hashed out the mundane explanation for this aerial event — a helicopter.
Explained: Chilean Navy "UFO" video - Aerodynamic Contrails, Flight IB6830
But rather than stand corrected, instead Leslie doubled down on her faith, demonstrating her Mulderesque need to believe whatever inner truth she wants to project “out there” for lucrative public consumption.
A good documentation of her career credulity, starting with her “audience-cult” religious conversion in 1999 to UFOlogy is provided here by that wily and once wiry curmudgeon of a Skeptard debunker, Robert Sheaffer.
"‘Unexplained’ Cases—Only If You Ignore All Explanations"
KACTUS
Paranormal Novice
interesting thanks for posting. question- how would the vortex jibe with the on-board rader and ground based radar which tracked the object at 80,000' and then down the surface of the ocean?
Hollywood Tomfortas
Paranormal Adept
BTW, since I brought up Robert Sheaffer’s 2011 review of Leslie Kean’s book, then it might be quite informative (OK, dis-informative) as well as schadenfreudian to read what Robert thinks of the NYT article and the Bigelow Boondoggle (not to mention his fondness for Leslie Kean.)
I give links to his two recent BAD UFOS blogposts:
December 18 (I copy his comment about Leslie Kean’s “unicornish” Chilean UFO belief)
Bad UFOs: Skepticism, UFOs, and The Universe: DeLonge Overload - And a Secret Federal UFO Investigations Program!
In fact, they seem quite similar to the "Groundbreaking UFO video" that Leslie Kean (one of the authors of the New York Times UFO article) obtained from Chile's UFO investigations group early this year, quite conclusively shown to have been a distant jet aircraft whose position had been misjudged.
December 21 (I copy another comment about Leslie)
http://www.badufos.com/
According to that now-famous New York Times story,
The program collected video and audio recordings of reported U.F.O. incidents, including footage from a Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet showing an aircraft surrounded by some kind of glowing aura traveling at high speed and rotating as it moves (emphasis added).
This struck me as a monumentally stupid thing to say, especially since a "glowing aura" was also visible in the "Groundbreaking" Chilean Helicopter Infrared video released by the "experts" in the Chilean government UFO investigations, that Leslie Kean (one of the authors of the current New York Times article) promoted so eagerly. (In that case, the "aura" was called an "envelope".) That video has conclusively been shown to depict a distant jet aircraft whose position had been misjudged.
I give links to his two recent BAD UFOS blogposts:
December 18 (I copy his comment about Leslie Kean’s “unicornish” Chilean UFO belief)
Bad UFOs: Skepticism, UFOs, and The Universe: DeLonge Overload - And a Secret Federal UFO Investigations Program!
In fact, they seem quite similar to the "Groundbreaking UFO video" that Leslie Kean (one of the authors of the New York Times UFO article) obtained from Chile's UFO investigations group early this year, quite conclusively shown to have been a distant jet aircraft whose position had been misjudged.
December 21 (I copy another comment about Leslie)
http://www.badufos.com/
According to that now-famous New York Times story,
The program collected video and audio recordings of reported U.F.O. incidents, including footage from a Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet showing an aircraft surrounded by some kind of glowing aura traveling at high speed and rotating as it moves (emphasis added).
This struck me as a monumentally stupid thing to say, especially since a "glowing aura" was also visible in the "Groundbreaking" Chilean Helicopter Infrared video released by the "experts" in the Chilean government UFO investigations, that Leslie Kean (one of the authors of the current New York Times article) promoted so eagerly. (In that case, the "aura" was called an "envelope".) That video has conclusively been shown to depict a distant jet aircraft whose position had been misjudged.
That's only if you look at the videos only and forget everything else that has been said about that Nimitz event. That's the interesting bit, that the other video at least currently doesn't have and the Chile UFO didn't have.
KACTUS
Paranormal Novice
totally agree. the chilean UFO debunk has become a faux rosetta stone used to debunk the nimitz/NYT events merely because leslie kean is associated with both. unlike many in the field (talking to you steven greer) ms. kean has shown herself to be professional, thorough and sober in her reporting of UAPs through the years.
Metabunk seems to have tried to debunk the Nimitz event as well:
2004 USS Nimitz Tic Tac UFO FLIR footage
In what I consider typical fashion for that site, it seems the site owner has basically decided from the get-go it has to be a distant plane just like in Chile, and whatever doesn't fit that (basically the whole backstory) can simply be ignored or explained away by saying it's not related or such (including radar returns from several days, that the object was found where the radar showed it would be, and what the pilots actually claimed to see in daylight with their own eyes). One of the moderators even states there that:
So their way of investigation and even some sort of site policy seems to be to take the easy piece and close your eyes from the rest, and also use that as an excuse so that they don't need to call the pilots liars, daydreamers or something like that. Several messages also seem to mistakenly assume it was Fravor's jet that shot the video.
They seem to have followed a similar approach for that Gimpal video, so basically assume it's a plane and/or IR flare and assume there's no backstory (as none is known at the moment) and disregard things like radar returns that indicated there was a fleet of objects.
2004 USS Nimitz Tic Tac UFO FLIR footage
In what I consider typical fashion for that site, it seems the site owner has basically decided from the get-go it has to be a distant plane just like in Chile, and whatever doesn't fit that (basically the whole backstory) can simply be ignored or explained away by saying it's not related or such (including radar returns from several days, that the object was found where the radar showed it would be, and what the pilots actually claimed to see in daylight with their own eyes). One of the moderators even states there that:
So their way of investigation and even some sort of site policy seems to be to take the easy piece and close your eyes from the rest, and also use that as an excuse so that they don't need to call the pilots liars, daydreamers or something like that. Several messages also seem to mistakenly assume it was Fravor's jet that shot the video.
They seem to have followed a similar approach for that Gimpal video, so basically assume it's a plane and/or IR flare and assume there's no backstory (as none is known at the moment) and disregard things like radar returns that indicated there was a fleet of objects.