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Nazi UFOs
- Thread starter UBERDOINK
- Start date
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UBERDOINK said:
Let's see --- is this the documentary that showed some kind've "stonehenge"-looking metallic structure? And some witness who reported a saucer rising from the structure during the war?
Investigators had also found that the "bunker" was wired to use an inordinate amount of electrical power?
My memory says that the investigators were suspecting that the propulsion was electromagnetic not anti-gravity.
Does this sound like the same documentary? History Channel?
Ron Collins
Curiously Confused
There is a book that covers all of this. "The Hunt for Zero Point" by Nick Cook.
Amazon Link Its a good book.
Amazon Link Its a good book.
Aaron LeClair
Paranormal Maven
UBERDOINK said:
Yes, the Nazis were trying. They failed. That's one of the reasons they lost....... Make sense? No? Ok......
I saw a documentary that told me beans are bananas. Whoooooo, I'm smart.
Aaron LeClair
Paranormal Maven
UBERDOINK said:
Don't talk about my momma, I'll cry and stuff.
Ron Collins
Curiously Confused
CapnG said:
To be honest I know almost nothing about the alleged Nazi UFO programs. Can you share something about why this is crap? Has this stuff been shown to be false someplace? I looked expecting it to be all over the place, but I can only find supporting stuff.
CapnG
Devil's Advocate
RonCollins said:
The "proof" is what we commonly refer to as history. If the Nazis had created UFO-type craft, they'd have used them and won the war. They didn't, ergo no such craft exist. They may have researched the idea (there's plenty of evidence indicating they may have been looking into a vetrical fan drive system) but research does not equate to success.
CapnG said:
Evidence for Nazi experimentation with disc-shaped airframes = excellent.
Evidence for Nazi development of anti-gravity ufos = slim to none.
Were there really Nazi saucers?
Cook - Zero Point and All That
Other than Cook, the chief proponent of the Nazi UFO/Bell stuff at the moment seems to be Joseph Farrell with his books Reich of the Black Sun and The SS Brotherhood of the Bell. Here's an interview with him by Greg Bishop. There are a lot of other interviews with him on various paranormal shows on the net.
Viktor Schauberger was certainly ever flew.
Cook's book and film are certainly interesting and there are a lot of fascinating and tantalizing bits of speculation in them but he seems to play fast and loose with the facts on more than one occasion. As the ufodna article above mentions, "the 'test rig' Cook viewed at the mine has been shown conclusively to have been merely a Third-Reich-standard water tower base." Another thing that bothered me is that in his film he seems to have purposefully distorted Lonnie Zamora's account of his sighting to make it seem like he was looking at something for which there are similar schematics on record. There is a fairly elaborate CGI sequence in Cook's film that depicts a rather mechanical looking disc(Silverbug?) when all the definitive accounts of Zamora's case are quite clear that what he witnessed was an egg-shaped object.
To say that there is "nothing" to the idea of Nazi flying saucers is inaccurate and glosses over some very fascinating history. In a very real way it is part of the ufo story. That being said, there is nothing I have seen that I would class as good evidence that they ever got substantially beyond experimenting with some exotic airframes and unusual but more or less conventional propulsion techniques. There are definitely a lot of fascinating stories about that era. Some of them are probably true, some partially true, some completely false. Vast amounts of documentation was either destroyed during the war or is still classified by those that captured it. It's very difficult to speak definitively on what was actually being worked on and how far they got but I think it is safe to say that Nazi secret weapons are not the answer to the ufo question.
Google "Nazi ufo" and you'll find tons of stuff although the serious stuff is few and far between. There are torrents out of some older films on the subject.
UBERDOINK
Skilled Investigator
the problem with that statement isn't that we believe the Nazi's created the UFO's during ww2, but like the Atom bomb, etc. they were researching it, and may in fact, have created some viable technology that the US then incorporated into real craft.
We do know that at the end of the war the Nazi's were flying jet aircraft but couldn't manufacture enough to change the course of the war. They just got them working too late. Thank God.
Remember, it was all former Nazi's that gave us the Atom bomb, and tons of our other advancements after we brought them over in Project Paperclip.
My question is more, did experiments by ex-nazi's lead to the US creating UFO's. And testing one, crashing it in Roswell for example, since so many Nazi scientists were in new Mexico at that time anyway?
A valid question I think.
UBERDOINK said:
I believe it's a valid question, but I don't think the "waves" of '47-'52 even remotely support such a theory.
Whatever the phenomena of the period may have constituted, it led to one result: befuddlement from every level of the U.S. government from the top down. No one knew what was going on, especially the U.S..
The phenomena just didn't deploy like secret technology: it deployed explosively, seemingly oblivious to national boundaries --- it didn't care who saw it.
It flew happily into restricted areas, high school football games, Washington D.C., Antarctica --- this doesn't sound like secret U.S. (or any other nation's) technology.
It just doesn't seem plausible (reasonable) to me for the SR-71, U-2, B-2, F-117 to now be so widely publicized but we are still keeping secret 1940-era technology.
Of course, we are assuming there is a phenomenon to explain! By no means can we say that there is universal acceptance of a strange phenomena.
UBERDOINK
Skilled Investigator
True, it doesn't fill all the gaps.
But if quite of a few of those "sightings" weren't legitimate, and what is likely that a majority were due to mass "hysteria" over the UFO movement at the time. Then maybe the "real sightings" would be fit the idea closer.
I don't know, but it sounds like great research.
Check out William Lyne in a Google search, he has a video series that is quite interesting about this.
UBERDOINK said:
In the ufo conversation I find it bears constantly repeating that the majority of sightings reports are indeed mis-identifications. Careful field researchers will readily state this to be the case. My impression is that sighting waves do have a core truth of increased sighting frequency but that the size of the wave is greatly padded by cascading media coverage and subsequent "hysteria" and mis-identifications. I don't think we could really say how accurate our top-down view of a given wave actually is.
Another line of thought I have often played with is that even if you accept a premise of a fundamental propulsion breakthrough in the 1940's, consider all the related secondary systems that would have to be perfected as well in order to actually make the theory plausible. We have ufos moving into and out of bodies of water, 100 G accelerations at low altitudes, extreme acrobatics, movement into space, etc. Think of the control systems, radar systems(I'm not aware of any reports of ufos actually emitting detectable radar), sensors, etc. that you would need to let a human pilot perform such maneuvers with what has apparently been a perfect or near-perfect track record of not plowing into a subdivision. It seems to me that it has only been in the last 20-30 years or so that we've seen the kind of computing devices that would likely be necessary for such control systems and we still have problems with them.
There are of course all the crash stories.
I find it to be an interesting line of research but at best I could only see it being a small part of the overall puzzle.
UBERDOINK said:
Exactly how many reports would you like to ignore until it fits your theory? 90%? 99%?
Mass hysteria doesn't appear on radar.
But even ignoring social/psychological issues --- there is still no reasonable explanation for why any such program would be hidden from us today.
Polterwurst
Paranormal Adept
I really hate to revive this thread but I guess better me than some Nazi UFO conspiracy proponent.
It seems that a german TV history programme (a rather solid and credible one, I'm afraid) together with a historician (whose theory about Nazi nuclear weapon tests is controversial but who can't be counted among the usual right-wing Nazi UFO propagandists) has presented compelling documents and witness reports wich seem to indicate that SS general Hans Kammler, head of Hitler's secret weapons development, who is frequently mentioned in stories about the "Nazi Bell", didn't commit sucide in Prague at the end of WW II. According to the historician, the suicide was staged by Kammler and two of his men and rather than getting caught by the Russians, Kammler seems to have turned himself in to the American military who allowed him to go underground in exchange for his knowledge.
Well, as dyingsun recently saif, F humanity. At least the "end justifies means" part who make us look more callous than the fricking Vogons. Kammler was responsible for the concentration camps and the V rockets and a war criminal of the worst kind. To think that he could have escaped justice just like that... I still hope that this turns out to be exaggeration and purely a conspiracy theory.
But of course, there's operation paperclip. Kammler's body really seems to have never been found, and it's not inconceivable that the military would have agreed to his conditions to secure his knowledge and collaboration.
Btw. did I mention that IMO: a) yes, he was involved with the Bell, but the Bell was obviously "only" a nuclear weapon prototype. And b) no, they didn't have anti gravity and they weren't in cahoots with the Greys, the inhabitants of the dog star, the Reptilians, the fricking Vogons or Great Cthulhu.
I haven't seen the programme, the witness statements, documents etc. yet but it looks like this is legit. Will report later, when I've found out more. In the meantime, be prepared for the Nazi Ufonauts getting fresh wind in their sails and heading full speed ahead to their fictitious New Swabia base.
It seems that a german TV history programme (a rather solid and credible one, I'm afraid) together with a historician (whose theory about Nazi nuclear weapon tests is controversial but who can't be counted among the usual right-wing Nazi UFO propagandists) has presented compelling documents and witness reports wich seem to indicate that SS general Hans Kammler, head of Hitler's secret weapons development, who is frequently mentioned in stories about the "Nazi Bell", didn't commit sucide in Prague at the end of WW II. According to the historician, the suicide was staged by Kammler and two of his men and rather than getting caught by the Russians, Kammler seems to have turned himself in to the American military who allowed him to go underground in exchange for his knowledge.
Well, as dyingsun recently saif, F humanity. At least the "end justifies means" part who make us look more callous than the fricking Vogons. Kammler was responsible for the concentration camps and the V rockets and a war criminal of the worst kind. To think that he could have escaped justice just like that... I still hope that this turns out to be exaggeration and purely a conspiracy theory.
But of course, there's operation paperclip. Kammler's body really seems to have never been found, and it's not inconceivable that the military would have agreed to his conditions to secure his knowledge and collaboration.
Btw. did I mention that IMO: a) yes, he was involved with the Bell, but the Bell was obviously "only" a nuclear weapon prototype. And b) no, they didn't have anti gravity and they weren't in cahoots with the Greys, the inhabitants of the dog star, the Reptilians, the fricking Vogons or Great Cthulhu.
I haven't seen the programme, the witness statements, documents etc. yet but it looks like this is legit. Will report later, when I've found out more. In the meantime, be prepared for the Nazi Ufonauts getting fresh wind in their sails and heading full speed ahead to their fictitious New Swabia base.
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Wade
FeralNormal master
I just picked up Annie Jacobsen's operation paperclip and have yet to start reading it. I did see her at a signing at the santa monica library a couple of months back when the book just came out and she said something that revolted me but sounded all too likely...and probably was known and suspected by many here...when it came to meting out justice for the Nazi regime a clear distinction was made between the military participants who had little to offer us ( after all, they "lost the war" so what was there to be gained by giving pardons to the generals and such. their strategy was a failure and anything that could be fruitful could have easily been ascertained ) and the scientists who had everything to offer us.