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How Silly is Climate Change Denial?

Free episodes:

The following book is old news at 3-4 years - that's how fast the scene is moving.

Eaarth: Making a Life on a Tough New Planet
by Bill McKibben (March 15, 2011)
TEXT: " "Read it, please. Straight through to the end. Whatever else you were planning to do next, nothing could be more important." —Barbara Kingsolver

"Twenty years ago, with The End of Nature, Bill McKibben offered one of the earliest warnings about global warming. Those warnings went mostly unheeded; now, he insists, we need to acknowledge that we've waited too long, and that massive change is not only unavoidable but already under way. Our old familiar globe is suddenly melting, drying, acidifying, flooding, and burning in ways that no human has ever seen. We've created, in very short order, a new planet, still recognizable but fundamentally different. We may as well call it Eaarth.

"That new planet is filled with new binds and traps. A changing world costs large sums to defend—think of the money that went to repair New Orleans, or the trillions it will take to transform our energy systems. But the endless economic growth that could underwrite such largesse depends on the stable planet we've managed to damage and degrade. We can't rely on old habits any longer.

"Our hope depends, McKibben argues, on scaling back—on building the kind of societies and economies that can hunker down, concentrate on essentials, and create the type of community (in the neighborhood, but also on the Internet) that will allow us to weather trouble on an unprecedented scale. Change—fundamental change—is our best hope on a planet suddenly and violently out of balance."


Thom Hartmann -
Caller: How do we Talk to Climate Change Deniers?


There is always a call for 'facts' and yet the facts are not faced. The deniers are rejecting the science - rejecting the evidence. What is deceptive is that what is taking place on the thread makes it sound like the science really is 'not settled' - when it is. The world is moving on. Solutions are in the process of being dealt with. We are living in a different world. It is changing by the year.

One has to wonder why the warming cannot - must not - be because of human action. I find that assertion odd - taken by itself. But of course the reason that it must not be human activity is because the status quo does not want there to be any changes. Always remember, the status quo is being subsidized by governments. Maintaining the status quo is costing us lots of money, lots of tax dollars. Certain industries have a cash cow and don't want it messed with. The truth is alternative energy sources will be far less expensive for everyone.

Interview with Bill McKibben: 'When the History of This Time Is Written' by Aiko Stevenson
Posted: 11/10/2014 5:08 pm EST Updated: 11/10/2014
LINK: Interview with Bill McKibben: 'When the History of This Time Is Written' | Aiko Stevenson

TEXT: " "When the history of this time is written, Shell will get more than a footnote," noted American author, turned climate activist Bill McKibben whilst speaking at the London School of Economics last week. Having just come from a climate conference sponsored by the Anglo Dutch oil giant, the irony of the juxtaposition certainly wasn't lost on him: "They were the company that when it emerged that the Arctic had melted thanks to our efforts, they didn't say: "Perhaps, we should stop what we are doing." Instead it said: "Oh, this will make it easier to drill for more oil up in the Arctic."

"McKibben's disparaging remarks came two days after the United Nations issued it's"final warning" on the ever-alarming state of our climate. Six months after it revealed that the scathing impacts of global warming will leave "no one untouched", the Nobel Peace prize-winning body has now warned that its impacts will eventually become "severe, pervasive, and irreversible." Having penned one of the first books about climate change some 25 years ago, McKibben presumed that "reason" would ultimately prevail. And, named by Foreign Policy as one of the top 100 thinkers of our time, he ought to have been right.

"Yet, during the course of that time, the concentration of carbon dioxide in our atmosphere has continued to soar past one record high after another. And, last September, the UN revealed that our planet is warming much faster than originally expected. World temperatures may now race past the life-threatening four degrees celsius mark well before the turn of this century. Citing a recent Stanford University report, McKibben says that "if the temperature goes up by two or three degrees, then the number of calories on the planet goes down 30 percent." One need only remember the food riots of 2008 to imagine what lies in wait.

"According to the UN, we still have time to avoid such a destructive fate. But, global carbon emissions will have to approach zero by the end of this century. That means that three quarters of existing fossil fuel reserves will need to stay in the ground. And, considering that nearly a quarter of the world's electricity came from green energy sources last year, it ought to be an achievable task. Yet, in spite of the alarming state of the science, McKibben says that oil giants like BP, Exxon and Shell are still allowed to plunder the earth in search for even more hydrocarbons. And, to make matters worse, governments pay them nearly $2 trillion every year to do it: "I think what scares me the most about climate change," says McKibben, when I talked to him earlier in the day, "is that our species, which has been given consciousness and foresight, is making the decision to not do anything. It's such a depressing commentary on the human race."

"Concluding that writing yet another book "wasn't going to move the needle very much", eight years ago, McKibben, together with seven students, started to build 350.org, a social movement designed to take on the fossil fuel industry. It may be a classic case of David versus Goliath, but since then it has launched one of the fastest growing divestment movements in history. Modeled on the same campaign used to help bring down apartheid in South Africa, it has been steadily encouraging investors to shift their money out of dirty fossil fuels. And, this September, it spearheaded the largest climate march in history. Timed to take place two days before world leaders gathered in New York for an emergency UN climate summit, more than half a million people in over 160 nations across the globe, took to the streets to call on their governments to prevent the catastrophic warming of our planet: "It was beautiful to see," recalled McKibben, to the packed lecture hall.

"But, the sweetest development of all was when the Rockefeller brothers announced that they were divesting their holdings out of fossil fuels. They were the original fossil fuel fortune. And it was their heirs who decided that it was no longer prudent, nor moral to be investing in this stuff. It was an important moment. Addressing world leaders two days later, U.S. president Barack Obama said: "Our citizens keep marching. We cannot pretend we do not hear them. We have to answer the call."

"America has now pledged to set the pace in all important climate talks in 2015. And, China has also promised to bring something meaningful to the table too. With the world's two largest polluters on board, there are now hopes that a strong treaty may be signed in Paris next December. But, when I asked McKibben what he thought, he said: "Something will happen in Paris, but it won't be enough. It could be helpful. But, I'm afraid that we will be working just as hard a day after Paris, as we will the day before."

"Adopting a similar indifference towards politics, he says that the outcome of the recent U.S. midterms, or the 2016 presidential race is inconsequential: "Our job is to change the zeitgeist. It makes it somewhat easier to have someone in power who is congenial. But, I know that Nixon timed every piece of important environmental legislation in history because 20 million people came out for Earth Day in 1970. I'm more worried about making that happen than who we are electing."

"According to McKibben, the solution lies in building "enough pressure within the system" so that "political change is inevitable," regardless of who is in the White House. Winner of the 2013 Gandhi Peace Prize, McKibben has come a long way considering that campaigning "wasn't a natural move" for him: "I'm not an orator, organizer, or activist. Like most writers, i'm an introvert. It's really nice to be with you all," he tells students, "but i would rather be at home typing." However, as Frederic Douglas, a former slave turned abolitionist once said: "Power concedes nothing without a fight. It never did, and it never will."

"And, much like the abolition of slavery, the end of apartheid, and the spread of universal suffrage, "history is our proof that the impossible is smaller than we think,"wrote a group of NGO's in the Guardian earlier this year. Standing on the front lines of our current battle to save our climate, McKibben says: "There is absolutely no guarantee that we can win this fight. Some scientists say that it's already too late. But, I don't know. I know that the best science indicates that we still have a shot. And, one thing that I'm certain of is: at least there's going to be a fight."
 
With the US getting off its dependency on oil - something Jimmy Carter stated we needed to do back in the 70's - that will be a global game-changer of massive proportions. The oil-rich Arab states flying high on oil revenues will see a dramatic dip in wealth. I guarantee you that they do not want to see that. The US will have no reason to be meddling in countries with oil reserves. Huge geo-political changes. The US funnels a boggling amount of its wealth into the military. Imagine, we will divert that money to local and national projects. But between 'this here' and 'that there' sits the massive resistance of the status quo - the carefully indoctrinated deniers, the modern equivalent of the luddites who will not see what must be done to re-make the way we do things on a global scale. No imagination. Anyway, the world moves on. The facts are the facts and far fewer are ignoring the facts than one may be led to believe. The world is shifting. The times they are a-changing.

[Note: "If we had followed President Carter's lead, we would have been on the same track as Brazil - who started their journey to energy independence at the same time President Carter was attempting to. Brazil is practically close to 100% energy independent now because of this. With our technological superiority we would have long past been so, and without the issue of having our national interests tied to oil access to the Middle East we would not have had to have a presence in that region giving them an excuse to have conflict with us. We actually get a great deal of our oil from Canada and Mexico. There are only 2 countries from the Middle East who are even in the top 10 of importers to the US, but we involve ourselves because our military needs access to that regions oil."]

Toyota hopes to recreate Prius success with hydrogen-powered Mirai:
Toyota is betting on its hydrogen fuel cell Mirai as the next generation of green car, but they face a hard sell to replicate popularity of their top-selling Prius
LINK: Toyota hopes to recreate Prius success with hydrogen-powered Mirai | Environment | The Guardian

TEXT: "From the driver’s seat of the Toyota Mirai, the world’s first mass-produced hydrogen fuel cell car could be a plusher and more powerful version of the Prius – if it wasn’t for the H20 button on the dash which releases a trickle of water. Until now, car companies have been slow to bring hydrogen fuel cell vehicles to market. But Toyota is betting on the Mirai (‘future’ in Japanese) to emerge as the next generation of green car. For that to occur, the four-seater sedan will need to replicate the success of the Prius in taking the offbeat technology of a gas-electric hybrid engine and making it middle of the road within the space of only a few years. The Prius is now the top-selling car in California.

"The Mirai goes on sale in Japan in December, and in the US and Europe in the second half of 2015. The initial release will be limited - just 700 globally, with only 50-100 expected to be shipped to the UK, Germany and Denmark in Europe. The car will sell for $69,000 (£44,000) in Japan, $57,500 in the US and €66,000 (£52,000) in Europe. In the US, a package of government subsidies could bring the price down to about $45,000. But even at those high prices, Toyota is still losing money on each car, analysts said.

"The hydrogen fuel cells power electric motors like battery-powered vehicles do. But instead of storing the energy in a battery pack, the fuel cell vehicles store hydrogen gas in an onboard tank that can be refilled in minutes, just like a gas tank. The car has a number of advantages over electric vehicles. Hydrogen can power bigger vehicles – the former governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger, famously converted his Hummer to hydrogen. Fuel cell vehicles have a longer range. Toyota says the Mirai can run about 300 miles on a single tank of compressed hydrogen, compared to about 75 miles for most electric vehicles, and – unlike electric vehicles – the Mirai can be refuelled in minutes from compressed hydrogen. In case of a natural disaster or other emergency a full tank produces enough electricity to power the average home for close to a week. But Toyota executives admit the Mirai will be a different and a harder sell than the Prius.

"Once you have purchased the Mirai, where do you fill it up? So far, there are barely a dozen hydrogen fuelling stations in California, all but one clustered around the Orange County area. “In the case of the Prius, as an automaker we had to work really hard to sell more Priuses, and so forth, but that was it,” said Satoshi Ogiso, the managing officer. “For fuel cell vehicles, it’s not only the vehicle sales. We also have to make sure the infrastructure is in place.”

"To fill the gap, Toyota is prepared to offer its customers in California free fuel for months, if not years. The car maker also announced plans this week to partner with Air Liquide, a global producer of hydrogen, to develop fuelling stations in north-eastern states before the cars go on sale there in 2016. But Toyota says it remains convinced that the car, whose only emissions are the water vapours from its tailpipe, will thrive in a carbon-constrained future. It says it intends the Mirai to be the first of an entire line-up of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. “Prius broke down barriers. The hydrogen fuel cell technology in the new Mirai will do the same,” the company’s chairman, Takeshi Uchiyamada, said. Not everyone agrees. The Obama administration over the last six years has offered financial support to electric vehicles, while phasing out government supports for hydrogen. Elon Musk, the founder of Tesla, famously dismissed the idea of hydrogen cars as rubbish.

"But a number of car makers are beginning to pay more attention to hydrogen technology. Honda said this week it would begin sales of its hydrogen car in 2016. Hyundai has started leasing a fuel cell version of its Tucson SUV in California. Ford, Daimler, Renault and Nissan are working to develop a joint fuel cell technology project. Newport Beach – where the multi-layer yachts in the harbour look like floating wedding cakes – may not seem the obvious hub for the hydrogen highway. But all but one of the dozen fuelling stations are clustered in southern California, including one that makes hydrogen out of waste from a water treatment plant.

"At the press launch in a local resort, some journalists grumbled about the styling. The front of the Mirai, with its big headlamps and wide grill, outlined with LED lights, looks like a big-eyed anime character, strangely retro for a car designed to represent the future. Toyota says it was built that way to increase airflow to cool the radiators. The car has noticeably more power than a Prius, and is even quieter, except for a high-pitched whir on accelerating. The front seat of the car is spacious, but only two people can ride in the back seat, which is divided by a big console. The three-tiered instrument panel combines touchscreen and other controls, which is a bit confusing.

"A journalist from the Daily Telegraph asks: what will happen if the car ever becomes popular? Is there a danger, in cold weather, of all of those trickles of water turning the streets of major metropolitan areas into gigantic sheets of ice? That day may still seem far off. But Alberto Ayala, the deputy director of California’s Air Resources Board, the state regulator, argued the state was at a tipping point. Earlier this year, the California Energy Commission awarded $50 million in grants to companies building 28 hydrogen fuelling stations next year. The state is committed to building up a network of 100 such stations over the next 10 years. “We are 110% behind this,” Ayala said. “We think that all the indicators are there that this truly is the turning point for this technology,” Ayala said. California has set a goal of having 1.5m zero-emission cars on the roads by 2025. It wants electric vehicles and hydrogen cars to make up 15% of all new car sales that same year.

"That kind of government intervention could make all the difference for the adoption of zero-emission cars. “For me in the near term, fuel cell vehicles will probably not make up as high a share of new vehicle sales as electric vehicles (EV) but then it depends on how these different technologies evolve together, in terms of battery technology and range, and on what governments do. A lot of the EV market is policy driven so it depends on what governments do in terms of subsidies,” said Stephanie Adam, a transport analyst at Bloomberg New EnergyFinance.

"Cars and trucks are the second biggest source of carbon pollution that causes climate change, after energy. Global emissions from transport are expected to rise, as more cars come on to the roads in the developing world. Getting those cars off fossil fuels is painfully slow. Fifteen years after the introduction of the first hybrid car, hybrid and electric vehicles account for only a small fraction of global vehicle scales. Even in Norway, where the government has slashed taxes, EVs account for only about 15% of car sales. “The difficulty is that we need to compete with gasoline engines,” said Katsuhiko Hirose, who has led the company’s research into hydrogen cars. “I always say it’s like you are a monk, not able to eat meat, and you have to compete with Olympic athletes. So I think unless the customer widely accepts the fuel cell vehicle, unless you have tens of thousands of vehicles on the road, you can not change. “If you really want low-carbon transport in 2030 or even 2040 or 2050, you need to start now.” "

 
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One of my favorite poems - LINK: Ode (O'Shaughnessy) - Wikisource, the free online library

Ode
by Arthur O'Shaughnessy
1844–1881

We are the music makers,
And we are the dreamers of dreams,
Wandering by lone sea-breakers,
And sitting by desolate streams;—
World-losers and world-forsakers, 5
On whom the pale moon gleams:
Yet we are the movers and shakers
Of the world for ever, it seems.

With wonderful deathless ditties
We build up the world's great cities, 10
And out of a fabulous story
We fashion an empire's glory:
One man with a dream, at pleasure,
Shall go forth and conquer a crown;
And three with a new song's measure 15
Can trample a kingdom down.

We, in the ages lying
In the buried past of the earth,
Built Nineveh with our sighing,
And Babel itself in our mirth; 20
And o'erthrew them with prophesying
To the old of the new world's worth;
For each age is a dream that is dying,
Or one that is coming to birth.

A breath of our inspiration 25
Is the life of each generation;
A wondrous thing of our dreaming
Unearthly, impossible seeming—
The soldier, the king, and the peasant
Are working together in one, 30
Till our dream shall become their present,
And their work in the world be done.

They had no vision amazing
Of the goodly house they are raising;
They had no divine foreshowing 35
Of the land to which they are going:
But on one man's soul it hath broken,
A light that doth not depart;
And his look, or a word he hath spoken,
Wrought flame in another man's heart. 40

And therefore today is thrilling
With a past day's late fulfilling;
And the multitudes are enlisted
In the faith that their fathers resisted,
And, scorning the dream of to-morrow, 45
Are bringing to pass, as they may,
In the world, for its joy or its sorrow,
The dream that was scorned yesterday.

But we, with our dreaming and singing,
Ceaseless and sorrowless we! 50
The glory about us clinging
Of the glorious futures we see,
Our souls with high music ringing:
O men! it must ever be
That we dwell, in our dreaming and singing, 55
A little apart from ye.

For we are afar with the dawning
And the suns that are not yet high,
And out of the infinite morning
Intrepid you hear us cry— 60
How, spite of your human scorning,
Once more God's future draws nigh,
And already goes forth the warning
That ye of the past must die.

Great hail! we cry to the comers 65
From the dazzling unknown shore;
Bring us hither your sun and your summers;
And renew our world as of yore;
You shall teach us your song's new numbers,
And things that we dreamed not before: 70
Yea, in spite of a dreamer who slumbers,
And a singer who sings no more.
 
Now, seriously..they should just show this thread on a big screen in your and mine respective parliaments whenever the issue comes up again (when there isn't an imminent threat (yeah, right..)).I have to applaud both of you.And I gladly do. :)
 
1998 Revisited

Because this fiction gets endlessly repeated I will go into Skeptical Science - which is a compendium of peer-reviewed science that always corrects itself as it moves forward. This latter aspect seems to be glossed over. Or perhaps its what makes it feel 'unsteady' because science 'should' be fixed - as in a fixed point of ultimate truth - but it isn't. The ball keeps moving, albeit in a definite trajectory.

What has global warming done since 1998?
LINK: What has global warming done since 1998?
What the science says: "The planet has continued to accumulate heat since 1998 - global warming is still happening. Nevertheless, surface temperatures show much internal variability due toheat exchange between the ocean and atmosphere. 1998 was an unusually hot year due to a strong El Nino."
Climate Myth: "It hasn't warmed since 1998. For the years 1998-2005, temperature did not increase. This period coincides with society's continued pumping of more CO2 into the atmosphere. (Bob Carter)" [In a comment it is stated: "According to Carter the slope is indeed negative since then. However, I believe he is quite clear in saying the amount is not really significant. The data above does not match the data set he is using." The response of SkS: "I have corresponded with Bob Carter about the data he uses - in articles where he states the temperature trend is negligible or even cooling, he's erroneously using upper troposphere data. See the footnote of Satellites show no warming."]

Peppered through this article are visuals/graphics. Author states: "I've kept my original treatment of the subject as other websites hotlink to the images. My original treatment uses similar arguments to Fawcett and Jones 2008 although their analysis is much more rigorous (as you'd expect in a peer-reviewed paper)." Article last updated in November 2013.

TEXT: "To claim global warming stopped in 1998 overlooks one simple physical reality - the land and atmosphere are just a small fraction of the Earth's climate (albeit the part we inhabit). The entire planet is accumulating heat due to an energy imbalance. The atmosphere is warming. Oceans are accumulating energy. Land absorbs energy and ice absorbs heat to melt. To get the full picture on global warming, you need to view the Earth's entire heat content.

"This analysis is performed in An observationally based energy balance for the Earth since 1950 (Murphy 2009) which adds up heat content from the ocean, atmosphere, land and ice. To calculate the Earth's total heat content, the authors used data of ocean heat content from the upper 700 metres. They included heat content from deeper waters down to 3000 metres depth. They computed atmospheric heat content using the surface temperature record and the heat capacity of the troposphere. Land and ice heat content (the energy required to melt ice) were also included.

"A look at the Earth's total heat content clearly shows global warming has continued past 1998. The planet is still accumulating heat. So why do surface temperature records show 1998 as the hottest year on record? We see in Figure 1 that the heat capacity of the land and atmosphere is small compared to the ocean. Hence, relatively small exchanges of heat between the atmosphere and ocean can cause significant changes in surface temperature.

"In 1998, an abnormally strong El Nino caused heat transfer from the Pacific Ocean to theatmosphere. Consequently, we experienced above average surface temperatures. Conversely, the last few years have seen moderate La Nina conditions which had a cooling effect on global temperatures. And the last few months have swung back to warmer El Nino conditions. This has coincided with the warmest June-August sea surface temperatures on record. This internal variation where heat is shuffled around our climate is the reason why surface temperature is such a noisy signal.

"Using moving averages to discern the long-term trend
"With so much internal variability, scientists employ statistical methods to discern long-term trends in surface temperature. The easiest way to remove short-term variations, revealing any underlying trend, is to plot a moving average, performed in Waiting for Cooling (Fawcett & Jones 2008) . Figure 2 displays the 11-year moving average - an average calculated over the year itself and five years either side. They've used three different data-sets - NCDC,NASA GISS and the British HadCRUT3. In all three data-sets, the moving average shows no sign that the warming trend has reversed.

"The linear trend since 1997 or 1998
"Next, Fawcett and Jones look for a cooling trend in the 10 years since 1998. They find the linear trend over 1998 to 2007 is a warming trend in all three data-sets. Note that HadCRUT3 displays less warming than NASA GISS and NCDC. This is most likely due to the fact that HadCRUT data doesn't cover parts of the Arctic where there has been strong warming in recent years.

"Cowtan & Way (2013) also evaluates global surface warming across the globe by using a statistical method known as 'kriging' andby using satellite data to fill in the gaps where there are no temperature stations. Their study shows that the global surface warming trend for 1997–2012 is approximatley 0.11 to 0.12°C per decade.

"Removing the El Niño signal from the temperature record
The reason that 1998 was such an anomalously warm year was due to a strong El Niño that year. Fawcett and Jones remove the El Niño Southern Oscillation (ENSO) signal by calculating a linear regression of global temperatures against the Southern OscillationIndex. A detailed description of the process is found in Fawcett 2007. The result is shown in Figure 4.

"All 3 data sets demonstrate that the anomalously hot 1998 was due to the strong El Niño of 1997/98. When ENSO-adjusted, 1998 looks much less remarkable than it does in the original data. In all 3 ENSO-adjusted data-sets, 2006 is the hottest year on record and the trend from 1998 to 2007 is that of warming.

"Removing other Exogeneous Factors
"In addition to removing the ENSO signlal, Foster and Rahmstorf (2011) used multiple linear regression to remove the effects of solar and volcanic activity from the surface and lowertroposphere temperature data. Their results are shown in Figure 6.

"When removing these short-term effects, the warming trend has barely even slowed since 1998 (0.163°C per decade from 1979 through 2010, vs. 0.155°C per decade from 1998 through 2010, and 0.187°C per decade for 2000 through 2010).

"Is 1998 actually the hottest year on record?
"Of the three surface temperature records (HadCRUT3, NASA GISS, and NCDC), onlyHadCRUT3 actually shows 1998 as the hottest year on record. For NASA GISS and NCDC, the hottest year on record is 2005. A new independent analysis of the HadCRUT recordsheds light on this discrepancy. The analysis is by the European Centre for Medium-Range Weather Forecasts (ECMWF) who calculated global temperature, utilizing a range ofsources including surface temperature measurements, satellites, radiosondes, ships and buoys. They found warming has been higher than that shown by HadCRUT. This is because HadCRUT is sampling regions that have exhibited less change, on average, than the entire globe.

"Figure 6 shows the regions that HadCRUT have sampled compared to the regions ECMWFincluded in their dataset. The ECMWF analysis shows that in data-sparse regions such as Russia, Africa and Canada, there is strong warming over land that is not included in the HadCRUT's sampling data. This leads the ECMWF to infer with high confidence that the HadCRUT record is at the lower end of likely warming.

"This result is not unexpected. NASA GISS find a major contributor to the record hot 2005 is the extreme warming in the Arctic (Hansen 2006). As there are few meteorological stations in the Arctic, NASA extrapolated temperature anomalies from the nearest measurement stations. They found the estimated strong Arctic warmth was consistent with infrared satellite measurements and record low sea ice concentrations."


As always, it is well worth going into the link to read the comments. By doing so you will get a more full sense of the (scientific) dialog in the matter. In no way is SkS deleting contrary views. Opposing views are in full view. Article author responds as a poster when not posting as Editor.
 
Regarding the above article this exchange between a poster and the author seems pertinent as to tone of response from genuine 'science types' seeking to understand. This is not a brawl. The one who shouts the loudest or calls out the rudest names doesn't 'win'.

Comment: "at 18:53 PM on 12 January, 2012
Could you please add a direct rebuttal to the following article by Singer?

Lack of consistency between modeled and observed temperature trends
It attacks CCSP's modeling as being "an artifact." "

Author Response: "at 10:33 AM on 13 January, 2012
"It is not within my sphere of expertise to post a formal rebuttal, but I note two telling points:
1) It is an opinion piece, an article, not a peer-reviewed scientific paper;
2) Note the provenance: it was published in ENERGY & ENVIRONMENT VOLUME 22 No. 4 2011, which is an organ of the fossil fuel industry, not a scientific journal.

"So, the article fails the test of credibility right at the outset. Prudence dictates it should be regarded as a suspect source unless and until it is published in the formal scientific manner. I note that Singer has authored work which has been debunked here and elsewhere, but I am not dismissing this article on that ground."

Author Response: "at 10:40 AM on 13 January, 2012
Sorry, meant to add this link to Sks debunking Singer:
Fred Singer Denies Global Warming "

Response: "at 01:41 AM on 14 January, 2012
"scienceteacher, you refer to CCSP modeling being an artifact, but actually Singer's claim is that Santer et al 2008's finding of consistency between modelled and observed results is "an artifact"... CCSP 2006 is mentioned in that section only as sharing some of the same authors as the Santer study.

"Singer makes a number of claims about the Santer study, but the primary one is that the modeled results do not match UAH satellite observations. This is essentially the same song and dance we've been hearing from Spencer & Christy (the developers of the UAH record) and debunked here.

"Finally, his history should be considered. This is Fred Singer. Name a major instance of 'scientific' denial in the past 40 years and he has been part of it. Tobacco doesn't cause cancer, asbestos is safe, acid rain doesn't exist, there is no danger from ozone depletion, et cetera... he was involved in all of them. No, his track record does not prove that he is wrong about AGW too... but it certainly shouldn't inspire confidence."
 
Tyger give it up on SS. They control the peer review and their comment section to their benefit. Do an ounce of research!
And quit being a baby and take me off ignore.
 
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You are looking completely ridiculous. I urge you to look at the real science.


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Do you realize you are getting your "science" from a washed up cartoonist and a soft porn writing ex railroad engineer?


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JohnCookSkep190.jpg


John Cook, the creator of the Skeptical Science blog, Australian Journo and Climate Change guru.



I was just reading a few poll's, ya average yank aint to bright are they pixel.

The poll was taken about obama's global warming ''tweet''.

42% believed in climate change.

[ which i thought was pretty good that 42% of yanks actually noticed something thats been happning for millions of years ]

23% were not sure.

26% did not believe in man made global warming

7% asked what is a tweet ?.

2% asked who is obama ?.


A skeptical science survey says that 98.76% of people who agreed with obamas tweet on global warming also believe in climate change 98.76%, thats nearly 100% percent of people who believe in climate change claims Mr cook.
 
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02ccf79904f4120643ac7c8f8657b4a9.jpg

Rajendra K. Pachauri with his smut book about a climate scientist's sexual encounters.
This ex railroad engineer is who these alarmists get their data from. Scary.

He is a perverted corrupt POS. The perfect guy to get your perverted corrupt science from Tyger! Lmfao
 
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So we have these two idiots, failed computer models and a faked 97% CONsensus driving Burnt and Tyger. Can you f'ing believe it?!?!?


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That's some real credible sources!
Tyger you can stop posting all that crap now. Nothing predicted by these idiots has happened so you should be rejoicing rather than making yourself look completely foolish.


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These Scientists reports and findings are just a few of the 100s that Cooke has [Cooked] either edited himself and then quoted on his blog, or one of his cohorts has edited, then quotes it in his blogs.

You got to watch it for the music alone, be happy.

 
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I am still waiting for Burnt to address the statement that all the glaciers are melting. Cmon Burnt at least be a man and admit you misspoke.
 
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Money speaks. Soft hearts lose.
The truth only whispers. It's the whaler's dues.
I've been running on diesel. Been running on coal.
Running on borrowed time, if truth's to be told.

Two whales in the ocean, cruising the night
search for each other before we turn out their light.
Been accused of deep murder on the North Atlantic swell,
but I have three hungry children and a young wife as well.

And behind stand generations of hard hunting men,
who raised a glass to the living, and went killing again.
Are you with me?
(No!)

Money speaks, soft hearts lose.
The truth only whispers. Now pay the whaler's dues.
Can you forgive me?
(No!)

Now I'm old and I sit land-locked in a back-country jail
to reflect on all of my sins and the death of the whale.
Send me back down the ages. Put me to sea once again,
when the oceans were full yes, and men would be men.
Can you forgive me?
(No!)


The truth does indeed only wisper

If we ask the future "Can you forgive me?"

The answer will be NO !

Be not a cancer on the earth — Leave room for nature — Leave room for nature.
 
I am still waiting for Burnt to address the statement that all the glaciers are melting. Cmon Burnt at least be a man and admit you misspoke.

From here on out I have nothing to say to you as you've proven your incapacity to actually think through this subject in any thoughtful way at all.

As per usual the sources you cite are as ludicrous as your overall argument. So for once why not look a little more clearly at who you cite as your proof and recognize that in the discussion around climate change you are entirely out of your depths. I do this as a last act of civility in response to your immature and infantile taunting, combined with your own inability to deal with the complexities of the discussion.

You really need to stop wallowing around in this thread, dragging Manxman into your cesspool of pro-billionaire twaddle that you peddle as real science as use for arguments. All the time you blab on about peer reviewed material yet your own sources are pure bunk. Did you even take time to find out who your supposed glacier expert, Robert W. Felix is and where his sources come from!? Of course not because your lazy approach to research and science is typical of conspiracist thinkng. So instead of pretending to be so knowledgeable about any topic, and suggesting others go to the Meier thread (you obviously never read any of our other dicussions do you - you can't even recognize the gender of posters) while you hang out in the netherworld of climate denial posting silly junk science by architects and weatherman sponsored by the Koch brothers and oil industrialists. Really, you've embarrassed yourself enough now in case you couldn't recognize it.

So it's not my manhood in question - how immature can you get - it's your ability to find a fact in a warming climate that is seriously in question. Maybe you are suffering from brain fever?

"Is Felix a climatologist, a volcanologist or an oceanographer? Er, none of the above. His biography describes him as a "former architect". His website is so bonkers that I thought at first it was a spoof. Sadly, he appears to believe what he says. But there, indeed, was all the material that Bellamy cited in his letter, including the figures - or something resembling the figures - he quoted. "Since 1980, there has been an advance of more than 55% of the 625 mountain glaciers under observation by the World Glacier Monitoring group in Zurich." The source, which Bellamy also cited in his email to me, was given as "the latest issue of 21st Century Science and Technology".

21st Century Science and Technology? It sounds impressive, until you discover that it is published by Lyndon LaRouche. Lyndon LaRouche is the American demagogue who in 1989 received a 15-year sentence for conspiracy, mail fraud and tax-code violations. He has claimed that the British royal family is running an international drugs syndicate, that Henry Kissinger is a communist agent, that the British government is controlled by Jewish bankers, and that modern science is a conspiracy against human potential.

It wasn't hard to find out that this is one of his vehicles: LaRouche is named on the front page of the magazine's website, and the edition Bellamy cites contains an article beginning: "We in LaRouche's Youth Movement find ourselves in combat with an old enemy that destroys human beings ... it is empiricism."

Oh well, at least there is a source for Bellamy's figures. But where did 21st Century Science and Technology get them from? It doesn't say. But I think we can make an informed guess, for the same data can be found all over the internet. They were first published online by Professor Fred Singer, one of the very few climate change deniers who has a vaguely relevant qualification (he is, or was, an environmental scientist). He posted them on his website, SePP Home Page and they were then reproduced by the appropriately named junkscience.com, by the Cooler Heads Coalition, the US National Centre for Public Policy Research and countless others. They have even found their way into the Washington Post.

They are constantly quoted as evidence that man-made climate change is not happening. But where did they come from? Singer cites half a source: "A paper published in Science in 1989." Well, the paper might be 16 years old, but at least, and at last, there is one. Surely?

I went through every edition of Science published in 1989, both manually and electronically. Not only did it contain nothing resembling those figures, throughout that year there was no paper published in this journal about glacial advance or retreat.

So it wasn't looking too good for Bellamy, or Singer, or any of the deniers who have cited these figures. But there was still one mystery to clear up. While Bellamy's source claimed that 55% of 625 glaciers are advancing, Bellamy claimed that 555 of them - or 89% - are advancing. This figure appears to exist nowhere else. But on the standard English keyboard, 5 and % occupy the same key. If you try to hit %, but fail to press shift, you get 555, instead of 55%. This is the only explanation I can produce for his figure. When I challenged him, he admitted that there had been "a glitch of the electronics".

George Monbiot: Junk Science | Environment | The Guardian

Here's a site with real references for the above as opposed to the outright myths and lies you've been posting. Really, pixel, get a grip and move on. It's all over. You've exposed yourself too many times on this thread. Practice letting go.

Junk Science | George Monbiot
 
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