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Imbrogno, Fraud, Stolen Valor

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trainedobserver said:
I don't know, maybe that the phenomena is adaptive and directly concerned with manipulating the perception of the handful of people paying attention to it?

I really don't think that is happening. The drones are photoshop (or whatever) creations. People who are claiming to see them are lying or seeing something else (since you can't see a photoshop creation hanging in the sky in front of you). Is the phenomena messing with their minds? I'm betting Linda and Whitely are attempting that instead.
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Yeah, I don't hold a lot of stock in what LMH oe Strieber says, don't get me wrong. I just think it would be fascinating if people started to have "genuine" drone sightings. I know Christopher O'Brien has talked about that sort of thing.
 
trainedobserver said:
I just don't get your use of hyperbole tyder. Also, it is as though you are bored with the subject and wish everyone would just move on.
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That is pretty much always what happens when it becomes apparent one of the ufology icons is full of bs. Legitimate, substantiated evidence of fraud gets presented, and a percentage of people perpetually refuse to acknowledge what has taken place, if not outright silence and censor the speakers of truth who present said substantiated evidence.

This was good work, Lance. Well done.

I also appreciate Decker having the guts to take an honest look at the situation and, just as importantly, admit to himself and the rest of us that he was initially biased. Very well done, guys. Lots of thumbs up.
 
In another posting I made on this discussion board I said that Phillip Imbrogno was on of my favorite paracast shows and that I bought all of his books. I also felt that my BS detector was fully charged and ready to filter but I guess I better check the batteries.

The Stolen Valor issue is huge especially to people like Don who did serve. Now everything I have learned from Imbrogno is in my grey basket. One interesting tale he told was an series of incidents at the Indian Point reactor he said the staff there had see on more than one occasion a transparent alien type walking through the walls of the reactor with some sort of device. Later it was found that the reactor wall had a crack but it was gone after the Alien did his walk. OK I thought maybe our "space brothers" have our well being in mind and fixed a problem for us humans. Now because of this current problem Phil has I have my doubts if the incident really happened.

OK Phil you F ed up we all know your a human being and like all humans your not perfect. You need to face this head on and admit it like an adult. Don Ecker gave you a chance to say something when he sent you an email telling you he was going to investigate your military record but Don says you did not reply. Again my advice is to not hide behind a new phone number and a new email address but come out and make a statement.

Again I know your human and humans do stupid crap like this but come out come out where ever you are face the music.

Sparks
 
Sparks said:
Now because of this current problem Phil has I have my doubts if the incident really happened.
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Philip J. Imbrogno has been proven to be a bald-faced liar. Everything that he has written or said must be assumed to be a bald-faced lie until proven otherwise. To do anything else is simply setting oneself up to be deceived yet again by what I believe will prove to be one of the biggest charlatans in Ufological history.
 
That is pretty much always what happens when it becomes apparent one of the ufology icons is full of bs.

That is actually not true at all in my case. Although, I will admit that in many humans and many situations that does and would apply. But, as in most generalazations in this one your full of horse hockey. :p I did however, overshoot my target due to some real world stuff that I was thinking about. It colored my response somewhat to the whole mess. But, I think that I have addressed that elsewhere so I'm gonna stop beating this dead horse. That's all I got to say about that. 8)
 
trainedobserver said:
Philip J. Imbrogno has been proven to be a bald-faced liar. Everything that he has written or said must be assumed to be a bald-faced lie until proven otherwise. To do anything else is simply setting oneself up to be deceived yet again by what I believe will prove to be one of the biggest charlatans in Ufological history.
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As usual, you speak truth trainedobserver.

Wow, I ignore the "field" of Ufology for a couple of months, and I come back to find out a researcher whose work I considered to be solid is basically a functioning sociopath. Hunh. Typical.

Sociopath: "A sociopath is somebody who exhibits sociopathy, who behaves in a way that suggests a lack of conscience. Unlike the average human, a sociopath does not feel any sense of guilt or remorse when committing morally wrong actions or actions that their society deems unacceptable. Because of this utter lack of fear for the sanctions of society, sociopaths take advantage of the social system and usemanipulation and amoral behaviors to obtain their goals. The types of behaviors they exhibit are those that would make someone with a conscience uncomfortable."
(Thanks Wiki).

Of course these sort of individuals are par for the course for Ufology. People like Nick Redfern, Christopher O' Brien, Don Ecker, & places like this forum are massive exceptions to the rule.

I'm actually not that surprised. Talking Heads says it best about the state of Ufology:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdy_dArmMQs


Ripley gives the best advice on how to resolve this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s1MspmfEwg&feature=related


With regards to Mr. Imbrogno, (stolen valor? Seriously? Bad form Sir) I'm fairly certain that Pvt. Hudson (Aliens, I love that movie!) speaks for most:

" I say we grease this rat-fuck son-of-a-bitch right now! " (pardon the language)

Isn't stolen valor prosecutable?

Stolen Valor Act of 2005

" It makes it a federal misdemeanor offense to falsely represent oneself as having received any U.S. military decoration or medal. If convicted, defendants may be imprisoned for up to six months, unless the decoration lied about is the Medal of Honor, in which case imprisonment could be up to one year". (Wiki)


Great job Don verifying this. And great job Lance. I may not agree with everything you have to say, but I respect you're right to say it. You're obviously sincere about revealing the truth about things, regardless of how ugly it may turn out to be (the truth hurts for many). It's a rare quality these days, and you're to be commended.

Always remember folks. Sturgeon's Law always applies, "90% of film, literature, consumer goods, etc. are crap". The sooner we can apply this to ufology, the sooner we can get to the 10% that's actually worth something. Later.
 
So let's see, Lance Moody is anonymous, and the actual letters demonstrating that Imbrogno's credentials are false don't exist. Talk about living in denial.

A podcast indeed!
 
This just goes to support what I said about how the reaction to the Imbrogno affair provides a bit of an unintentional and unavoidable litmus test of sorts. UFO magazine gets it wrong and seeks to discredit and disparage the person exposing the fraud. Oh, that turned a nasty brown. If you were surprised by that go to the back of the class.
 
Worse, if Nancy Birnes spent a few minutes listening to The Paracast and checking these boards, she'd know full well what was going on, and that Lance Moody is the online name for — Lance Moody. Some of us do use our real names around here. :D
 
trainedobserver said:
This just goes to support what I said about how the reaction to the Imbrogno affair provides a bit of an unintentional and unavoidable litmus test of sorts. UFO magazine gets it wrong and seeks to discredit and disparage the person exposing the fraud. Oh, that turned a nasty brown. If you were surprised by that go to the back of the class.
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"By their fruits, Ye shall know them ..."
 
So, he wears a shirt with the name Tim on it. Maybe, he likes Tim. :p Ya know, I've said before that I don't believe in u.f.o.'s as actual spacemen/women. Still don't. I've also had my time to jab at debunkers about other subjects. But, wow these folks who love their ufo's are really true believers. I understand that Lance caught somebody in a lie. But, the anger at him is misplaced. Would he "investigate" the skeptics? I don't know and really does it even matter? He does give his real name and he does put it out there. Fact is if I say I graduated from a certain university in Hawaii I honestly don't have to worry about a "skeptic" digging into it. Because it's true! So, the simple fact is the "truth" doesnt' have to hide from anybody. The truth is the truth. The problem that I see as an outsider to the u.f.o. community is this. The true believers are "religious" in the need for u.f.o's to be from "outer space." The debunkers are finding holes and putting the explosive in. I honestly think the u.f.o. stuff is just one level "above" bigfoot. Yet there are people who will come on here and talk about indentions in the ground and metal found at a site. Circles that are obviously man made and call it a message from the stars. A wise man once said God doesn't play dice. He/she also doesn't put on a dog and pony show in a field late at night or hide dinosaur bones in the ground to fool the Darwinist. I'm no "debunker" and I honestly hope and litteraly pray that the materilistic worldview is false. But, this kind of reaction is just "heaven sent" for the debunkers. Pardon the pun. :p Believe me I kind of know how the ufo folks feel. I have a real respect for the idea of Reincarnation. But, the other night on the X Zone a real fruitcake was trying to "prove" her theories. She lasted maybe five minutes and the host (good for him) had to disconnect her. Sigh, sometime even your most sacred cows (Damn, there goes another pun) It's harder for me to not make a joke than it is for a Hindu to eat a hamburger :p Doh, there I go again. Anyway, even the things you or I take seriously can be devalued in a minute by one lone nut. So, the u.f.o. folks need to take this as a chance to clean up their own doorstep. Yeah, right. That'll happen. :-)
 
Stanton Friedman's major rules of debunkers....rule number 3, "If you can't attack the data, attack the people. It's easier." The true-believers don't like what Lance has said, so they attack Lance. It's pathetic, but it's also expected out of people with that kind of mentality. Lance is the messenger and he did his job well. Those of us with critical thinking faculties and level heads see this.
 
I don't trust anyone who talks about their military service too much -- other than what a bizarre surreal experience it is. I figure people who trumpet their record all the time are either exaggerating or want to use their service as a means to make themselves more credible or give more weight to what they say. And that's for people who really WERE in the armed forces!

As far as criminal prosecution of people claiming to have military service or to have been decorated, I don't personally care. At most it's something that offends people, and being offensive should never be against the law. Otherwise we would all be in jail at some point. Unless someone is actually breaking a law -- impersonating an officer, committing criminal fraud through impersonation of somebody, etc., it really is just something that makes me feel sorry for the person. "Oh what a tangled web we weave..."
 
I realize there will probably be no response, but I did send a brief letter correcting Nancy Birnes' misstatements. Not that it'll do a hell of a lot of good, but I figured I might as well put it on the record for her benefit.
 
I've drifted over to the UFO Mag community blogs a few times here and there and upon each occasion felt all the worse for having done so. A peculiar and daft variety of thinking going on over there, especially from this deliberately incoherent Lehmberg fellow.

Anyway, the repeated attempt to redirect the issue of false credibility is laughable. How Imbrogno's lying and deceit becomes an opportunity for certain pundits of the UFO community to flip the issue on its ear and then claim high moral ground is beyond me. It stinks of delusional thinking.
 
Hotkafka said:
How Imbrogno's lying and deceit becomes an opportunity for certain pundits of the UFO community to flip the issue on its ear and then claim high moral ground is beyond me. It stinks of delusional thinking.
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I've come to think of it as the War of the Paranormal Divas and its seems to be a natural outgrowth of the perceived blood in the water that Imbrogno's disgrace has left. The show that defines itself in its one sided rivalry with the Paracast was the first out of the block naturally. A couple of others have since shown everyone their backsides in the ATS forum and now we have UFO magazine showing its true colors, brown and darker brown.
 
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