Michael Horn & The Billy Meier Contacts

[TerraX]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Hi Mindsky. I comprehend what you're saying. What's an additional factor for me and feel free to counter the argument, is that I think sometimes you have to make a stand for what you feel is just. I agree with you that there's little point in arguing with a child and you extend the analogy to discussing matters with adults who've taken up a position akin to what an adolescent sometimes does. I think it becomes a matter of fine details, where do you draw the line. Where do you think 'ok, that's enough'. Where do you think 'others shouldn't fall for this'. Where do you think 'we need to think this thing through'.
Sociology is an important if not THE most important thing in ufology. I've discovered that ufology probably says more about ourselves then any ET could have done...

 

[jritzmann]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Jeff, I read how you responded to MH over at ATS. I think you handled it great and didn't stoop to his level. I applaud that, but past few pages, I think you may be letting it get to you.

Youre right of course. I can only say that no one knows how absolutely tired of this I am. I'm so friggin tired of it. I mean really...it's enough. At this point theyre looking to get MythBusters to tackle duplicating the photos and film...LOL...I guess one ex-ILM'er aint enough to tell them theyre faked. Let 'em go for 2. I doubt seriously whether Adam would look at those films and photos and think anyone could buy into them.

Anyway. I agree with Terrax in that there's times ya have to stand up for whats right...but at this point it's the same old tired arguments from these people and like I said, it's time to just let it dry up and blow away.

 

[ZTGR]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Yes Jeff R. it was sincere thought...but you are way too bitter...and
think yourself too important. You think 30 years from now someone is
talking about your model photo?

All the talk about how everyone attacked you here...but no one
attacks you in so many pages now...just other way around with your
name calling.

And you say everyone in it for the money...but you just accuse and
don't know. So all witnesses are liars...and fools? Or you don't
answer that cause you too busy feeling sorry for your poor self?
Okay...it was right to compare you with Meier. Only you are not made
of same stuff...and can not take heat in kitchen. Maybe
better that DB bakes the cake for you...but don't be there when he
bakes it.

Okay Tx...you say Meier lying about other cases. But how to prove
that? All you can say is you don't believe it's true or you do. And
thing is...today there are other witnesses and photographers in Meier
case...still happening now. If all was models like Jeff R.
says...then what are they photographing...where are models?

And no one still answers...

#1...Wedding cake UFo video...that's a
model? Some model that is far away and still so big. Gonna say force
perspective? Okay...make such video and prove it. and these other
cases...so-call...they have the info like Meier site and Mr. He Who?
Again don't think so...can't just criticize "all of it wrong
prophecies wrong"...no way...I'm doing reading to see too.

#2 So where is other better Ufo case with 11,000 views on forum?

Oh yeah...#3 how Meier made model photos in 1964 in India...and Mrs.
Phobol comes out that he is telling truth then and now? And Mr. Guido
with 30 years knows Meier...and his book.

Now I listen paracast radio show and see ...everyone talk
about 'paranormal' thing. Just strange thing but...not all paranormal
ALIEN...but big surprise...this is what paracast talk about and not Meier
case where thousands pages real information...expert people.

Answer also about witnesses...when dozen witness watch UFo for 30
minutes daytime...and take pictures...then big difference from most
reports.

 

[jritzmann]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Yes Jeff R. it was sincere thought...but you are way too bitter...and
think yourself too important. You think 30 years from now someone is
talking about your model photo?

I hope not. Then again I hope theyre not talking about Meier either.

All the talk about how everyone attacked you here...but no one
attacks you in so many pages now...just other way around with your
name calling.

I refer to PAR, not here. Try to follow along rather then read what you want to.

And you say everyone in it for the money...but you just accuse and
don't know. So all witnesses are liars...and fools? Or you don't
answer that cause you too busy feeling sorry for your poor self?
Okay...it was right to compare you with Meier. Only you are not made
of same stuff...and can not take heat in kitchen. Maybe
better that DB bakes the cake for you...but don't be there when he
bakes it.

Uh huh. I have answered everything you asked. If you dont want to see or read it, thats your issue. Everyone else has. If you can look anyone in the face and tell them Meier doesnt make any money off this then explain the lavish entrance to the Meier compound:

Yeah. Now tell us he doesnt make any money. Go ahead.

And no one still answers...

#1...Wedding cake UFo video...that's a
model? Some model that is far away and still so big. Gonna say force
perspective? Okay...make such video and prove it. and these other
cases...so-call...they have the info like Meier site and Mr. He Who?
Again don't think so...can't just criticize "all of it wrong
prophecies wrong"...no way...I'm doing reading to see too.

I posted the portions of found objects found on the model. I dont have to make anything to prove that. Again, you see what you want to. Thats your issue. I also posted a link where a gent explains the focal issues and the reflections in more detail then I'd ever take the time to do with people who refuse to see anything. Go read it, because I can tell you havent.

#2 So where is other better Ufo case with 11,000 views on forum?

I think we all know what we can attribute that to. Youre the car wreck no one can look away from.

Oh yeah...#3 how Meier made model photos in 1964 in India...and Mrs.
Phobol comes out that he is telling truth then and now? And Mr. Guido
with 30 years knows Meier...and his book.

How? As easy as he made models in 1975. I would have to say that due to the amount of contrary evidence in this case, they are either misidentifications or theyre just not being truthful. Thats my opinion. Could they be paid? I dont know, but it's certainly possible.

Answer also about witnesses...when dozen witness watch UFo for 30
minutes daytime...and take pictures...then big difference from most
reports.

These are unquestionably not of the "Meier standard" photos, and could be anything juding by the non-descript images. Some in my opinion are fireworks, possibly balloons, and others again in my opinion could be pay offs. These people are at the Meier compound where many alledged sightings have occurred, and *any* unknown object of course is going to be Semjase's "beam" ship. It happens all over the world, simple misidentifications.

Again, where are these people's negatives and photos so they can be examined?

Sorry, but youre at the end with me buddy. Have a nice life. If ya get anything new lemme know.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Jeff, this is the argument that Meier supporters will never admit is factual. They will just repeat the same old junk and ignore whatever responses you and the rest of our visitors present.

They have no negatives to demonstrate the alleged authenticity of their photos. You and others have asked for them over and over again and they are never available.

They will not admit that the Meier photos are easily duplicated, no matter how hard you try.

They cannot provide police records to demonstrate those alleged assassination attempts against Meier.

The most charitable thing I can say in such cases is that some real event may have occurred at one time, at the beginning. But when the experience wasn't repeated, Meier and others of his ilk fabricated subsequent encounters to keep the followers happy, the adoration in full bloom, and the donations filling the coffers.

And that is truly sad.

At this point, it is not anyone's responsibility to prove anything about Meier. It is his obligation, it is the obligation of his followers, and in that task they have utterly failed.

 

[jritzmann]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Totally agree Gene. This case is like the gum on the bottom of my shoe sometimes....I cant get it off me...and it's...icky.

 

[TerraX]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Okay Tx...you say Meier lying about other cases. But how to prove
that? All you can say is you don't believe it's true or you do. And
thing is...today there are other witnesses and photographers in Meier
case...still happening now. If all was models like Jeff R.
says...then what are they photographing...where are models?

My oh my. Seems like some of your answers came straight out of the Horn manual ZTGR and it's showing. Meier makes a claim and I have to prove him wrong? That's mighty convenient since it places the responsibility on the other. Horn tactics, been there before. Doesn't matter what I present to the contrary since you're still gonna back up Meier. I've been down this road. Really toiletseat-thinking, what a shame.
Have a look at ufology before 1975 and see the claims made by a variety of people. They all preceded Meier with there tales and guess what, some even had multiple eyewitnesses. Some even signed affadavits. Same as in the Meier case. What does Meier do? He claims those witnesses were lying, under hypnosis, having "visions" induced by "bad ETs", and other more lame excuses purely aimed at discrediting and debunking other material. These tactics are something I would expect from an ex-con and con-artist who might have had a close encounter himself and couldn't stand anyone near him in the ufo field. Do your homework ZTGR. The WC UFO is staring you blank in the face with its very terrestrial parts, only an idiot would not see it. Goodbye, come back when you have something remotely intelligent to say.

 

[ZTGR]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Okay Jeff R....you take photo of the lavish thing? Tell what is this thing...made of...you must know. You are photo expert...so tell about this thing that proves a money cult.

And my other question...still no real answer. Who can make model and video of Wedding cake UFo?

And Meier made models...in India long ago...nobody notice but they write newspaper article about him? And pay witness?

So Jeff has ALIEN bother him...years ago...over now. But Meier 30 years still goes and all...just lies? Maybe Jeff ALIEN more like what is psi ops against him...experiment at his cost.

 

[jritzmann]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

So Jeff has ALIEN bother him...years ago...over now. But Meier 30 years still goes and all...just lies? Maybe Jeff ALIEN more like what is psi ops against him...experiment at his cost.

I think you wanna be real careful here pal.

 

[David Biedny]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

ZTGR,

I agree with Jeff, if you're going to engage in this type of baiting, you will be banned. You've been warned.

 

[Mannyp4]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

They are getting afraid that J.R. will not give them more material to talk about.
Without him, they got nothing. No presentation, nothing to offer or talk about.
notice how they try to push him with the make the model crap or the duplicate photo B.O.S. argument. We know that it was done already and better and that proved nothing to them.

Don't fall for it. lets turn the table around and show them how ridiculous they are.
If any of them don't duplicate J.R. photos, that will proof that those photos are real.
;D ;D ;D they can't say anything as that is their own logic so we will be waiting.
november 22 2006.

 

[TerraX]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Few of the BM 'waiters' tried to get some publicity at the Mythbusters forum.
http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9701967776/m/8331915458/p/5
Not very succesful mind you.

 

[ZTGR]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Hard to know what you mean DB. No batting here...real question
cause we hear secret military has...psi ops. Okay...you don't want
talk about Meier...but no proof of ALIEN thing with Jeff. He had BAD
experience...this seems true as can be. So why now you threaten like
it's bad thing to say so? Too much wagging finger like...why you so afraid?

ALIEN always answer here for every paranormal...thing. But no sense that
someone comes from outer space...to play tricks on anyone even Jeff R.

So you don't want to answer...okay...then answer about lavish thing
and what you know. Maybe you don't know. Am I telling something here?
Maybe...but today is turky day.

Goodbye.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Hard to know what you mean DB. No batting here...real question
cause we hear secret military has...psi ops. Okay...you don't want
talk about Meier...but no proof of ALIEN thing with Jeff. He had BAD
experience...this seems true as can be. So why now you threaten like
it's bad thing to say so? Too much wagging finger like...why you so afraid?

ALIEN always answer here for every paranormal...thing. But no sense that
someone comes from outer space...to play tricks on anyone even Jeff R.

So you don't want to answer...okay...then answer about lavish thing
and what you know. Maybe you don't know. Am I telling something here?
Maybe...but today is turky day.

Goodbye.

Listen, here's the deal. Every time an independent party has actually analyzed the Meier photos as much as you can (no negatives -- a point you continue to ignore), they are found wanting. Even a casual glance by anyone with a smattering of photographic knowledge shows this.

Plus obvious frauds, like a photo using a garbage can lid, a photo of alleged aliens taken from a TV variety show, predictions that come after rather than before information about the matters in question is published. Then there are the claims of alleged assassination attempts against Meier where no police reports can be produced.

All this combines to shed serious doubt on this.

But supporters like you ignore and repeat the same questions again and again as if nothing was said, nothing happened.

My suggestion is that if you cannot address the issues raised, you please take your comments elsewhere. You've had more than enough time here to try to demonstrate your point, and you've failed.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out

 

[jritzmann]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

ZGTR-I'd encourage youto stick with what you know. You have no knowledge of my views on the alien/UFO issue whatsoever. I for one have never claimed or held an E.T. hypothesis, as you elude to, which by the way shows how little you know.

At any rate, youre aksing what the monument is made of at the Meier compound? I have no idea what possible difference it makes, but it appears to be concrete, stone and cast metal. I couldnt care less if it was made of duck dung. Whats your point.

 

[ZTGR]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Jeff R. what I know is you claim same photos as Meier...his are models you say...but anyone who sees comparison just laugh at claim. And at figu site is plenty of expert who disagree....about photos and all other evidence. And Vogel is expert scientist...who puts name behind metal...and Froehning and others...from Gary kinder book.

And what my point about 'lavish' monument is? What your point? That is big money maker expensive thing? How little you know...was made by 80 year old man...as gift for people there. But you are expert on everything...especial on Meier UFos...but you say you don't know about alien thing...just paranormal.

So Gene S. say don't let door hit on way out...what a good moderater he is for forum...or just can only say garbage lid, fake ect. But truth is...anyone who really look sees reason why Meier is still world talk topic for 30 years...and you have forum here mainly about him too.

Joke is on you maybe.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Jeff R. what I know is you claim same photos as Meier...his are models you say...but anyone who sees comparison just laugh at claim. And at figu site is plenty of expert who disagree....about photos and all other evidence. And Vogel is expert scientist...who puts name behind metal...and Froehning and others...from Gary kinder book.

And what my point about 'lavish' monument is? What your point? That is big money maker expensive thing? How little you know...was made by 80 year old man...as gift for people there. But you are expert on everything...especial on Meier UFos...but you say you don't know about alien thing...just paranormal.

So Gene S. say don't let door hit on way out...what a good moderater he is for forum...or just can only say garbage lid, fake ect. But truth is...anyone who really look sees reason why Meier is still world talk topic for 30 years...and you have forum here mainly about him too.

Joke is on you maybe.

The fact of the matter is that Jeff Ritzmann has produced better photos than Meier. After 30 years, considering that almost every element of Meier's claims has been exposed as a fraud, I can only think that it has taken on almost a religious aspect to some people. That's why logic and reason don't prevail, and why people like you ignore all the efforts to expose the fakery.

With all your messages, whoever you are, you have yet to address a single point raised by Ritzmann and others here.

End of story.

 

[jritzmann]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Jeff R. what I know is you claim same photos as Meier...his are models you say...but anyone who sees comparison just laugh at claim.

I encourage you to keep talking. With every post you just reinforce all the points I've made.

Please, continue.

ps-I also certainly dont believe the Monument is anything other then what it is, testament to the cashflow that is the Meier case.

 

[newinitiatio]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Hey ztgr, it's sickening isn't it how blinded are those that oppose everything about billy meier here on this forum. Believing in their own lies, they are driven by this irrational zeal and fervour to not want to believe it could be possible because they are cast with the safety net of their own making, which they fear to venture outside of and which they must protect in order to feel a little safer, not wanting to know anything that tests and challenges their dearly cherished and very outmoded view of reality.
I gather that these people aren't ready to handle the real truth or aren't willing to consciously accept them due to the threat imposed on the commercial interests of some here on this forum. Even if they secretly, behind closed doors, tinker with the idea that it could not possible be dismissed as a hoax, they nonetheless must take the path of least resistence, knowing that they won't do anything that would jeopardize their new venture. If they accepted and acknowledged that billy meiers contacts and information was truthful then they'd know that the repercussions will be immense and they may just be destroyed because giving credence to billy would also mean tacitedly supporting some of the most controversial information coming from him.
I am certain of the fact that there are factions within the secret government that would rather do away for good any information coming from billy meier because of his stance against what they represent but surely any person dealing with the topic of the paranormal who has ever come across billy meier or his representative would publically denounce it to the highest pitch of their own voices to display and advertise their negative stance against it for self protection because they know they might just piss off more than just the regular crowds, no matter whether they believe it or not. So ztgr, the facade and the pretense of gene and david is what you are witnessing through their vehement opposition at every turn anything to do with billy meier. You could logically deduce this for yourself that when smart people oppose billy meier, it's not that they are too smart for their own good nor is it saying gullible and the stupid must be the people who believe in billy meier but that self interest plays a large part.

 

[TerraX]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

No wonder Randolph Winters got thrown out;
http://www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/1997/may/m14-011.shtml