Hessdalen: Pioneers in UFO/Anomaly Detection

[Goggs Mackay]

No i agree. The white spiral is perfect and the way it was spinning was like a spiral drawn on a disc that spun.
Also why is the blue blue? Certain things burn with a blue flame but that is when they burn. Whatever this blue stuff is it would have ignited already if it came from an out of control rocket surely?
If the blue is due to refracted light from the sun should it not be red?
Another thing is that there were a couple more blue spirals, one in China and one in Australia. I don't know if they were video hoaxes but if not, nobody called them rocket tests.
According to jaime mussan -yes i know he peddles crap sometimes - the Russians denied it was their rocket and Russia was 700 miles from the spiral.
I don't have a clue what it was but i don't buy the rocket explanation!

 

[boomerang]

I think something more than a booster out of control is going on here. Is there a bona fide aerospace engineer in the house? I would love to hear his or her take.

Two things come to mind:
-The spiral is obviously very large and looks to be utterly perfect.
-Liquid fuel rockets don't (I think) leave much of a contrail in a vacuum.

As for the leaking fuel angle, I don't know why fuel vapor should be that luminous either. Again, I am not a scientist or engineer.

The nearest thing I could compare this to are experiments decades ago involving placing clouds of barium and other substances into the ionosphere (?) using sounding rockets. I recall the clouds as glowing red and distinctly visible in a dark sky, but not nearly as large and impressive as the spirals.

 

[boomerang]

And yes, I would love to hear someone affiliated with the Hessdalen project on The Paracast.

 

[Polterwurst]

Polter! I for one just do not buy this missile test explanation. I'm sure that spiral was moving and if it was only the trail of an out of control rocket, it would not do that. No other rocket test has produced such a spiral and every other out of control rocket I have seen footage of does not come close to following such a perfect pattern.

I am not sure but was there not another blue spiral seen elsewhere after the Norway one? I didn't hear an explanation of that one (if my memory is correct).

Anyway, I am not attributing anything UFOish or suchlike to the spiral necessarily but I just do not buy the missile explanation.

Sorry for not answering sooner, goggs. Had a PC virus problem and couldn't get online for days.

Not being a rocket scientist, I have no idea what it would look like when a rocket with a fuel leak spins out of control. There was a quite elaborate youtube video explanation which I found convincing, but as always I could be mistaken. The Russians denying that it was theirs - well, maybe someone over there fell on old habits (sorry about the joke, couldn't contain it) or it was the Chinese. Whatever it was it looked really impressive.

 

[pong]

Historical tidbit: J. Allen Hynek made a trip to Hessdalen not too long before he died. I'm sure he was fascinated by a location where phenomena repeated so many times.

 

[Jeff Davis]

Certainly the plethora of various anomalies are definitely worth examining on the Paracast, but the scientist at the centre of it, Erling Strand, is so reserved in interviews I've read in the last two years that he refuses to hang his hat on anything. Even his speculations are speculative, but if Ted Phillips can come on and blab about lights blobbing all over Marley Woods and only produce a white blobby photo of a furry critter in the distance then this deserves much more examination. Given the recent tone on The Paracast's Lance Moody & Don Ecker shows where policing ufology is the theme then the scientific approach to Hessdalen is right in line with the sincere investigative stance that Chris and Gene are promoting.

From what you are describing here it sounds like Erling is the consummate Scientist. Basically an unbiased observer reporting facts and observations without forming conclusions prior to collecting enough data to honestly formulate any real conclusions to begin with. It takes tremendous skill, discipline, and focus to pull off a long term observational study with respect to anomalous occurrences. Not to mention skin as thick as a rhino's to weather the empirical dart and ridicule hurlers. The sheer time, energy, and funds to accomplish such a study are dissuasive factors at best for the majority of the scientific community. Like yourself, I would be the first to posture myself front and center as an attentive audience.

Hessdalen is one of several places on Earth where such routine occurrences take place. South America being one of the others where such scientific scrutiny is needed. Whereas the Skinwalker Ranch may be a place where we will never know what precisely was discovered, not discovered, mutated, manipulated, or observed in relation to our human interaction, or involvement with such anomalous capacities.

These are exceptionally important and possibly paradigm rich times we are living in. It's tremendously encouraging to me to see real scientific scrutiny applied to these anomalous observations. Area studies such as those represented at Hessdalen may yield some of the most eye opening and pivotally important discoveries ascertained by science within the scope of contemporary record keeping.

Possibly humankind in the next 5, 20, 50 or 100 years will develop working perspective understandings within realms of that which is in fact integral to our natural environment and yet entirely outside our present working scientific capacity. Perhaps not so much a "shift" in scientific awareness as it would be a redefining of physical environmental limitations. All as a result of such embryonic scientifically tempered anomalous observations as these.

GREAT guest suggestion!

 

[Polterwurst]

I don't have a clue what it was but i don't buy the rocket explanation!

It seems that Erling Strand has a similar standpoint. I just found this podcast where he has been asked for his opinion on the spiral. Also, there is lots of info on the Hessdalen project and his own sightings, one of which resembles the Skinwalker Ranch sighting of a "portal". The interview is really interesting, but I had to skip some of the rather pointless banter of the hosts.

For some comic relief, you might also want to listen to the Skeptoid take on the Hessdalen phenomena. Mr Dunning honestly seems to think that they have been documenting airplane landing lights for the last 30 years up there and never even thought about possible misinterpretations.

Oh, and if these guys can get Mr. Strand on, maybe the Paracast could, too?
It stands to reason that in this case the hosts would be really informed and the banter would be much more interesting and fun...

 

[ProphetofOccam]

It looks like a natural phenomenon. I think that's way more interesting than any other explanation. Some kind of as yet undocumented electrical, gas, or energy phenomenon would be pretty neat. I think these guys would be awesome guests on the Paracast.

I don't think a lot of what was shown in the video could be landing lights. I'm unfamiliar with Skeptoid, but this sounds reasonable:

By no means am I suggesting that aircraft landing lights are the cause of all the Hessdalen sightings, but I have found no mention by any of the project's lead scientists that any serious effort was made to match the lights to aircraft flyovers in an attempt to falsify this particular hypothesis. Indeed, a few of the photographs from the automated station show lights down at ground level. Highway 576 winds along the floor of Hessdalen valley, so it would also be necessary to attempt to correlate ground level sightings with automobile traffic, which is exactly how the Marfa Lights case was solved in Texas. The effects seen at Marfa and in Australia of distant light sources appearing to be nearby, as liquidy and hovering orbs, can be quite impressive and persuasive; and it would be presumptuous of the Hessdalen investigators not to exhaust that possibility. Since we have an excellent and proven explanation for identical light phenomena in other parts of the world, that explanation is perhaps more likely than the list of exotic science-fiction avenues of investigation listed by Dr. Teodorani.

Investigate with an open mind. It's tough, because it means you have to be open to the possibility that you have not, in fact, discovered whole new branches of physics.

Keep in mind that he's not talking about an everyday observation of these types of manmade lights, but these lights filtered through naturally occurring phenomena, in similar geographic areas, that cause distortion and mirages. These geographical areas had similar light phenomena going on as well, which I'm sure everyone here is familiar with. I will say that I realize a lot of folks here don't accept some of the accepted explanations for similar lights, but it would still make sense for the researchers at this site to include investigation of this hypothesis in their reports, if only to eliminate it as an explanation.

The least interesting thing was the "slab." I am never impressed when someone mentions "laser-like precision;" usually, all that means is "straight." Most people have also never seen the results of laser machining, first hand. "Straight" is all it can mean to most people. People can cut blocks of soil out of the ground in solid, straight, flat pieces. I've seen it done for landscaping.

 

[Burnt State]

I will say that I realize a lot of folks here don't accept some of the accepted explanations for similar lights, but it would still make sense for the researchers at this site to include investigation of this hypothesis in their reports, if only to eliminate it as an explanation.

The least interesting thing was the "slab." I am never impressed when someone mentions "laser-like precision;" usually, all that means is "straight." Most people have also never seen the results of laser machining, first hand. "Straight" is all it can mean to most people. People can cut blocks of soil out of the ground in solid, straight, flat pieces. I've seen it done for landscaping.

Truthfully the Strand dude did elminate the criticisms of highway or plane lights fairly easily in the documentary -- i know what you mean about these beng the usual explanation for the ghost light scenario that is usually debunked. The phenomenon he is talking about comes in multiple categories, most are bizarre at best, especially the purple spiraling light that bounces off a tree and changes direction.

I found the slab fascinating because the machinery required to cut and lift a slab would definitely leave impressions in the marshy wet surrounding soil and there was none. The geometry of the cut is also a little weird, with roots neatly sliced to make clean edges, not torn the way machinery would. It also happened twice, in very remote areas with not a single trace of mechanical markings. These really do seem to be quite odd. Do you know what the machine is called that would do this in landscaping as i'd like to look at the shape of the slab it would cut?

 

[ProphetofOccam]

Truthfully the Strand dude did elminate the criticisms of highway or plane lights fairly easily in the documentary -- i know what you mean about these beng the usual explanation for the ghost light scenario that is usually debunked. The phenomenon he is talking about comes in multiple categories, most are bizarre at best, especially the purple spiraling light that bounces off a tree and changes direction

I'd like to watch it. All I've seen is the video posted here.The Skeptoid writer seemed to feel that that had not been done, that's the only reason i said it was a fair idea.

I found the slab fascinating because the machinery required to cut and lift a slab would definitely leave impressions in the marshy wet surrounding soil and there was none.

We had to do similar things the semester I entertained landscape design as a possible direction to take my 3D Modeling stuff. You don't really need fancy machines, you just need a bunch of people.

The spot shown in the video wasn't even that large. You'd need about ten people who just really like fucking with scientists to pull it off. If it's cold enough, roots will just snap, rather than pull completely from the ground. It also wouldn't take much to plane the slab, if you felt like making your scientist-fuckwithary more aesthetically interesting.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but I'm saying it's entirely possible. That stuff is never impressive to me, for that reason. I'd be impressed if a stone cube, the size of a small building, was cut from the side of a mountain and placed in a location a few hundred feet from the place it was removed. That would need a lot of fancy machines. This thing was like a six by three cube of dirt that seemed only a few inches deep (like seven or eight) in a place that seems to get really cold. We could do it in my backyard right now with some long handled, flat-spade shovels and a constant supply of cocoa.

 

[Burnt State]

We had to do similar things the semester I entertained landscape design as a possible direction to take my 3D Modeling stuff. You don't really need fancy machines, you just need a bunch of people.

The spot shown in the video wasn't even that large. You'd need about ten people who just really like fucking with scientists to pull it off. If it's cold enough, roots will just snap, rather than pull completely from the ground. It also wouldn't take much to plane the slab, if you felt like making your scientist-fuckwithary more aesthetically interesting....We could do it in my backyard right now with some long handled, flat-spade shovels and a constant supply of cocoa.

Ok, so correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm In the process of turning my backyard into a forest and when I dig out slabs I make a big mess in the surrounding area and it's not that easy to cut such a clean flat bottom. In the video the surrounding area looks untouched. They said it weighed tonnes - is that accurate? Even with really good fair trade cocoa I feel doubtful I could accomplish this feat with my neighbors - they would need scotch and it would be a messy job.

Here's the whole video - tell me what you think.

 

[Burnt State]

Long handled flat-spade shovels and a constant supply of cocoa.

I know where to get the good cocoa but I am looking for a flat spade transplanting shovel. My neighbour had a short handled one that had no lip at all on the head of the spade so you could pull it in and out of the earth cleanly without making a mess when digging up root balls. He died and someone took his shovel. I have never seen anything like this at any garden supply store ever. Can you point me to one?

 

[ProphetofOccam]

I'm not making certain statements, or anything. This is just how it seems to me.

The pieces they show aren't much larger than a grave plot, but are only six or seven inches thick. The roots in this video aren't cut with precision. The one he points to is uneven and sticking out beyond the soil. The measurements shown on a piece of paper are from a different event. They say "the exact same size," but they don't make any attempt to qualify that statement. The measurements on the paper don't seem to match the perspective you can perceive between the people in the photo and the hole. It seems like excitement leading to loose language and exaggerated estimates.

He says "it must have weighed X," he didn't say anyone weighed it. That would be some extremely heavy topsoil, even drenched to capacity. I'd say his estimation is a little bizarre. The hole in the picture looks like it's about 6-7 ft x 3-4 ft. x 6-8 inches. It just seems like an exaggerated estimate.

 

[ProphetofOccam]

Can you point me to one

It sounds like he may have modified a turf edger.

That is, if it was more spade-like than this. You can use this to do the same thing, basically. I really hate landscaping. It kind of makes me nauseous to even look at things like this.

 

[Polterwurst]

I will say that I realize a lot of folks here don't accept some of the accepted explanations for similar lights, but it would still make sense for the researchers at this site to include investigation of this hypothesis in their reports, if only to eliminate it as an explanation.

Which the Hessdalen researchers obviously do. The "Portal" documentary mentions car lights etc., and there is this foto with the light spectrums, one from car headlights, one from a light that is probably anomalous.

I do accept these explanations - when they fit. Sometimes people want to see something and they misinterpret road or air traffic lights or reflections on lenses, especially if they only show up for a second and there is just no time to determine if it's not a car, plane helicopter or whatever.

But by no means does that explain away the real phenomenon. Probably not the (presumably small percentage of) real phenomenon of the "mystery" or "ghost lights" and definitely not the Hessdalen phenomenon. These light anomalies are sometimes observed over minutes, giving the observers - often the researchers themselves - plenty of opportunity to look for explanations.But in some cases, they just can't find usual or natural ones. These things manoeuver at high speeds, interact with each other (flying at or around each other, splitting into or dropping smaller lights and reuniting) and allegedly interact with the people on the ground.

No one can tell me that the researchers have been looking at traffic lights for 30 years without noticing. That's just preposterous. And although Mr Dunning, of Skeptoid or any other of the scepticists, if I asked them, would probably say that in no way do they want to indicate that these guys have been making fools of themselves all along, that is of course exactly what they do. Without having spent a single day up there trying to observe the lights and to gather data, they know exactly that the researchers have it all wrong.

 

[ProphetofOccam]

But by no means does that explain away the real phenomenon. Probably not the (presumably small percentage of) real phenomenon of the "mystery" or "ghost lights" and definitely not the Hessdalen phenomenon. These light anomalies are sometimes observed over minutes, giving the observers - often the researchers themselves - plenty of opportunity to look for explanations.But in some cases, they just can't find usual or natural ones. These things manoeuver at high speeds, interact with each other (flying at or around each other, splitting into or dropping smaller lights and reuniting) and allegedly interact with the people on the ground.

I hadn't seen the documentary, and I've only watched part of it, now.

The one thing I'll say about that particular point, though, is that people seem to often comment on all the amazing things these lights in the sky do, then they videotape the lights. In their videos, the lights always just seem to sit there or move at a reasonable pace along the sky. They further muddle the imagery, albeit by accident, by attempting to handhold a full zoom, as if they have never used a camera before. I haven't seen anything different in these videos (so far). These all seem to be relatively short captures with no crazy movements going on.

That said, some of the videos, especially the one where the lights bleed off of one another, seem harder to distinguish. I thought it was the only compelling piece of footage (so far). At first, I thought it looked like aerial flares (as many consider the Phoenix lights to have been), but the patterns don't look so much like those exercises, after a few seconds.

I'm about half way through the documentary.

 

[Burnt State]

It sounds like he may have modified a turf edger. That is, if it was more spade-like than this. You can use this to do the same thing, basically. I really hate landscaping. It kind of makes me nauseous to even look at things like this.

His had almost a square bottom as opposed to the diamond shape here, had no lip at all for foot stamping and was about a third longer than the edger. I hate edging but loved his ability to make perfect root balls.

 

[Randall]

Ok, so correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm In the process of turning my backyard into a forest and when I dig out slabs I make a big mess in the surrounding area and it's not that easy to cut such a clean flat bottom. In the video the surrounding area looks untouched. They said it weighed tonnes - is that accurate? Even with really good fair trade cocoa I feel doubtful I could accomplish this feat with my neighbors - they would need scotch and it would be a messy job. Here's the whole video - tell me what you think.

I've done a fair bit of landscaping and I can tell you that extracting a single piece of ground like that without leaving any trace of how it's done would not be an easy task. I've seen truck mounted hydraulic tree spades remove entire trees and leave next to no mess behind, but to extract a flat piece with a clean cut bottom? I can conceive of a machine that could do it, but I don't know of any, not to mention that there should be at least some trace if a machine were used. I can also think of a couple of scenarios that would probably get the job done using manual labor and a combination of tarps, ropes,skids and razor sharpened flat spades. But leaving no trace or related damage would still be hard. To be a little more skeptical, not having inspected the site personally to check for details, and not much else to go on but the video, how sure can we be that there were no traces at all? Besides that ... Why? Who? A prank on the "ufo nuts" by the local horticultural fraternity perhaps? Still very curious.

 

[Burnt State]

Apparently there are other examples of lifted soil slabs elsewhere. They do seem to be really, really heavy and strike me as being a lot of work for a hoax. Why not go find a nice field somewhere and invest your time in making a nice pic of Robbert van der broken etc.?

For those who want to read some sciency articles on Hessdalen there's one in here explaining the sightings this scientist recorded as car headlights, but admittedly does not answer all the other sightings. Then someone else briefly refutes that. There's also some other great paranormal related articles here as well in JSE_20 and for those who have even more time on their hands you can read about Charles Fort, Bigfoot and I think there's some other Hessdalen stuff in here JSE_18 as well. These are rather lengthy journals loaded with lots of equations for the calculus fans as well as explanations for why people think they are abducted by aliens. Get a case of beer and some smokes and you've got a weekend.

 

[ProphetofOccam]

Well, my thought is, if the soil was as wet and marshy as they say, it wouldn't be that hard to remove the soil in cubes, as is done in archeological digs, and reassemble the cubes into a larger mass, similar to the hole you made. The muddy, marshy soil would re-marry, reforming a solid-ish slab. The slabs in the photos are conforming to the soil beneath them, and are small enough to sit on, apparently. I just don't think it'd be that hard. If you has several guys with you, you could do larger than normal cubes, held together by evidently root-dense, but wet soil. I didn't mean to imply it would be done at once, but I also don't think those slabs look like they weigh several tons. If someone figured out a way to remove it all at once, it looks like ten people could carry it the few feet it seems to be sitting from the hole. Again, though, if a person did it, I think they'd do it in pieces and allow the marshy soil to re-marry as a single slab, after it had been reassembled. If someone paid me to do it, that's what I'd do.

Obviously, that doesn't mean that's what happened. Anything could have happened.