Is anyone else Roswell-ed out?

[Gene Steinberg]

Friedman did a fair amount of work for the Roswell book without proper credit. And I actually did a small amount of work for Berlitz that he incorporated in another book. But that's another story.

 

[Trajanus]

Friedman did a fair amount of work for the Roswell book without proper credit. And I actually did a small amount of work for Berlitz that he incorporated in another book. But that's another story.

I'd like to remind people of something: Roswell was associated with UFOlogy long before Marcel began talking in '78. See Edwards's 1967 Flying Saucers Serious Business. And Friedman first heard of Marcel from a friend of the latter who associated his name with "flying saucer pieces."

 

[PararealitySaint]

Branding and labeling.

Thank you UFOLOGY for your reply as to my remarks. I am really enjoying having my say and being able to discuss this with someone who actually listens instead of feels he or she has to immediately defend themselves as if they don't, the "alien" God's will frown down upon them.

I believe it is now time to emphasize some very important points of interest pertaining to my personal beliefs and remarks notwithstanding....

1. I initially began my experiences in the paranormal field back in the early to mid 70's. Unfortunately due to a lot of media intensive brainwashing, I developed the tendency to see the U.F.O. phenomena as first and foremost extraterrestrial in origin.

2. In the process of this dissemination, I began to apply a more "scientifically" driven format when dissecting the various plethora of supposed "proof" and "evidence" as to the U.F.O. phenomena as being extraterrestrial only. Finding that a good 85% to 90% of the time (and I had worked with major organizations in the Northeast of the U.S., some now defunct) the vehicle or transport for such objects could not be proven to be extraterrestrial in any known way. The comparisons utilized were with our terrestrial engineering, and even though they were far and beyond what we had available at the time, in no way could we prove that the form of propulsion was determined to be inter-planetary or even extra terrestrial. Mostly the eyewitness reporting conduced that the crafts would almost "dissipate" into the night, etc (radar backed in this, and other physical evidence tracking methods, etc.). With that being said, other theory driven explanations began to set in, mostly inter-dimensional and not at all fitting in the mostly universally accepted "E.T." or "Alien" explanation.

This didn't mean it wasn't a possibility, just not a probability according to the decades of research maintained and investigated.

3. Conducive of years of investigation into the abduction phenomena, the "experimental" phenomena, the "reactionary" bars utilized by various tests to understand the measurement of pain versus sincere positive reaction to the thousands of case studies, it was concluded that these so called "extra-terrestrials", if that, were close to 85% to 95% malign to the human condition. Nearly all of the case study showed the victim was either forced to be in his or her condition, nervous to a degree of induced hypertension, angry by means of a generated or forced upon uncomfortable scenario; in fact concluded as generally opposite of what you or anyone would consider volunteer subject material.

4. There were cases which showed limited radiation poisoning, metal object insertion, regressive pain therapy which would sometimes make one sincerely cry (I know I did) watching the procedure, etc.

So with all the above and the lack of any directed evidential information to the contrary (other than those who could be classified as charlatan due to their ongoing communications with Mork) I started to get generally PISSED OFF with E.T. It happened because I spent years.....more years than most of those posting to this forum have been alive, watching as time and time again nothing could be substantiated to show E.T. exists or has any relevance to the phenomena many of us (myself included by the way) has experienced.

Does this mean I am closed off to the theory of it being E.T. generated? No.
Does this mean I am leaning far toward it being govt. driven? I cannot tell.
Does this mean I am leaning toward the phenomenon being inter-dimensional in almost every aspect? More yes than no but I am still not completely certain, as even though the physically driven information of the many cases shows a positive result as to this means, it still leaves open the form or use of a fuel or substance/quantum theory engineered propulsion drive? to achieve it.

We thought we might have had it with Element 115 but you know how that went....

So there you have it. I am not predicated on one belief or another. I am a man of investigation, research and factual wherewithal. I do tend to believe in Jesus Christ as my savior though, and therefore might have been slighted as to my idea of an inter-dimensional explanation.....sue me but can you or anyone state for sure that the Bible might not have something there about Demons and all of this....primitive? whatever.

I looked over the case in Roswell for years and can tell anyone asking it definitely wasn't E.T.

So what.

That's just another "assumption" and we all know we have one...(take off the "umption" and ad hole). I haven't concluded this because I like the idea or have favored one side over the other, or am some kind of govt. disinformation man or martian wannabe. I state it because I went over every known ave. of eyewitness reporting available, investigated with many hours of both my own financial income and that of supporting groups who granted me thus, had spoken with those in govt. positions which yeah yeah yeah, shouldn't have and all that unprovable mumbo jumbo, have not written a book because I considered the outcome a waste of time....too many people have written books since then and have shown the same information I would have stated, that the govt. was experimenting on new forms of propulsion, had a crash(s), looked to cover it up in their usual intellectual manner, and nothing more.

Yes, I can honestly state for the record....I and many hundreds of thousands if not millions like me....

ARE ROSWELLED OUT!!!!


---------- Post added at 01:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:21 PM ----------

Friedman did a fair amount of work for the Roswell book without proper credit. And I actually did a small amount of work for Berlitz that he incorporated in another book. But that's another story.

I forgive you Gene.



Stanton never was the same.

 

[Randall]

Branding and labeling.

Thank you UFOLOGY for your reply as to my remarks. I am really enjoying having my say and being able to discuss this with someone who actually listens ...

I am a man of investigation, research and factual wherewithal. I do tend to believe in Jesus Christ as my savior though, and therefore might have been slighted as to my idea of an inter-dimensional explanation.....sue me but can you or anyone state for sure that the Bible might not have something there about Demons and all of this....primitive?

I looked over the case in Roswell for years and can tell anyone asking it definitely wasn't E.T.

I can honestly state for the record....I and many hundreds of thousands if not millions like me....

ARE ROSWELLED OUT!!!!

Wow ... unlike so many of the self-proclaimed skeptics, at least you have actually taken the time to look into the subject, and although you may come across a bit gruff, if one has a thick enough skin, there is also some humor in your delivery.

I still believe that the extraterrestrial hypothesis is the most likely case for the majority of alien transport sightings. There is nothing about any good case I can think of that can not be explained by advanced technology within our spacetime. I know Vallee and others went off on the interdimensional hypothesis, but that was before stealth technology, let alone really advanced perfected alien stealth technology.

As an aside, you briefly mentioned a belief in Jesus, which to me is a pure myth based on composite characters from the Essene culture prior to the Roman takeover. The amazing thing for me, having once taken the existence of Jesus for granted, is that after learning that there is no physical evidence whatsoever of Jesus' existence, not even a stone tablet with his signature carved in it ... nothing ... that the creation of the Jesus myth is far more interesting than the myth itself.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Correct Myths are created by those who seek to muddy the actual truths which might be simple as just a top secret experiments. There's so much books on Ufology / Roswell its become a marketing tool for all sorts of UFO theories some are good others just mind boggling. Professor Friedman and Dr (Lt Col Ret) Randle are the Roswell researchers who have given a very good case for its existence. Its good to keep a open mind other theories such as Mr Nick Redfern regarding P.O.W s experiments which is not far off a 'possibility' as all side commit crimes against humanity during wars and during peace time. However, I do like hearing all sides of the spectrum but doesn't not mean you have to except all the hypothesis while sorting the wheat from the chaff.

 

[Trajanus]

Professor Friedman and Dr (Lt Col Ret) Randle are the Roswell researchers who have given a very good case for its existence.

Right, even if they don't agree on everything.

Its good to keep a open mind other theories such as Mr Nick Redfern regarding P.O.W s experiments which is not far off a 'possibility' as all side commit crimes against humanity during wars and during peace time.

I think redfern's theory has pretty much been debunked. I don't think it ever made sense because there would've been only one crash site but Marcel said there were no bodies at the ranch.

---------- Post added at 11:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 AM ----------

I still believe that the extraterrestrial hypothesis is the most likely case for the majority of alien transport sightings. There is nothing about any good case I can think of that can not be explained by advanced technology within our spacetime. I know Vallee and others went off on the interdimensional hypothesis, but that was before stealth technology, let alone really advanced perfected alien stealth technology.

Very good point; there are also holograms.

As an aside, you briefly mentioned a belief in Jesus, which to me is a pure myth based on composite characters from the Essene culture prior to the Roman takeover.

Did you read Jesus one hundred years before christ? I'm no christian but to my knowledge very few historians say holy joe one was a pure myth. See Erhmann's books.

The amazing thing for me, having once taken the existence of Jesus for granted, is that after learning that there is no physical evidence whatsoever of Jesus' existence, not even a stone tablet with his signature carved in it ... nothing ... that the creation of the Jesus myth is far more interesting than the myth itself.

It certainly does have mythical aspects. The gospel writers shamelessly made up stuff. There's a blog which went into detail about this a while back:

Starman's Future Visions

 

[boomerang]

When someone says whatever is behind the UFO phenomenon is malicious or inherently evil, then I think we have a valid talking point to be discussed. When someone labels this or any other social or physical phenomenon 'demonic', then we are left with no where to go. I take that to mean we should unquestionably believe it to be what religious authority tells us it is and halt discussion. Or, that we should simply halt discussion? Para, I am not merely being flippant. What would you have us do/not do or discuss/not discuss?

The universe is an apparition. The classic double slit experiment could almost be regarded as haunted by strange forces.

 

[Trajanus]

When someone says whatever is behind the UFO phenomenon is malicious or inherently evil,

I don't see the latter as a valid concept. It's possible that aliens have a longterm plan to usurp our planet. But while they may be dangerous, from our point of view, they're no more "inherently evil" than homo sapiens, which apparently eliminated neanderthal man and got the whole world for itself.

I take that to mean we should unquestionably believe it to be what religious authority tells us it is and halt discussion...

Don't worry; fat chance of that happening, in this day and age.

 

[PararealitySaint]

I don't see the latter as a valid concept. It's possible that aliens have a longterm plan to usurp our planet. But while they may be dangerous, from our point of view, they're no more "inherently evil" than homo sapiens, which apparently eliminated neanderthal man and got the whole world for itself.

Yeah just probable....I mean, orifice probing, direct horrifying, draining of blood, metal insertions....these can just as easily be interpreted as loving caring support based positions. You know, "inherently evil"....let's disseminate that for a moment shall we:

1. Inherently: Existing as an essential constituent or characteristic; intrinsic.
2. Evil: Morally bad or wrong; wicked:

Are you kidding me? For all the alien "love ins" we have been privy too, mass amounts of abducted victims, some of which can no longer sleep at night, others crying out for help, have been shown such lovely scenes as hybrid babies they were forced to have had and then taken away from them, etc. etc.

Like my grandmother used to say, "With friends like this, who needs enemies!"

 

[Trajanus]

Yeah just probable....I mean, orifice probing, direct horrifying, draining of blood, metal insertions....these can just as easily be interpreted as loving caring support based positions.

Lol, I don't doubt they're terrifying to many abductees. But I assume the purpose isn't to cause trauma for its own sake, but to get genetic material or experiment on humans. We do it all the time to animals but few call us inherently evil.

You know, "inherently evil"....let's disseminate that for a moment shall we:

1. Inherently: Existing as an essential constituent or characteristic; intrinsic.
2. Evil: Morally bad or wrong; wicked:

Are you kidding me? For all the alien "love ins" we have been privy too, mass amounts of abducted victims, some of which can no longer sleep at night, others crying out for help, have been shown such lovely scenes as hybrid babies they were forced to have had and then taken away from them, etc. etc.

Apparently, to most aliens the end justifies the means. But apparently there are a variety coming here and there have been reports of highly benevolent aliens--and no I don't mean "orthon" lol.

Like my grandmother used to say, "With friends like this, who needs enemies!"

I didn't say most were friends, and I believe at least some are enemies. But not "demons."

 

[Ron Collins]

I don't see the latter as a valid concept. It's possible that aliens have a longterm plan to usurp our planet. But while they may be dangerous, from our point of view, they're no more "inherently evil" than homo sapiens, which apparently eliminated neanderthal man and got the whole world for itself.

I think the going theory is that we interbreeded with the Neanderthal thus assimilating their biological distinctiveness (rather Borg like) into our own. I agree that "evil" is the wrong concept to apply to this.

I think that evil is, at least as far as we know, a human concept. Many of the "little doctors" accounts have the cold clinical feeling that can certainly share several aspects with our concept of evil treatment. But, I think the clear division is the lack of emotional enjoyment. If it were evil for evil's sake there would be obvious enjoyment. The fact that many describe them as robotic or clinical in nature would seemingly counteract the evil theory.

 

[PararealitySaint]

In order for me to clarify what it is I deem as the explanatory title, "evil" in context of this subject, I utilize a form of conscious awareness relegating to:

A. Self Preservation
B. Need
C. Relative Association
D. Malignancy versus Benign intent

As this is a model by which I compare alone, I do not purport to state that everyone in the world looks at this point exactly the same.

A. It's hard to believe that whatever is causing this phenomenon to occur is doing it for scientific investigatory purposes. The sheer length of time it has been repeated and the strong lack of diversity as to the machinations themselves does not support it. Therefore on this point I would have to say "self preservation" isn't a defense. If it was, those in the "know" would have not needed to make it so covertly attainable, but instead gathered many volunteers...I am sure you would have enjoyed the honor Trajanus?

B. I cannot think of a human "need" (or at least one finally enlightened upon by our Star Fathers) for such obvious violations of personal privacy or self in any context stretched to legitimize an otherwise obvious raping and kidnapping which in fact transpires on sometimes a daily if not weekly basis.

C. In the human world there is a sense of "I think therefore I am", which in and of itself shapes a level of hierarchy which cannot be denied. As human beings with this form of consciousness, and for a lack of any other living creature on the earth to equate, we must believe in a standard by which our methods for testing adhere to this fact. Animals cannot be placed on the same level of this conscious awareness, therefore cannot be used as a proper comparison to E.T. testing on self aware humans.

There is something also to be said about the "Biblical" notion of the soul. Although I will not delve to deeply in this point, I will clarify that as a Christian who believes that animals and "ALL" other living organisms are subservient to man as he was created in the image of the Lord, that in no way means a disrespect to all other living plants and animals, just that there is a difference of equality and there is a difference when making a comparison to E.T.'s using human test subjects versus man using animals for testing....Besides, in most cases, humans don't look to generate pain or fright or the other wicked responses that Aliens are said to look for in their many abduction cases.

D. Perhaps the largest case for any and all concept of the majority of "E.T." encounters has been what the "abductee" or "victim" has gained by the interaction.

I would wager that most people including those who have been abducted enjoy sleeping at night.
I would bet that most people including those who have been abducted really hate having their septum's deviated and metal objects lodged within.
I have a feeling that in most cases to be violated in any way in which there was no consent has very little terminology which can supplant that of the term, "evil", mainly due to the simple fact that:

1. They are not in control
2. They do not wish it
3. They are frightened, hurt and used beyond any caring for their personal needs
4. And this is ongoing, covert, and definitely not within any acceptable behavior I can think of.

So once again, in conclusion to this, if it quacks, wobbles, has a white feathers and a long orange beak....My bet it's a duck.

 

[Trajanus]

I think the going theory is that we interbreeded with the Neanderthal thus assimilating their biological distinctiveness (rather Borg like) into our own.

For some time, the prevailing notion was that our ancestors outcompeted the neanderthals and drove them to extinction. There was some interbreeding but we're hardly a cross between cro-magnon and neanderthals.

I agree that "evil" is the wrong concept to apply to this.

It's not what you'd call a scientific or objective concept.

I think that evil is, at least as far as we know, a human concept. Many of the "little doctors" accounts have the cold clinical feeling that can certainly share several aspects with our concept of evil treatment. But, I think the clear division is the lack of emotional enjoyment. If it were evil for evil's sake there would be obvious enjoyment. The fact that many describe them as robotic or clinical in nature would seemingly counteract the evil theory.

Sure and so would the relatively minor injuries compared to what they could do. The bulk of abduction accounts don't involve out and out torture. I don't believe the motive is just investigation or study, although that could be part of it if e.g. they're monitoring the effects of pollution etc on us and our environment.

 

[PararealitySaint]

Sure and so would the relatively minor injuries compared to what they could do. The bulk of abduction accounts don't involve out and out torture. I don't believe the motive is just investigation or study, although that could be part of it if e.g. they're monitoring the effects of pollution etc on us and our environment.

LOL! Relatively minor injuries? So I guess what is stated here is that it's ok to be a sado-masochist as long the results are only "minor" to the subject!

Really, this is too far out to even waste anymore time on.

 

[Trajanus]

LOL! Relatively minor injuries? So I guess what is stated here is that it's ok to be a sado-masochist as long the results are only "minor" to the subject!

It's not sado-masochism but gene harvesting or some other work by unemotional beings who don't care what humans think or feel but don't cause any more harm than is necessary. Out and out mutilation of humans is rare.

Really, this is too far out to even waste anymore time on.

Fine leave the thread.

 

[PararealitySaint]

It's not sado-masochism but gene harvesting or some other work by unemotional beings who don't care what humans think or feel but don't cause any more harm than is necessary. Out and out mutilation of humans is rare. Fine leave the thread.

LOL! Do you even read the crap you write as something anyone in their right minds would think is legitimate as an example for "gene harvesting".

An intelligent species (or so you and the other wannabe E.T.'s state) who either loves to hurt other people in the name of their science, or drones as you now allude to, who do this without emotion....

I see...Without emotion. Placing hybrid fetuses in the hands of humans and then taking them away. Scaring the hell out of someone to watch the reaction, soothing them, then rinsing and repeating.

Are you totally devoid of human compassion man! Ask those who have been abducted how much fun it is for them! Ask them how enjoyable it is to be taken out of their supposedly safe homes in the middle of the night and prodded and used like some Ginny pig in a lab.

I have been as tolerant and as respectful to you as I can be, but now I have come to the end of my rope. Why the hell don't you leave this thread and find some out of the world place by which you can push your tired defense of these hellish machinations?

Honestly you have proven how inhumane and downright cynical your position is in terms of these freaks of nature, these demonic infestations who only cause pain and harm to otherwise innocent victims.

Perhaps you need to understand how basely morbid it is to defend a creature whose only sick and evil intention of taking someone without their permission and abusing them is justified by some science they supposedly can't understand or comprehend after the so called thousands of years they have been doing this. It takes that long to study a gene progression...please. What a sad excuse for draining a person's blood, leaving them on the side of the road like only so much roadkill, or terrorizing them to the point where it takes decades of counciling and drugs to even sleep at night!!!!!

Sorry, but the truth of the matter is, I am tired of your sadly perverted defense of an otherwise malignantly evil body of God knows what.....Go waste some other persons time who can feel sorry for you.

 

[Trajanus]

LOL! Do you even read the crap you write ...

Lol, this coming from someone who believes "I am the living bread, whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood will live forever." The aliens aren't a tenth as perverted and sick as what you worship.

An intelligent species (or so you and the other wannabe E.T.'s state) who either loves to hurt other people in the name of their science, or drones as you now allude to, who do this without emotion....

I see...Without emotion. Placing hybrid fetuses in the hands of humans and then taking them away. Scaring the hell out of someone to watch the reaction, soothing them, then rinsing and repeating.

Just like human scientists do with animals.

Are you totally devoid of human compassion man! Ask those who have been abducted how much fun it is for them! Ask them how enjoyable it is to be taken out of their supposedly safe homes in the middle of the night and prodded and used like some Ginny pig in a lab.

I'm not attempting to justify their actions just offer possible explanations.

I have been as tolerant and as respectful to you as I can be, but now I have come to the end of my rope. Why the hell don't you leave this thread

Hey, you're the one at the "end of my rope" YOU leave.

Honestly you have proven how inhumane and downright cynical your position is in terms of these freaks of nature, these demonic infestations who only cause pain and harm to otherwise innocent victims.

No, there have been some reported healings.

Perhaps you need to understand how basely morbid it is to defend a creature whose only sick and evil intention of taking someone without their permission and abusing them is justified by some science they supposedly can't understand or comprehend after the so called thousands of years they have been doing this. It takes that long to study a gene progression...please.

We don't know how long they've been doing it.

What a sad excuse for draining a person's blood, leaving them on the side of the road like only so much roadkill, or terrorizing them to the point where it takes decades of counciling and drugs to even sleep at night!!!!!

Like I said they don't care about humans. But really demonic beings could do far worse--we could all be dead.

 

[Randall]

OK ... Now I'm Roswelled Out. Time to switch threads.

 

[Trajanus]

OK ... Now I'm Roswelled Out. Time to switch threads.

Suit yourself.

 

[tyder001]

Yeah, I think we need to move on from Rosewell. It was more than likely a military craft or some classified very "earthly" event. Anyway, I'm still waiting for the smoking gun of "spaceman Spiff" and so far? .....Crickets.
I do enjoy the back and forth of civil dicussion and I also keep my mind open to the possibility of life from outer space or visitors from other planets. I highly doubt it but I'm not sure. But, yeah I think Rosewell has been beat to death.