From The NY Times: The Pentagon's Secret UFO Program

[Flatwoods]

There's a report from the NUFORC database for 11/01/2004 of a white oblong object sighted in Riverside, CA. The report was posted the next day on 11/02/2004.

I'll be damned if it doesn't read like exactly the same UFO seen in the Nimitz case.

 

[Realm]

There's a report from the NUFORC database for 11/01/2004 of a white oblong object sighted in Riverside, CA. The report was posted the next day on 11/02/2004.

I'll be damned if it doesn't read like exactly the same UFO seen in the Nimitz case.

Great find! That definitely adds to the story. Did you try to search if there were similar events nearby?

So the report is as follows:

Occurred : 11/1/2004 11:40 (Entered as : 11/01/2004 11:40)
Reported: 11/1/2004 2:33:02 PM 14:33
Posted: 11/2/2004
Location: Riverside, CA
Shape: Cylinder
Duration:30 seconds
White object seen flying north to south, reflecting sunlight.

On 11/01/04 I was going for my daily walk. The sky was blue and clear, with strong, gusty winds. About 11:40, I noticed a white object appear above the treeline in front of me. At first, I thought it was a toy balloon or maybe a plastic bag that had been blown aloft by the wind. It became apparent that the object was not being tossed about by the wind, but was proceeding from north to south, straight as an arrow and contrary to the wind direction. It passed almost directly overhead, reflecting the sunlight as it passed. It appeared to be shiny, opaque white, not self-luminous. There were no wings, fins or other protrusions visible. The shape was a short tube with rounded ends, like a vitamin capsule or maybe an aircraft drop tank. I watched it until it disappeared in the distance to the south. I estimate that it was at least several tbousand feet high, as there were jetliners visible in the sky at the same time on approach to LAX and Ontario airport. The airliners appeared much higher that the object. The speed of the object reminded me of a military jet making a pass at an airshow, fast but not supersonic. There was no noticeable noise from the object, but there was a lot of background noise due to the wind in the trees. At one point, the object passed over, or maybe through, a cloud of dust which has been carried aloft by the wind, and it appeared to either make a wake throught it or cast a shadow on it as it passed. I am a law enforcement officer with 18 years experience, and have been an airplane buff since childhood.

http://www.nuforc.org/webreports/040/S40383.html

That description definitely sounds like the same object. There's no clear estimate of the size, but it is of course difficult to estimate, especially if you don't know the altitude. At least there's no indication it couldn't have been "fighter sized" as Fravor estimated it. A question to those of you who are more familiar with UFO report databases: Is that sort of tic-tac/vitamin capsule shape common in reports, and especially when combined with white color?

The reported date, location and direction are pretty much a perfect match considering the possibility of this being sort of a prelude to the events. Riverside is something like 30 miles inland, some 70 miles north of San Diego. That direction means it was going at least roughly towards the area where the navy saw it and since the Nimitz event happened on November 14th and it has been reported they saw those odd radar returns for around two weeks before that, which would be just around when this sighting occurred. Since this was reported November 2nd, we know it can't be based on any stories coming from Nimitz. So it definitely looks like an independent confirmation of something that fits to such description having been there at the time. Nuforc doesn't mention that the reporter would have remained completely anonymous, as they seem to do in some other reports. So does that mean they have the contact data and probably should contact that eyewitness again in hopes of getting any additional information?

It's also very interesting that this was seen in broad daylight, over densely populated area, 30 miles inland. So if this was the same object, and we consider the possibilities that the Nimitz event would have been some sort of test of highly advanced secret U.S. tech or something from Russia or China or such, would you expect them to be flying with something like at relatively slow speed and low altitude on broad daylight over densely populated areas inland?

 

[Realm]

Some additional info about when Nimitz left the port, what it did there, and who else was there:

Tactical Training Group Pacific (TACTRAGRUPAC) and four ships of Commander, Carrier Strike Group (CCSG) 11 conducted a virtual exercise Oct. 26-27 via secure wide area network and satellite, while they remained in port at bases in San Diego and Hawaii.
...
San Diego-based USS Nimitz (CVN 68), USS Princeton (CG 59) and USS Higgins (DDG 76), and the Hawaii-based USS Chafee (DDG 90) took part in the exercise, along with the staffs of CCSG 11 and Destroyer Squadron 23.

Nimitz CSG Practices the Art of War at Sea - Without Getting Underway

So they were still at port on October 27 and must have left right after that, if they had been at sea 23 days on November 20:

NORTH ISLAND, Calif. (NNS) -- USS Nimitz (CVN 68) pulled back into Naval Air Station North Island Nov. 20 after an arduous 23 days at sea completing Tailored Ship's Training Availability (TSTA) phases I, II and III, and Final Evaluation Period (FEP).

Nimitz Completes TSTA and FEP, Prepares for COMPTUEX

Other ships that participated in the exercise:

NORTH ISLAND, Calif. (NNS) -- Carrier Strike Group 11 reached a milestone in training Nov. 20 when the warships completed their first group sail off the coast of Southern California.

USS Nimitz (CVN 68), USS Princeton (CG 59), USS Chafee (DDG 90), USS Higgins (DDG 76) and Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 11 joined forces underway for the first time to conduct group training.

Carrier Strike Group 11 Sails Together for the First Time

Additionally as per that FS article, there was (at least) one submarine present:

USS Louisville, a Los Angeles-class Fast-Attack submarine that was in the area as part of the Nimitz Carrier Strike Group who reported there were no unidentified sonar contacts or strange underwater noises on that day.

If they saw those radar returns for roughly two weeks, that means they would have seen them pretty much as soon as they got to sea/that area. So that seems to leave the possibility that whatever was there would have been there already before they got there.

 

[Han]

Is that sort of tic-tac/vitamin capsule shape common in reports

My understanding is that the "Cigar" shaped UFO is very commonly reported, with some really old cases:

"Around dawn on April 14, 1561, residents of Nuremberg saw what they described as an aerial battle, followed by the appearance of a large black triangular object and then a large crash outside of the city. According to witnesses, there were hundreds of spheres, cylinders and other odd-shaped objects that moved erratically overhead "*



My (limited) understanding is that a cylinder is a good shape in fluid dynamics, e.g. 'modern' bullets:

above: two Mauser Bullets from 1888
7.92×57mm Mauser - Wikipedia

Above: German WWII V-2 Rockets

Above: USA Saturn V Rockets

Above: A swamp Harrier** egg.

Don't want to go off topic too much, but in my view these things are all related.

Also just because I am a pedant this video:

Does not show FA/18s it shows Northrop T-38 Talons (T for trainer).
They have written "stock footage" but why could they not get some FA/18 footage?



*1561 celestial phenomenon over Nuremberg - Wikipedia


**(Bird of prey) Swamp harrier - Wikipedia

 

[wwkirk]

Grant Cameron's take (From Jan. 3):

 

[mike]

My (limited) understanding is that a cylinder is a good shape in fluid dynamics, e.g. 'modern' bullets:

Ive also speculated on the cigar shape and wormholes here.

Cigar Shaped UFO’s – Best Evidence In The World

 

[Flatwoods]

It's also very interesting that this was seen in broad daylight, over densely populated area, 30 miles inland. So if this was the same object, and we consider the possibilities that the Nimitz event would have been some sort of test of highly advanced secret U.S. tech or something from Russia or China or such, would you expect them to be flying with something like at relatively slow speed and low altitude on broad daylight over densely populated areas inland?

There's lots of defense contractors located in Southern California, so who knows? Also, this sighting was reported to NUFORC. Most people have never heard of NUFORC, so it's safe to say probably one-in-a-hundred UFO sightings(or less) ever gets reported. For all we know, this tic-tac object could've been flying all over the place in November of 2004.

 

[Realm]

There's lots of defense contractors located in Southern California, so who knows?

Have they ever tested something really unconventional so publicly? I think we can at least be pretty certain other nations wouldn't do it like that. It would be quite a mess to be caught in an act like that.

Also, this sighting was reported to NUFORC. Most people have never heard of NUFORC, so it's safe to say probably one-in-a-hundred UFO sightings(or less) ever gets reported. For all we know, this tic-tac object could've been flying all over the place in November of 2004.

I was pondering earlier whether it is conceivable that there would be only one report if something so strange would fly over such areas in the middle of the day, but you are right, only a small minority would report what they saw. Also if it didn't make noticeable sound and was high enough to be regarded as a balloon or something, not that many would have paid attention to it in the first place.

 

[Realm]

Ive also speculated on the cigar shape and wormholes here.

Cigar Shaped UFO’s – Best Evidence In The World

There are no doubt reports of cigar, cylindrical, tubular etc. shapes, as those reports come in all shapes and forms, and there aren't that many basic shapes to choose from. But what that NUFORC report describes is a pretty specific tic-tac/pill/capsule shape, with matching color as well. I tried to glimpse through nearby reports from NUFORC database, and didn't see anything even close to so similar.

As I said, I'm not really that familiar with databases like that, so I don't have a good grasp on what is typical and what is not, but to me such an exact match of shape (which doesn't seem that conventional), timing and location seems like quite an improbable coincidence.

 

[Realm]

Still thinking about the discrepancies regarding the reported radar altitudes and locations:

What Dave didn’t know was for the past several days, Princeton had been picking up some bizarre returns on their Death Star-worthy SPY-1 radar. On several occasions beginning 10 November, the Fire Control Officer and the extremely experienced Fire Control Senior Chief had detected multiple returns descending from far above the radar’s scan volume–somewhere higher than 80,000 ft. The targets, dubbed Anomalous Aerial Vehicles (AAVs), would drop from above 80K to hover roughly 50 feet off the water in a matter of seconds.

Always over the same spot, a Lat/Long about 30NM off the coast of Baja, roughly 70nm southwest of Tijuana. At the time, the SPY-1 was the most sophisticated and powerful tactical radar on the planet. With it, they were able to track these AAVs while they descended, hovered and then zipped away at speeds, turn rates and accelerations faster than any known friendly or threat aircraft. Impossibly fast.

First of all, if my understanding about the location of the UFO is now correct (as shown in the map I linked here), the UFO was 70 miles=60 nautical miles southwest from Nimitz, which in turn was 80 miles=70 nautical miles from Tijuana, so in total the UFO was close to 150 miles=130 nautical miles from Tijuana and about 130 miles=113 nautical miles from closest coast.

I don't remember seeing any information where Princeton was at the time, but I guess it should be somewhere close to Nimitz? That would mean the radar that picked up those returns would have to cover around 70 miles. The question is, what is the minimum altitude from which it can actually detect targets, considering the curvature of earth and all?

Apparently the radar is very sensitive on those distances, so the distance itself is hardly a problem:

The SPY-1 can maintain continuous radar surveillance while automatically tracking more than 100 targets at one time. Public numerical figures on the SPY-1 detection range claim that it can detect a golf ball-sized target at ranges in excess of 165 km. When applied to a ballistic missile-sized target, the SPY-1 radar is estimated to have a range of 310 km. The system is designed for blue water and littoral operations however SPY-1 configuration must be modified to look above the terrain to avoid causing excessive false targets from land clutter. Configuration changes to mitigate this technical issue have made it more difficult for AN/SPY-1 to identify and track low and fast targets.

Missile Defense Advocacy Alliance » AN/SPY-1 Radar

In this case the ship was on open sea, so they shouldn't have needed to worry that much about features on land that could affect it. But the curvature of earth is still a problem. Among other things, that calculation depends on how high the radar (AN/SPY-1B(V)) is installed on the Princeton. Let's say it's something like 100 feet, since I don't have any better info.

Here's one calculator that shows that assuming straight line of sight, the minimum altitude for 70 miles from eye height of 100 feet would be around 2200 feet:
Earth Curve Calculator

Metabunk has a similar calculator, that also shows the effect standard refraction has, and that results around 1800 feet:
Metabunk: Earth's Curve Horizon, Bulge, Drop, and Hidden Calculator

Here's one radar FAQ (I don't know how reliable), that happens to talk about UFOs and anomalous radar signals as well (it doesn't describe anything that would result in false targets that move like that), and there's a table that shows about similar minimum altitudes:
RADAR FAQ

Over-the-horizon (OTH) radars can get around those limits:
Over-the-horizon radar - Wikipedia

Those that use ionosphere to bounce signals seem to be used on large installations on land only. As for the other option:

A second type of OTH radar uses much lower frequencies, in the longwave bands. Radio waves at these frequencies can diffract around obstacles and follow the curving contour of the earth, traveling beyond the horizon. Echos reflected off the target return to the transmitter location by the same path. These ground waves have the longest range over the sea. Like the ionospheric high-frequency systems, the received signal from these ground wave systems is very low, and demands extremely sensitive electronics. Because these signals travel close to the surface, and lower frequencies produce lower resolutions, low-frequency systems are generally used for tracking ships, rather than aircraft. However, the use of bistatic techniques and computer processing can produce higher resolutions, and has been used as of 1990s.

I don't know if Princeton could have something like that, but it seems like those techniques might not work that well for a flying target that was already near impossible to detect with the radars of the planes.

So based on all this, I think that the radar couldn't have located the targets at 50 feet or so, as is stated in the FS article, and the limit could be somewhere closer to 1500-2000ft for such target.

Practical implications:
- Those UFO(s) could probably move freely undetected at those distances below that altitude or above the scan limit somewhere around 80000ft.
- If the UFOs actually dropped to ocean level or below, radar wouldn't see it, not even close.
- That FS article doesn't seem to be that reliable on details like those distances and altitudes, so it's probably better to trust on other sources on those.

 

[uforadio]

Dear colleagues. Small and short addendum.

A/V Media Index file updated:
Pentagon UFO Study

2018-01-05 - The Late Show with Stephen Colbert: Neil deGrasse Tyson comments the Pentagon UFO Study

 

[SRL+]

As news coverage fades, the one month anniversary is quickly approaching, and what has been learned? I'll suggest; not a hell of a lot other than one must have the patience of a vice.
The DoD UFO news is fading. Now what? | Openminds.tv

However, on a slightly different note, there may be additional information to glean ...
AREA 51 SENSATION: 'Whistleblower' says secret USAF base has 'time-travelling Roswell UFO'

 

[Realm]

I have been trying to make the case that when it comes to credibility and making UFOs a topic to be taken seriously, details really matter. On that note, here's how Chris Mellon told his version of this story when TTSA was announced:

Transcript of To the Stars Academy Press Conference | Openminds.tv

He begins with this statement:

I will start by providing a rationale for combining science and entertainment in a single company. What is the underlying unity of these distinct activities.

And this is his version of the events:

Imagine these ships engaging in a routine training exercise when an unidentified aircraft with a small radar cross section appears on the radar heading directly towards the battlegroup. The aircraft has no transponder does not respond to radio calls. The Princeton ? contacts two F-18s already aloft to intercept the target as the two F-18s approach the four aviators see that the object has no wings or exhaust. It is white, oblong, some 40 feet long and perhaps 12 feet thick. One pilot pursues the craft of his wing man stays high. The pilots are astonished to see the object suddenly reorient itself toward the approaching F-18. In a series of discreet tumbling maneuvers that seem to defy the laws of physics.

The object takes a position directly behind the approaching F-18. The pilot’s capture gun camera footage and infrared imagery of the object. They are outmatched by a technology they’ve never seen. Fearful for their safety and running low on fuel both have eight teams returned to the Nimitz. Yet the strange object remains in the vicinity of the Nimitz for hours, monitored by the USS Princeton and radar aboard a Navy E-2 Hawkeye aircraft. At one point the object soars to 80000 feet, hovers, then drops at supersonic speeds coming to a full stop a mere 50 feet above the ocean where it resumes hovering. More F-18s are dispatched but with similar results. As before the engagement occurs in broad daylight in the secret machine easily evades the F-18s. Dozens of military personnel aboard the various planes and ships involved are privy to these interactions.

For me that was quite a good demonstration why it's a bad idea to combine science and entertainment.

I highlighted those parts in red that are in direct conflict with the sources we have and the accounts that the pilots themselves have given. Those that are just bolded are parts for which there's no confirmation in any sources I have seen, that mess up the order of events etc. Basically he tried to twist the story to one where aliens are harassing the fearful crew.

There's already plenty of those who combine facts with fiction like that, such as tabloids that are happy to make stories like that "AREA 51 SENSATION" mentioned above, without even trying to validate their sources. Those definitely don't give credibility for this topic, but I believe most understand that they don't have close links to the events that they cover and it's their own credibility that is more in question.

But I believe that many don't make a similar kind of separation between the TTSA and cases like this, especially since he continued like this:

I’ve met with one of the pilots and confirmed the account as have other members of the To the Stars Academy team. But the real beauty of this story is that you don’t have to take my word for it or even that of the Navy officer who described these events in an article you can find on the web by searching on Nimitz UFOs 2004 there I was.

With that he managed to harm the credibility of the rest of the team and those pilots as well. Now anyone can go to the story and see that it doesn't match to what he stated to be facts:

There is nothing to prove here. These are just facts that need to be properly evaluated.

It's also interesting how he talks about anxieties just after he tried to make this story sound scarier than it was and highlight fears that the pilots have said they didn't have:

Once the truth is known some anxieties will certainly be raised

I for one won't trust anything that storyteller says before I see independent confirmation elsewhere. That's what he managed to do the moment they made that announcement.

Since apparently not a single person from that team had vetted the story before that or at least didn't see they should make corrections (even after the event), including to the fact that they showed prominently that picture of a party balloon that had nothing to do with it, I don't see them being the sort of team that would be capable of performing proper investigation and accurate reporting.

 

[mike]

I suspect, and its just a guess mind you, That the "entertainment" aspect is a lawyers loophole in regards to crowdfunding.
It satisfy's the argument they got something for their money.
It also provides a handy safety valve if mass panic sets in. Remember as a kid being scared of something on the TV and being told "Its OK, its only TV its not real"

 

[Realm]

I suspect, and its just a guess mind you, That the "entertainment" aspect is a lawyers loophole in regards to crowdfunding.
It satisfy's the argument they got something for their money.

I doubt such argument would work, as they are supposedly investing to the company, not to the products or services it produces. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think you can compensate one with the other.

But they probably are fine from the legal perspective as long as they have given truthful and sufficient information to their investors and at least to me their offering circular comes pretty close to actually stating that investors should expect to lose their money.

I believe the entertainment part is there because DeLonge is an entertainer, not a scientist. That's his way of doing business. And for what I have seen, it can be a profitable business for himself.

 

[mike]

their offering circular comes at pretty close to actually stating that investors should expect to lose their money.

Which would technically qualify as a scam.

Poker machine vendors use the same loophole, Yes you will loose most of the money you put into the device. But you get entertained in the process so its not a rip off.

 

[Realm]

Which would technically qualify as a scam.

I don't think it does if they make it clear. There are lots of high risk ventures where the investors will most likely lose their money. But it's fine if they are aware of the risks and invest anyway, usually in hopes of high returns if they beat the odds.

In this case it's probably not a scam even if most of that money goes to DeLonges pockets, at least from legal perspective, since they pretty much acknowledge that possible outcome as well.

Poker machine vendors use the same loophole, Yes you will loose most of the money you put into the device. But you get entertained in the process so its not a rip off.

In this case the analogue would be more like investing to the company that makes or runs those machines, and then given the opportunity to pay to play their machines as the stock plummets.

 

[mike]

Is Raytheon, normally pretty secretive about weapons contracts and equipment, upset to be linked to this UFO story?


“We might be the system that caught the first evidence of E.T. out there. But I’m not surprised we were able to see it. ATFLIR is designed to operate on targets that are traveling in excess of Mach 1. It’s a very agile optical system with a sensitive detector that can distinguish between the cold sky and the hot moving target quite easily.”


They’re not upset … they’re excited! At least Aaron Maestas, director of engineering and chief engineer for Surveillance and Targeting Systems at Raytheon’s Space and Airborne Systems business, is. He is quoted on the company’s web site in an article entitled “The UFO Spotter: Navy Pilots Used Raytheon Tech to Track a Strange UFO,” which explains that ATFLIR (designated AN/ASQ-228 by the Navy) is a “single pod that combines mid-wave infrared targeting and navigation FLIRs, an electro-optical, or visual light, sensor, a laser rangefinder and target designator, and a laser spot-tracker. It can locate and designate targets day or night at ranges exceeding 40 nautical miles and altitudes surpassing 50,000 feet.”

Raytheon Brags About its UFO Tracking Capabilities | Mysterious Universe

 

[mike]

I don't think it does if they make it clear. There are lots of high risk ventures where the investors will most likely lose their money. But it's fine if they are aware of the risks and invest anyway, usually in hopes of high returns if they beat the odds.

In this case it's probably not a scam even if most of that money goes to DeLonges pockets, at least from legal perspective, since they pretty much acknowledge that possible outcome as well.



In this case the analogue would be more like investing to the company that makes or runs those machines, and then given the opportunity to pay to play their machines as the stock plummets.

We may never know, But certainly adding the "entertainment" tag covers that base if they need it.

 

[uforadio]

Dear colleagues.

Currently in travel mode through Europe on my journalistic assignments.
However, monitoring continues. Here is the latest batch:

Media Index page updated:
Pentagon UFO Study

2018-01-11 - FOX News - Tucker Carlson Tonight: Interview with Leslie Kean

2018-01-10 - W Radio (Colombia): Interview (in English) with Luis Elizondo
Thanks to Brian Vincent for this lead:
Audio Backup:
https://app.box.com/s/d3puc32uwwv2kqmugwnxhpp02qgn93ck
Audio Source:
Hay un tabú alrededor del conocimiento de los fenómenos extraterrestres: Luis Elizondo

2018-01-11 - Phenomenon: Interview with Eric Davis (Eric is also quoting AATIP report during the interview):
https://goo.gl/Zw7t3B

2017-12-18 - Fox 4: News Comment on the Pentagon UFO Study

Best wishes.