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James Carrion, Ghost Rockets, Roswell & the Hole in Ufology's Bucket

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Gene Steinberg

Gene Steinberg

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On the heels of recent articles from James Carrion, a former International Director for MUFON, about the skepticism that greeted his recent book, 'The Rosetta Deception," and his ongoing issues with the state of the field, we've invited him back.

The recording is set for Thursday, March 26, from 7 PM until 9 PM Eastern.

He'll also be asked about his forthcoming book, "The Roswell Deception."
 
This question might be a little premature but I'd like to know other than the ghost rockets and Roswell what other ufo cornerstones does james have in his sights ? I may have to gird my loins in that while I never really was keen on et visitation in the Roswell case I did have my balloons popped when it came to human involvement behind the ghost rocket phenomenon.

Speaking of deception is there any ufo case you found sincere or intriguing but may have been polluted by disinformation agents or even by people who perhaps muddied the waters in an effort to make it look like a slam dunk and in doing so hurt their case?
 
1) Do you think it's possible Roswell was possibly a crash of some top secret aircraft, a prototype or concept design, that just crashed and was covered-up as the initial Saucer and Balloon/Mogul debris?

2) Any possible connection this event was orchestrated to match-up with the other newspaper reported sightings of saucers elsewhere in the USA that were happening too? Perhaps this was part of some propaganda targeted for the Russians and/or to the American people too?

3) How about just simple media hysteria that's created by such newspaper accounts too? It's picked-up on decades later to create modern mythology, and the military uses it for disinformation too. After all, military people live within their "closed society" and "close ranks" to propagate military secrets long after retirement. So does the MIC. Doesn't the military just love "the retired kooks" from the military that help cover-up their secret programs and create more "paranoia money" for the MIC? That seems "in your face" obvious to me.

4) There is a long history of newspapers reporting [and older historical recorded accounts of] strange skyward objects and otherworldly beings; humans have been interested in "beings" and "entities" for religious and spiritual "belief systems" for thousands of years. Why isn't this just another "form" of this same kind of "belief system" put into a our modern context and thinking? We do it with ET UFO's, because that's "the latest and greatest" idea about how real [now it's ET] beings are coming here. There is a science fiction mode of belief that has replaced the religious beliefs to fit our "current thinking" and dominant media saturation too. Now that science is advancing even further with more quantum and multidimensional concepts it is "the older" UFO "flying saucer" that is now dying out too... That's why mostly older people [following Stanton Friedman's lead] have bought into it, the flying saucer, but the youth is going another direction with the newer quantum, multidimensional, and information science concepts. It's the new metaphorical wording to describe what humans have always thinking about. Comments?
 
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On ufology in general:
Do you think the 'phenomenon' mystery is 'solvable' in 2015?... or even in the next 10 years.
Is 'trying to catch a fly with a wet pair of noodles' a good analogy to current efforts by ufologists ? ;)
Do you think that speculation or research concerning a possible 'nuts and bolts' ET origin for a portion of the 'phenomenon' mystery is a waste of time without a more complete grasp of the nature of our universe?
Will we only know the truth when humans start playing around with warp drives... (ie. Star Trek:First Contact)

Thanks :)
 
Wade Ridsdale said:
This question might be a little premature but I'd like to know other than the ghost rockets and Roswell what other ufo cornerstones does james have in his sights ? I may have to gird my loins in that while I never really was keen on et visitation in the Roswell case I did have my balloons popped when it came to human involvement behind the ghost rocket phenomenon.

Speaking of deception is there any ufo case you found sincere or intriguing but may have been polluted by disinformation agents or even by people who perhaps muddied the waters in an effort to make it look like a slam dunk and in doing so hurt their case?
Click to expand...

There are four major cases that I have in my sights as you put it, and they all fall in the 1946-1947 time frame:
- The Ghost Rockets
- Maury Island
- Kenneth Arnold and the saucer sightings that hit the media soon after
- Roswell
 
Open-Minded-Earthling said:
1) Do you think it's possible Roswell was possibly a crash of some top secret aircraft, a prototype or concept design, that just crashed and was covered-up as the initial Saucer and Balloon/Mogul debris?
Click to expand...

I don't from the point of view of which military unit was involved. The 509th bomber group dropped the atomic bomb on Japan and was the only nuclear capable force in the world at the time. From a military intelligence point of view, it makes zero and I will repeat that, zero sense to put out a press release to say you have captured a saucer in order to cover up the crash of any prototype. Flying saucers were the most sensational item in the news at the time and by claiming to have captured one, would only invite intense interest from the media, as we all know is exactly what happened. If you want to cover up the crash of a prototype, wait first to see if the media was interested and then react. Covering up by preempting the media is a ridiculous strategy. Everyone in intelligence knows that the most important way to keep something secret is to keep your mouth shut and not draw attention to it.

2) Any possible connection this event was orchestrated to match-up with the other newspaper reported sightings of saucers elsewhere in the USA that were happening too? Perhaps this was part of some propaganda targeted for the Russians and/or to the American people too?
Click to expand...

Yes, that is possible and if Roswell was a part of a strategic deception operation, then keeping the saucer story alive in the media would be very important to that strategy.

3) How about just simple media hysteria that's created by such newspaper accounts too? It's picked-up on decades later to create modern mythology, and the military uses it for disinformation too. After all, military people live within their "closed society" and "close ranks" to propagate military secrets long after retirement. So does the MIC. Doesn't the military just love "the retired kooks" from the military that help cover-up their secret programs and create more "paranoia money" for the MIC? That seems "in your face" obvious to me.
Click to expand...

Disinformation is like garlic, a little bit goes a long way. Seed the media, watch the story grow.

4) There is a long history of newspapers reporting [and older historical recorded accounts of] strange skyward objects and otherworldly beings; humans have been interested in "beings" and "entities" for religious and spiritual "belief systems" for thousands of years. Why isn't this just another "form" of this same kind of "belief system" put into a our modern context and thinking? We do it with ET UFO's, because that's "the latest and greatest" idea about how real [now it's ET] beings are coming here. There is a science fiction mode of belief that has replaced the religious beliefs to fit our "current thinking" and dominant media saturation too. Now that science is advancing even further with more quantum and multidimensional concepts it is "the older" UFO "flying saucer" that is now dying out too... That's why mostly older people [following Stanton Friedman's lead] have bought into it, the flying saucer, but the youth is going another direction with the newer quantum, multidimensional, and information science concepts. It's the new metaphorical wording to describe what humans have always thinking about. Comments?
Click to expand...

We live in a grand mysterious universe and the mysterious is alluring. People of all ages are attracted to not only stories of flying objects but also ghosts, cryptozoological creatures, parallel universes, lost civilizations, etc... Perhaps young people shy away from Ufology because they associate it with their parents generation or perhaps they think ghost hunting is more sexy than chasing lights in the sky.
 
Ezechiel said:
On ufology in general:
Do you think the 'phenomenon' mystery is 'solvable' in 2015?... or even in the next 10 years.
Is 'trying to catch a fly with a wet pair of noodles' a good analogy to current efforts by ufologists ? ;)
Do you think that speculation or research concerning a possible 'nuts and bolts' ET origin for a portion of the 'phenomenon' mystery is a waste of time without a more complete grasp of the nature of our universe?
Will we only know the truth when humans start playing around with warp drives... (ie. Star Trek:First Contact)

Thanks :)
Click to expand...
I don't think there is a single "solution" because there are too many facets to the phenomenon. There are cases that can be solved and explained away but in the end there will still be cases left that are unexplained.
 
These are questions for the show as opposed to answering everything right here in the question bank like last time. What da ya think, can we wait till then?

1. Describe your doubts about the Arnold sighting that broke open saucer sightings across America - were these experimental craft in your opinion and if so why were there no significant subsequent sightings of similar types of craft?

2. What do you think is the purpose behind the various manipulations of Arnold during his Maury Island investigation? Was this done in order to cast doubt on his initial sighting and to begin the process of defining the UFO witness as "kooky" despite the quality of his character?

3. When we stand back and look at your initial criticisms of Ufology some might say that you are attempting to attack and dismantle the very foundational elements of Ufology (Ghost Rockets, Roswell & Arnold) - what's your opinion of the Foo Fighters seen by WWII pilots?
 
James Carrion said:
I have never visited Ray Sanford to see his film/pictures and don't know if MUFON looked at his work.
Click to expand...
Chris is a huge believer in Ray Stanford's film/pics of UFO's. Chris, who has seen Ray's work, is convinced he has the smoking guns of Ufology. I think you live out East, and, if I'm not mistaken, Ray lives near DC now. I think Chris could arrange for you to meet and see Ray's work, since Chris is such good friends with Ray too. Ray must be in his seventies or older by now, so don't wait too long if you're interested.

Why not check it out??? Chris is a big time believer...

I think Ray did document on Super 8 film with his 10x lens in 1985 a NASA or military high-altitude test possibly of some new propulsion system. I don't think it's ET, but it seems to be interesting nonetheless.
 
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James, thanks sincerely for posting here. It's always fantastic to have someone so interested as you are to 'also' take the time to post at the forum here. Maybe after the show you will come back and post to the "after show" thread too. Thanks again.
 
James, I think it is interesting that you named those four cases as worthy of digging deeper into and I assume it's because you have reason to believe that they are all connected in some way.

I am not very well versed in ufo history but it seems to me that those four you mentioned are for all intents and purposes also the first four big ufo events....plus maybe Corona... and they happened in a pretty short time frame, this suggests to me that from the very start that military intelligence felt the need to start duping the American public and in doing so created and propagated the Extraterrestrial meme. Why do you think this so ? Being that it occured with the onset of the cold war and the spreading of communism little green invaders wouldn't have been necessary, there was plenty of bogeyman here on planet earth to get us all paranoid.

Why do you think someone would feel compelled to come up with off planet invaders when we were worried that there was a commie lurking on every corner ?

Do you think there would be such a thing as UFOlogy if these cases were never conceived from the get go?

At any rate these cases did get the ball rolling when it comes to UFOLOGY. I may be completely off in assessing your intent in looking into the big four, but if these were all military psyops and your are receptive to possible off planet visitation in other instances then it's like the military paved the way for ET or IDH visitation.

Or maybe it was an early case of predictive programming.*wink wink*
 
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Open-Minded-Earthling said:
Chris is a huge believer in Ray Stanford's film/pics of UFO's. Chris, who has seen Ray's work, is convinced he has the smoking guns of Ufology. I think you live out East, and, if I'm not mistaken, Ray lives near DC now. I think Chris could arrange for you to meet and see Ray's work, since Chris is such good friends with Ray too. Ray must be in his seventies or older by now, so don't wait too long if you're interested.

Why not check it out??? Chris is a big time believer...

I think Ray did document on Super 8 film with his 10x lens in 1985 a NASA or military high-altitude test possibly of some new propulsion system. I don't think it's ET, but it seems to be interesting nonetheless.
Click to expand...

Preceding (or if necessary in lieu of) a visit with Ray Stanford during which you could view and discuss with him his videos and photographs, Christian Lambright's X-Descending can tell you a great deal about Stanford's extraordinary ufo video obtained in Corpus Christi, Texas, in 1985 and its influence, traced in detail by Lambright, on subsequent research by the Air Force Research Laboratory at Kirtland AFB (now referred to as the AFRL Space Vehicles Directorate and part of a military-industrial operation encompassing four former AF research facilities grouped under Phillips Laboratory).


Book Description:

"As no other book has ever done, X-Descending documents how private study of an unpublished daylight, multi-witness UFO movie, filmed by veteran UFO researcher Ray Stanford, resulted in a major aerospace propulsion breakthrough. Until now, no book could show that aerospace propulsion science has directly benefited from studying a UFO movie. Author Christian Lambright not only does that, he provides an in-depth documentation of how it has occurred.

Lambright doesn't stop there. He goes on to open up the mysterious Paul Bennewitz case with startlingly detailed, hitherto unpublished color film-frame images clearly revealing that whatever objects Bennewitz saw and filmed within the Manzano Weapon Storage Area at Kirtland Air Force Base, N.M., they are exotic, technological, and nothing with which, even today, we are familiar.

Included in the account of the early experiences of Paul Bennewitz is a serious examination of the counterintelligence effort to suppress the evidence of what he had seen and filmed. This book names names."


ps: thanks to @Heidi Lemmer for calling attention to Lambright's excellent book in another thread.
 
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