Let's solve a major component of the UFO mystery once and for all...

[DavidRavenMoon]

News to me. I recently heard that a Frenchmen figured out it was built using an internal ramp, btw.

And not a single one of these people can build one using their ideas. Remember the show on Nova? They tried to build a small one, and ended up having to use a crane, and still couldn't do it.

Pyramids were not tombs. They never found a single body in one that wasn't put there at a later time. The tombs were very different and were underground.

Don't believe all the mainstream "experts" on this stuff.

 

[Trajanus]

And not a single one of these people can build one using their ideas. Remember the show on Nova? They tried to build a small one, and ended up having to use a crane, and still couldn't do it.

I don't know if the internal ramp idea was tried.

Pyramids were not tombs.

Then what were they for? It's hard to beieve an advanced culure would have any use for them.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

I don't know if the internal ramp idea was tried.

None of these things are ever tried. It's just an idea someone comes up with with no evidence it was ever used, and then they proclaim that's the answer! They are unproven hypotheses. They are not the final answers. That's an important distinction.

These same people also insist they cut granite with copper tools!

Then what were they for? It's hard to beieve an advanced culure would have any use for them.

We don't know what they were used for. If we don't understand what they were made for, or what they are, how can you decide an advanced culture couldn't use them? That's a circular argument.

One interesting proposal is in the book The Giza Power Plant.

I'm not sure he's totally right about his ideas, but he makes very valid points about many aspects of great pyramid and how it was constructed.

It was obvious to me since I was a kid that that thing was never even made to have people walking inside of it. It was also sealed shut, and an opening had to be dug by Caliph Al-Ma'mum and his men around 820 AD. If you look at existing Egyptian tombs, they are laid out like houses. They have rooms and hallways and doors and everything. They are also very decorated.

And as I said, no body was ever found in the great pyramid. It wasn't grave robbed, since it was sealed shut. And the "graffiti" that supposedly shows it was built for Khufu/Cheops was probably written by Howard Vyse when he crawled up there through a crack so he could be credited for the discovery.

There is also evidence that an explosion had occurred in the King's chamber that was then repaired. The explosion unseated the roof of the King's Chamber. Why would there be an explosion of that magnitude in a tomb? You can see the King's Chamber is cracked in several places, and in some were plastered up in ancient times.

The problem with mainstream Egyptologist is they do not want to rock the boat. Everyone has a career they want to hold on to. They didn't want to accept that the Sphinx was so old that it had signs of water erosion. The head that we see is newer.

The bottom line is we don't have the answered to what he Great Pyramid was for, and even who built it. The Egyptians kept thorough records, and yet thy have none for building the Great Pyramid, only for renovating the area around it.

And with my own personal experiences, I was told it was a device of some sort when I was in 1st grade. My older brother had a similar experience when he was younger, when as our mom showed him pictures of the pyramids, a voice told him not to listen that it was all lies.

So it's better to keep an open mind about these structures than to believe some hypotheses that can't be proven. Forget about how they moved those big stones... or even cut them with optical precision.. what's the damn thing for? A monument? Then why all the crazy and precise chambers and passageways and shafts inside? It's too oddly complicated to be a tomb or monument.

Now in comparison, look at the stepped pyramids in the area. They are crudely made and hollow on the inside. And many of them caved in. Those are likely made by the Egyptians we know. And they couldn't do it well either. And they were obviously skilled... look at the Valley of the Kings. That's where the tombs are.

 

[skunkape]

These same people also insist they cut granite with copper tools!

Forget about how they moved those big stones... or even cut them with optical precision.. what's the damn thing for?

Cutting granite with copper would be like carving wood with a stick of butter. I know I've heard the theory put forward, but it occurred to me as child, independently, that the Egyptians had the technology to liquify stone and pour it into forms.
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[Trajanus]

..look at the Valley of the Kings. That's where the tombs are

AFAIK only those of New Kingdom pharoahs, whereas the pyramids date from the Old Kingdom.

 

[Ezechiel]

So it's better to keep an open mind about these structures than to believe some hypotheses that can't be proven. Forget about how they moved those big stones... or even cut them with optical precision.. what's the damn thing for? A monument? Then why all the crazy and precise chambers and passageways and shafts inside? It's too oddly complicated to be a tomb or monument.

Bingo !

The human brain needs immediate answers to plug gaping holes that he can't resolve. That's how absolutist religions are built.

 

[Trajanus]

Then why all the crazy and precise chambers and passageways and shafts inside?

Maybe to confuse and mislead tomb robbers?

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

Maybe to confuse and mislead tomb robbers?

But there was nothing in there to rob. All the passage ways, and the original entrance were sealed with large granite plugs, which were intact. And the relieving chambers above the King's chamber wouldn't confuse a robber, since they were sealed off. And you can't fit your body through a lot of the passageways. And then we have the vertical shafts and the "well". They seem to serve no purpose. Not for a tomb or monument, anyway.

Also, the so-called sarcophagus was too large to fit though the passageway leading to the chamber, and no lid was ever found.

More "useless features" (quoted from Wikipedia):

The Great Pyramid is the only pyramid known to contain both ascending and descending passages.

The largest granite stones in the pyramid, found in the "King's" chamber, weigh 25 to 80 tonnes and were transported more than 500 miles away from Aswan.

The Grand Gallery itself features a corbel haloed design and several cut "sockets" spaced at regular intervals along the length of each side of its raised base with a "trench" running along its center length at floor level. What purpose these sockets served is unknown.

The Queens Chamber has a pair of shafts similar to those in the King's Chamber, which were explored using a robot, Upuaut 2, created by the German engineer Rudolf Gantenbrink. In 1992, Upuaut 2 discovered that these shafts were blocked by limestone "doors" with two eroded copper handles. The National Geographic Society filmed the drilling of a small hole in the southern door, only to find another larger door behind it. The northern passage, which was harder to navigate due to twists and turns, was also found to be blocked by a door.

Yeah, all that work, and they never put a body in it, or painted any ornaments on the walls?

 

[dorkbot]

So, now we are expected to believe that throughout the entire military industrial complex we have tens upon tens of thousands of engineers, scientists, and military personal and not *ONE* not a single one ever let leak even the tiniest tale?

I'll play along. While there are many stories of people who saw something sitting in a hanger, saw some photographs or documents, worked on a study, etc. there seems to be a real scarcity of people claiming that they were trained as a tech to do maintenance on the ARV-UFO-Type 4 or that spent 6 years piloting the EBEBUS-11.

In fact, Fouche's is probably the closest to this kind of story that I can think of. I believe Lazar just claimed to have studied alien built craft. See if you can think of anyone who has made specific claims that they were in any way involved with the design, manufacture, maintenance, support or operation of human built ufos of the anti-gravity sort beyond some hypothetical paper study of novel propulsion methods.

To argue that even some high-performance ufos of classical description are homegrown tech you have to accept dozens or hundreds of secret breakthroughs in scientific theory, a small army of scientists, engineers, factory workers, technicians, flight crews and a multitude of support staff maintaining perfect secrecy for half a century. Not only have they maintained perfect secrecy, they've operated these craft for decades, making thousands to hundreds of thousands of global flights with a virtually flawless flight safety record. No enemy or competitive country has ever succeeded in capturing or destroying such a craft or even producing official good surveillance photos or data. When the Soviet Union bagged a U2 they put it on a table and called a press conference. Oddly, in the past 60 years no nation has ever said, "Here are some spy photos of our enemy's secret ufo fleet."

It's easy to prove that many people in corporations and governments around the world have seriously studied the ufo question, studied novel propulsion and gravity control, built disc-shaped conventionally powered craft and have been intimately involved in the control and dissemination of ufo related information. Where are the claims from anyone involved whatsoever in the design, manufacture and operation of these things? Who has claimed to directly wrench them?

Cash-Landrum is certainly a fascinating case. In the UFO Hunters episode that addressed it, I believe it was determined that the 23 helicopters were the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (The Night Stalkers). In that show an anecdote is provided wherein a Night Stalker is approached at an airshow or something and asked about the incident. He off-handedly remarks that they were escorting a WASP-2. I found that to be a fascinating bit of trivia because it refers to a specific craft. There really wasn't a WASP-1 but there was a WASP. It is a known quantity and is seen here:

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It was built by Williams International. The WASP-2 is an unknown quantity, apparently flying over Betty Cash's car in 1980 yet still remains classified if it exists. The name implies that it too was built by Williams International. Just the fact that the guy pulls such a specific name out of his hat and that the closest known relation to a WASP-2 is an exotic little VTOL craft strikes me as quite intriguing.

To this day I have never seen any mention of a WASP-2 elsewhere.

 

[Trajanus]

To argue that even some high-performance ufos of classical description are homegrown tech you have to accept dozens or hundreds of secret breakthroughs in scientific theory, a small army of scientists, engineers, factory workers, technicians, flight crews and a multitude of support staff

The Manhatten project involved much of the above.

maintaining perfect secrecy for half a century.

ULTRA was kept secret for 30 years even after there was no longer any pressing need i.e. after the war.

Not only have they maintained perfect secrecy, they've operated these craft for decades, making thousands to hundreds of thousands of global flights with a virtually flawless flight safety record. No enemy or competitive country has ever succeeded in capturing or destroying such a craft

Could some crash retrieval cases pertain to them?

or even producing official good surveillance photos or data. When the Soviet Union bagged a U2 they put it on a table and called a press conference. Oddly, in the past 60 years no nation has ever said, "Here are some spy photos of our enemy's secret ufo fleet."

They might want to keep it secret hoping to duplicate it themselves and therefore maybe surprise us.

Cash-Landrum is certainly a fascinating case. In the UFO Hunters episode that addressed it, I believe it was determined that the 23 helicopters were the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment (The Night Stalkers

So they weren't an illusion put into Cash's head by ETs.

It was built by Williams International. The WASP-2 is an unknown quantity, apparently flying over Betty Cash's car in 1980 yet still remains classified if it exists. The name implies that it too was built by Williams International. Just the fact that the guy pulls such a specific name out of his hat and that the closest known relation to a WASP-2 is an exotic little VTOL craft strikes me as quite intriguing.

I doubt he was being ingenuous. They have all kinds of code terms.

 

[Simonemendez]

I believe Bob Lazar. I could go on about how impressed I am with his sincerity, and himself. But I would like to counter the critisism some, such as Stanton Friedman, have made about Bob's vanishing records. From my own experience, re the military, important records vanish. I also chatted about that with another Air Force Veteran (Senior Enlisted) who concurred. When Bob took his friends Gene Huff and John Lear, out to witness, where and ---when--- he told them that these craft would be displaying, he was right on.
In an entirely different thread of mine, I sounded like I was making fun of the idea that "the evil federal government is withholding free energy from us", but actually, ---someone(s)--- truely are, I believe, withholding SOME kind of exotic energy from us. Due to compartmentalization, it is hard to tell. Just today, I was listening to a talk show on my Public Radio, going on about continually surfacing shocking revelations about just how much control that the privatized 'Blackwater' has had, in not only conducting, but inventing, intelligence operations in Iraq, that the CIA and US Army would never be allowed by Congress, to be behind. So that, in regards to 'ufo'-energy coverup'y stuff, Whosever hands it's in, is NOT accountable, therefore innaccessible, to you and I.