Is America Doomed?

[skunkape]

Like that Byrds song, I do think there's a time for everything, and likewise a time for force. But I can't help feeling that the western world generally errs on the side of too much force rather than too little. So I kinda feel that the pacifist stance in general is the one that will bring people back into balance.

But like I said, I could be wrong here.

I am the most non confrontational person on the planet, until confronted. If you've never been in the situation of being completely helpless when your life is threatened, it may be hard to understand. I would love to live on a planet inhabited by pacifists such as yourself, but the fact is, there are a lot of mean, greedy, people with no sense of the interconnectivity of Life, who will kill, rape, and pillage to their heart's content if there is no deterring threat.
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[CapnG]

I hope you never have to realize you were wrong. I have been robbed at gunpoint. I was unarmed, it was only 40 bucks and I got off with being ventilated.<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden"><input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

Not to make light of your encounter skunk, but I have never understood how this works in the mind of pro-gun people. Let's say you were armed, to me it would go something like this: Robber pulls a gun on you, you pull out your gun. Panicked (because all theives are cowards at heart) he fires. Now you're dead, he has your money and two guns, his and YOURS.

I'm genuinely curious to hear your take on this.

 

[pixelsmith]

robber pulls gun on pixelsmith,
robber gets gun taken away,
robber looks funny with gun sticking out of his butt.

 

[skunkape]

Not to make light of your encounter skunk, but I have never understood how this works in the mind of pro-gun people. Let's say you were armed, to me it would go something like this: Robber pulls a gun on you, you pull out your gun. Panicked (because all theives are cowards at heart) he fires. Now you're dead, he has your money and two guns, his and YOURS.

I'm genuinely curious to hear your take on this.

1st time:
Robber pulls gun on me. I have no gun. I get robbed.
2nd time around:
I catch robber half-way through my kitchen and point a 12 gauge shotgun at his head, drag him to the floor, disarm him and for the next hour or so...
REDACTED
Life is good.
I've got two guns. The one my dad gave me when I was 15 and the greasy little piece with the serial number filed off that I took from my would-be assailant.
My property is intact. My beloved is unraped.
Theiving bastard is happy to be alive with no more than a few lumps on his head.
Everybody wins.
This is the fact of the matter to me. You can think how you want.
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[CapnG]

robber pulls gun on pixelsmith,
robber gets gun taken away,
robber looks funny with gun sticking out of his butt.

We're always the heroes of our own fantasies. Real life is rarely so kind.

You can think how you want.<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden"><input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data-->

I think you didn't answer my question. Or maybe you did. Guns by your example only serve who ever has "the drop" on the other. The concept that guns can "defend" anyone is therefore null and void.

 

[AnnetteMarie]

it is mostly psychological? if you are not prepared to shoot your assailant, don't bother with a gun, cause you won't use it.

the problem with a weapon is, it can be taken from you and used against you.

I don't know which is better - having weapons to protect me and mine, or relying on not needing one, ever. I just know I wouldn't likely use a weapon, so why carry one around that can be used against me, or be found by one of my grandkids and have the potential to cause a huge tragedy?

I would rather we were all more pacifistic, but I sure am grateful for the soldiers who put their butts on the line for my country in WWI and WWII.

 

[skunkape]

I think you didn't answer my question. Or maybe you did. Guns by your example only serve who ever has "the drop" on the other.

That would be pretty much correct. If they get the drop on you first you are pretty much screwed. No one is going to surprise me in my home. That's what dogs are for. I'm not one of these loons who thinks they are going to have a standoff with the feds when the NWO comes home to roost. I don't have the whole basement packed with ammo. I do see a potential for chaos and violence in the future...more than already exists. The poverty that comes with high unemployment and hyper inflation will very likely raise the crime rate. I think it would be irresponsible not to have a gun for home protection.
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[Ezechiel]

and YET, once the people became the ARMY with all the weapons, they still marched in unison to the song of the tin-pot sadist with a small willie, who couldn't get a job...

how bizarre, when all they had to do was get up, en masse, and shoot the bastard and his bastard friends.

Aren't there a whole bunch of thesis from social psychologists explaining the phenomenon ? Same thing happened in Iraq... why did the Iraqi population tolerate a monster like Saddam Hussein ? Get up grab a gun and pull the trigger right ?

The USA did just that. Packed its bags, drover over and pushed him out (at huge expense by the way) and released the hidden Pandora box monstrosity that makes up that artificial country (Carved out by the Brits). Shiite, Sunni, Kurdish friction beyond anybody's imagination... an explosive mixture salted by Iranians and peppered by the Turks.

Usually the person on top reflects the horrors below. Adolf Hitler governed an empoverished, oppressed people and managed to raise racial hatred to untold levels. The complexities of the historical context are mind boggling and an easy solution is not always the best.

 

[AnnetteMarie]

like I said, 'how bizarre'.

 

[BrandonD]

I am the most non confrontational person on the planet, until confronted. If you've never been in the situation of being completely helpless when your life is threatened, it may be hard to understand.
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Strangely enough I've been in that situation, the first time was in college and a crazy country bumpkin pointed a shotgun at me for being about 20 feet away from his driveway. I was picking something up that rolled down the street, and I didn't even see him 20 feet away until he cocked the shotgun!

The second time I had several police officers pointing guns at me in my own garage. They mistakenly thought I was robbing my own house.

I still don't want to own a gun though, but I'm ok with everyone having their own point of view. One of the people who's developing a video game with me is ex-military and carries a gun at all times. We differ on alot of opinions but I still think he's a genuine great guy.

 

[skunkape]

The second time I had several police officers pointing guns at me in my own garage. They mistakenly thought I was robbing my own house.

Holy jeez, I've been there, too. I was driving late at night and got pulled over and swarmed by 5 cop cars. I was told to step out with my hands up over the loud speaker. I got out and had like 8 guns pointed at me...not an ideal situation. It turned out they were looking for a reportedly suicidal man with a gun. One of the officers knew me and realized they had the wrong guy and they all jumped back in their cars and raced off. I guess they wanted to shoot him before he had a chance to do it himself.
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[Gareth]

Skunape I figured out whats going on at your house... a well funded, well coordinated vagrant outfit near your area are stealing bagels from you and using low flying black choppers to distract you, because they know you have a gun and will always have the drop in your own house.

Am I onto something?

 

[skunkape]

Skunape I figured out whats going on at your house... a well funded, well coordinated vagrant outfit near your area are stealing bagels from you and using low flying black choppers to distract you, because they know you have a gun and will always have the drop in your own house.

Am I onto something?

All they have to do is knock and ask. I'll even throw in some cream cheese. I wonder if they're homeless because they spent all their money on a chopper. Makes as much sense as any thing else.
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[CapnG]

Aside, am I the only one who finds the concept of making suicide "illegal" incomprehensibly absurd?

 

[BrandonD]

Aside, am I the only one who finds the concept of making suicide "illegal" incomprehensibly absurd?

"I think we are property." -Charles Fort

 

[Gareth]

Aside, am I the only one who finds the concept of making suicide "illegal" incomprehensibly absurd?

err, no. You are not.

Thats hilariously stupid. What are they gonna do - charge the remaining family in their time of grief?

"Excuse me, Mr Thompson - I have some bad news... Im sorry to tell you this, but your son committed suicide last night. Jumped off a bridge. There was no note. Oh, and you're under arrest, if you'll come with me please".

 

[jpw.in.wi]

I was driving late at night and got pulled over and swarmed by 5 cop cars ... I got out and had like 8 guns pointed at me. It turned out they were looking for a reportedly suicidal man with a gun ... I guess they wanted to shoot him before he had a chance to do it himself.

Aside, am I the only one who finds the concept of making suicide "illegal" incomprehensibly absurd?

Since you brought up some really big pet peeves of mine, I can't help myself ...

Yeah, how about our stupid criminal justice system?! The fascist pigs should have just let that guy go off and die with dignity instead of hunting him down like an animal.

What an absolutely thankless job, being a police officer. All you do is clean up the crap that no one else has the guts to deal with, knowing that any morning you wake up may be your last. And what's the reward? Bitching from the very people who wouldn't do what you do for a million bucks--but who think you're being paid too much.

If the most troublesome thing you have to deal with in life is a few black helicopters buzzing over your neighborhood, count yourself lucky.

Thats hilariously stupid. What are they gonna do - charge the remaining family in their time of grief?

Since this topic is so funny, maybe you should call up the family of Ervin Lupoe and ask them how they feel about suicidal men with guns ...

​

... oops, no one can do that. They're all dead. Must be the fault of the jackbooted police and this flippin' Puritanical society that we live in--and I'm sure the black helicopters are somehow to blame, too. Oh well, the world is over populated, as we all know. "Then let them die -- and decrease the surplus population."

Okay, I'm ready to be banned now ...

 

[CapnG]

jpw.in.wi, that's the most pointless, rambling diatribe I think I've read on here since the last time Aaron got completely hammered.

What the hell does any of that have to do with the absurd notion of suicide being illegal? How exactly do you enforce that? Arrest a corpse? If you're so respectful of the police, maybe you'd want them to concentrate their efforts onto actual crimes.

Oh well, the world is over populated, as we all know. "Then let them die -- and decrease the surplus population."

When it comes to suicides yep, pretty much. What, you think that makes me a monster? Spare me the random moralizing. Life's tough, not everyone can take it. They want out, I say let 'em go. Plenty more where they came from.

 

[jpw.in.wi]

Life's tough, not everyone can take it. They want out, I say let 'em go. Plenty more where they came from.

That's just beautiful!!!!

You're right, I'm the one whose head is screwed on crooked. I really hope that you don't live to regret those words some day.

Oh yeah, and I don't really respect police officers, either.

LOL!!!!!!! So much for this thread, I guess.

 

[CapnG]

I really hope that you don't live to regret those words some day.

And just wtf is that supposed to mean? Do you have anything worthwhile to add or are you just going to regail us with more slide-shows and moralistic judgements from on high?

I'm guessing you don't.