May 28, 2017 — Chris Rutkowski with J. Randall Murphy

[wwkirk]

But that's not really what we see, is it?

We don't see the dots get bigger within the same size grid - meaning the spaces between them get smaller.

We see a totally different sized grid to begin with, with a different number of dots on the bottom row, and the gradient is opposite.

I suggest you raise these concerns to Chris. He's on Facebook under his own name.

 

[marduk]

I suggest you raise these concerns to Chris. He's on Facebook under his own name.

Tried to on his blog, will think about giving it a shot on Facebook.

 

[marduk]

Interesting posts on reddit about this case... I didn't start the thread or weigh in, but I'm not the only one that doesn't think the dots match...

Falcon lake incident possible inconsistency? • r/UFOs

Here's an example of what I think may have made the burns instead... a camping waffle iron.

The size differential could be easily explained by rolling the hot iron across his belly vs just laying it on the shirt - it would also explain the outline around the shirt but not the belly.

They came in various shapes and sizes, I'm sure with digging one could probably find one that matched the shirt identically. And that's probably the best reference source to find it, not the lesions on the skin - it probably hurt like a SOB when he did it if that's what caused it.

Maybe he burnt himself with the iron accidentally and then made up the story and burned the shirt to sell it.

 

[Linton]

Maybe he burnt himself with the iron accidentally and then made up the story and burned the shirt to sell it.

Hmmm, something about that doesn’t ring right for me as an explanation. Folks from that neck of the woods are also more likely to own a drunken moment like that with pride rather than concoct a crazy story that they’ll likely get mocked for.

On the Reddit thread I found the comment about the pattern on the shirt being on the back of the shirt interesting. Is that the case? I’ve always seen it presented as being the front. If the front is completely burnt away and that patten is on the back, that might make things more believable yet.

 

[marduk]

Hmmm, something about that doesn’t ring right for me as an explanation. Folks from that neck of the woods are also more likely to own a drunken moment like that with pride rather than concoct a crazy story that they’ll likely get mocked for.

On the Reddit thread I found the comment about the pattern on the shirt being on the back of the shirt interesting. Is that the case? I’ve always seen it presented as being the front. If the front is completely burnt away and that patten is on the back, that might make things more believable yet.

I’ll say this was probably my favorite Canadian case...

Until I actually took a good look at the photos after this episode. I was a fan, and now I’m not.

 

[Burnt State]

I’ll say this was probably my favorite Canadian case...

Until I actually took a good look at the photos after this episode. I was a fan, and now I’m not.

Hold up....have you read Rutkowski's book on it?

 

[marduk]

Hold up....have you read Rutkowski's book on it?

Nope, still not out on iBooks or any other easily accessible format. I made the decision to go digital a few years back - I have a very full library and about 10 boxes of books (ufo related and otherwise) clogging up the storage room. I will buy it as soon as that is possible.

I have looked into this one pretty extensively though, and tried to reach out to Chris a couple times about it. And the more I look the less I like this case.

 

[Burnt State]

Nope, still not out on iBooks or any other easily accessible format. I made the decision to go digital a few years back - I have a very full library and about 10 boxes of books (ufo related and otherwise) clogging up the storage room. I will buy it as soon as that is possible.

I have looked into this one pretty extensively though, and tried to reach out to Chris a couple times about it. And the more I look the less I like this case.

Well putting the shirt aside....just for a moment, there are features that can't be denied about the case: the leading ufologist in Canada says it's the best case we got, investigated by Condon, Hynek, Klass, RCMP and our own air force, the melted silver material with radioactive material embedded in it, background radiation levels so high in the area they thought about closing the place down for safety, the quality of the witness who sought no fame and died believing still it was an experimental US craft and then the various details of the craft sketched on the scene, its stainless steel smooth surface with no rivets, glowing light emanating from the interior etc.. I don't see hanging onto the shirt as the big "ba boom" that defeats the case in light of these elements. I would suggest that perhaps the shirt interpretation may be wrong on your part (we've debated this part before) and why go to all the personal lengths to pay for his own check up at the American clinic when there's no movie deal in sight or need to go to these lengths when you don't believe in UFOs as Michalak did. His ongoing strange sickness elements that knocked him down for the count repeatedly.... Something's not adding up in the land of parsimony here for me. Are you suggesting all these elements point to a hoax on behalf of Michalak, a man so sick of media attention the family sent all inquiries to Rutkowski to deal with at one point?

 

[marduk]

Well putting the shirt aside....just for a moment, there are features that can't be denied about the case: the leading ufologist in Canada says it's the best case we got, investigated by Condon, Hynek, Klass, RCMP and our own air force,

That's just an appeal to authority argument, and the RCMP didn't say anything about it except it was mysterious.

the melted silver material with radioactive material embedded in it, background radiation levels so high in the area they thought about closing the place down for safety,

Wasn't that site smack dab in the middle of a uranium hotspot? The government of Manitoba website says it is:
http://www.gov.mb.ca/iem/geo/commodity/files/html/comm_uranium_fig1.pdf

the quality of the witness who sought no fame and died believing still it was an experimental US craft and then the various details of the craft sketched on the scene, its stainless steel smooth surface with no rivets, glowing light emanating from the interior etc.. I don't see hanging onto the shirt as the big "ba boom" that defeats the case in light of these elements.

We have plenty of witnesses that have the same level of anecdotal evidence - some of which is hoaxed.

I would suggest that perhaps the shirt interpretation may be wrong on your part (we've debated this part before) and why go to all the personal lengths to pay for his own check up at the American clinic when there's no movie deal in sight or need to go to these lengths when you don't believe in UFOs as Michalak did. His ongoing strange sickness elements that knocked him down for the count repeatedly.... Something's not adding up in the land of parsimony here for me. Are you suggesting all these elements point to a hoax on behalf of Michalak, a man so sick of media attention the family sent all inquiries to Rutkowski to deal with at one point?

It is very telling that he went to the press before he went to the hospital:

According to the badly burned man, he then walked to his motel, was afraid that he would expose others to radiation if he went in, and instead hung out in the forest outside for a while. Around 4pm, the pain got so bad that he went in and asked for a doctor, only to hear that the nearest doctor was 45 miles away. Insert scathing comment about Socialized Healthcare here.

So he took a bus back home. But before that, like all good UFO witnesses, he called a newspaper, and asked them for a “ride home, but no publicity.”

And I find this bit pretty interesting:

Here’s where the first of very many inconsistencies in his story appears. He, and his supporters, state that he walked back to the motel. On the way he tried to solicit help from a policeman, who either a) ignored him and drove straight past, or b)drove past him, turned around, and upon hearing the story, drove off.

I call this inconsistent because the Royal Canadian Mounted Policeman who supposedly “drove by” Michalak produced a detailed report. In his version of events, Michalak flags him down. The officer asks what is wrong, and Michalak states that the officer ought to stay away because he may be radioactive or contagious or something. The officer noted that although he couldn’t smell alcohol on Michalak, he looked rather drunk, with bloodshot eyes. He also refused to answer direct questions coherently. He showed the Mountie his burned hat, but when the officer asked him why his head was not burned, he refused to answer. He also refused to allow the officer to look at his shirt, which the Mountie had noted was burned. Michalak appeared to have, in the words of the police report, “had taken a black substances, possibly wood ashes, and rubbed it on his chest.” At no time did Michalak allow the officer to get close enough to see whether or not he was really burned, and when he was asked questions like “if touching the spaceship was hot enough to melt your glove, why isn’t your hand burned?” he sullenly refused to answer. He was kind enough to make a sketch of the spaceship for the officer, despite the fact that he claims he made one while actually at the lake. Why didn't he just pull that one out and show it to the Mountie? Just another unanswered, unanswerable, question.

The Iron Skeptic - Stefan Michalak's Ridiculous Story

 

[Burnt State]

That's just an appeal to authority argument, and the RCMP didn't say anything about it except it was mysterious.



Wasn't that site smack dab in the middle of a uranium hotspot? The government of Manitoba website says it is:
http://www.gov.mb.ca/iem/geo/commodity/files/html/comm_uranium_fig1.pdf




We have plenty of witnesses that have the same level of anecdotal evidence - some of which is hoaxed.



It is very telling that he went to the press before he went to the hospital:


And I find this bit pretty interesting:

The Iron Skeptic - Stefan Michalak's Ridiculous Story

Ok I know you listened to the episode and heard what I heard....it's not an appeal to authority so much as a genuine interest in the case by significant parties including one of the biggest debunkers of all time so there is obviously meat on the bone.

Rutkowski specifically answered Randall's question regarding the difference between materials that can be mined vs. the area actually being unsafe to be there for only a period of time following his event.

How drunk was he really? Would you throw back a few after seeing such things? Did he throw alcohol on himself to clean his wounds? How coherent would you be following such an event? That he was very medically affected by the event is an established fact. That didn't come from a flying waffle iron.

Either you are going to give Rutkowski his due as a too notch ufologist or we're going to damn the whole field and say Hynek, Vallee and the whole cabal of ufologists, and any scientist really, are utterly useless and then why do we even bother talk about any single scientific aspect related to the field?

So I'll take Rutkowski's estimation of the case, given his very skeptical approach to the field over The Iron Skeptic who calls the case ridiculous, but to each their own.

What about the other features of the case listed?

 

[marduk]

Ok I know you listened to the episode and heard what I heard....it's not an appeal to authority so much as a genuine interest in the case by significant parties including one of the biggest debunkers of all time so there is obviously meat on the bone.

Rutkowski specifically answered Randall's question regarding the difference between materials that can be mined vs. the area actually being unsafe to be there for only a period of time following his event.

How drunk was he really? Would you throw back a few after seeing such things? Did he throw alcohol on himself to clean his wounds? How coherent would you be following such an event? That he was very medically affected by the event is an established fact. That didn't come from a flying waffle iron.

Either you are going to give Rutkowski his due as a too notch ufologist or we're going to damn the whole field and say Hynek, Vallee and the whole cabal of ufologists, and any scientist really, are utterly useless and then why do we even bother talk about any single scientific aspect related to the field?

So I'll take Rutkowski's estimation of the case, given his very skeptical approach to the field over The Iron Skeptic who calls the case ridiculous, but to each their own.

What about the other features of the case listed?

He could have easily had radiation sickness... from naturally occurring radiation.

What other facts?

 

[Burnt State]

He could have easily had radiation sickness... from naturally occurring radiation.

What other facts?

No the point that Rutkowski made was that materials at the site were not naturally occurring at all - the melted silver embedded with radiation, the concerns for park safety and a need to close the place off to human activity and then the whole issues regarding the quality of the person, how he treated the situation, the strange recurring health issues that lasted for years if I remember correctly, his lack of chasing fame and lack of belief in UFO's along with the estimation of the case by those who studied such things in depth. For me the preponderance of evidence and how he treated the event to the end of his life stands in start contrast to someone like Travis Walton.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Burnt State,
Makes a excellent point about cases where the experincers do not wish to be out there on the circuit selling books, shows or in newspapers just rather be left alone is more towards the unpleasent experinces with the unknown phenomena in some case.

 

[marduk]

No the point that Rutkowski made was that materials at the site were not naturally occurring at all - the melted silver embedded with radiation, the concerns for park safety and a need to close the place off to human activity and then the whole issues regarding the quality of the person, how he treated the situation, the strange recurring health issues that lasted for years if I remember correctly, his lack of chasing fame and lack of belief in UFO's along with the estimation of the case by those who studied such things in depth. For me the preponderance of evidence and how he treated the event to the end of his life stands in start contrast to someone like Travis Walton.

Here's what they actually said about it - remember the Canadian government is actually remarkably open about this stuff:

Related documents:
RCMP report of May 26, 1967

By this time, the authorities had become very interested in the case. There were aspects of Michalak's story that were difficult to explain, such as the burns on his body. The RCMPwanted to find the landing site to investigate further. They first attempted to find the site on their own, on May 31st, but were unsuccessful.

Related documents:
RCMP report of June 26, 1967

On June 1, 1967, Michalak was brought to Falcon Lake to lead another search. Michalak could not find the site, causing increased speculation about the validity of his claim. The RCMP uncovered another discrepancy in his story: Michalak had reported that he went for coffee the night before the alleged sighting; however the bartender at the Falcon Lake Motel's beverage room claimed to have served Michalak bottles of beer.

Emphasis is mine, but it should be clear: the dude was lying about drinking, and couldn't find the spot weeks after it occurred.

Related documents:
RCMP report of June 18, 1967

The RCMP decided to close the case until Michalak could locate the landing site. On June 26th, however, the case re-opened. Michalak claimed to have found the site on his own, and recovered objects he had left there -- pieces of his burnt clothing, steel tape, and some rocks and soil samples.

So the dude went back on his own, found the site, and found the evidence for the encounter.

On his own.

When he couldn't find it a month earlier.

Only after the RCMP wanted to close the case because they didn't quite believe him.

Related documents:
RCMP report of August 10, 1967

RCMP Squad Leader Bissky visited Michalak on the evening of June 26th and obtained samples of soil brought back from the location. The soil samples, along with samples of clothing and the steel tape, were sent to be tested for radioactive material. On July 24th, the results of these tests were sent to the RCMP along with a memo that stated, "U.F.O. reported by Stephen Michalak. Laboratory tests here indicate earth samples taken from scene highly radioactive. Radiation protection Div. of Dept. of Health and Welfare concerned that others may be exposed, if travel in area not restricted."

This is the bit that gets everyone excited, right?

Except there were follow up activities:

Related documents:
Memo of July 24, 1967

A second laboratory test was sent to the RCMP on July 25th. It stated that the Department of Health and Welfare would be sending a representative, Mr. Hunt, to Winnipeg to investigate.

Related documents:
Memo of July 25, 1967

On the evening of July 27, 1967, Michalak was visited by Hunt, Squad Leader Bissky and C.J. Davis, who explained the laboratory findings of radioactive material. Michalak agreed to take them to the landing site on the following day, July 28th. The group walked to the location in the afternoon and reported the scene to be bare of evidence except for a semi-circle on the rock face, 15 feet in diameter, where the moss had been somehow removed. Mr. Hunt found traces of radiation in a fault in the rock across the center of the landing spot. No trace of radiation was found around the outer perimeter of the circle or in the moss or grass below the raised portion of the rock. The radioactive material found in the rock fault was radium 226, an isotope in wide commercial use and also found in nuclear reactor waste. In view of the small quantity of soil contamination, Mr. Hunt determined that there was no danger to humans travelling in the area.

In other words: it was stuff widely available, wasn't a lot of it, and wasn't actually a problem at all.

Remember, this is close to where they actually mine the stuff.

Related documents:
RCMP report of August 10, 1967

Mr. Hunt's report of September 13, 1967

The Department of National Defence identifies the Falcon Lake case as unsolved. Stephen Michalak wrote a book about his experience, but claimed to never have financially benefited from his ordeal.

Related documents:
Department of National Defence letter

So which is it? He wrote a book and sold it, or he didn't financially benefit from it?

https://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/ufo/002029-1300.01-e.html (Library and Archives Canada)

There was no evidence of Michalak being exposed to radioactivity at all if you read the reports. He was tested, and found clean from all radioactive sources.

And this piece of metal:

I don't know where he got it. But why assume it's related to the incident at all?

 

[DaveM]

Here's what they actually said about it - remember the Canadian government is actually remarkably open about this stuff:



Emphasis is mine, but it should be clear: the dude was lying about drinking, and couldn't find the spot weeks after it occurred.



So the dude went back on his own, found the site, and found the evidence for the encounter.

On his own.

When he couldn't find it a month earlier.

Only after the RCMP wanted to close the case because they didn't quite believe him.



This is the bit that gets everyone excited, right?

Except there were follow up activities:



In other words: it was stuff widely available, wasn't a lot of it, and wasn't actually a problem at all.

Remember, this is close to where they actually mine the stuff.



So which is it? He wrote a book and sold it, or he didn't financially benefit from it?

https://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/ufo/002029-1300.01-e.html (Library and Archives Canada)

There was no evidence of Michalak being exposed to radioactivity at all if you read the reports. He was tested, and found clean from all radioactive sources.

And this piece of metal:

I don't know where he got it. But why assume it's related to the incident at all?

And here I thought it was a dog turd.

 

[Burnt State]

Here's what they actually said about it - remember the Canadian government is actually remarkably open about this stuff:



Emphasis is mine, but it should be clear: the dude was lying about drinking, and couldn't find the spot weeks after it occurred.



So the dude went back on his own, found the site, and found the evidence for the encounter.

On his own.

When he couldn't find it a month earlier.

Only after the RCMP wanted to close the case because they didn't quite believe him.



This is the bit that gets everyone excited, right?

Except there were follow up activities:



In other words: it was stuff widely available, wasn't a lot of it, and wasn't actually a problem at all.

Remember, this is close to where they actually mine the stuff.



So which is it? He wrote a book and sold it, or he didn't financially benefit from it?

https://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/ufo/002029-1300.01-e.html (Library and Archives Canada)

There was no evidence of Michalak being exposed to radioactivity at all if you read the reports. He was tested, and found clean from all radioactive sources.

And this piece of metal:

I don't know where he got it. But why assume it's related to the incident at all?

Thank you for the good critical response. You raise many good points on all counts. I don't have the book either and don't like to speculate about why Rutkowski promotes it so highly but I do think it's probably the case that set him in motion as the son was his best friend. I have spoken with him directly about about this case but on other points. There are holes as you pointed out and Chris himself shared the fact that no one in the area on any watchtowers saw the ships and thought they should be visible. But that appears to be a very common feature of CE cases that they seem to appear for that individual and few if any others ever. Though I thought the Mayo clinic advised radiation could be the reason for related sicknesses.

Motivations for reporting always make me curious. Why expose yourself or tell anyone unless something remarkable or inexplicable happened or you want to profit on some way. His book made no cash. His life was plagued as was his family for making the report. He exposed himself in very strange ways.

As for discontinuous evidence chains....I feel that the entire field is plagued with these aspects especially in CE or landing cases where we look for evidence to support the appearance of a ship. Even in my own case where I saw the ship hover over the garage and tree where the next spring we saw a radial burn area on the garage roof and a burnt tree I still can't connect these the way I did at the time. Now I acknowledge that perhaps lightening could be the culprit.

I find the entire mystery to be tantalizing. Evidence appears in bits and pieces and sometimes great stories are constructed out of them. But with any good story the narrative can be rewritten many different ways after the fact.

 

[marduk]

My point is that the Falcon Lake case has moved from the “holy shit” bucket to the “meh” bucket for me. And is teetering on going to the “probably BS” bucket with MJ-12, Aztec, drones, and 99% of Strieber’s post-communion stuff.

 

[Burnt State]

My point is that the Falcon Lake case has moved from the “holy shit” bucket to the “meh” bucket for me. And is teetering on going to the “probably BS” bucket with MJ-12, Aztec, drones, and 99% of Strieber’s post-communion stuff.

What's Communion got going for it that's disconnected from the post material and other forms of propheteering. Isn't Communion the first Gospel according to Whitley? It's just a story.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Marduk,
Are you saying the Canadians has released all their classified material on UFO?

 

[marduk]

Marduk,
Are you saying the Canadians has released all their classified material on UFO?

The Canadian what? RCMP?