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Is this evidence that we can see the future?

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Christopher O'Brien

Back in the Saddle Aginn
Staff member
[the skeptics should have fun with this one...]

New Scientist article HERE:

Extraordinary claims don't come much more extraordinary than this: events that haven't yet happened can influence our behaviour.

Parapsychologists have made outlandish claims about precognition – knowledge of unpredictable future events – for years. But the fringe phenomenon is about to get a mainstream airing: a paper providing evidence for its existence has been accepted for publication by the leading social psychology journal.

What's more, sceptical psychologists who have pored over a preprint of the paper say they can't find any significant flaws. "My personal view is that this is ridiculous and can't be true," says Joachim Krueger of Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, who has blogged about the work on the Psychology Today website. "Going after the methodology and the experimental design is the first line of attack. But frankly, I didn't see anything. Everything seemed to be in good order."

Critical mass

The paper, due to appear in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology before the end of the year, is the culmination of eight years' work by Daryl Bem of Cornell University in Ithaca, New York. "I purposely waited until I thought there was a critical mass that wasn't a statistical fluke," he says.

It describes a series of experiments involving more than 1000 student volunteers. In most of the tests, Bem took well-studied psychological phenomena and simply reversed the sequence, so that the event generally interpreted as the cause happened after the tested behaviour rather than before it.

In one experiment, students were shown a list of words and then asked to recall words from it, after which they were told to type words that were randomly selected from the same list. Spookily, the students were better at recalling words that they would later type.

In another study, Bem adapted research on "priming" – the effect of a subliminally presented word on a person's response to an image. For instance, if someone is momentarily flashed the word "ugly", it will take them longer to decide that a picture of a kitten is pleasant than if "beautiful" had been flashed. Running the experiment back-to-front, Bem found that the priming effect seemed to work backwards in time as well as forwards.
'Stroke of genius'

Exploring time-reversed versions of established psychological phenomena was "a stroke of genius", says the sceptical Krueger. Previous research in parapsychology has used idiosyncratic set-ups such as Ganzfeld experiments, in which volunteers listen to white noise and are presented with a uniform visual field to create a state allegedly conducive to effects including clairvoyance and telepathy. By contrast, Bem set out to provide tests that mainstream psychologists could readily evaluate.

The effects he recorded were small but statistically significant. In another test, for instance, volunteers were told that an erotic image was going to appear on a computer screen in one of two positions, and asked to guess in advance which position that would be. The image's eventual position was selected at random, but volunteers guessed correctly 53.1 per cent of the time.

That may sound unimpressive – truly random guesses would have been right 50 per cent of the time, after all. But well-established phenomena such as the ability of low-dose aspirin to prevent heart attacks are based on similarly small effects, notes Melissa Burkley of Oklahoma State University in Stillwater, who has also blogged about Bem's work at Psychology Today.
Respect for a maverick

So far, the paper has held up to scrutiny. "This paper went through a series of reviews from some of our most trusted reviewers," says Charles Judd of the University of Colorado at Boulder, who heads the section of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology editorial board that handled the paper.

Indeed, although Bem is a self-described "maverick" with a long-standing interest in paranormal phenomena, he is also a respected psychologist with a reputation for running careful experiments. He is best known for the theory of self-perception, which argues that people infer their attitudes from their own behaviour in much the same way as they assess the attitudes of others.

Bem says his paper was reviewed by four experts who proposed amendments, but still recommended publication. Still, the journal will publish a sceptical editorial commentary alongside the paper, says Judd. "We hope it spurs people to try to replicate these effects."

One failed attempt at replication has already been posted online. In this study, Jeff Galak of Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and Leif Nelson of the University of California, Berkeley, employed an online panel called Consumer Behavior Lab in an effort to repeat Bem's findings on the recall of words.

Bem argues that online surveys are inconclusive, because it's impossible to know whether volunteers have paid sufficient attention to the task. Galak concedes that this is a limitation of the initial study, but says he is now planning a follow-up involving student volunteers that will more closely repeat the design of Bem's word-recall experiment.

This seems certain to be just the first exchange in a lively debate: Bem says that dozens of researchers have already contacted him requesting details of the work.
[maybe this means there are at least a few open-minded scientists out there willing to attempt to replicate Bem's results--Chris]
 
Why should the skeptics have fun with it? If the science is sound, well they've gone and proven something that has never been proven before. It's amazing. You see, if someone proves something, I have no problem admitting that my belief was incorrect.
 
Why should the skeptics have fun with it? If the science is sound, well they've gone and proven something that has never been proven before. It's amazing. You see, if someone proves something, I have no problem admitting that my belief was incorrect.
It was just me being precognatively sarcastic, ironic and humorous in one fell swoop...
 
Parapsychologists have made outlandish claims about precognition – knowledge of unpredictable future events – for years. But the fringe phenomenon is about to get a mainstream airing: a paper providing evidence for its existence has been accepted for publication by the leading social psychology journal.
Thanks for the heads-up. I'll certainly read this article once its published.
 
Maybe it's because I'm functioning on four hours of sleep but I don't get this. How exactly is any of this "precognition" in the classical sense? I've seen stuff about the brain "pre-thinking" things before and sure it's fascinating and all but it's always a fraction of second before the thing itself so big deal. When you can tell me tomorrow's lotto numbers I'll be interested.
 
I'd say if they prove that it's science, no, he wouldn't have to award the prize because it would no longer be paranormal. The psychics need to get that million before anyone says it's hard science.

What a load of bullshit, double-talk that is! First ya' say that the paranormal has to be proven scientifically then ya' say that if it is it isn't the paranormal, it's science? If Randi defines it that way he deserves a swirlie, a wedgie, and a tittie twister simultaneously. If that's even close to the way he defines it then the prize is a sham because it's unwinnable.
 
What a load of bullshit, double-talk that is! First ya' say that the paranormal has to be proven scientifically then ya' say that if it is it isn't the paranormal, it's science? If Randi defines it that way he deserves a swirlie, a wedgie, and a tittie twister simultaneously. If that's even close to the way he defines it then the prize is a sham because it's unwinnable.

Don't worry about it so much. There are no proven psychics in the world in the classic sense of the term. They just use the same methods magicians use, but say they are real "powers."

If someone can prove that they are doing something that is unexplainable by science, the prize will be given out. There's no conspiracy there, it's just that no one has ever been able to win it. The prize is not a scam.

Man, I feel like I repeat myself a lot on this forum. I should just shut up and let everyone discuss whatever they want no matter how ridiculous it is. I'll just concentrate on making sure there are no spammers on the site and that everyone behaves.
 
Don't worry about it so much. There are no proven psychics in the world in the classic sense of the term. They just use the same methods magicians use, but say they are real "powers."

If someone can prove that they are doing something that is unexplainable by science, the prize will be given out. There's no conspiracy there, it's just that no one has ever been able to win it. The prize is not a scam.

Man, I feel like I repeat myself a lot on this forum. I should just shut up and let everyone discuss whatever they want no matter how ridiculous it is. I'll just concentrate on making sure there are no spammers on the site and that everyone behaves.

Ugghh, all you just did was repeat the same nonsense; that something has to proven in a scientific manner but if it is it doesn't count. And hell, I don't believe in psychics anyway. It's the silly double-talk I have a problem with.
 
Ugghh, all you just did was repeat the same nonsense; that something has to proven in a scientific manner but if it is it doesn't count. And hell, I don't believe in psychics anyway. It's the silly double-talk I have a problem with.

What's the double talk? It's pretty simple. If a psychic comes in and shows that he is psychic - he will win the million. If science proves that psychic powers are real first, and it becomes science, you can't win the million dollars after that. Do you see what I mean?

Randi explains it here:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LSOD77clNZM?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LSOD77clNZM?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

---------- Post added at 01:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:31 PM ----------

And here too:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HwctEsaUmmA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HwctEsaUmmA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
 
What's the double talk? It's pretty simple. If a psychic comes in and shows that he is psychic - he will win the million. If science proves that psychic powers are real first, and it becomes science, you can't win the million dollars after that. Do you see what I mean?

Randi explains it here:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/LSOD77clNZM?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/LSOD77clNZM?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

---------- Post added at 01:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:31 PM ----------

And here too:

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/HwctEsaUmmA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HwctEsaUmmA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Well, that's splitting a hair if ever there was a case of splitting a hair.
 
...and boy if a dude did that, watch out--Randi might get randy and drag him back into a closet to get to know him, uhmm, better... lol

You know, shots at Randi's sexuality are uncalled for Chris. I'm pretty sure if someone said something like that about someone you admire, you would ban them. Not cool at all.
 
You know, shots at Randi's sexuality are uncalled for Chris. I'm pretty sure if someone said something like that about someone you admire, you would ban them. Not cool at all.
Go ahead, ban me if you think I deserve it. It wasn't a shot, it was a joke. I have no problem with him being gay and being into guys--or guys into him... ouch, did I just write that?
lol
 
My problem with Randi isn't that he's gay. I think some folks just are gay. My problem is his agressiveness to young boys. At least according to a post Paul Kimball made with audio right on this very forum.
 
My problem with Randi isn't that he's gay. I think some folks just are gay. My problem is his agressiveness to young boys. At least according to a post Paul Kimball made with audio right on this very forum.
Angelo, you noticed I stayed away from mentioning his umm...[alleged] specific predilections...
 
My problem with Randi isn't that he's gay. I think some folks just are gay. My problem is his agressiveness to young boys. At least according to a post Paul Kimball made with audio right on this very forum.

Way off topic here but for some reason that reminded me of an experience I had in college. I was in a debate with my professor and everyone else in my English class (Seriously, it was everyone vs me) about NAMBLA's right to speak on campus. I didn't think they should be invited (They were scheduled to do so in a week or so and did) and everyone else thought they should be. My professor was spouting off some nonsense about NAMBLA being a Greek thing (Hey, I still don't get it), another guy told me that if child molestation wasn't called child molestation then it wouldn't be child molestation (?), and another guy accused me of being anti-gay. The whole thing was pretty surreal and I'll never forget it.
 
My problem with Randi isn't that he's gay. I think some folks just are gay. My problem is his agressiveness to young boys. At least according to a post Paul Kimball made with audio right on this very forum.

What?!!?! That's disgusting and unfounded. Wow... this is really making me reconsider being part of this forum.
 
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