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It increases it's odds of likelyhood as an explanation versus say discovering a vast underground city full of magical fairies.



If you think all theories are equally viable you're either dedicated to an imposed false neutrality or biased against some theories (ETH most prominantly) and less biased against others.

Now don't get me wrong, by no means am I saying the ETH is the ONLY viable theory nor am I saying ALL UFOs must be ET. All theories are to be considered but there's a distinct difference between consideration and likelyhood and it is my opinion that compared to more exotic theories like time travellers and extra-dimensional entities, the ETH is simply more realistic in the majority of cases.


It makes the most sense to us...but does that really mean anything? We have a greater understanding for astronomy and the universe that surrounds us than we do for string theory but does it really make ETH more likely? I personally don't think so. 200 years ago seeing UFOs in the sky was a sign of the Gods...were we right then? I believe the closely-held believe that ETH is the most probable theory is due to intellectual contamination through cultural and societal avenues for a good part of the 20th and 21st centuries.
 
It makes the most sense to us...but does that really mean anything?

Yes, yes it does. At it's core the ETH isn't about opinion, it's about math. How many planets, how much time, odds, statistics, etc, etc. Math is something.

What are the other theories based on? Legends? Imaginings? Dreams? Drug trips? Theoretical physics? Not good enough.

I can see other planets. I can see distant stars. Show me time travel. Show me another dimension. Show me anything concrete that relates to any of the other theories. You can't. The ETH at least has something behind it, the other theories have nothing. Not that that makes it right of course but to pretend that it's on par with the others or dismiss it due to "cultural contamination" is just looking for excuses to ignore it in my opinion.
 
At it's core the ETH isn't about opinion, it's about math...Show me time travel. Show me another dimension. Show me anything concrete that relates to any of the other theories. You can't.
OK, fair enough: show me an atom. Show me an anomalon. Show me a mathematical equation the proves human consciousness.
Show me anything concrete that relates to any of the other theories. You can't.
Yes, you are right, "you can't."
 
What are the other theories based on? Legends? Imaginings? Dreams? Drug trips? Theoretical physics? Not good enough.


I think you're being unfair here...portions of the ETH are also due the reasons above minus theoretical physics of course.

---------- Post added at 09:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:22 PM ----------

Yes, yes it does. At it's core the ETH isn't about opinion, it's about math. How many planets, how much time, odds, statistics, etc, etc. Math is something.


Theoretical physics isn't about math? I really don't think we can jump to conclusions about the probability of intelligent life on other planets when there is controversy as to whether we have even found evidence on the equivalent to galactic pond scum.

---------- Post added at 09:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 PM ----------

I can see other planets. I can see distant stars. Show me time travel. Show me another dimension. Show me anything concrete that relates to any of the other theories. You can't. The ETH at least has something behind it, the other theories have nothing. Not that that makes it right of course but to pretend that it's on par with the others or dismiss it due to "cultural contamination" is just looking for excuses to ignore it in my opinion.


As i mentioned previously, the inability for me to produce evidence for string theory doesn't mean alternate dimensions don't exist. We don't have the intellect or the means to produce evidence for this yet, but it is entirely possible. For hundreds of years humans attributed UFOs to god(s), and this belief was based off various religious scriptures that formed the cultures of the time.

Look, I'm not ignoring ETH but to say our culture has done nothing to put the "ET" idea in the back of our noggins since we were babes is to ignore what is true.
 
OK, fair enough: show me an atom.

As in "prove to me atoms exist"? You've seen pictures of atomic explosions, right? There you go. If you need more proof of atomic reality you can always visit Chernobyl but I wouldn't recommend it.

I really don't think we can jump to conclusions about the probability of intelligent life on other planets when there is controversy as to whether we have even found evidence on the equivalent to galactic pond scum.

It's not a jump, it's a step. It's a BIG step but it's still a step. Evidence continues to mount. I fully expect to see the image of an actual earth-like planet in another solar system within my lifetime. 50 years ago people would have balked at that statement. Suggest it to any random person today however and you'll probably get a response like "Yeah... I can see that happening."

Look, I'm not ignoring ETH but to say our culture has done nothing to put the "ET" idea in the back of our noggins since we were babes is to ignore what is true.

I'm not ignoring the influence of sci-fi on people's expectations. But in the overall argument as to the existence/non-existence of ET life it's not really relevant. Whether or not we think ET looks like... well, ET and travels around in a metal dredel or not it has no impact on the existence of actual ETs or any craft they travel in (if they exist).
 
The simplest ETH scenario is a projection of us in the relative near future where we have acquired the ability to travel to another star.

To propose that this scenario only will happen on planet earth and has never happened in the past elsewhere is infinitely pretentious especially now that we know that planetary systems are common.

The previous statement happens to be an assault on fundamentalist religious ideology where life begins on earth and any life beyond is satanic.

There is a phenomenon and I think that it is unpretentious to link it to a simple ETH scenario. Remember the KISS principle (keep it simple stupid lol).
 
As in "prove to me atoms exist"? You've seen pictures of atomic explosions, right? There you go. If you need more proof of atomic reality you can always visit Chernobyl but I wouldn't recommend it.

Still theoretical

---------- Post added at 03:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:34 PM ----------

It's not a jump, it's a step. It's a BIG step but it's still a step. Evidence continues to mount. I fully expect to see the image of an actual earth-like planet in another solar system within my lifetime. 50 years ago people would have balked at that statement. Suggest it to any random person today however and you'll probably get a response like "Yeah... I can see that happening."

Yes, we are discovering more planets that we think may serve the genesis of life...but we still haven't found any life. What a random person on the street says doesn't matter, they also know more about Charlie Sheen than the civil war in Libya...its all about the media baby. 50 years ago most theoretical physicists would've laughed at the idea of alternate dimensions but not anymore.

My point is simple, yes we know more to back up the ETH hypothesis, but we haven't found any evidence to indicate where UFOs are from. Just because we have more knowledge to backup one particular theory in a field with ZERO evidence, doesn't mean one is more likely than the other....IMO.

---------- Post added at 03:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:43 PM ----------

The simplest ETH scenario is a projection of us in the relative near future where we have acquired the ability to travel to another star.


Seriously? We haven't been to the moon in how long? Oh but wait, now NASA wants to go to asteroids! WOOHOO!

---------- Post added at 03:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:44 PM ----------

To propose that this scenario only will happen on planet earth and has never happened in the past elsewhere is infinitely pretentious especially now that we know that planetary systems are common.

What example do we have to serve us besides planet earth? Planetary systems sure, but show me one with life. This Goldi-Locks business is cool, but we aren't touching those planets when any of us are alive.

---------- Post added at 03:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:46 PM ----------

Remember the KISS principle (keep it simple stupid lol).


Ha I would love to, but this isn't simple. I appreciate how we have more background knowledge to support the ETH hypothesis but there are a couple things which make the KISS principle suck for explaining UFOs and ETH because this ain't no simple matter folks.

One, if this is ETH then how do we explain high strangeness? Does bigfoot come on a flying saucer? Are ghosts also aliens?

Two, we still haven't found even a bacterial life form (mars asteroids are controversial, could be bacteria from earth).

Three, we can't even comprehend what our brains are capable of, this could all be a collective conscious phenomenon for all I know. This could be some time of collective hallucination, who knows.

Four, this stuff isn't simple! By simplifying this UFO phenomena we are doing a disservice to the field.

With that said it looks like we will have to agree to disagree...
 
Thank you. But we're not an educational institution, so we will sometimes bring on guests who have interesting stories to tell.

[spits coffee directly onto the monitor] What!? [uncontrolled coughing and blinking]

Some of the observed objects in the sky, displaying behaviors inconsistent with current known physical laws, indicate that some civilization has found space/time shortcuts where distance becomes a non-issue.

On what hypothesis is closer to the truth ... let me make up a new one.

UFOs and surrounding phenomena are a symptom of the interaction between the collective unconscious of the human species and the consciousness of the Earth (such as it is) represented by the magnetosphere, Van-Allen Belts, and so forth and so on, yada-yada-yada. Mother Earth is trying to tell us its time to leave home and mooch somewhere else by infusing our consensus reality with the possibilities of space-faring civilizations and aliens we can go fight.
 
Seriously? We haven't been to the moon in how long? Oh but wait, now NASA wants to go to asteroids! WOOHOO!

WOW, the United States of America is the center of the universe ?! Demographics, economics and stats on university graduations indicate that China should take the space exploration lead in a very short time.

What example do we have to serve us besides planet earth? Planetary systems sure, but show me one with life. This Goldi-Locks business is cool, but we aren't touching those planets when any of us are alive.

I don't need to show you one with life, you need to educate me on why this planet is special enough to be the only one with life. (without using scripture from the bible of course).
 
Ha I would love to, but this isn't simple. I appreciate how we have more background knowledge to support the ETH hypothesis but there are a couple things which make the KISS principle suck for explaining UFOs and ETH because this ain't no simple matter folks.

I agree, it is an extremely complex subject. By keeping it simple I mean limit your attention to the part of the phenomenon that you may have a slim chance to decode.

Keeping a focus on physical structured craft is a good starting point. Stanton Friedman understands this even though he's open to multi-dimensional manifestations as part of the issue. 'Flying saucers, we don't make them... somebody is'. ETH is the way to start.

Here's what happened to the snake that tried to swallow a 6 foot alligator lol
mn_gator_python_19y45.jpg
 
Keeping a focus on physical structured craft is a good starting point. Stanton Friedman understands this even though he's open to multi-dimensional manifestations as part of the issue. 'Flying saucers, we don't make them... somebody is'. ETH is the way to start.

It's largely a question of semantics. And what are the dimensional non-nuts and bolts people thinking? That there aren't planets in this other dimension? That homeless disembodied spirits flit about until they can poke their heads in over here and masquerade as giant UFOs? Isn't it more likely that this other dimension has suns, planets, and a physicality all its own? But in all reality, isn't all this a bit like a room full of blind people arguing about what the color of the ceiling might be?
 
It's largely a question of semantics. And what are the dimensional non-nuts and bolts people thinking? That there aren't planets in this other dimension? That homeless disembodied spirits flit about until they can poke their heads in over here and masquerade as giant UFOs? Isn't it more likely that this other dimension has suns, planets, and a physicality all its own?

In order: Maybe not, perhaps and not necessarily. And that is why the ETH is the stronger theory, we at least know things about how our universe functions and where and how life is likely to form. We know NOTHING about other dimensions up to and including whether or not they even exist. Something and nothing aren't equal and never will be.
 
Yes, yes it does. At it's core the ETH isn't about opinion, it's about math. How many planets, how much time, odds, statistics, etc, etc. Math is something.
Doesn't the same math which argues for the existence of intelligent life also argue against such life visiting here (the equivalent of finding a specific grain of sand on a beach!), certainly of multiple species (greys, reptilians, nordics, etc.) dropping by, and surely the likelihood of every one of those species being bipedal and, essentially, human in form and general configuration, traveling in craft which are simple iterations of ours (and why the need for lights at night)?

The simple truth of it is we have absolutely no idea what this phenomenon is and we are no closer to identifying it than we were 2500 years ago. I suspect it has a much more fanciful, unexpected and closer-to-home solution than anything we have yet imagined. At this point, every "hypothesis" is little more than a flight of fancy and a guess. There is NO credible evidence to support any particular conjecture as to either the origin or the motivation of whatever it is people sometimes claim to observe and experience. Fairies are as good a guess as extraterrestrials at this point...both unlikely but not entirely impossible until we KNOW what the truth is. And even that assumes we are meant to someday know!
 
Doesn't the same math which argues for the existence of intelligent life also argue against such life visiting here (the equivalent of finding a specific grain of sand on a beach!), certainly of multiple species (greys, reptilians, nordics, etc.) dropping by, and surely the likelihood of every one of those species being bipedal and, essentially, human in form and general configuration, traveling in craft which are simple iterations of ours (and why the need for lights at night)?

Not really. Once you factor in planetary systems billions of years older than our own, the odds begin to drop considerably. Not down to 1:1 of course but certainly well out of the impossible range into the improbable/unlikely range. And of course as more time passes and we discover more planets those odds drop further and further down. It's probably a combination of ignorance and hubris that makes those intial estimates as high as they are.
 
The simple truth of it is we have absolutely no idea what this phenomenon is and we are no closer to identifying it than we were 2500 years ago.

That's a broad stroke if I ever saw one. We've got quantum improvements over the control over our airspace in the last 100 years and we're at the stage where we can take a serious look into the good cases.

Get the radar track for the following case, check the flight coms below. Interview the witnesses (pilot, co-pilots....) I would definitely link this event to a simple ETH scenario. Get to the bottom of this through official investigation and you'll get your answer.

1986: Japan Airline flight 1628 747 cargo. Reykjavik to Alaska:
6:19 PM local time: The pilot of JL1628 requested traffic information from the ZAN (FAA Air Route Traffic Control Center, Anchorage) Sector 15 controller.

6:26 PM: ZAN contacted the Military Regional Operations Control Center (ROCC), and asked if they were receiving any radar returns near the position of JL1628. The ROCC advised that they were receiving a primary radar return in JL1628's 10 o'clock (left-front) position at 8 miles [13 km.].

6:27 PM: The ROCC contacted ZAN to advise they were no longer receiving any radar returns in the vicinity of JL1628.

6:31 PM: JL1628 advised that the 'plane' was 'quite big,' at which time the ZAN controller approved any course deviations needed to avoid the traffic.

6:32 PM: JL1628 requested and received a descent from FL350 to FL310 (flight level 350 and 310, meaning altitude of 35,000 and 31,000 feet, or 10,500 m. and 9,500 m.). When asked if the traffic was descending also, the pilot stated it was descending 'in formation.'

6:35 PM: JL1628 requested and received a heading change to two one zero (210 degrees, or southwest). The aircraft was now in the vicinity of Fairbanks and ZAN contacted Fairbanks Approach Control asking if they had any radar returns near JL1628's position. The Fairbanks Controller advised they did not.

6:36 PM: JL1628 was issued a 360 degree turn and asked to inform ZAN if the traffic stayed with them.

6:38 PM: The ROCC called ZAN advising they had confirmed a 'flight of two' in JL1628's position. They advised they had some 'other equipment watching this,' and one was a primary target only.

6:39 PM: JL1628 told ZAN they no longer had the traffic in sight.

6:42 PM: The ROCC advised it looked as though the traffic had dropped back and to the right of JL1628, however, they were no longer tracking it.

6:44 PM: JL1628 advised the traffic was now at 9 o'clock (left).

6:45 PM: ZAN issued a 10 degree turn to a northbound United Airlines flight, after pilot concurrence, in an attempt to confirm the traffic.

6:48 PM: JL1628 told ZAN the traffic was now at 7 o'clock (left rear), 8 miles [13 km.].

6:50 PM: The northbound United flight advised they had the Japan Airlines flight in sight, against a light background, and could not see any other traffic.

6:53 PM: JL1628 advised that they no longer had contact with the traffic."


jal6.jpg
jal2.jpg

 
Doesn't the same math which argues for the existence of intelligent life also argue against such life visiting here (the equivalent of finding a specific grain of sand on a beach!), certainly of multiple species (greys, reptilians, nordics, etc.) dropping by, and surely the likelihood of every one of those species being bipedal and, essentially, human in form and general configuration, traveling in craft which are simple iterations of ours (and why the need for lights at night)?

The simple truth of it is we have absolutely no idea what this phenomenon is and we are no closer to identifying it than we were 2500 years ago. I suspect it has a much more fanciful, unexpected and closer-to-home solution than anything we have yet imagined. At this point, every "hypothesis" is little more than a flight of fancy and a guess. There is NO credible evidence to support any particular conjecture as to either the origin or the motivation of whatever it is people sometimes claim to observe and experience. Fairies are as good a guess as extraterrestrials at this point...both unlikely but not entirely impossible until we KNOW what the truth is. And even that assumes we are meant to someday know!


Wow KABAM! Ha, did you just read my mind?

---------- Post added at 10:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 PM ----------

Not really. Once you factor in planetary systems billions of years older than our own, the odds begin to drop considerably. Not down to 1:1 of course but certainly well out of the impossible range into the improbable/unlikely range. And of course as more time passes and we discover more planets those odds drop further and further down. It's probably a combination of ignorance and hubris that makes those intial estimates as high as they are.

CapnG I'm not sure anyone can calculate what our odds really are.

---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 PM ----------

That's a broad stroke if I ever saw one. We've got quantum improvements over the control over our airspace in the last 100 years and we're at the stage where we can take a serious look into the good cases.

Very true, we could use some gun camera shots as well. I always find the lost pilot scenarios fascinating.

This case is interesting but doesn't tell us anything about their origins or what "they" are.
 
It's largely a question of semantics. And what are the dimensional non-nuts and bolts people thinking? That there aren't planets in this other dimension? That homeless disembodied spirits flit about until they can poke their heads in over here and masquerade as giant UFOs? Isn't it more likely that this other dimension has suns, planets, and a physicality all its own? But in all reality, isn't all this a bit like a room full of blind people arguing about what the color of the ceiling might be?
I don't know, ask Ray Charles.
 
Japan Airline flight 1628

To see something like that while piloting an aircraft must have been incredibly terrifying. I've heard the pilot's account several times over the years but not anything from the rest of the crew. Anyone know if the crew's account it available somewhere?
 
This case is interesting but doesn't tell us anything about their origins or what "they" are.

Let's clear some things up:

No known civilization from earth can currently build something of that size
The behavior of the structured craft denotes intelligence, curiosity and control beyond our current capabilities
The origin is unknown.... grab a dart and try to hit around a white smudge lmao

Andromeda_gendler_s60.jpg

Intent of these visits is also unknown.

The real question is: Are intent and origin of these visitors unknowable ? the real answer is: Yes if you don't allocate any ressources to fully catalog and scientifically analyze the attributes of these cases.
 
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