Global Warming Happy Fun-Time

[dyingsun]

Dude, loose up a little...no one's a sir around here Call me dude or man or guy, just don't pee on my rug, it ties the room together

 

[Muadib]

Dude, loose up a little...no one's a sir around here Call me dude or man or guy, just don't pee on my rug, it ties the room together

Rofl, nice. I like that. Hope you don't mind if I steal it and use it in the future

 

[dyingsun]

 

[Angel of Ioren]

This thread was a lot of fun - things were kept quite civil too.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Angelo all in jest life is too short man and this is what society becoming due to fear-mongering of G.W

 

[pixelsmith]

I used to get really invested into these debates with Pixel until I realized it was getting nowhere. That's why I'm not really saying much. Maudib has done an excellent job of posting science and showing how all of Pixel's examples are highly politicized. Pixel has had to resort to plenty of logical fallacies - pretty much a text book example of how people that ignore the science on this topic do things.

Muadib has done nothing but spew computer modeled garbage and blather. I find it unbelievable that Angel is saying my examples are highly politicized when all Muadib has given me as science is junk from a GOVERNMENTAL and UN endorsed body of government funded "scientists" who have bragged in emails about their nefarious activities and how they are corrupting the peer review process and fudged data being put into computer models. It blows my mind that they think this is acceptable... or scientific.
No one in my camp that has any credibility ever said global warming is not real. That is like saying ice ages are not real. Our beef is that CO2 can only cause a small amount of warming compared to other GHGs and that it does NOT need to be taxed or demonized in order to save the planet. pretty simple. Once again, if you disagree with that PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE man up and hold your breath for 20 minutes.

 

[pixelsmith]

 

[Muadib]

Muadib has done nothing but spew computer modeled garbage and blather. I find it unbelievable that Angel is saying my examples are highly politicized when all Muadib has given me as science is junk from a GOVERNMENTAL and UN endorsed body of government funded "scientists" who have bragged in emails about their nefarious activities and how they are corrupting the peer review process and fudged data being put into computer models. It blows my mind that they think this is acceptable... or scientific.
No one in my camp that has any credibility ever said global warming is not real. That is like saying ice ages are not real. Our beef is that CO2 can only cause a small amount of warming compared to other GHGs and that it does NOT need to be taxed or demonized in order to save the planet. pretty simple. Once again, if you disagree with that PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE man up and hold your breath for 20 minutes.

And you've done nothing but present long ago debunked arguments from employees of the oil and energy industry, some from Creationist websites, and crap about some giant imaginary conspiracy that's only scientific or even validated in your own deluded mind. You argued against AGW for something like 10 pages only to finally change your mind and say that AGW was never the issue, it was CAGW, keep on moving those goalposts. There are countless examples of science done by scientists with no ties to the UN or the IPCC other than the fact that their work was used to arrive at their conclusions. It's cool though, I've proven over and over again that you're completely and utterly wrong about CO2, as it is the driving force behind global warming whether you want to admit it or not. Once again, you've presented 0 science, just opinions from idiotic right wing AGW deniers, think tanks and creationist websites, you've tried to make it seem like there's some big controversy where none exists and you haven't posted one piece of real science that proves AGW is a myth because it doesn't exist as I've proven over and over again. I'd also like to point out that nowhere in any of my arguments did I advocate taxation as the solution to this problem, I've said plenty of times that it's not. All these tactics have failed and will continue to fail. You agreed with me that AGW is in fact real, kudos to you, admitting your arguments have a huge problem is the first step towards recovery from ideology that is completely unscientific in the first place.

 

[Muadib]

Even though it's pretty old, I like what Carl Sagan had to say on the matter of GW:

This video interestingly compares GW deniers and Creationists, The rhetoric and political techniques employed by global warming deniers have remarkable parallels to those employed by anti-evolutionists. The video also talks a bit about the Heartland Institute, where Pixel has gotten almost his entire argument, besides the stuff that came from oil industry employees.

 

[GeoShift]

Do the happy fun times never end? I don't think so hehe.

 

[nameless]

more charts please

 

[nameless]

and angry graphs

 

[mike]

The AGW consensus scam is one of the most astounding frauds in all of history, not only because it is patently false, but also because it is being used to propel the most sweeping and authoritarian scheme for global economic, social, and political regimentation the world has ever seen. This is not merely a theoretical scientific debate; the alleged “science” is being used to drive policy and legislation — at a global level. The policies they have already succeeded in imposing have caused devastating impacts, especially on the world’s poorest populations. The additional policies they propose would cause even more horrendous results. The AGW alarmists insist that “science has spoken,” and it is telling us, they say, that we must subject ourselves to UN-mandated global governance — which is to be determined, of course, by scientists who toe the UN-approved, IPCC-certified party line.

“Climate Science” in Shambles: Real Scientists Battle UN Agenda


I have to say i have to wonder about this topic, The local situation makes me very suspicious.
Here in australia they have introduced a Carbon price (read Tax) and it has no effect on environment at all.
The only "change" this policy creates, is money changing hands, the environment gets nothing.
The Govt charges the polluters per ton of Co2, the polluters pass that cost to the consumer, the Govt compensates the consumer with cash handouts and income tax cuts, and this is passed back to the polluters, who pass it to the govt who pass it to the consumer who pass it to the polluters, and round and round we go.
reductions in emmissions ? less than nil.

Projected Population increase will see an increase in emmisions by 2020, no "targets" will be met.

The Govt could have simply said we wont approve any new coal powered electricity stations, you want to sell electricity invest in clean technology.
It could have said to vehicle manufacturers tool up to produce hydrogen bead powered cars

Green Machine: Fill up your car with hydrogen beads - tech - 01 February 2011 - New Scientist

Instead its approved several new massive coal mines.

The common factor .........Money

The environment gets nothing

There are any number of policys that could help the environment, but the only ones that get enacted are those that generate income.
On the one hand they are using buzz phrases like "clean energy future" on the other approving massive coal mines hand over fist.........

Something doesnt add up

Until recently, the AGW alarmists definitely had the upper hand. For one thing, they have been organized. For another, they have been outspending the climate realists by a huge order of magnitude. In 2007, Sen. James Inhofe (R-Okla.), the ranking member of the Environment & Public Works Committee, showed that proponents of man-made global warming enjoyed a monumental funding advantage over the skeptics. The alarmists had received a whopping $50 billion — mostly from the federal government — compared to “a paltry $19 million and some change” for the realists. A 2009 study entitled “Climate Money,” by Joanne Nova for the Science & Public Policy Institute, found that the U.S. government had sunk $79 billion into climate-change-related activities (science research, alternative energy technology, foreign aid, etc.) between 1989 and 2009. That total does not include additional massive funding from state governments, foundations, and corporations. Similar levels of funding have been poured into “climate policy” by European Union institutions and the national governments of European nations and Japan. This super-extravagant lavishing of state funding on a new scientific field has created an instant global climate industry that is government-fed and completely political. However, these sums, impressive as they are, represent only the very tip of the mountain of “climate cash” that has the political classes panting and salivating. They smell not only tens of billions of dollars for research and technology, but also hundreds of billions for “climate debt” foreign aid, and trillions to be made in CO2 cap-and-trade schemes.

 

[Muadib]

Personally, I'm not interested in arguing the political side of this thing. I can assure you that contrary to that article, I am not suggesting that we all subject ourselves to UN global governance. Also, I'm a little bit suspicious of anything that comes from the John Birch Society, and I've already posted elsewhere in this thread what I think of Joanne Nova the Shell employee. It's a pretty common thing amongst almost all of the AGW denier outfits that if you trace them back far enough, you'll find the oil industry, which has a vested interest in proving that their product is not fucking up the planet.

The bottom line for me is this, until someone out there wins a Nobel Prize overturning the consensus view on AGW through new research or coming up with a new model that explains the data we already have and passes muster with peer review, the scientific opinion on the matter is pretty much settled. Science is not an exercise in fair play, it's an exercise in, well, science, and they don't have any. Just strong opinions and 50 different red herring arguments based on outdated information, conspiracy theories and outright lies.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Seems to be getting Warmer in here

 

[Muadib]

It certainly is getting warmer:

Warmest Half Year On Record For U.S. Mainland, NOAA 'State Of The Climate' Reports

The Huffington Post | By Joanna Zelman Posted: 07/09/2012 4:10 pm Updated: 07/09/2012 4:18 pm


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Boats sit in the bottom mud at the dock in the west cove at Morse Reservoir in Noblesville, Ind., Thursday, July 5, 2012. The reservoir is down 3.5 feet from normal levels. Oppressive heat is slamming the middle of the country with record temperatures that aren’t going away after the sun goes down. Temperatures exceeded 100 degrees in Central Indiana. (AP Photo/Michael Conroy)
Yes, it really is getting hot out there. A new report finds that the past 12 months have been the warmest on record for the mainland United States.
According to the NOAA National Climatic Data Center's "State of the Climate: National Overview for June 2012" report released Monday, the 12-month period from July 2011 to June 2012 was the warmest on record (since recordkeeping began in 1895) for the contiguous United States, with a nationally-averaged temperature of 56.0 degrees, 3.2 degrees higher than the long-term average.
According to the report, every single state in the contiguous U.S. except for Washington saw warmer-than-average temperatures during this time period. The period from January to June of this year also has been the warmest first half of a year on record for the U.S. mainland.
For a large portion of the contiguous U.S., these first six months were also drier than average. The U.S. Drought Monitor showed that as of July 3, 56 percent of the contiguous U.S. is experiencing drought conditions. In June, wildfires burned over 1.3 million acres, the second most on record for the month.
As for that brutally hot June? More than 170 all-time warm temperature records were broken or tied last month.
Not all states were feeling the heat: the Pacific Northwest and the Southeast experienced some cooler-than-average conditions, but the Southeast still saw record-high temperatures near the end of the month.
For 13 consecutive months, temperatures ranked among the warmest third of their historical distribution for the first time on record. As NOAA points out, "The odds of this occurring randomly is 1 in 1,594,323."
The report comes on the heels of growing awareness that the increase in heat waves, wildfires, droughts and some other weather extremes the U.S. is experiencing may indicate what climate change holds in store for the future.
"It's hard to pinpoint climate change as the driving factor, but it appears that it is playing a role," National Climatic Data Center scientist Jake Crouch told Reuters of the long-term warming trend. "What's going on for 2012 is exactly what we would expect from climate change."
Seth Borenstein recently wrote for the Associated Press that according to climate scientists, recent U.S. weather reflects what many experts predicted would come with climate change. "In the future you would expect larger, longer more intense heat waves and we've seen that in the last few summers," said NOAA Climate Monitoring chief Derek Arndt.
And as Princeton professor Michael Oppenheimer declared on a press call, "What we are seeing is a window into what global warming really looks like."
Recent reports suggest it's going to get a lot worse. Climate change not only has been tied to weather extremes, but also linked to rising sea levels. A study released in late June by the National Research Council found that much of California can expect a sea level rise of six inches by 2030, while a report by U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) government scientists found that rates of sea level rise in a "hotspot" along the U.S. Atlantic Coast are increasing about three to four times more than the global average. A study published in Nature Climate Change last month found that human activities have played a large role in global ocean warming.
The West is on fire, dozens are dead from the most recent heat wave, and the mainland U.S. has just felt its warmest 12 months on record. Welcome to the future?

 

[pixelsmith]

thats funny as hell. Muadib seems to think that weather and climate are the same thing. That's part of the problem... people like Muadib opening their CO2 holes and spewing forth crap and believing they actually know something.

 

[Muadib]

That's part of the problem... people like me opening their CO2 holes and spewing forth crap and believing they actually kno.

Yeah you should really stop doing that......

The difference between weather and climate is a measure of time. Weather is what conditions of the atmosphere are over a short period of time, and climate is how the atmosphere "behaves" over relatively long periods of time.

When we talk about climate change, we talk about changes in long-term averages of daily weather. Today, children always hear stories from their parents and grandparents about how snow was always piled up to their waists as they trudged off to school. Children today in most areas of the country haven't experienced those kinds of dreadful snow-packed winters, except for the Northeastern U.S. in January 2005. The change in recent winter snows indicate that the climate has changed since their parents were young.

If summers seem hotter lately, then the recent climate may have changed. In various parts of the world, some people have even noticed that springtime comes earlier now than it did 30 years ago. An earlier springtime is indicative of a possible change in the climate.

Image to Left: Latest three month average temperature and precipitation anomalies for the United States. Image Credit: NOAA

In addition to long-term climate change, there are shorter term climate variations. This so-called climate variability can be represented by periodic or intermittent changes related to El Niño, La Niña, volcanic eruptions, or other changes in the Earth system.





What Weather Means
Weather is basically the way the atmosphere is behaving, mainly with respect to its effects upon life and human activities. The difference between weather and climate is that weather consists of the short-term (minutes to months) changes in the atmosphere. Most people think of weather in terms of temperature, humidity, precipitation, cloudiness, brightness, visibility, wind, and atmospheric pressure, as in high and low pressure.

In most places, weather can change from minute-to-minute, hour-to-hour, day-to-day, and season-to-season. Climate, however, is the average of weather over time and space. An easy way to remember the difference is that climate is what you expect, like a very hot summer, and weather is what you get, like a hot day with pop-up thunderstorms.

Things That Make Up Our Weather
There are really a lot of components to weather. Weather includes sunshine, rain, cloud cover, winds, hail, snow, sleet, freezing rain, flooding, blizzards, ice storms, thunderstorms, steady rains from a cold front or warm front, excessive heat, heat waves and more.

In order to help people be prepared to face all of these, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's (NOAA) National Weather Service (NWS), the lead forecasting outlet for the nation's weather, has over 25 different types of warnings, statements or watches that they issue. Some of the reports NWS issues are: Flash Flood Watches and Warnings, Severe Thunderstorm Watches and Warnings, Blizzard Warnings, Snow Advisories, Winter Storm Watches and Warnings, Dense Fog Advisory, Fire Weather Watch, Tornado Watches and Warnings, Hurricane Watches and Warnings. They also provide Special Weather Statements and Short and Long Term Forecasts.

NWS also issues a lot of notices concerning marine weather for boaters and others who dwell or are staying near shorelines. They include: Coastal Flood Watches and Warnings, Flood Watches and Warnings, High Wind Warnings, Wind Advisories, Gale Warnings, High Surf Advisories, Heavy Freezing Spray Warnings, Small Craft Advisories, Marine Weather Statements, Freezing Fog Advisories, Coastal Flood Watches, Flood Statements, Coastal Flood Statement.

Who is the National Weather Service?
According to their mission statement, "The National Weather Service provides weather, hydrologic, and climate forecasts and warnings for the United States, its territories, adjacent waters and ocean areas, for the protection of life and property and the enhancement of the national economy. NWS data and products form a national information database and infrastructure which can be used by other governmental agencies, the private sector, the public, and the global community."

To do their job, the NWS uses radar on the ground and images from orbiting satellites with a continual eye on Earth. They use reports from a large national network of weather reporting stations, and they launch balloons in the air to measure air temperature, air pressure, wind, and humidity. They put all this data into various computer models to give them weather forecasts. NWS also broadcasts all of their weather reports on special NOAA weather radio, and posts them immediately on their Interactive Weather Information Network website at: National Data - NOAA's National Weather Service.
What Climate Means
In short, climate is the description of the long-term pattern of weather in a particular area.

Some scientists define climate as the average weather for a particular region and time period, usually taken over 30-years. It's really an average pattern of weather for a particular region.

When scientists talk about climate, they're looking at averages of precipitation, temperature, humidity, sunshine, wind velocity, phenomena such as fog, frost, and hail storms, and other measures of the weather that occur over a long period in a particular place.

For example, after looking at rain gauge data, lake and reservoir levels, and satellite data, scientists can tell if during a summer, an area was drier than average. If it continues to be drier than normal over the course of many summers, than it would likely indicate a change in the climate.

Why Study Climate?
The reason studying climate and a changing climate is important, is that will affect people around the world. Rising global temperatures are expected to raise sea levels, and change precipitation and other local climate conditions. Changing regional climate could alter forests, crop yields, and water supplies. It could also affect human health, animals, and many types of ecosystems. Deserts may expand into existing rangelands, and features of some of our National Parks and National Forests may be permanently altered.

Image to Right: An example of a Monthly Mean Outgoing Longwave Radiation (OLR) product produced from NOAA polar-orbiter satellite data, which is frequently used to study global climate change. Image Credit: NOAA

The National Academy of Sciences, a lead scientific body in the U.S., determined that the Earth's surface temperature has risen by about 1 degree Fahrenheit in the past century, with accelerated warming during the past two decades. There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities. Yet, there is still some debate about the role of natural cycles and processes.

Human activities have altered the chemical composition of the atmosphere through the buildup of greenhouse gases – primarily carbon dioxide, methane, and nitrous oxide. The heat-trapping property of these gases is undisputed although uncertanties exist about exactly how Earth's climate responds to them. According to the U.S. Climate Change Science Program (http://www.climatescience.gov), factors such as aerosols, land use change and others may play important roles in climate change, but their influence is highly uncertain at the present time.

Who Studies Climate Change?
Modern climate prediction started back in the late 1700s with Thomas Jefferson and continues to be studied around the world today.

At the national level, the U.S. Global Change Research Program coordinates the world's most extensive research effort on climate change. In addition, NASA, NOAA, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and other federal agencies are actively engaging the private sector, states, and localities in partnerships based on a win-win philosophy and aimed at addressing the challenge of global warming while, at the same time, strengthening the economy. Many university and private scientists also study climate change.

What is the U.S. Global Change Research Program?
The United States Global Change Research Program (USGCRP) was created in 1989 as a high-priority national research program to address key uncertainties about changes in the Earth's global environmental system, both natural and human-induced; to monitor, understand, and predict global change; and to provide a sound scientific basis for national and international decision-making.

Since its inception, the USGCRP has strengthened research on global environmental change and fostered insight into the processes and interactions of the Earth system, including the atmosphere, oceans, land, frozen regions, plants and animals, and human societies. The USGCRP was codified by Congress in the Global Change Research Act of 1990. The basic rationale for establishing the program was that the issues of global change are so complex and wide-ranging that they extend beyond the mission, resources, and expertise of any single agency, requiring instead the integrated efforts of several agencies.

Some Federal Agencies Studying Climate
In the 1980s the National Weather Service established the Climate Prediction Center (CPC), known at the time as the Climate Analysis Center (CAC). The CPC is best known for its United States climate forecasts based on El Niño and La Niña conditions in the tropical Pacific.

CPC was established to give short-term climate prediction a home in NOAA. CPC's products are operational predictions or forecasts of how climate may change and includes real-time monitoring of climate. They cover the land, the ocean, and the atmosphere, extending into the upper atmosphere (stratosphere). Climate prediction is very useful in various industries, including agriculture, energy, transportation, water resources, and health.

Image Above: The operational SST anomaly charts are useful in assessing ENSO (El Niño - Southern Oscillation) development, monitoring hurricane "wake" cooling, and even major shifts in coastal upwelling. Image Credit: NOAA

NASA has been using satellites to study Earth's changing climate. Thanks to satellite and computer model technology, NASA has been able to calculate actual surface temperatures around the world and measure how they've been warming. To accomplish the calculations, the satellites actually measure the Sun's radiation reflected and absorbed by the land and oceans.

NASA satellites keep eyes on the ozone hole, El Nino's warm waters in the eastern Pacific, volcanoes, melting ice sheets and glaciers, changes in global wind and pressure systems and much more.

At the global level, countries around the world have expressed a firm commitment to strengthening international responses to the risks of climate change. The U.S. is working to strengthen international action and broaden participation under the support of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.

Today, scientists around the world continue to try and solve the puzzle of climate change by working with satellites, other tools and computer models that simulate and predict the Earth's conditions.

*******************************************************

For information about the U.S. Global Change Research Program, please visit:
http://www.usgcrp.gov/

For information about NASA's study of Earth's climate, please visit on the Internet:
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/features/index.html

For a review of 2004's Global Temperature, please visit:
http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/earth_warm.html

For information about NASA, please visit on the Internet:
http://www.nasa.gov

For information about the National Weather Service, please visit on the Internet:
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/

For immediate watches and warnings, visit the NWS Interactive Weather Information Network website at:
http://iwin.nws.noaa.gov/iwin/graphicsversion/bigmain.html

To find a NOAA weather radio station near you:
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/nwr/

For a glossary of weather terms, please visit the National Weather Service Weather Glossary on the Internet at:
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/glossary/



Rob Gutro
NASA's Earth-Sun Science News Team/SSAI

NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md., and excerpts from NOAA's CPC web page, and the U.S. EPA web page. 2/2005

Edits: Dr. J. Marshall Shepherd, NASA/GSFC, Drew Shindell, NASA/GISS, Cynthia M. O'Carroll, NASA/GSFC

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[pixelsmith]

NASA has been using satellites to study Earth's changing climate. Thanks to satellite and computer model technology, NASA has been able to calculate actual surface temperatures around the world and measure how they've been warming. To accomplish the calculations, the satellites actually measure the Sun's radiation reflected and absorbed by the land and oceans.

i guess the earth never cools since they only seem to be looking for warming for some reason.. oh yes i remember.... NASA has been busted for manipulating climate data to show warming trends.. sorry... nothing worth reading in anything you have posted. NASA is close to going out of business so they take up what?... climate alarmism.

 

[pixelsmith]

give it up. you lost this debate before it started. Rising CO2 levels are not causing anything but a GREENER planet... isnt that what we all want?