New mummy hoax: look who is involved!

[Han]

From the ATS thread Constance posted:

"About a year and a half ago, four Peruvian tomb robbers came upon something that seemed like a tomb complex in the region of Nazca, very close to the famous Nazca glyphs (they originally announced the find to be close to Tacna). Within it, they found a large number of mummies, mummified body parts and other objects. The four robbers soon realized this was no ordinary tomb. The mummies they extracted did not look human, or like any animal known to them.
As they probed the black market for interest in the items, a French archaeologist named Thierry Jamin was introduced to a middle man and asked if he was interested in buying some of the objects. Jamin has been working on obtaining as many of the objects as possible since, and some of them can be seen in the posted videos. Jamin runs a crowd funding collect and has Facebook and Youtube accounts dedicated to the subject under the name Alien Project."

Strange Mummies From Nazca Studied By Medical Team, page 1

So my hunch was right, they were looted.

 

[Red]

Even if this were a credible find , Mausson's past involvement in other shady ventures does not help and only serves to cast serious doubt on the legitimacy of the entire affair. The Peruvians have every right to protect their cultural heritage as they see fit. To somehow try and skate around the Peruvian authorities does nothing for Mausson's cause, and only serves to cause continued damage to the legitimacy of this field.

 

[Double Nought Spy]

Maybe Rick Dyer will have a real bigfoot next time he hits the road with a "presentation" too.

Maybe Michael Horn will post a message somewhere that doesn't read like it was written by a 12 year old psychopath.

Maybe Kal Korff will apologize for his attempt at stealing valor.

Maybe Santa Claus is real.

 

[Walter Bosley]

Hi @Walter Bosley I believe that you were at 'contact in the desert 2017'? did you happen to see these 'artifacts' by any chance?

The Upcoming Spectacular "Contact In The Desert" Conference In May In California - Hidden Inca Tours


It is probably worth mentioning that the pictures above are not of Jaime's 'mummalien' (mummy/alien) but I suspect that they are from the same 'source'.

Thank you

No, I did not get to see the above. I was at the vendor table the whole time, except for some walking around.

I predict that when this proves to be nothing, its proponents will not say a word and will likely be on to the next thing.

 

[Constance]

 

[Bob Watson]

 

[Walter Bosley]

More of the same.

 

[Constance]

More of the same.

?? The same what? Those anomalous metal objects, for example, were implanted in the mummies currently being analyzed [through x-ray and MRI technologies] when the preserved bodies were still alive. There is a great deal to be understood here, and we in the English-speaking world thus far have little available information concerning the examinations recently accomplished.

I hope this situation will change, but it depends on what efforts can and will be made by English-speaking researchers to understand and report to the English-speaking public about what has been discovered so far by some international medical scientists including those presented in the video I linked.

 

[Han]

No lo tocaría con un poste de la barcaza.


I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

C/o Google Translate.

 

[Constance]

No lo tocaría con un poste de la barcaza.


I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

C/o Google Translate.

Lot of scientists (and lots of ordinary people like us) wouldn't and won't. But some will. Why not just stand by and wait to see what comes of scientific investigations of these artifacts? Thorough investigations will first require 'official' permissions and facilitations in Peru, and then depend on the participation of accredited scientists and funding of their research in other countries. Overreacting to the existence of hoaxing in the degraded world we exist in today is pointless if it deters (and it does deter) scientific investigation of ancient artifacts from which we might learn a great deal about our history. N'est-ce pas?

 

[Red]

From the ATS thread Constance posted:

"About a year and a half ago, four Peruvian tomb robbers came upon something that seemed like a tomb complex in the region of Nazca, very close to the famous Nazca glyphs (they originally announced the find to be close to Tacna). Within it, they found a large number of mummies, mummified body parts and other objects. The four robbers soon realized this was no ordinary tomb. The mummies they extracted did not look human, or like any animal known to them.
As they probed the black market for interest in the items, a French archaeologist named Thierry Jamin was introduced to a middle man and asked if he was interested in buying some of the objects. Jamin has been working on obtaining as many of the objects as possible since, and some of them can be seen in the posted videos. Jamin runs a crowd funding collect and has Facebook and Youtube accounts dedicated to the subject under the name Alien Project."

Strange Mummies From Nazca Studied By Medical Team, page 1

So my hunch was right, they were looted.

Thierry Jamin appears problematic as well, and not surprising that Maussan and Jamin may have managed to find each other. I found this article in french that raises some serious questions about his academic history and subsequent claims he's made about his career. The google translation isn't great, but you should be able to get the jist:
Google Translate

I readily acknowledge there are some outstanding researchers who do not have academic credentials, but all too often, misrepresentations about one's own credentials have proved problematic in ufology. Hyperbole regarding one's credentials is one of the key reasons why people can't take us seriously.

The next bit I found off of wikipedia's page on Jamin:
"On May 22, 2012, Jamin submitted a new project proposal to the Ministry of Culture to open the door. In November 2012, the regional Direction of Culture of Cusco denied the authorization to excavate the site[13] and, in February 2013, strongly criticized, along with the Direction of Machu Picchu Archaeological Park, the lack of scientism and methodology of his project and assumptions.[14][15] As per February 2013, the Ministry of Culture from Lima has not made any decision and negotiations are ongoing,[16] and Jamin hopes for a new study conducted by a third party.[17]"

A little digging on the internets confirm that Peruvian officials take a dim view of Jamin.
Ministerio de Cultura rechazó supuesta tumba de Pachacutec

Constance, I'm sorry, but Jamin just looks a bit shady, too. I've made it pretty clear that I'm pretty skeptical about this stuff, but I can acknowledge that there are people who think there is a possibility for ancient contact. Any scientist involved in the pretty outrageous claims made about the bodies needs to be above reproach, and it ain't happening. I think the cardiac specialist from stateside is the only one, and the rest are questionable at best.

 

[Constance]

Constance, I'm sorry, but Jamin just looks a bit shady, too. I've made it pretty clear that I'm pretty skeptical about this stuff, but I can acknowledge that there are people who think there is a possibility for ancient contact.

@Red, the website you link commenting on Jamin, and the government bureaucrat in Peru who attempted to shut down public interest in the Nazca anomalies with his letter/PR release should not be the only sources you follow if you are genuinely interested in these Nazca anomalies or even in the 'possibility for ancient contact'. Or course, we all gravitate toward interpretations of anomalies that can fit easily into our existing worldviews, but our worldviews often block us from engaging subject matter from which there is something significant, and perhaps paradigm-changing, to be learned.

Any scientist involved in the pretty outrageous claims made about the bodies needs to be above reproach, and it ain't happening. I think the cardiac specialist from stateside is the only one, and the rest are questionable at best.

Scientists and other researchers who engage themselves in investigations of anomalous phenomena that significantly challenge the status quo (and the beliefs that sustain it) are typically vigorously impugned by theory-laden web-posters such as the one you cite and very often by government bureaucrats and disinformationists who likewise seek to discredit and suppress this kind of research. The goal in both cases is the suppression of the research itself, but the easiest way to forestall or undermine the research is to attack the reliability of the researchers themselves. It's an old and lamentable practice. It's also why most scientists will not engage in these kinds of research, dreading the result that doing so will destroy their reputations for being 'above reproach'.

The above represents a vicious circle that forestalls human progress in exploring the deep past on this planet -- something we need and desire to do for our own sake and its own sake -- and possibly (in this particular case) also discovering evidence of ancient contact by extraterrestrials who might have engaged in genetic engineering [beneficial or not, successful or not] of our species and perhaps other species on this planet.

 

[Constance]

Comment posted by "Heliocentric" a credentialed academic archaeologist not involved in this Nazca research, at ATS a day or ago:

"As of now, no laboratory has reported these mummies 'constructed', they have simply performed C-14 and DNA analysis of samples.

Every MD/scientist/radiologist/researcher who have actually studied the mummies claim they are authentic, unaltered mummies of an unknown humanoid species, anatomically and biomechanically different but functional beings.

One or two of the smaller mummies are suspected to be anatomically altered by the embalmers that mummified them.

The C-14 tests support their antiquity."

Strange Mummies From Nazca Studied By Medical Team, page 19

 

[Red]

@Red, the website you link commenting on Jamin, and the government bureaucrat in Peru who attempted to shut down public interest in the Nazca anomalies with his letter/PR release should not be the only sources you follow if you are genuinely interested in these Nazca anomalies or even in the 'possibility for ancient contact'. Or course, we all gravitate toward interpretations of anomalies that can fit easily into our existing worldviews, but our worldviews often block us from engaging subject matter from which there is something significant, and perhaps paradigm-changing, to be learned.

So it doesn't matter to you if Mausson has been caught promoting clear cut frauds before? Or even in the case of Jamin, engaged in illegally obtaining Peruvian mummies for god knows what purpose?

Scientists and other researchers who engage themselves in investigations of anomalous phenomena that significantly challenge the status quo (and the beliefs that sustain it) are typically vigorously impugned by theory-laden web-posters such as the one you cite and very often by government bureaucrats and disinformationists who likewise seek to discredit and suppress this kind of research. The goal in both cases is the suppression of the research itself, but the easiest way to forestall or undermine the research is to attack the reliability of the researchers themselves. It's an old and lamentable practice. It's also why most scientists will not engage in these kinds of research, dreading the result that doing so will destroy their reputations for being 'above reproach'.

Nope. I don't believe there is any far reaching conspiracy. I think you can find reputable scientists to do the work, if you are willing to take the time. The DNA tests on Starchild skull was done a few years back by a very reputable researcher with long-standing experience. Nor do I think there is any conspiracy in the fact that the Peruvian government clearly wants to protect its cultural and historic heritage.
I would ask you, if it is proved that Mausson and Jamin are proven to have engaged in some sketchy activities regarding the acquisition of ancient bodies and their alteration, thus damaging their integrity, how would you thus defend their actions?

 

[Constance]

Further post by Heliocentric:

"No one needs to make their minds up. No one needs to sign up for something or pay anything.

The research is continuing, more scientists will engage in studies. I cannot say what the results will be or how long it will take, but I can say that up until today there is no scientific data that indicates the bodies are fake or altered (with some doubts concerning one or two of the smaller bodies, that could have been anatomically altered). All the studies conducted so far tells us they are authentic, unaltered dehydrated bodies, aged from a range between 700-7000 BP. What exactly they are is still open. This could change, but in that case because of more accurate, better data. Not because of opinions.

There's no need to get all emotional about it and entrench yourself behind an opinion. Here's my suggestion to the detractors. Why don't you drop by in a year from now and see how this thing has evolved? I'd say that a year's scrutiny by the MSM, the scientific community and various alternative thinkers would be sufficient to establish a more complete picture of what's going on. Right now you're all just trying to make sense out of thousands of opinions circulating on the Web.

Listen to them if you like, but don't make up your mind. Leave a space open for the possibility that they are right or wrong. Me included. Above all, listen to the professionals who have actually studied the bodies and are putting their careers at risk in service of science. Logically, they are more likely to know better than the people who have not studied the bodies, no?



"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods."

-Albert Einstein

 

[Constance]

So it doesn't matter to you if Mausson has been caught promoting clear cut frauds before? Or even in the case of Jamin, engaged in illegally obtaining Peruvian mummies for god knows what purpose?

I think that Mausson has generally acted in good faith but did not seek a sufficient number of professional consultants before he publicized what he thought might have been disclosed in the slides case. Also in the preceding case of mistaken interpretation of the bald monkey, he didn't obtain sufficient advice from biologists. Yes, he rushes forward with inadequately examined specimens, and yes he is more entrepreneur and enthusiast than researcher. What do you think Jamin's purpose was in "illegally obtaining Peruvian mummies"? My guess is that he wished to acquire them for legitimate research purposes.

Nope. I don't believe there is any far reaching conspiracy. I think you can find reputable scientists to do the work, if you are willing to take the time.

Yes, occasionally, as in Lloyd Pye's research into the 'starchild' skull. But he too had to withstand years of ridicule and suspicion, didn't he? I'm not saying that most scientists are involved in a 'conspiracy' to suppress evidence of significant anomalies. They merely want to maintain their own lives, careers, reputations, and income, which are all placed at risk in undertaking research concerning ufos and anomalies of the sort found in Nazca.

Nor do I think there is any conspiracy in the fact that the Peruvian government clearly wants to protect its cultural and historic heritage.

How would allowing scientific research into the nature of the Nazca 'mummies' damage Peru's "cultural and historic heritage"? The stealing, selling, and possible falsification of these mummies is an entirely separate matter. One can oppose the latter and still support the former.

I would ask you, if it is proved that Mausson and Jamin are proven to have engaged in some sketchy activities regarding the acquisition of ancient bodies and their alteration, thus damaging their integrity, how would you thus defend their actions?

There's surely reason to doubt Mausson's purposes in pursuing these Nazca artefacts since he has in the past been too quick to make ambitious claims and to monetize them to keep his own show going. [note: it could also be the case that in pursuing the Nazca specimens Mausson hopes to be involved in, and redeemed by funding, research concerning a discovery that will stand up to more thorough scientific analysis] Jamin seems, by contrast, to be a genuine researcher interested in genuine discoveries for the sake of expanding knowledge. If he has in the past illegally obtained biological/archaeological specimens from Peru in order to pursue research on them in France, I think you can reasonably be outraged by the 'illegality' of his means of acquiring those specimens without placing in question the legitimacy of the goals of his research.

ps, from what I have read, Jamin has not associated himself with Maussan. He has worked for years with the nonprofit Inkari Association, which he founded with archaeological colleagues in Peru to undertake exploration of several Inca sites in cooperation with the Ministry of Culture's preservation and legal guidelines.

Los miembros del Instituto Inkari Cusco

Los misiones del Instituto

¡Advertencia!

 

[Greers Meeting Planner]

Strange how this 'find' looks so similar to an alien from TV or pop culture.

Looks like life began on another planet somewhere, and then through millions of years of evolution it evolved to be intelligent.....

It also took a humanoid form, not too different in size from our own and has two arms and two legs. They mastered interstellar travel, and then....

Out of all the planet's and stars in the universe they chose the earth to come and visit. While they were here they then DIED and were not taken home. No, in fact they were left here and mummified. (Only after they were finished making big shapes in the NASCAR dessert)

They were then put into a cave and preserved for thousands of years before being UNCOVERED from history!!!

Once found, this paradigm shifting find of a lifetime was given to science??? No! Of course not, It was given to heiny mausson - the bastion of truth and authenticity to reveal to the world (for a small fee).

It must be true, right?

 

[mike]

Strange how this 'find' looks so similar to an alien from TV or pop culture.

Looks like life began on another planet somewhere, and then through millions of years of evolution it evolved to be intelligent.....

It also took a humanoid form, not too different in size from our own and has two arms and two legs. They mastered interstellar travel, and then..

Actually some scientists are suggesting that might not be so strange after all.

Aliens Will Look a Lot Like Us, Says an Expert on Evolution

Why aliens might look like you: DNA could be a 'universal constant' - making humans and ET closer to 'cousins' | Daily Mail Online

 

[withoutlimits09]

 

[Greers Meeting Planner]

Actually some scientists are suggesting that might not be so strange after all.

Aliens Will Look a Lot Like Us, Says an Expert on Evolution

Why aliens might look like you: DNA could be a 'universal constant' - making humans and ET closer to 'cousins' | Daily Mail Online

Scientists only have 1 sample of life in the universe. Here.

There is NO evidence of genesis taking place at any other planet or at any other time on earth.

Genesis is not even understood yet. We don't know how life started. It has not been repeated or demonstrated.

We have no evidence of any other intelligent life developing on earth other than humans. Think of all the species that have evolved throughout the whole of the planet's history and only 1 managed to get to technological intelligence. By this measure intelligent life could be seen as an obscurity rather than an eventuality.

And we have no evidence of even basic life outside of earth.

Put all these unknowns together, how can you possibly make the assumption that aliens would even exist, let alone look like us