Man Made Clouds

[Randall]

I have to concede that if the spaying of "chemtrails" started before I was born: then my "normal" (for lack of a better word) would include "chemtrails".
What I am left thinking is that IF "chemtrails" are being sprayed, then the "anti-chemtrail" movement better start to get its act together, and stop moving goal posts. What I am trying to say is that the more they (chemtrails) are associated with for example a NWO, mind control, population control, space brothers, UFO's and shapeshifting (rightly or wrongly) the less likely people (especially scientists) are to take any genuine underlying evidence seriously.

I have to say that Pixelsmith has been consistant in saying that they are to do with "geo-enginearing" but I have seen people try to link every conspiracy and phenomena imaginable to "chemtrails"resulting in me being extremely sceptical about the issue.

Excellent points. We don't have sufficient information to determine what exactly is going on. All we know is that cloud cover is being generated as a direct result of large jets leaving some sort of vapor trail. But shouldn't that be good enough to start questioning just how good that is for our environment? It also has a direct impact on our quality of living. Why should we have to put up with jets spewing all this crap into the air above our heads on an otherwise beautiful sunny day?

So instead of getting on the government's case about alien conspiracies, just get on their case about these emissions in order to get some definitive answers. By definitive answers I don't mean the standard rhetoric about how contrails are formed. We already know that. Instead what we need to see is that when these emissions are observed, we get the following information:

• Who owns and operates the aircraft involved?
• What was it's registration number, make and model?
• What was the stated purpose of its flight?
• Over what location was it flying when the emissions were observed?
• At what altitude was it flying when the emissions were observed?
• Is there an admission that it was depositing something into the atmosphere other than engine exhaust?
• If so, what was it and what was it for?
• If not, what specific model of engines were on it?
• Were the engines modified in any way to burn non-standard jet fuel?
• What was the composition of the fuel being burned?
• How does that fuel/engine combination differ from those in the past?
• Does the information above match samples and observations taken?
• If not, how are the discrepancies reconciled?

The questions above are the kinds of questions we need to be asking first. Not questions like, "Who is behind the reptilian population control conspiracy?" If anything, these conspiracy type questions have the effect of derailing serious investigation into exactly what these jet emissions are. My personal theory is that apart from those aircraft that are performing known weather modification missions or experiments, we're seeing the byproducts of different kinds of jet fuel being burned in order to save the airline companies money. Apparently some of these biofuels are actually being tested to reduce contrail emissions. See the following articles:

Aviation biofuel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jet Biofuel Enlisted For Contrail Control​

 

[Han]

I had not thought about a different type of fuel as a factor before. very interesting.

Honestly I am still satisfied in my own mind and understanding of contrails that even "persistent" contrails/chemtrails can be explained by conventional means, but I am afraid that I am not eloquent enough to explain how to some one else. My best attempt would be to write that a "chemtrail" is similar to salad dressing.

It would be wrong of me to say that I have no concerns over the growth of air traffic and its environmental impact, and judging by the way "we" treat the earth and sea I would not be suprised to learn that irreversible damage is being done to the "air".

Finally I will admit that if unlike a lot of other "fringe" subjects "chemtrails" make people pay attention to the "environment" then that can only be a good thing, however I do have concerns about people "thinking" themselves sick (in my opinion if you think something will harm you it will).

 

[Stagger Lee]

Ufology has a good point, regarding the asking of real questions as not to derail serious investigation. I made a similiar point in the 911 thread- that a serious investigation into WTC 7 can't happen as long as it's being lumped in with other conspiracy theories.

 

[flipper]

RE: Real planes don't shapeshift - UFO fake planes do video:

I am very far from a video expert but the "shape shifting" effect can easily be explained by "interlacing" of the video frames, especially when you consider that: as the plane was flying it had to have been traveling at "high speed" (relative to the camera).

The reason why I liked Rod's videos so much is that he took so much time to show how certain reflections could not be from the sun. He put the plane sometimes in contrast to show certain details. The truth is that everything you see on video could be fake. My conclusion about what he was doing was that he was looking for truth.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR POLITENESS
I have no proof that any of my conclusions are correct. It is just the way I have put together what I have seen. Since we have no proof, and no one is talking, how does anyone know that what they are seeing is a plane?
I was out walking and I looked at the sky and thought, it IS blue just like when I was a child. Then I realized that I was wearing my sun glasses. Therefore my question is this. Since we all live under the same sky, WHO WOULD MAKE IT NOT BLUE?
Many would argue that it only because jets using less fuel and producing more vapor. There is nothing here but confusion:
How to Debunk Chemtrails - Contrail Science » Contrail Science

 

[Randall]

... How to Debunk Chemtrails - Contrail Science » Contrail Science

I checked the link above, and although there are some good points to consider, it doesn't do anything to "debunk chemtrails". Pictures of persistent vapor trails from the early days of aviation only show that old photos of old airplanes seem to indicate a similar phenomena from some old airplanes during the early days of aviation. It doesn't tell us exactly what the vapor trails in those photos are composed of, or exactly what the vapor trails we're concerned about today are. They do however reaffirm that vapor trails are associated with aircraft. So once again, the evidence we need to properly settle the issue needs to come from the questions in my last post, not simplistic denials and irrelevant evidence from skeptics.

 

[boomerang]

I've been skeptical about chemtrails as more than contrails under special weather conditions. But I must say pixel's series of photos do appear as abnormal. My overriding question about chemtrails is why they are not (?) reported by commercial pilots. These are the people who spend half of their time in the stratosphere and know it very well.

But, in light of these excellent pics, I will place chemtrails in my gray box and do a little more looking up in the future.

 

[pixelsmith]

I know a commercial pilot. He said he would be fired or grounded if he ever publicly mentioned seeing a UFO or a "chemtrail" plane or as he and his buddies call them "sky spiders".

 

[pixelsmith]

I've been skeptical about chemtrails as more than contrails under special weather conditions. But I must say pixel's series of photos do appear as abnormal. My overriding question about chemtrails is why they are not (?) reported by commercial pilots. These are the people who spend half of their time in the stratosphere and know it very well.

But, in light of these excellent pics, I will place chemtrails in my gray box and do a little more looking up in the future.

The series of photos I took consist of 408 images over a 2 hour time span. When you see all of them in sequence it is pretty interesting. It was difficult to select the ones I did because they ALL tie the evolution of the trail expansion together.

 

[Randall]

But, in light of these excellent pics, I will place chemtrails in my gray box and do a little more looking up in the future.

The danger in placing the subject of chemtrails into the "gray box" is because it removes it from the reality of the phenomenon. There is no question that the phenomenon is real. The issue is what exactly are these vapor trails composed of and what impact are they having on our environment and quality of life? Smog is a "normal" byproduct of automobiles. Does that mean that they never should have instituted regulations to reduce emissions? These are the real questions and the whole conspiracy angle is just a diversion. Whether or not there is a conspiracy involved will be discovered by answering serious minded questions with valid scientific evidence. This isn't like UFOs where we can't get the evidence we need. It's right in front of our faces coming from our own aircraft. So where is that information? Has nobody done it? Why not?

"Someday weather researchers may be able to use jets on purpose to change our weather."
NBC News 1980 - Thirty fewer days of sunshine then. Now it's 30 years later.
Consider the expansion of jet aviation since then.​

It's painfully obvious that we've got a lot of unnatural cloud cover.
Does unnatural = normal? I don't think so.
Skeptics seem to think it does.​

 

[pixelsmith]

Yup these photos are all normal contrails... move along people...

 

[pixelsmith]

This one is interesting and some would say has possible HAARP influences.. remember ALL the clouds in this shot are from contrails 2 hours old or less. This is an in-camera HDR shot, the camera takes 3 quick shots of different exposures and combines the best elements of each one into a single image. I took a few like this to study the depth that it brings.

 

[Han]

Dear pixel I have in the past used a piece of free sofware called irfanview view*, it is similar to the old animation shop, you can make a quick "animation" and record the output as a video. it is very simple to use, you basically add the pictures to a list and choose how long each frame is shown for, I would be very interested to see the result**.



*IrfanView - Official Homepage - one of the most popular viewers worldwide
**when and if you have time

 

[Han]

The reason why I liked Rod's videos so much is that he took so much time to show how certain reflections could not be from the sun. He put the plane sometimes in contrast to show certain details. The truth is that everything you see on video could be fake. My conclusion about what he was doing was that he was looking for truth.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR POLITENESS
I have no proof that any of my conclusions are correct. It is just the way I have put together what I have seen. Since we have no proof, and no one is talking, how does anyone know that what they are seeing is a plane?
I was out walking and I looked at the sky and thought, it IS blue just like when I was a child. Then I realized that I was wearing my sun glasses. Therefore my question is this. Since we all live under the same sky, WHO WOULD MAKE IT NOT BLUE?
Many would argue that it only because jets using less fuel and producing more vapor. There is nothing here but confusion:
How to Debunk Chemtrails - Contrail Science » Contrail Science

You are correct about the confusion.

As for being polite, the way I see it we are all believers in some way.
The reason that I know about video interlacing is because of "rods" which I was totally taken in by, it was only when I finally saw it being explained that it made sense. I also was once convinced I had seen something very out of the ordinary, but it turned out to be saturn! what I am saying is that I am aware of my fallibility, and as a result I try to manage what I will allow my self to believe in, for example I would not like to spend a night in a "haunted" house even though I do not "believe" in "ghosts". I am an instinctive person and would probably "see" something" as I have a very active imagination.
This is part of the reason I do not want to "believe" in "chemtrails" because at the end of the day IF it is a reality, I don't feel like there is much I can do about it, and however defeatist it sounds, I prefere to "hope" that its not rather than "worry" about them.
I also feel that there many "forces" at work to decieve and confuse people and "chemtrails" would be an obvious choice as a vehicle to do so, mainly because most people in the developed world, will be able to "witness" them: because there are more and more planes in the sky. Sadly "paranoia" is big business these days e.g. alex jones, and I am convinced that some people are making a living from promoting "chemtrails" and those people could not care less about who gets hurt along the way, as long as they get payed. For me those who cause "mental" suffering to others are just as guilty as those who cause "physical" suffering, and should be held accountable in some way, but ultimately it is the "individual" who is responsible for what they believe.
Knowing this allows me to hold many contradictory beliefs, that suit my individual interests and needs, but would probably make me seem a total hypocrite.

 

[pixelsmith]

Dear pixel I have in the past used a piece of free sofware called irfanview view*, it is similar to the old animation shop, you can make a quick "animation" and record the output as a video. it is very simple to use, you basically add the pictures to a list and choose how long each frame is shown for, I would be very interested to see the result**.



*IrfanView - Official Homepage - one of the most popular viewers worldwide
**when and if you have time

that would be cool. i was wandering around between my front and backyard as i took the photos so i am not sure it would work.
uh oh... this software would indicate you are a windows user... I am so sorry, I did not know... there are many support groups that can maybe help you.

 

[Han]

that would be cool. i was wandering around between my front and backyard as i took the photos so i am not sure it would work.
uh oh... this software would indicate you are a windows user... I am so sorry, I did not know... there are many support groups that can maybe help you.

Lol yes I am a windows (vista) user, and my PC is some what dated. But I will not get a new one till it gives up! if you think that is funny then you should see my cell phone! I bought it specifically because it was the cheapest and did not have a camera! anyway my PC does all the things I need it to, and the longer I wait the more I will get for my money, I am old enough to remember being exited about having a 20 meg hard disk and 2 megs of ram! it is amazing to think how much more you get for your money these days.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

I find it strange that there has been only one comment on this series of photos. Does everyone really think this is normal?

Just seen the and no, I do not think this is normal. To me, it looks plainly obvious there were no natural clouds in your phots and anyone arriving at the latter end of your taking photos could be forgiven for thinking they were looking at just normal thin, wispy clouds.

We all know what kind of air traffic our respective home areas are subject too and I am sure you are aware of whether this is 'normal' or not.

It's fact that clouds can be seeded and particulates added to the sky for weather modification. My only stumbling block on a conspiracy front would be that it's hard to imagine enough privately owned/black budget large jets could be criss-crossing the skies of the US to any large enough degree without using literally hundreds of costly jets. Where are these flights originating from? Are the planes supposedly modified to spray something held as cargo or is it in the fuel?
Could large airlines have been given some incentive to use a certain doped fuel?

I've no problems that it can be done but I'm not sure on the logistics or reasons behind it; the people involved live where we live so why would they knowingly take part in something potentially so nefarious?

 

[Goggs Mackay]

Lol yes I am a windows (vista) user, and my PC is some what dated. But I will not get a new one till it gives up! if you think that is funny then you should see my cell phone! I bought it specifically because it was the cheapest and did not have a camera! anyway my PC does all the things I need it to, and the longer I wait the more I will get for my money, I am old enough to remember being exited about having a 20 meg hard disk and 2 megs of ram! it is amazing to think how much more you get for your money these days.

Shit Han, I must be much older than you, or I've used computers longer; I remember owning a 16k ZX Spectrum with a 32K RAM-pack you plugged in the back! And I still rate some of the games! 'Chucky-Egg' anyone?

 

[Han]

Shit Han, I must be much older than you, or I've used computers longer; I remember owning a 16k ZX Spectrum with a 32K RAM-pack you plugged in the back! And I still rate some of the games! 'Chucky-Egg' anyone?

I was talking about my first PC I am also ZX spectrum era (I did not own one but my best friend did) our favourite game was "Gauntlet".

 

[flipper]

You are correct about the confusion.

As for being polite, the way I see it we are all believers in some way.
The reason that I know about video interlacing is because of "rods" which I was totally taken in by, it was only when I finally saw it being explained that it made sense. I also was once convinced I had seen something very out of the ordinary, but it turned out to be saturn! what I am saying is that I am aware of my fallibility, and as a result I try to manage what I will allow my self to believe in, for example I would not like to spend a night in a "haunted" house even though I do not "believe" in "ghosts". I am an instinctive person and would probably "see" something" as I have a very active imagination.
This is part of the reason I do not want to "believe" in "chemtrails" because at the end of the day IF it is a reality, I don't feel like there is much I can do about it, and however defeatist it sounds, I prefere to "hope" that its not rather than "worry" about them.
I also feel that there many "forces" at work to decieve and confuse people and "chemtrails" would be an obvious choice as a vehicle to do so, mainly because most people in the developed world, will be able to "witness" them: because there are more and more planes in the sky. Sadly "paranoia" is big business these days e.g. alex jones, and I am convinced that some people are making a living from promoting "chemtrails" and those people could not care less about who gets hurt along the way, as long as they get payed. For me those who cause "mental" suffering to others are just as guilty as those who cause "physical" suffering, and should be held accountable in some way, but ultimately it is the "individual" who is responsible for what they believe.
Knowing this allows me to hold many contradictory beliefs, that suit my individual interests and needs, but would probably make me seem a total hypocrite.

Cognitive Dissonance is a wise policy in dealing with phenomena we do not understand. As Mike Clelland says in regards to the paranormal. We are like a cat chasing a string. We see the string but we do not see the hand behind the string.

Nevertheless I have made some conclusions. The first is that, except for the psychopaths, people would get alone. Since I can not share my books with you I would invite you to listen to, if you are interested, an interview with Charles Eisenstein. In the interview economic survival of the fittest is discussed.
Red Ice Radio - Charles Eisenstein - Hour 1 - Sacred Economics
The second conclusion is that their some very dart forces at work. The United States invades a country the people of that country turn against the U.S. Now if I know that then they know that. Peter Dale Scott talks about how sometimes the CIA works against even its own interest because people in a few key positions have another agenda. This beyond making money from war in my opinion. It is war for wars sake.
Launching the U.S. Terror War: the CIA, 9/11, Afghanistan, and Central Asia　　米国テロ戦争の開始ーー中央情報局、9.11、アフガニスタン、中央アジア :: JapanFocus
The final point comes from an interview with Chris on Radio Misterioso. In this interview Chris says that when the United States is not at war the number of cattle mutilations goes up. He believes it is connected to the gods demanding sacrifice. Since we all live under the sky who would make it not blue.
Radio Misterioso | In-depth conversations on the paranormal alternating with weird music. Live on Sundays 8-10 PM PST @ killradio.org

 

[pixelsmith]

Just seen the and no, I do not think this is normal. To me, it looks plainly obvious there were no natural clouds in your phots and anyone arriving at the latter end of your taking photos could be forgiven for thinking they were looking at just normal thin, wispy clouds.

We all know what kind of air traffic our respective home areas are subject too and I am sure you are aware of whether this is 'normal' or not.

It's fact that clouds can be seeded and particulates added to the sky for weather modification. My only stumbling block on a conspiracy front would be that it's hard to imagine enough privately owned/black budget large jets could be criss-crossing the skies of the US to any large enough degree without using literally hundreds of costly jets. Where are these flights originating from? Are the planes supposedly modified to spray something held as cargo or is it in the fuel?
Could large airlines have been given some incentive to use a certain doped fuel?

I've no problems that it can be done but I'm not sure on the logistics or reasons behind it; the people involved live where we live so why would they knowingly take part in something potentially so nefarious?

There are many methods of delivery, via flare type things attached to the wings, internal tanks and spray jets on large specialized aircraft, mixing the product in passenger jet fuel, specialized aircraft delivering product at high altitudes and normal passenger aircraft flying thru the product to activate it, etc etc.. just do a patent search for weather modification stuff and you will find 100s of patents.
I believe Monsanto has its fingers in this weather mod stuff, they sell drought resistant seeds, aluminum resistant seeds, etc.. Lots of money is also made on crop future markets.. place your bets, wipe out the crops with rain and bingo... millions of dollars in their pockets to pay for the weather mods.