Kay'-Up to this Point

[Ron Collins]

Hi Don,

I have a weird suggestion. You are a verifiable SpecOps veteran. How about interviewing some other SpecOps veterans with the idea of getting their take on the possibility of UFO's being U.S. military aircraft. I made a case for why this doesn't make sense to me a very long winded post some time ago. Here is the link.

Counter-Evidence for Man Made UFO claims

Basically, I think it would be nice to get the opinions of highly trained and strategy savvy elite soldiers on:

A) How a craft with the common characteristics of UFO's might be utilized from a strategy standpoint.
B) From a SpecOps standpoint how important would these type of craft be?
C) Is there a history of the military creating specialized craft for SpecOps and if so (yes, this is a loaded question) to what level of sophistication are they?
D) In their opinion are craft with these characteristics in use by the U.S. Military?
E) In their opinion is the military capable of a coverup of this scale?

And about a billion other questions. Ideally it would be cool to have 2 or 3 guys in a quasi-roundtable setting. It would be a departure from the paranormal/UFO heavy material but VERY interesting and insightful.

Love the show by the way. Great guests and you don't seem to have a problem filling the time with relevant content. I do echo trainedobservers point about volume control. Your voice does seem to boom over the guests at times. I figure it has to do with the callers phone/service and the ability of your recorder to adjust levels on multiple tracks. It is almost like it is all coming in on one stereo track. If it is multi-track you might try decreasing your track volume a bit Or I could be totally wrong.

 

[Decker]

Hi Don,

I have a weird suggestion. You are a verifiable SpecOps veteran. How about interviewing some other SpecOps veterans with the idea of getting their take on the possibility of UFO's being U.S. military aircraft. I made a case for why this doesn't make sense to me a very long winded post some time ago.

Basically, I think it would be nice to get the opinions of highly trained and strategy savvy elite soldiers on:

A) How a craft with the common characteristics of UFO's might be utilized from a strategy standpoint.
B) From a SpecOps standpoint how important would these type of craft be?
C) Is there a history of the military creating specialized craft for SpecOps and if so (yes, this is a loaded question) to what level of sophistication are they?
D) In their opinion are craft with these characteristics in use by the U.S. Military?
E) In their opinion is the military capable of a coverup of this scale?

Ron, you have made a brilliant suggestion. Damn, I should have thought of that! LOL.... Let me do some searching about for some guys that might be up for it. Again, one hell of an idea! Thanks.

Don

 

[Ron Collins]

Ron, you have made a brilliant suggestion. Damn, I should have thought of that! LOL.... Let me do some searching about for some guys that might be up for it. Again, one hell of an idea! Thanks.

Don

Thanks! Please let us know when this show might air. I usually listen to the shows via the archive but would like to call in to ask some questions on this one.

Thanks,
Ron

 

[saucerwench]

Ummmmm errrrr uhhhhhh eeee ooo (crawl crawl crawl grovel.......) Hi Don and Kimball it's me Simone. I want to comment to Dons thread-start post as me. I'm truly apologetic for my self banning and #%*&!!!---stuff. I truly didn't mean it; to that extent, and way-expressed. I was upset at that moment for a number of things, and decided to dramatically go off with a bang. But I will never do that again. I will never deface this forum again. Sorry Paul Kimball. I did not want to leave the bridge burned -- (and myself burned in your memories) like that. (Too late, I'm sure, though....) I really don't "despise" anyone, but I do despise various things.
Don, I totally relate. You sound like someone alone in the universe calling out, "Is anyone out there? Helooooo! Come in please!" In a sense. I had been feeling disapointed that after my shows, no one in the chat forums expressed much further curiosity or empathy and this-or-that. But it further disapoints me to know that (well I'm pretty certain anyway) people want mostly, for me to have gone on about the 'Ebens' and my 'interractions' with them (not) and all sorts of stuff --like-- that, about 'spaceships' and stuff. INSTEAD, I have become very, okay okay; cynical. I won't say skeptical, for you purists. Nuthin wrong with exactness.
I had gotten on this bold streak of expressing my political and social leanings. Hoping to actually, as a matter of fact, be blatantly thumbing my nose at any 'conservative' CIA-types that might be nosing around. I got it out of my system. I won't do that anymore either. Sorry Don and you others, but here is me: Ultra far Left radically anti-war Left, (scandinavian) Socialist Left, and I hate Libertarianism and if I were the Maximum Leader, I'd make Janet Reno --really-- look like the Easter Bunny, and land black helicopters on every last lawn in this great-land-of-ours and sieze every last gun out of every last (if necessary) cold dead hand.
Your move. (Or.....not.)

 

[Decker]

I had gotten on this bold streak of expressing my political and social leanings. Hoping to actually, as a matter of fact, be blatantly thumbing my nose at any 'conservative' CIA-types that might be nosing around. I got it out of my system. I won't do that anymore either. Sorry Don and you others, but here is me: Ultra far Left radically anti-war Left, (scandinavian) Socialist Left, and I hate Libertarianism and if I were the Maximum Leader, I'd make Janet Reno --really-- look like the Easter Bunny, and land black helicopters on every last lawn in this great-land-of-ours and sieze every last gun out of every last (if necessary) cold dead hand.
Your move. (Or.....not.)

Simone, concerning the above ... have you ever taken the time to read the U.S. Constitution? How's about the Bill of Rights? I can't speak for anyone else of course, but with me ... you would HAVE TO PRY it from my "Cold Dead Fingers". Now, is that EXACT enough for you?

Decker

 

[stonehart]

Just keep em coming DM is doing great and you are doing an oustanding job.

 

[trainedobserver]

I'd make Janet Reno --really-- look like the Easter Bunny, and land black helicopters on every last lawn in this great-land-of-ours and sieze every last gun out of every last (if necessary) cold dead hand.

What an utterly bizarre thing to say. That is absolute horse-shit. Who gets to decide who flies the "black helicopters" and who shoots who in your fantasy world? You, the self-appointed Maximum Socialist Leader? You need to educate yourself as Don suggested. Didn't you swear an oath to defend the Constitution at one point? Doesn't it go something like,
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I just have an absolute zero tolerance for that type of ignorant rant by someone invoking socialism and paramilitary raids on law abiding American citizens.

 

[saucerwench]

What an utterly bizarre thing to say. That is absolute horse-shit. Who gets to decide who flies the "black helicopters" and who shoots who in your fantasy world? You, the self-appointed Maximum Socialist Leader? You need to educate yourself as Don suggested. Didn't you swear an oath to defend the Constitution at one point? Doesn't it go something like,
"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

I just have an absolute zero tolerance for that type of ignorant rant by someone invoking socialism and paramilitary raids on law abiding American citizens.

Guns are on my mind today, re. the US Supreme Court decision yesterday by those ultra far right wing 'justices' --activists--, to kill Chicago's long-term ban on your beloved little weapons of mass destruction. By-the-way Don, I do NOT wish for you to have a "cold dead hand", I just hate hate annnnd hate,; guns and gun ownership. And was more venting, than evilly plotting to one day rival the likes of Dr. Evil, for example. Trainedobserver, I am no longer in the military, and have not been, for 22 years. I have been totally a civillian for the entire life of a 22 yr'old young grownup.
So in regards to the constitution. Someone explain to me, how a "well regulated militia" is Average Joe and his gun.

 

[trainedobserver]

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't one of the reasons Tojo found the idea of invading the U.S. so distasteful was the fact that behind almost every door was a loaded gun and someone who knew how to use it?

 

[Paul Kimball]

Hi Don,

I have a weird suggestion. You are a verifiable SpecOps veteran. How about interviewing some other SpecOps veterans with the idea of getting their take on the possibility of UFO's being U.S. military aircraft. I made a case for why this doesn't make sense to me a very long winded post some time ago. Here is the link.

Counter-Evidence for Man Made UFO claims

Basically, I think it would be nice to get the opinions of highly trained and strategy savvy elite soldiers on:

A) How a craft with the common characteristics of UFO's might be utilized from a strategy standpoint.
B) From a SpecOps standpoint how important would these type of craft be?
C) Is there a history of the military creating specialized craft for SpecOps and if so (yes, this is a loaded question) to what level of sophistication are they?
D) In their opinion are craft with these characteristics in use by the U.S. Military?
E) In their opinion is the military capable of a coverup of this scale?

And about a billion other questions. Ideally it would be cool to have 2 or 3 guys in a quasi-roundtable setting. It would be a departure from the paranormal/UFO heavy material but VERY interesting and insightful.

Love the show by the way. Great guests and you don't seem to have a problem filling the time with relevant content. I do echo trainedobservers point about volume control. Your voice does seem to boom over the guests at times. I figure it has to do with the callers phone/service and the ability of your recorder to adjust levels on multiple tracks. It is almost like it is all coming in on one stereo track. If it is multi-track you might try decreasing your track volume a bit Or I could be totally wrong.

You might want to listen (or re-listen) to the recent Nick Pope episode and the discussion of the "Belgian triangles" case from 1989-90, where Nick explains why in his opinion they were not TS military aircraft, for reasons that have nothing to do with their performance characteristics or military strategy.

---------- Post added at 02:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:51 AM ----------

So in regards to the constitution. Someone explain to me, how a "well regulated militia" is Average Joe and his gun.

It isn't... unless you happen to be a right-wing Supreme Court justice or a member of the NRA.

---------- Post added at 02:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:53 AM ----------

Ummmmm errrrr uhhhhhh eeee ooo (crawl crawl crawl grovel.......) Hi Don and Kimball it's me Simone. I want to comment to Dons thread-start post as me. I'm truly apologetic for my self banning and #%*&!!!---stuff. I truly didn't mean it; to that extent, and way-expressed. I was upset at that moment for a number of things, and decided to dramatically go off with a bang. But I will never do that again. I will never deface this forum again. Sorry Paul Kimball. I did not want to leave the bridge burned -- (and myself burned in your memories) like that. (Too late, I'm sure, though....) I really don't "despise" anyone, but I do despise various things.
...

I had gotten on this bold streak of expressing my political and social leanings. Hoping to actually, as a matter of fact, be blatantly thumbing my nose at any 'conservative' CIA-types that might be nosing around. I got it out of my system. I won't do that anymore either. Sorry Don and you others, but here is me: Ultra far Left radically anti-war Left, (scandinavian) Socialist Left, and I hate Libertarianism and if I were the Maximum Leader, I'd make Janet Reno --really-- look like the Easter Bunny, and land black helicopters on every last lawn in this great-land-of-ours and sieze every last gun out of every last (if necessary) cold dead hand.
Your move. (Or.....not.)

Welcome back.

I'm all for gun control, as are most police officers I know. I wouldn't advocate flying black helicopters into everyone's back yard who owns a gun, however. :

 

[Dana]

Someone explain to me, how a "well regulated militia" is Average Joe and his gun.

Hi Simone,

i really enjoyed constitutional law back in College and i think this clip from Penn and Tellers show Bull**** explain perfectly what the 2nd amendment says, and the supreme court agrees with them.

 

[Decker]

You might want to listen (or re-listen) to the recent Nick Pope episode and the discussion of the "Belgian triangles" case from 1989-90, where Nick explains why in his opinion they were not TS military aircraft, for reasons that have nothing to do with their performance characteristics or military strategy.

---------- Post added at 02:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:51 AM ----------

Originally Posted by saucerwench So in regards to the constitution. Someone explain to me, how a "well regulated militia" is Average Joe and his gun.

It isn't... unless you happen to be a right-wing Supreme Court justice or a member of the NRA.

---------- Post added at 02:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:53 AM ----------



Welcome back.

I'm all for gun control, as are most police officers I know. I wouldn't advocate flying black helicopters into everyone's back yard who owns a gun, however. :

Okay, I am gonna do something that I usually do not do here ... as a rule ... but this is something I feel VERY STRONGLY about.

Simone ... read the 2nd Amendment. "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." When this was written, it followed the conclusion of the American Revolution. At that time there were no standing army's and when necessary the citizens would form into militia's to battle what ever threat was looming. Until the War of 1812 that mostly meant warring Native Americans or Indians. The right of self defense went way back into English Law and contrary to what many believe today, many in Great Britian bore arms or had them available in their homes. But England had a class system and many in the English Aristocracy were not comfortable with the lower classes owning arms. Free men own arms, slaves do not.

The entire American Revolution began with the Brits going for a "gun grab" on April 19th, 1775 and that was the "shot heard around the world" that began the revolution. The American Founding Fathers knew that governments can and do become corrupt ... and another reason they included the right to bear arms right after the 1st Amendment (freedom of speech) was in the event the government became tyrannical the citizens had a means to redress the system.

Today it appears that our social structure is fraying. Take a look at Arizona, there are places that the state authorities and law enforcement caution citizens to not even travel to. Why? Mexican drug gangs, people trafficing in people, kidnapping, murder and so on. This is why the 2nd Amendment exists.

Those cops that Paul refers to must all be Canadian because all the cops I know were almost to a man ... firm defenders of the 2nd Amendment. Take me for example, former military, former law enforcement ... which means the day my government does not trust me with a firearm is the day I stop trusting my government. That will be a very bad day indeed. The bottom line is a firearm is simply a tool and much like a hammer, a screw-driver, a chainsaw, a crowbar a kitchen knife ... are all tools that can be misused. Do we talk about a ban on hammers or screw-drivers or kitchen knives? All have been used to injure, maim and kill. Nope, but firearms are a much easier target. And ... most of the irrational fear about firearms are by people that are mostly ignorant of them. They never were in the military or were taught by organizations LIKE THE NRA the proper way firearms should be handled or stored or checked or whatever. To be quite honest about it ... the day somebody comes beating in my door to confiscate my firearm will be a bad day. I look at it as my final line of defense against tyranny and aggression and the defense of my home and family. I will fight.

Decker

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Paul was talking about gun control though, which is something that is completely different. You do realize you can buy a gun in Canada, right? However, because of our gun control laws, there are far fewer gun related deaths in Canada.

 

[Paul Kimball]

To be quite honest about it ... the day somebody comes beating in my door to confiscate my firearm will be a bad day. I look at it as my final line of defense against tyranny and aggression and the defense of my home and family. I will fight.

Decker

Hypothetical for you. If Sherriff's deputies showed up at your house to confiscate your weapons, even if they were there illegally or in error (and believe me, anyone who thinks that mistakes don't happen in law enforcement is nuts), would you hand the guns over and then attempt to redress it through the courts, or would you start shooting at police officers?

 

[Decker]

Paul was talking about gun control though, which is something that is completely different. You do realize you can buy a gun in Canada, right? However, because of our gun control laws, there are far fewer gun related deaths in Canada.

I realize that if you own a firearm in Canada and you piss off your neighbor and they call the cops on you, the cops can come to your home and confiscate your firearm.

And... speaking of far fewer deaths .. yea you are probably right. But then we have over 300 million people in the US which translates to a hell of a lot more people with firearms than Canada. Hey, how many people in Canada kill people in drunken driving accidents? A lot do here ... and I have yet to see any sizable number of people crying to ban either alcohol or vehicles. Yet ... although the Left does hate SUV's. Hey, maybe they can confiscate SUV's and we will call it even.

Decker

 

[Paul Kimball]

Hi Simone,

i really enjoyed constitutional law back in College and i think this clip from Penn and Tellers show Bull**** explain perfectly what the 2nd amendment says, and the supreme court agrees with them.

Ahh yes, those two great legal minds, Penn and Teller.

They totally ignore or misrepresent the context of the times in which the 2nd amendment was written, which pretty much locks down what the authors meant - private citizens could keep guns because when called up for militia duty, they would have their own weapons, as the militia didn't provide them (as the National Guard obviously does now, for example).

I would counter their lame argument by asking this question - if the authors intended for citizens to have the absolute and unfettered right to bear arms separate from militia duty, then why not have two clauses, one to cover militia duty, and one to cover private weapons?

And just because the gun-lobby can find five Supreme Court justices who buy this crap doesn't mean it's right. Using that "logic," then I expect that when the day comes that gun-control advocates can find five justices to support their position (and that day is coming), then the NRA and all the gun-owners will simply shrug and say, "well, I guess they're right."

Sure they will.

---------- Post added at 04:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 AM ----------

I realize that if you own a firearm in Canada and you piss off your neighbor and they call the cops on you, the cops can come to your home and confiscate your firearm.

And... speaking of far fewer deaths .. yea you are probably right. But then we have over 300 million people in the US which translates to a hell of a lot more people with firearms than Canada. Hey, how many people in Canada kill people in drunken driving accidents? A lot do here ... and I have yet to see any sizable number of people crying to ban either alcohol or vehicles. Yet ... although the Left does hate SUV's. Hey, maybe they can confiscate SUV's and we will call it even.

Decker

Don,

AoI was speaking on a per capita basis.

 

[Decker]

That sounds more than just a bit like something Bill Cooper would have said Don. Which is a bit scary.

Understand, I'm not saying it to offend you, or inflame the discussion. I'm saying it because, standing back and looking at it objectively, I can't see the difference.

Hypothetical for you. If Sherriff's deputies showed up at your house to confiscate your weapons, even if they were there illegally or in error (and believe me, anyone who thinks that mistakes don't happen in law enforcement is nuts), would you hand the guns over and then attempt to redress it through the courts, or would you start shooting at police officers?

IF they have a warrant I will obey the warrant. I was talking about a "gun-grab" because the government decides they don't think that the public should be allowed to "keep and bear firearms" any longer. If you don't see the difference Paul, then one of two things ... you've been a lawyer for too long or Canada has rubbed off on you.

 

[Paul Kimball]

IF they have a warrant I will obey the warrant. I was talking about a "gun-grab" because the government decides they don't think that the public should be allowed to "keep and bear firearms" any longer. If you don't see the difference Paul, then one of two things ... you've been a lawyer for too long or Canada has rubbed off on you.

Well, I was talking about if the police made a mistake, because your rhetoric was pretty inflammatory. And now you're saying that if a democratically-elected government, in a decision backed-up by the Supreme Court, mandated that private citizens would have to give up some or even all of their weapons, you would actively and violently resist them.

Look, you and I will never see eye to eye on this Don, so I'll just bow to the wisdom of my American cousins, keep my head down whenever I'm traveling south of the border, and hope for the best.

 

[AdamI]

You always have the most interesting guests Don, and the questions you ask are really top notch. The only criticism I have of DMR is regarding the political tangents the show often goes off into. They pain me, greatly.

I agree about the politics. I find it hard to listen sometimes because of that.

It wouldn't be any different if it were "standard" left or far-left politics. The whole right-wing/left-wing thing is a clown show that just distracts us from what's really going on. Right-wing and left-wing thought well... isn't. Both the right and the left are loose groupings of irrelevant nonsense linked together by herd effects.

Both the right and the left are destroying America. I find it painful to listen to either side's idiotic drivel.

 

[Anaximander]

And now you're saying that if a democratically-elected government, in a decision backed-up by the Supreme Court, mandated that private citizens would have to give up some or even all of their weapons, you would actively and violently resist them. Wow.

History would back up those who resisted.

When governments go in for mass gun confiscation, it's usually because they're coming for something else and they'd prefer you unarmed and unable to resist what comes next.

I hope such a thing does not happen in the United States. The union wouldn't survive and people would die and there would be no going back until whatever got started played out right through 'til the end. And with 300 million people and and equal amount of guns, lord only knows how long that would take. There would probably be drone strikes.

Not to mention the military. I don't know how they would handle such an order. Most will obey, but the ones who don't won't just refuse - and beyond that I won't even speculate on what they would do next.

*Eventually- should things get so bad - one or more states with nuclear weapons, the means to deliver and the will to use them will secede from the union. This state may offer protection to other non-nuclear states which also wish to secede.

America will be in a nuclear stand-off with itself, but at least everyone will know where they stand at that point.


Edit:

So I guess if was in a position of great power and I wanted to destroy America; I would just order all the privately owned guns confiscated and then sit back and watch the nation tear itself apart. Maybe give a nudge here and there.