Hessdalen: Pioneers in UFO/Anomaly Detection

[ProphetofOccam]

I have to check out those papers. They sound like a good time.

 

[ProphetofOccam]

There also doesn't appear to be a clear reason that the two phenomena should be assumed to be related.

Still, my favorite of all the evidence they've collected is that one video. That's pretty interesting footage.

 

[Randall]

Well, my thought is, if the soil was as wet and marshy as they say, it wouldn't be that hard to remove the soil in cubes, as is done in archeological digs, and reassemble the cubes into a larger mass, similar to the hole you made. The muddy, marshy soil would re-marry, reforming a solid-ish slab ...

I've seen a lot of sod go down, including thick hand cut sections. Given at least a couple of weeks, grass will re-mesh to some extent, but the cut lines in the matting would still identifiable for longer, as would be the cuts in the older roots, but if the researchers didn't know what to look for, and the job was done with great care, these indications might be overlooked, so your theory is certainly valid enough to deserve investigation. I wonder if they had any horticultural specialists check it out?

 

[Polterwurst]

I'm quite sceptical myself regarding the slab removal, but how on earth would they do that without leaving a trace and how would they get the machinery out there when there really seem to be no roads or at least tracks? If they did, what did all the effort amount to? A brief mention in a documentary, a little money from magazines and probably a lot of ridicule?

I'm also sceptical about the more "nuts and bolts" UFO reports, but the people reporting them in front of the camera don't seem to be telling tall tales. And that's especially my feeling about Erling Strand. He seems like a perfectly honest, highly intelligent but down-to-earth scientist, following the data even if it seems to lead into "the great unknown". Just the opposite of a charlatan or a kook IMO.

So what do you do if he says he's seen a light anomaly flashing back at them when they pointed a laser towards it? What of the daylight sighting (outside of the Hessdalen valley) in the interview I posted above, of something that looked like a black hole in the sky, where he had the feeling he was looking into another universe (heard that one before, didn't we?).

Don't know about you guys, but I tend to believe him.

EDIT btw, what do you think of these fotos, taken by a german amateur fotographer in a remote part of the Black Forest? He's been taking these photographs since the 70s and sometimes gets mentioned in local newspapers but never in bigger media (if they did they would probably ridicule him). Think it might be worth my time looking into that?

 

[ProphetofOccam]

Think it might be worth my time looking into that

If you have the interest, anything is probably worth your time. Is this a person near you? If so, what was your plan for looking into it?

If nothing else, it could just be an interesting experience. That's always good.

 

[Polterwurst]

Is this a person near you? If so, what was your plan for looking into it?

The southern Black Forest is about six hours by car south of where I am. I guess the best case scenario would be to try to contact the photographer (the last fotos are from around 2010 so he should still be living there). The text gives his full name and the area where he lives, so it should be possible to find him.

If that doesn't work out, I can still find the observation points where he says he took these photographs. I guess in both cases that means I would have to spend dozens of nights out there to get maybe one sighting and even that might probably turn out be a helicopter or a chinese lantern or something.

I mean, that guy lives down there, he's observing the skies most nights and always has a camera nearby, that's probably why he gets these more anomalous-looking fotos every other year or something. But if you only drop by in your holidays or over one or two weekends, chances are you won't get anything for months or years, I'd estimate.

Hessdalen seems to be an exception in that sightings are much more frequent than in other places, after what I've heard, but still nowadays they are at approx. one per month (whereas there is said to have been at least 5 good sightings a week back in 81 to 85). But the Black Forest sure is a nice place for a holiday, if you're into nature and walking through forests, which I am. So I think I'll give it a shot.

 

[ProphetofOccam]

Maybe Chris can give you some pointers, since he's done a lot of that. For a different perspective, maybe even Lance could give you some questions/procedures to use, to satisfy more skeptical perceptions.

Have you done other investigations?

 

[Polterwurst]

Have you done other investigations?

No. When you go and ask questions about these things around here, you're considered a nutcase in no time.

For a different perspective, maybe even Lance could give you some questions/procedures to use, to satisfy more skeptical perceptions.

I have a feeling he'll show me the door if I ask those. Looks like he thinks it's ET.

 

[Burnt State]

...btw, what do you think of these fotos, taken by a german amateur fotographer in a remote part of the Black Forest? He's been taking these photographs since the 70s and sometimes gets mentioned in local newspapers but never in bigger media (if they did they would probably ridicule him). Think it might be worth my time looking into that?

I think that each of the double light trails culminating in big bursts of light tell us that these look like car headlamps, as if the vehicle was driving on a curved road at first and then driving more straight towards the photographer on a long exposure. I can't read German - how is he describing his exposures for these shots as they all look like long exposures tracking moving lights from cars mostly? But, I agree, having a nice visit, walking through the forest and seeing for yourself how this all works for yourself would be nice.

Can you still get Most this time of the year or is that pressed apple alcoholic farm booze only available in the summer?

Check out this debunking of a famous ghost light in the US.

 

[Polterwurst]

I think that each of the double light trails culminating in big bursts of light tell us that these look like car headlamps, as if the vehicle was driving on a curved road at first and then driving more straight towards the photographer on a long exposure.

Yeah, the twin lights do look suspicious, that's what I felt. Car lights obviously come to mind. I'm afraid the text doesn't mention exposure times for the two upmost series of pics, but further down there is some data. But I'll start at the beginning.

The upmost picture and the one directly underneath to the left are from the „beginning“ phase of the first sighting documented on this page. The next two rows (6 pics) show what happened after that. This is a rough translation/summary of the accompanying text:

The sighting, documented in six further phases, lasted approx. 20 minutes. At first, the object showed itself as a reddishly flickering single source of energy which then rapidly changed into a pair of glowing white spheres. When they later faded, their color became a pale red again. After standing still for approx. 3 minutes, they left, vanishing in the distance as a single red dot.

The desription for the second twin lights (pictures 9 to 11, filenames 1.jpg, 1a.jpg, 1b.jpg):

When the two observers were on their way home in their car, after they had waited for the lights to show up for nearly two hours, they suddenly saw two huge bright light orbs above the horizon east of the Feldberg (highest mountain of the Black Forest). They were flying towards St. Märgen at high speed, changing to a slightly slanted position. Approx. half of the twin object covered the fir tree tops, the other half was seen against the night sky. The objects retained their intense white glow during the whole sighting (about 7 minutes until the objects „extinguished“). The two objects were seperated slightly but seemed to be connected by a sort of energy veil. An orange glow (aura) surrounded both.

OK, now for images 34 to 36 where the fotographer gives some technical detail. I encourage you especially to enlarge the middle one (just click on it), it looks really crazy. The file name is 1992_01_26_1840_2.jpg. All other pics can be enlarged, too, to get a closer look.

Camera used: Olympus OM2, lens: Vivitar 400 mm, 2x Converter, mounted, 1600 ASA Film,
times of exposure: from 1/15 to 1/60 sec

The accompanying text says:

sudden apparition of twin spheres object which remained stationary for just a few seconds. When moving, it took on a spiral trajectory (the middle picture), then slowly a wavelike trajectory, until it „extinguished“. 15 minutes later the object showed up again for a second.

The car headlight explanation seems to be the most rational, of course, but there are quite a few elements that don't fit.

- Why did the guys have to wait for hours a time just to see car lights? No area in Germany could be that remote that you wouldn't have cars going by frequently (the photographer lives in the area, watches the evening and night sky regularly with his camera in hand and still has made only relatively few photos in nearly 40 years, cars should be more frequent than that).

- What are the headlights, if that's what they are, reflected off? The sky seems overcast in most of the pics, but the lights don't look as if they are reflected off clouds or atmospheric layers, they look voluminous and free-standing (or flying).

-What about the light that seemed to be in front of the treetops? If there was a high road behind the fir trees, the light should have been behind them.

- How do you account for the stranger pics, like the spirals in the picture mentioned above? Or the "fireworks-pillar" in pictures 19 - 22? I have difficulties relating those to headlights or any normal source of light on the ground.

EDIT: btw, Most is seasonal, because there's eventually too much alcohol in it I guess, so no Most in winter

As for the Paulding lights (hadn't heard of them before), as I said, sometimes people want to see something, especially if the place has a reputation. But judging from the recorded footage, I can't imagine anyone looking at them for a while (I guess cars are quite frequent there) even with only half a sceptical eye and not coming up with the headlight explanation.

 

[Polterwurst]

Come to think of it - did you notice the photograph of the twisting blue light? Isn't it strange that it is reminiscent of the later 'Norway Spiral' ? What is it with these blue spirals? I am convinced there is a connection. This could warrant a thread methinks. How say you?

For the more spiritually inclined, here is a podcast I just listened to, of a speech by Mr Jonathan Zap about the "singularity archetype". Among a wild variety of things (sci fi books and movies, consciousness, "the singularity") , he talks about spirals as a symbol of the latter. One description is very reminiscent of the Norway spiral video, although he doesn't mention it. Also, what the heck did Arthur C. Clarke know? He seems to have written about things like NDEs and Hessdalen-type lights long before they were named that. And UFOs of course.

And yes, I'm beginning to think this could warrant a thread of its own, although I still believe it might have been a rocket. Maybe the collective unconscious / the universe / the great singularity uses rockets nowadays.

 

[Bits Missing]

I think that Paul Devereux would also make a good guest. I think he was involved in the Hessdalen project back in the eighties and certainly covered it in his (recommended) book Earth Lights Revelation.

One poster above mentioned mineral content etc. The book covers this in much detail and conjectures that many lights in the sky are some unknown energy generated by tectonic pressure along fault lines and the book went on to describe experiments showing rock glowing in the lab when subjected to intense pressure.

It is a fascinating theory and does correlate phenomena to fault lines and areas of geological interest and links these to folklore and place names e.g. the boggart stones etc. He lost me a little when he uses the electromagnetic field explanation and it's effect on human perception to explain away high strangeness cases and anything more detailed than lights in the sky. I think there is merit in that theory but it cannot explain away the other inconvenient cases that are not so easily explained as earth lights as he might wish it to.

Mr Devereux went on to write a number of books an ancient earth mysteries, shamanic traditions, stone circles etc so would probably make an excellent all round Paracast guest

 

[Jeff Davis]

Enjoy! This is very interesting.

http://www.itacomm.net/PH/2013_Monari_et-al-en.pdf

 

[Burnt State]

I'll give it a shot...thanx 4 the reminder...

Any word on trying to get a show on the Hessdalen phenomenon?

 

[Polterwurst]

Seems to be an interesting youtube channel. Kinda like the antithesis of the brothers who shan't be named.

 

[Polterwurst]

This seems to be footage of a single object filmed recently at Hessdalen. Just found it on Facebook, posted by Mrs Alison Kruse and thought I'd share. Might be a chinese lantern, though, you never know if there aren't any jokers in Hessdalen, too. No strange manoeuvering, no multiplying etc.

 

[Polterwurst]

Hessdalen - a battery?

This is a PDF of the "geographical battery" theory which was recently put forward by the italian scientists involved in the Hessdalen phenomena research. Basically, as I understood it, it says that the Hessdalen lights might be clouds of "cold plasma" ignited by solar wind, cosmic rays or maybe radioactive processes in the atmosphere, and sustained by the fact that the whole valley acts as a giant "battery" with different elements in the surface providing the electrical charges. The lights (which don't necessarily have to be in the visible spectrum) then travel along the field lines between the poles of that battery.

Asked about this theory, Erling Strand, founder of the Hessdalen project and longest-standing scientific observer and researcher of the phenomena, says that he doesn't agree with the theory as being the overall explanation. I'm translating from a statement he has given to the german site "grenzwissenschaft-aktuell.de" (IMO a very decent and balanced site, which is very credible):

grenz|wissenschaft-aktuell: Geologische Batterie? Italienische Wissenschaftler liefern neue Hypothese zu Hessdalen-UFOs

"The main reason being that the light phenomena don't originate only near the river or between the mountains in the East and West of the valley. They show up in other places. Also, it seems improbable that a weak electrical field force like that can lead to these lights. One would expect that they would mainly turn up between the poles of this 'battery', as the field forces would be stronger there, but that isn't the case.

The hypothesis has to be explored further, though. I'm always delighted when new theories are put forward and tested. I believe Mr Monari looks at this theory as being a starting point for further work himself. The fact that the media present this theory as the explanation for the Hessdalen phenomena is very premature and unfortunate."

As you can see in the PDF, in the conclusion, the theory itself says that it's nothing more than speculation yet.