Nazi UFOs

[DaveM]

I believe the V2 was meant to be primarily a psychological weapon; the ability to attack across the channel with impunity was meant to shock and awe the UK.

The V-1 was the prototype cruise missile. It flew slower than the V-2. The V-2 was a ballistic missile. It flew much faster than the V-1 and had a slightly bigger payload. The V-1 was sort of a terror weapon. It was called the buzz bomb as the engine cut out before hitting a target, it made a whistling sound on descent.

 

[Han]

I have spoken to eye witnesses of "doodlebugs" or V1s and they told me if you could hear it you were safe, but if the noise stopped you were in trouble. I think that what they found most terrifying was the indiscriminate nature of the V1 because they were not launched at precise targets rather they were just aimed at the general London area. The engine cutting out was due to the V1 running out of fuel. (at a predetermined distance after launch)
There was almost no way to counter this weapon apart from destroying it before launch, or the launch site and equipment itself.
However a few were shot down by AA guns but unless they could hit it enough times to cause it to explode mid air, inevitably it would fall to earth and explode on impact.
One other way was to try and shoot it down using fighter planes but this too was incredibly difficult to achieve, I have heard accounts of pilots flying next to one and using their wing tip to jostle the V1 off course.....

The V2 was even harder to repel because it was so much faster.

Here is a video of a Spitfire shooting down a V1:

 

[Polterwurst]

So I've just watched the programme. Unfortunately there's nothing in english or with subtitles, but for german speakers, here's the link:
Hitlers Geheimwaffenchef - History - ZDFmediathek - ZDF Mediathek

It seems that the theory that Kammler's survival is more than just another conspirational rumor - which a programme of the rather conservative (not privately owned) TV channel would avoid like the devil or, if at all, make fun of - seems to be based mainly on the statement of "whistleblower" John Richardson, who says that his father, Daniel W. Richardson was responsible for snatching Kammler away from the Soviets and getting him overseas. Richardson (father) worked for the CIC and seems to have been a man for the "top secret" missions who would take orders from Eisenhower and Roosevelt directly. According to his son he said in private conversations that he had interviewed Kammler after the date of his supposed sucide (May 9th 1945) and seen him off to the US.

John Richardson apparently made this statement in an Austrian documentary called "The Devil's Treasure". I can't find anything online, so I guess it's possible that this hasn't been released yet. Both the documentary film maker and John Richardson seem to be legit and not of the right wing / conspiracy nut persuasion, but of course, it's hard to tell just from the look of them. It's obvious, though, that Daniel Richardson really was a high-ranking secret service man.

If anyone has information about the Richardsons, please share.

There are a few other sources, though, that have "recently been uncovered", as the history programme says.

In 1949, the American government of Hessia (Germany) ordered a special investigator to find out what happened to Kammler. His report states that the CIC quite freely admitted to having arrested and interrogated him but that he later managed to escape, just to be subsequently caught by the Russians. A historian in the TV programme thinks that the latter part was probably a cover story by the CIC. The special investigator's report concludes that Kammler was probably still alive and that his suicide had been fabricated. There were at least six different versions of his suicide, but his body was never found.

Another source from Austria is mentioned, but with no more information than that "it has to do with banking".

Nothing is said about where Kammler is supposed to have lived in the years after the war, which projects he was involved with or what knowledge he imparted. The programme says that his main "working areas" at the end of World War II had been rockets and jetplanes. A third area is mentioned but the documentary kind of dances around the subject, indicating that it probably was nuclear bombs.

It seems that in the interview for the Austrian documentary, John Richardson says that his father told him Kammler did commit suicide in the end. After only a few years in the "isolation" of his new life, he supposedly hanged himself. Again, no further details are given. I'll probably have to wait until I get to watch this "Devil's Treasure" film and listen to the interview with John Richardson to learn more.

 

[Polterwurst]

I also believe that they had a plan to develop a "space bomber" that carried a "radioactive" bomb. I think the plane was called a "silbervogel" (silver bird auf Englisch) and the plan was to drop the said bomb from a vast altitude which would then explode about 3000 feet above the target dispersing radioactive particles in all directions, which would cause radiation sickness and death to those below.

Yes, this was being proposed to the Nazis by Eugen Sänger. I don't know if his plans for a suborbital bomber led directly to the space shuttle, but it's probable that they built on them. The fact that he was not only a member of the national socialist party but also of the SS didn't seem to have much of an impact on his post war career. Some time in the 90s, there was a (never realized) european spaceshuttle project for which they ingeniously proposed the name "Sänger". Which caused quite a wave of indignation. Maybe he didn't cause any atrocities himself and maybe he was in the party and the SS only to further his career, but the fact that he even proposed this mass murder bomber should have been enough not to allow for any acknowledgement by giving such a project his name.

 

[Han]

Thank you for your excellent summary of the documentary.

 

[TrivialSublime]

To be honest I know almost nothing about the alleged Nazi UFO programs. Can you share something about why this is crap? Has this stuff been shown to be false someplace? I looked expecting it to be all over the place, but I can only find supporting stuff.

You could do some searching on Google. If I remember correctly the case for Nazi UFO came from a book written in German that someone used as a reference. I too have seen "pictures" of reported NAZI UFO as well as drawings. I'd like to believe but belief is not proof. I also remember seeing something that said the alleged place where they were using were supposedly using EM force to levitate a saucer was in reality some kind of power substation.

I'd like to believe too but that doesn't make it real.

 

[boomerang]

To be honest I know almost nothing about the alleged Nazi UFO programs. Can you share something about why this is crap? Has this stuff been shown to be false someplace? I looked expecting it to be all over the place, but I can only find supporting stuff.

The most thought provoking work I have read is the one you mentioned by Nick Cook. Cook does an excellent job of almost connecting dots and raises valid questions in the process.

 

[Sighing Flosser]

I had a disturbing idea recently concerning the Nazi rocket program. We know their rocket program was reliant on slave labor, and that they worked many thousands of these prisoners to death. We also know that the Nazis had no problem performing deadly experiments on concentration camp prisoners, including horrible high altitude experiments in the name of "space medicine." And we know that as soon as the U.S. and Soviet Union captured V2 rockets and began test launching them, one of the first things both nations did was modify the rockets to carry animals for test flights - dogs and monkeys and such. If that was one of the earliest V2 rocket experiments carried out by the U.S. and Soviet Union, you have to assume that it's something the Nazis would have considered as well. After all, they had big plans for their rocket program - satellites, moon bases, etc... They knew very early on that these plans would require manned flights. Therefore, it's likely that they too would have tried to modify V2 rockets to carry living test subjects. Now ask yourself this: Would the people who performed deadly experiments on prisoners of war, whose very space program was created by working slave laborers to death, use dogs or monkeys as their living test subjects?

I think it's very likely that the first human in space was not Yuri Gagarin or even Vladimir Illyushin - it was a doomed P.O.W. on a one-way trip. Of course the Nazis never would have announced such an experiment. For one thing, I'm pretty sure it would have been considered a war crime - not that the Nazis weren't already well acquainted with war crimes. However, I think racial ideology was probably the real reason why they wouldn't have made such an announcement. They would have wanted to proclaim an Aryan as the first human in space.

Just my supposition. It's a terrifying thought, but I think it makes a lot of sense. And don't forget - these were the same people who established the American space program.

 

[boomerang]

I don't recall authorship or title. But in a book recounting the history of "rocket science" from Goddard, through Von Braun and Apollo, the author's contention was that as a delivery mechanism for conventional ordinance, the V-2 was a very non-cost effective investment. Following this line of reasoning, the Third Reich had, in fact, invested billions it its development with the ultimate aim of producing nuclear missles.

Top echelons of the Nazi leadership were notoriously bad judges of how best to use the "wonder weapons" they already possessed. Consider Hitler's initial policy of using the Me262 as a bomber rather than as the air superiority fighter it could have been. Had the V-2 been used from mobile instead of fixed launching sites--another dictum from weirdos on high refusing to heed expert advice--it would have been much more survivable and hence played a greater role in the war's outcome.

Perhaps we should be thankful megalomaniacal dictators are prone to irrational and ill informed decisions.