January 11, 2015 — David Stinnett

[SheaOlmsford]

What is true? Can anyone here show me a UFO or a real life "alien"? No you can't. What is possible? Well a lot could be possible. Wether or not I am a staunch kiss ass follower of Mr Stinnett is totally irrelevant. He has decades of research behind him. His interviews I find fascinating and am open to the possibility. And not so narrow minded as to completely dismiss him and his perfectly logical and reliable research. You mention the bible, do I believe the bible? Today's altered parts missing idiot dictated take on the bible? No. But there are very old bibles out there containing fascinating writings which I find compelling. There are people/researchers out there who have totally different ideas and theories to Mr Stinnett. Would I be so ignorant as to dismiss them? No I would not, I would sit and listen and respect the work they have done and declare it a possibility. Not close my mind and be so rude. You would like me to point out where the devil, demons and ufos are mentioned in the bible. I would like to play tongues with Brad Pitt, but it's never gonna happen.
I will say I was christened but no longer follow that faith as I will not follow a religion dictated by today's bible I do not trust. I do however believe in God.
When someone sits there for over two hours and gives you his research his findings, shares his ideas gives you thoughts on where to research. Show a little respect it costs nothing.

He did not give us any research findings. Anyone can become a fundamentalist 20 years ago and then consider his ongoing Bible study to be "research". I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian family and my dad was a pastor of a church! I probably know more about the Bible than most folks here. But that does not make me a "researcher". He was simply a man of faith who has applied that faith to the enigma of UFOs. I confess that I actually believe there may be demonic entities that come here from other dimensions to mess with us. But if I was a guest on a radio program, I would have to offer proof of this beyond gently thumping a Bible, as David did. By the way, someone is teaching him in a very strange way. David declared that Ezekiel's Wheel was a prophecy of the coming of the New Testament scriptures Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Where the hell did that come from? I went to a fundamentalist school for 12 years and never once heard anyone interpret Ezekiel's Wheel in such an arbitrary self-serving manner (self-serving in saying the Bible is full of fulfilled prophecies by creating prophecies after the fact that you already know were fulfilled).

 

[SRL+]

It’s simply that she was on a mission and her wings were clipped in the process.

 

[DaveM]

Thankfully that whole episode is over and done. I did notice that ufo angel and another women who kept liking what she said, joined the forum the very same day as the Stinnett interview. Take from that what you will.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

The fact remains that this show was great until two hours in when you turned into a dick. For me you spoiled the show. Pot Kettle whatever. There is something out there I don't know what but my mind remains very open. Unlike some of your listeners. Quit trying to sensationalise your show and stop being argumentative with your guests. You had a brilliant show going on and up until your tone changed I had the utmost respect for you and thought you were a fair and decent guy asking all the right questions I was engrossed in your show. There was no need to turn it sour.
What do I know? What have I seen? Why do people like me choose to keep our mouths tightly shut? Why did I go looking for answers? Until people like you play nicely then my dear you will never know.

I sincerely think you would be much more happy listening to Coast to Coast. They NEVER ask hard questions. If I went on Coast to Coast claiming that I was a teapot (here is my handle, here is my spout), I would be given 2 hours of total support for that claim. I think David would do very well on Coast to Coast. They often have right wing fundamentalist ministers on the show. Shows - Coast to Coast AM

 

[Jimi H.]

Aggression was unnecessary.

Halleluja, I see an angel is amongst us. Holy unto yourself at least

..That's why men sleep on the couch so much.

Haha, keep dreaming, honey, first you'd have to find someone drunk and desperate enough to follow you home.

Freak..

 

[Jimi H.]

Anyways, haven't heard the show, but I can kinda sense what went on, lol.

 

[Jimi H.]

...She even thought that converting most cars from stick shift to automatic was "demonic" (idle hands do the devil's work, ya know)...

That's pretty funny actually

Good posts!

 

[ufosRus]

I liked the interview but the problem as I see it was Gene was unfamiliar with the topic. Prior to going into a topic such as this, your preconceptions should be left at the door but Gene drug in every misconception and preconception he could find. I'm sure few here know how deep and wide Mr. Stinnett's knowledge is as I've heard him on other shows and found him fascinating and he doesn't remotely come off as a "fundamentalist". From what I've heard of him, the man has a firm grip on most modern physics models, modern archaeology finds and a host of other scientific disciplines. His actual research was never talked about. Every time he went to give a correlation Gene would step all over him. I'm sure few people posting on the thread even know who Jeff Kripal or Mike Heiser and other academics who venture into the ufo field and are sympathetic to the religious nature of the phenomenon. I'll bet Mr. Stinnett knows who these people are especially Mr. Hanson who encouraged Mr. Stinnett to explore this because he and others know there is over lap in para phenomenon and the bible texts and feel its important for it to be known. I also find it interesting that Jaques Vallee, J. Allen Hynek and John Keel have already said 40 years ago the phenomenon was "demonic". I guess no one remembers Messengers of Deception". Vallee's latest book "Wonders in the Sky" is comprised of tons of ufo sightings in antiquity which are surround a "religious" situation. So as I see it, Mr. Stinnett is in good company. He didn't ask for anyone to buy into his research but they should be aware of it and check it out for themselves. Unfortunately Gene i\has what academics call " old white guy" syndrome. Gene is stuck in that same old tired alien narrative that has lead no where. It seems to me the only person with an open mind was Mr. Stinnett. In a different interview he had spoken of Nachmonedes, a Jewish sage who wrote a scientific white paper in the 1300's about multiple dimensions. Nachmonedes paper is our present dimensional model...10 dimensions, 4 are known and 6 are hidden. He wrote this paper just from information he gathered in the biblical Genesis account. It could have been an incredible interview, but the hosts preconceptions and ignorance spoiled that.

 

[SillyRaabit]

I've been waiting for an episode that addressed the demonic/supernatural angle to the UFO and abduction question. I felt the guest did a good job of being open minded but also offering a different point of view.

I'm sympathetic to the guest's point of view (I'm a Christian). The hosts were quick to challenge this possible hypothesis. Any hypothesis should be challenged, and should withstand challenge. I do think Chris showed his bias against the Jesus defense against abduction aggression by bringing up the D'jinn--that is, another culture has an explanation for the phenomenon. But that doesn't address the research of the Jesus defense.

If there is research to support a universal religious defense--that is, if calling on the name Mohammed, Buddha, et al stops the "alien" encounter--that's worth considering. But bringing up a cultural lens for interpreting the phenomena does not address the research that points to a defense against abductions and harassment (in the context of calling upon Jesus, specifically).

I suggest interviewing Michael Heiser, a non-traditional Biblical scholar with a strong interest in ufology.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

...I do think Chris showed his bias against the Jesus defense against abduction aggression by bringing up the D'jinn--that is, another culture has an explanation for the phenomenon. But that doesn't address the research of the Jesus defense.

Both are equivocal and subject to interpretative bias—that was my point!

If there is research to support a universal religious defense--that is, if calling on the name Mohammed, Buddha, et al stops the "alien" encounter--that's worth considering. But bringing up a cultural lens for interpreting the phenomena does not address the research that points to a defense against abductions and harassment (in the context of calling upon Jesus, specifically).

Show me the data... i.e., documented examples where "calling upon" the name of a deity, saint, guru, avatar, the BVM has banished "demons" (or "aliens") and/or caused them to interrupt their process/agenda. If the example has other witnesses, I'll be surprised...

I suggest interviewing Michael Heiser, a non-traditional Biblical scholar with a strong interest in ufology.

Michael has agreed to be on the show, he and I are working out the details for his taping session...

 

[SheaOlmsford]

Forgive me for my self-indulgence (this is only the tip of that particular ice berg), but I came upon this picture today that sums up this episode for me. Click on the picture to read the text.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

I liked the interview but the problem as I see it was Gene was unfamiliar with the topic. Prior to going into a topic such as this, your preconceptions should be left at the door but Gene drug in every misconception and preconception he could find. I'm sure few here know how deep and wide Mr. Stinnett's knowledge is as I've heard him on other shows and found him fascinating and he doesn't remotely come off as a "fundamentalist". From what I've heard of him, the man has a firm grip on most modern physics models, modern archaeology finds and a host of other scientific disciplines. His actual research was never talked about. Every time he went to give a correlation Gene would step all over him. I'm sure few people posting on the thread even know who Jeff Kripal or Mike Heiser and other academics who venture into the ufo field and are sympathetic to the religious nature of the phenomenon. I'll bet Mr. Stinnett knows who these people are especially Mr. Hanson who encouraged Mr. Stinnett to explore this because he and others know there is over lap in para phenomenon and the bible texts and feel its important for it to be known. I also find it interesting that Jaques Vallee, J. Allen Hynek and John Keel have already said 40 years ago the phenomenon was "demonic". I guess no one remembers Messengers of Deception". Vallee's latest book "Wonders in the Sky" is comprised of tons of ufo sightings in antiquity which are surround a "religious" situation. So as I see it, Mr. Stinnett is in good company. He didn't ask for anyone to buy into his research but they should be aware of it and check it out for themselves. Unfortunately Gene i\has what academics call " old white guy" syndrome. Gene is stuck in that same old tired alien narrative that has lead no where. It seems to me the only person with an open mind was Mr. Stinnett. In a different interview he had spoken of Nachmonedes, a Jewish sage who wrote a scientific white paper in the 1300's about multiple dimensions. Nachmonedes paper is our present dimensional model...10 dimensions, 4 are known and 6 are hidden. He wrote this paper just from information he gathered in the biblical Genesis account. It could have been an incredible interview, but the hosts preconceptions and ignorance spoiled that.

I have MESSENGERS OF DECEPTION right in my fat little hands right now. No where does Jacques Vallee say that this phenomena is demonic. He says it seems sinister and may consciously act as a control system for humankind. Perhaps you are referring to CONFRONTATIONS, where Vallee says that "alien encounters are often accompanied by sadistic sexual manipulation, is reminiscent of medieval tales of encounters with demons" But this is a big leap to then claim that Jacques Vallee said this phenomena was demonic. He used the word to describe it, not define it.

By the way, I have read Kripal's latest book, and Mike Heiser's fictional portrayal of aliens as demons in THE FACADE. I also have listened extensively to L. A. Marzulli, who at least makes his fundamentalist viewpoint entertaining and interesting. I have also watched lectures by Chuck Misler, Guy Malone, Steve Quayle (Hagmann and Hagmann report) David Flynn (RIP), Tom Horn, Joe Jordan and a host of other "Aliens are demons. Jesus is the answer" proponents. Mr. Stinnett couldn't hold a candle to any of these gentlemen in terms of explaining his viewpoint in this Paracast interview. The fault lay with Mr. Stinnett. He had 2 hours to present his evidence. All he did instead was point to the Bible under the myopic viewpoint that this alone would satisfy a secular audience.

Gene and Chris, if you want to have a guest that can provide case evidence of supposed alien abduction banishment through the power of Jesus Christ (relying on more than just referring for 2 hours to the Bible), google JOE JORDAN. There are videos of him and his cast of abductees saved supposedly by saying the magic words on YOUTUBE. He would give us all more meat to focus on.

 

[SRL+]

I liked the interview but the problem as I see it was Gene was unfamiliar with the topic. Prior to going into a topic such as this, your preconceptions should be left at the door but Gene drug in every misconception and preconception he could find. I'm sure few here know how deep and wide Mr. Stinnett's knowledge is as I've heard him on other shows and found him fascinating and he doesn't remotely come off as a "fundamentalist". From what I've heard of him, the man has a firm grip on most modern physics models, modern archaeology finds and a host of other scientific disciplines. His actual research was never talked about. Every time he went to give a correlation Gene would step all over him. I'm sure few people posting on the thread even know who Jeff Kripal or Mike Heiser and other academics who venture into the ufo field and are sympathetic to the religious nature of the phenomenon. I'll bet Mr. Stinnett knows who these people are especially Mr. Hanson who encouraged Mr. Stinnett to explore this because he and others know there is over lap in para phenomenon and the bible texts and feel its important for it to be known. I also find it interesting that Jaques Vallee, J. Allen Hynek and John Keel have already said 40 years ago the phenomenon was "demonic". I guess no one remembers Messengers of Deception". Vallee's latest book "Wonders in the Sky" is comprised of tons of ufo sightings in antiquity which are surround a "religious" situation. So as I see it, Mr. Stinnett is in good company. He didn't ask for anyone to buy into his research but they should be aware of it and check it out for themselves. Unfortunately Gene i\has what academics call " old white guy" syndrome. Gene is stuck in that same old tired alien narrative that has lead no where. It seems to me the only person with an open mind was Mr. Stinnett. In a different interview he had spoken of Nachmonedes, a Jewish sage who wrote a scientific white paper in the 1300's about multiple dimensions. Nachmonedes paper is our present dimensional model...10 dimensions, 4 are known and 6 are hidden. He wrote this paper just from information he gathered in the biblical Genesis account. It could have been an incredible interview, but the hosts preconceptions and ignorance spoiled that.

If in fact you think Stinnett has such a “firm” grasp on the disciplines, authors, and researchers, you’ve been deceived. You have not mentioned Jaime Maussan who Stinnett has booked to present during “The Great NJ UFO Consciousness Conference”. As conference director, Stinnett, (if so knowledgeable), should certainly have been aware of Maussan’s murky past, as the man dwells in “The UFO Hall of Shame”. Perhaps you can explain David’s reasoning here, along with his current understanding of subatomic particle physics.

Jamie Maussan

 

[Gene Steinberg]

I liked the interview but the problem as I see it was Gene was unfamiliar with the topic. Prior to going into a topic such as this, your preconceptions should be left at the door but Gene drug in every misconception and preconception he could find. I'm sure few here know how deep and wide Mr. Stinnett's knowledge is as I've heard him on other shows and found him fascinating and he doesn't remotely come off as a "fundamentalist". From what I've heard of him, the man has a firm grip on most modern physics models, modern archaeology finds and a host of other scientific disciplines. His actual research was never talked about. Every time he went to give a correlation Gene would step all over him. I'm sure few people posting on the thread even know who Jeff Kripal or Mike Heiser and other academics who venture into the ufo field and are sympathetic to the religious nature of the phenomenon. I'll bet Mr. Stinnett knows who these people are especially Mr. Hanson who encouraged Mr. Stinnett to explore this because he and others know there is over lap in para phenomenon and the bible texts and feel its important for it to be known. I also find it interesting that Jaques Vallee, J. Allen Hynek and John Keel have already said 40 years ago the phenomenon was "demonic". I guess no one remembers Messengers of Deception". Vallee's latest book "Wonders in the Sky" is comprised of tons of ufo sightings in antiquity which are surround a "religious" situation. So as I see it, Mr. Stinnett is in good company. He didn't ask for anyone to buy into his research but they should be aware of it and check it out for themselves. Unfortunately Gene i\has what academics call " old white guy" syndrome. Gene is stuck in that same old tired alien narrative that has lead no where. It seems to me the only person with an open mind was Mr. Stinnett. In a different interview he had spoken of Nachmonedes, a Jewish sage who wrote a scientific white paper in the 1300's about multiple dimensions. Nachmonedes paper is our present dimensional model...10 dimensions, 4 are known and 6 are hidden. He wrote this paper just from information he gathered in the biblical Genesis account. It could have been an incredible interview, but the hosts preconceptions and ignorance spoiled that.

You make assumptions that have nothing to do with me. It's about Stinnett's knowledge and his inability to answer simple questions. As I explain in After The Paracast, I have encountered the UFOs-are-demons meme before. You seem to be so quick to defend Stinnett but you have no grasp on the meaning of my questions. Can you answer them?

 

[SillyRaabit]

Thanks for the clarification, Chris. And thank you for inviting an "outside" perspective to the show.

I'll point to Joe Jordan, Dr. David Allen Lewis, and Heiser as the most well-known voices (that I'm aware of) for the Christian perspective, although they (especially Heiser) probably have different perspectives within a similar worldview vein. I know there was a slew of others interested in the Jesus defense who gathered a few years ago at the Ancient of Days conference, but I haven't sifted through all of the presentations.

As others have mentioned, "mainstream" ufologists have pointed in the spiritual direction, but their conclusions aren't necessarily Christian. There's varying mileage as to the methodology and qualitative value, of course.

FutureQuake is a show I discovered late (now cancelled), but it's a topic they broached often. I'll have to dig into their back catalog to see who was doing work on the subject.

I'm really looking forward to the Heiser interview. He's always got something interesting--and challenging--to say, no matter the worldview.

 

[PISTOL_STAR]

The interview was going well until Stinnet started stuttering and seemed flabbergasted at the questions being asked of him by Gene. I feel that other more educated people would have at least been able to answer some of the questions, but Stinnet really seems floored by them. I found myself answering some of the questions in my head hehe.

Anyways, I thought Gene was moderately respectful when asking. The few people here who thought gene was out of line seem to believe Gene should have just accepted what he was saying? Question nothing? C'mon!

 

[SillyRaabit]

Gene and Chris, if you want to have a guest that can provide case evidence of supposed alien abduction banishment through the power of Jesus Christ (relying on more than just referring for 2 hours to the Bible), google JOE JORDAN. There are videos of him and his cast of abductees saved supposedly by saying the magic words on YOUTUBE. He would give us all more meat to focus on.

Yes, Joe Jordan has a mountain of testimonials (including folks in some well-known cases). I would be very interested in seeing if he could stand up to Gene and Chris's questioning. But if he's not available, from the sounds of things I bet you could play devil's (?) advocate for the Christian-ufology crowd.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

Yes, Joe Jordan has a mountain of testimonials (including folks in some well-known cases). I would be very interested in seeing if he could stand up to Gene and Chris's questioning. But if he's not available, from the sounds of things I bet you could play devil's (?) advocate for the Christian-ufology crowd.

While I research all options that may explain the UFO and abduction phenomena, I do not subscribe to any existing theory. While I tend towards thinking this phenomena acts in a demonic manner (as do many human beings), that is not the same as defining it as being literal demons. Once you use that word, you bring along all the Christian baggage that I no longer support.

But I will lay my cards on the table.

I had SUFFERED from abduction experiences since childhood. I never saw any blonde hunks or space brothers spouting pop psychology. Instead, I got the grey manifestation. In one such event, a very tall grey screwed something deep into my ear. Afterwards, I became feverish. My parents rushed me to the doctor, who said my eardrum had been punctured. I was immediately put into the hospital and a specialist flew in to perform ear surgery to save my hearing (although I lost about 50% in that ear). I share this to illustrate that such phenomena can leave physical life time damage.

So in 1998, I had a dream. In the dream, I was up on a ladder cleaning the ornamental carvings on the ceiling of my house. Suddenly, I KNEW that "they" were going to manifest in the next room. It was like an ancient evil (which I had denied existed) was suddenly back in my life.

I got down off the ladder and went into the adjoining room. In front of me was a blue orb, which was slowly growing, like the bubble that Glinda the Good Witch came out of in The Wizard of Oz. I knew the entities would emerge from this growing orb. [An asside: whenever there was an abduction, suddenly I had access to a "Drive" that I normally do not know exists. I remember all the previous abduction experiences and "rules" of manifestation. This computer analogy to a exterior Drive that is not normally visible seems very appropriate.]

Suddenly, I spoke. But it was not me consciously speaking. Instead, the voice seemed to come through me as if I was channeling it.

The voice said "I am in the Family of Jesus Christ!" in a very authoritative tone.

Immediately the orb vanished.

At that point I woke up, feeling great peace and joy.

I have not had an abduction experience (at least that I am aware of) since that night.

OK, it was just a dream, but it felt like a strong REAL experience.

But this is important to relate. Although raised as a Christian in a brutal manner in a fundamentalist family, I was then no longer a Christian. I am not a Christian. As a gay man, it is a little hard to be a member of a religion that loathes your guts, and isn't afraid to say so and work politically to cause you harm.

So how do I explain this?

Was this my subconscious coming up with my version of a super hero from childhood to vanquish the greys? That would make sense.

However, the strangest part is that it seemed to work, even though it was a dream. Was the voice my subconscious or superconsciousness, reminding me that I belong to something magnificent beyond this physical form? Did I just use the language of my youthful programming?

Unless the entire thing was just a deception foisted upon my dream state, I actually had a dramatic change in my physical life after this dream. As I said, the abductions stopped.

Make of this as you will.


[UPDATE: and the response so far is the sound of crickets]

 

[Richard Hawkins]

Where have all the serious researchers gone?Present company exempted.

 

[Sand]

After reading the comments on the Forum, I considered just skipping the main show and going straight to After The Paracast. But I actually found the main show entertaining. It provided an interesting window into that worldview of UFOs. Though I have to wonder how representative Stinnett’s confused presentation actually was of that view. It’s difficult to follow a person’s rationale when one minute he is arguing against extraterrestrials by saying “you have the Fermi problem” (I assume he was referring to the logic of the Fermi Paradox which states that if extraterrestrials exist they should have expanded throughout the galaxy and be here – as in UFOs). Then less than a minute later he’s saying we are in such an obscure location in the galaxy, how could extraterrestrials ever have found us.

Regarding the Jesus defense. Barney Hill said that during his experience his thoughts repeatedly turned to God and Jesus. It had no affect on the continuation of the abduction event.

Considering the circumstances, I thought Gene and Chris did as good job as possible of trying to get Stinnett to present a rational case for his views. When asked what his views were on the “demons” agenda, just basically throwing out the term “Planck length” provided nothing.