New mummy hoax: look who is involved!

[mike]

The Laws of Probability Tell Us That the Universe Should Be Teeming With Intelligent Life Forms

Universe could actually be teeming with alien life following THIS discovery

Right now the race is on to directly find amino acids elsewhere in the solar system. Some hints that they abound have been found on meteorites that have landed on Earth from outer space, as well as from missions such as NASA's Stardust probe, which sampled the coma of comet Wild 2 in 2004.


"All signs are that amino acids are going to be found throughout the galaxy," Freeland said. "They are apparently obvious building blocks with which to construct life. What we're finding hints at a certain level of predictability in the way things turned out."

An energy analysis by Ralph Pudritz, a theoretical astrophysicist and director of the Origins Institute at McMaster University shows that the first ten amino acids are likely to form at relatively low temperatures and pressures, and the calculated odds of formation match the concentrations of these life-chemicals found in meteorite samples.

They also match those in simulations of early Earth, and most critically, those simulations were performed by other people. The implications are staggering: good news for anyone worried about how we're alone, and bad news for anyone who demands some kind of "Designer" to put life together - it seems that physics can assemble the organic jigsaw all by itself, thank you very much, and has probably done so throughout space since the beginning of everything.

The study indicates that you don't need a miracle to arrive at the chemical cocktail for early life, just a decently large asteroid with the right components. That's all. The entire universe could be stuffed with life, from the earliest prebiotic protein-a-likes to fully DNAed descendants. The path from one to the other is long, but we've had thirteen and a half billion years so far and it's happened at least once.

Today's Feature: Is Earth's DNA Unique or a Universal Constant?

Given that how could we make an assumption they don't exist ?.

The laws of probability favor alien life, and we've apparently found the building block chemicals in meteorite samples.

No one can prove they do or don't exist, but the laws of probability favor a yes answer imo.

 

[mike]

And then there is the Von Neumann probe scenario

The new calculations, reported in the International Journal of Astrobiology this week, expanded on the previous work by using "self-replicating" probes in the computer models to see how the self-replication would affect the timescale.

The robotic probes could explore our galaxy and self-replicate themselves from interstellar dust and gas, after which the parent and child probes would each set off for a different star, where they would look for signs of life and then self-replicate themselves again. The probes would therefore disperse themselves radially across space.

In all the scenarios the scientists looked at, exploration timescales were reduced when the probes were self-replicating, and they concluded that a fleet of self-replicating probes could travel at only 10% of the speed of light and still explore the entire Galaxy in the relatively short time of 10 million years. This is a tiny fraction of the age of the Earth



Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2013-07-self-replicating-alien-probes.html#jCp

Such probes might use local biological material to create biological waldos at the planets they encounter. Humanoid "aliens" could result from this scenario.

Not suggesting this is the answer to the humanoid aliens question, but in my view it moves the goal posts from absurd to plausible. From absolutely not, to possible.

 

[mike]

We don't know how life started. It has not been repeated or demonstrated.

Dr Craig Venter, a multi-millionaire pioneer in genetics, and his team have managed to make a completely new "synthetic" life form from a mix of chemicals.

They manufactured a new chromosome from artificial DNA in a test tube, then transferred it into an empty cell and watched it multiply – the very definition of being alive.

The man-made single cell "creature", which is a modified version of one of the simplest bacteria on earth, proves that the technology works.
Scientist Craig Venter creates life for first time in laboratory sparking debate about 'playing god'

PLAYING GOD: Scientists create new DNA to make 'ALIEN' life form

The creation of the synthetic cell began on a computer. Venter says his team assembled it and transplanted it into a recipient cell and converted that to a new species.

"We built the DNA chromosome from scratch from four bottles of chemicals, chromosomes over 1 million letters long.

And just because they are smart arses......

His research team inserted watermarks in the synthetic DNA to be decoded, including a James Joyce quotation: "To live, to err, to fall, to triumph, to recreate life out of life."

Creating Life in a Jar: From Amino Acids to Apes with iPods

Life's First Spark Re-Created in the Laboratory

 

[Greers Meeting Planner]

Dr Craig Venter, a multi-millionaire pioneer in genetics, and his team have managed to make a completely new "synthetic" life form from a mix of chemicals.

They manufactured a new chromosome from artificial DNA in a test tube, then transferred it into an empty cell and watched it multiply – the very definition of being alive.

The man-made single cell "creature", which is a modified version of one of the simplest bacteria on earth, proves that the technology works.
Scientist Craig Venter creates life for first time in laboratory sparking debate about 'playing god'

PLAYING GOD: Scientists create new DNA to make 'ALIEN' life form

The creation of the synthetic cell began on a computer. Venter says his team assembled it and transplanted it into a recipient cell and converted that to a new species.

"We built the DNA chromosome from scratch from four bottles of chemicals, chromosomes over 1 million letters long.

And just because they are smart arses......

His research team inserted watermarks in the synthetic DNA to be decoded, including a James Joyce quotation: "To live, to err, to fall, to triumph, to recreate life out of life."

Creating Life in a Jar: From Amino Acids to Apes with iPods

Life's First Spark Re-Created in the Laboratory

All very good but we don't know how genesis occurred on earth

This is a form of genesis with technological intervention

I.e. this is interesting but it doesn't change that we don't know how genesis occurred

 

[mike]

As far as this mummy is concerned and whilst i traditionally take Constance's approach of waiting till its been proved one way or another.
I have some issues with Maussan these days. He staked his reputation on the last one, and he lost it imo.

He had the access and ability to do the due diligence that others did in exposing the truth about that case, and instead sold tickets first and asked questions later.

Its hard to avoid the maxim fool me one shame on you fool me twice shame on me in this case

 

[mike]

we don't know how genesis occurred on earth

"By changing the way we mix the ingredients together, we managed to make ribonucleotides," said Sutherland. "The chemistry works very effectively from simple precursors, and the conditions required are not distinct from what one might imagine took place on the early Earth."

According to Sutherland, these laboratory conditions resembled those of the life-originating "warm little pond" hypothesized by Charles Darwin if the pond "evaporated, got heated, and then it rained and the sun shone."Such conditions are plausible, and Szostak imagined the ongoing cycle of evaporation, heating and condensation providing "a kind of organic snow which could accumulate as a reservoir of material ready for the next step in RNA synthesis."

So the experiment does tend to fit the hypothesis.

University of Manchester scientists decided to solve the problem, and please note that when U of M decides on something they don't mess around: they spent a full ten years smashing together the pre-life pieces until they eventually fit together. Just as they would have done in early Earth's oceans.

So i think they have taken a hypothesis as to how life formed here on earth, replicated those conditions in the lab and the results confirm that hypothesis.

Without a time machine we cant see how genesis occured on earth, but we can hypothesize how it happened and run experiments to prove or disprove that hypothesis. Thus far the results confirm the hypothesis.

Primordial Soup's On: Scientists Repeat Evolution's Most Famous Experiment

Here, you can learn about important hypotheses regarding when, where and how life originated and find out how scientists study an event that occurred so long ago.
From soup to cells — the origin of life

 

[Han]

Thierry Jamin appears problematic as well, and not surprising that Maussan and Jamin may have managed to find each other. I found this article in french that raises some serious questions about his academic history and subsequent claims he's made about his career. The google translation isn't great, but you should be able to get the jist:
Google Translate

I readily acknowledge there are some outstanding researchers who do not have academic credentials, but all too often, misrepresentations about one's own credentials have proved problematic in ufology. Hyperbole regarding one's credentials is one of the key reasons why people can't take us seriously.

The next bit I found off of wikipedia's page on Jamin:
"On May 22, 2012, Jamin submitted a new project proposal to the Ministry of Culture to open the door. In November 2012, the regional Direction of Culture of Cusco denied the authorization to excavate the site[13] and, in February 2013, strongly criticized, along with the Direction of Machu Picchu Archaeological Park, the lack of scientism and methodology of his project and assumptions.[14][15] As per February 2013, the Ministry of Culture from Lima has not made any decision and negotiations are ongoing,[16] and Jamin hopes for a new study conducted by a third party.[17]"

A little digging on the internets confirm that Peruvian officials take a dim view of Jamin.
Ministerio de Cultura rechazó supuesta tumba de Pachacutec




Constance, I'm sorry, but Jamin just looks a bit shady, too. I've made it pretty clear that I'm pretty skeptical about this stuff, but I can acknowledge that there are people who think there is a possibility for ancient contact. Any scientist involved in the pretty outrageous claims made about the bodies needs to be above reproach, and it ain't happening. I think the cardiac specialist from stateside is the only one, and the rest are questionable at best.

After a bit of research I discovered exactly what you are talking about, and that is why I said I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

My experience is when you have two opposing claims, the truth can often lie somewhere in the middle.

My understanding is that the Peruvian authorities and Mr Jamin had previously worked together, and the relationship has broken down.

I have never been to Peru so I can only judge from what I have seen and read from afar, but it seems that for whatever reason the 'state' is unable to protect it's cultural history, ET or otherwise.

This whole situation is a one warren I am not going to enter, or maybe I should say I am not going any further into it.

It is all very sad.

 

[Red]

And then there are the hands. Three-fingered hands with no opposable thumbs has no evolutionary advantage. Try not using your thumbs for a couple of hours. You would be able to do most tasks, but your hands would be fatigued after awhile.

 

[Constance]

And then there are the hands. Three-fingered hands with no opposable thumbs has no evolutionary advantage. Try not using your thumbs for a couple of hours. You would be able to do most tasks, but your hands would be fatigued after awhile.

It's been pointed out in one of these internet discussion forums that humanoid beings with three-fingered hands occur in many ancient cave paintings in South America and elsewhere. It just occurred to me that one reason why we see so many five-fingered hands impressed on walls covered with cave art in Europe might be that this distinguishing characteristic seemed important to the people of those regions as a means of identifying themselves as distinct from encountered three-fingered beings.

If it turns out to be the case that genetic experimentation is indicated in the ancient dehydrated specimens brought out of that cave in Nazca, future discoveries in other regions of earth might also indicate genetic experimentation in the deep past. Whether that experimentation was done by an et species or an earlier, more highly developed species evolved on earth is an open question. Experimentation attempting to cross-breed different species of life on earth might account for extant megalithic sculptures discovered in the Middle East of half-human/half-other-animal representations. Some examples included in this google image page:

paleolithic half-human, half-animal art - Google Search

 

[Walter Bosley]

"It's been pointed out in one of these internet discussion forums that humanoid beings with three-fingered hands occur in many ancient cave paintings in South America and elsewhere."

Thus, what better detail to include when constructing a hoax mummy...

 

[Constance]

"It's been pointed out in one of these internet discussion forums that humanoid beings with three-fingered hands occur in many ancient cave paintings in South America and elsewhere."

Thus, what better detail to include when constructing a hoax mummy...

Sure. But we still have to wonder what inspired paleolithic and megalithic artists to draw and sculpt so many cross-species figures. Archaeologists have long fallen back on shamanic altered-states as a possible explanation. But were shamans customarily also artists? So much we don't know.

 

[Constance]

 

[Greers Meeting Planner]

So i think they have taken a hypothesis as to how life formed here on earth,

Nope. They found a way to create ribonucleotides. That is not life.

It goes on to say "a kind of organic snow which could accumulate as a reservoir of material ready for the next step in RNA synthesis."

Notice the word "could".

If genesis is created in a lab here A. It will be all over the news, nobel prizes etc B. It will still need to be shown it could happen without technological intervention

The chemistry involved to make life naturally has been compared to a hurricane blowing through a junk yard and leaving a 747 finished jet after randomly shaking everything up. Science has work to do here.

The arguments for life in the universe are really based on the vastness of space, e.g. it must be out there somewhere. But this is a weak argument if we don't know what circumstances bring genesis to be. We could be the only example, or it could be so unlikely that we would never realistically find where and when it happened elsewhere.

 

[Red]

I don't feel comfortable automatically assuming the presence of 3 fingered subject in ancient art automatically points to the idea of an alien presence or of a separate species. There may simply be some mythological significance to them. Also, as a former fine arts major, hands are one of the most difficult parts of the anatomy to master (many artists still struggle), it may have been a stylistic choice by an early artist, based on the limitations of the materials they were using, that was then copied. To give you a modern day comparison, cartoons, animation and print, often portray hands with 4 fingers and not five, because 4-fingered hands are much, much easier to draw and animate convincingly. I don't think it's a cop-out to at least consider some more mundane reasons before we go on to consider more exotic options.

As for the diversity of artistic expression in early humans, we don't know and can't know the entirety of the mindset of early humans because they didn't leave a written record, it may be that they didn't really see themselves distinctly separate from the animals they hunted and interacted with, in that we all are creatures of bone, flesh and skin. In Sumer and Akkadia, I'm more apt to give Julian Jaynes' theory credit, in that he felt that early language triggered a pre-consciousness state of audio and visual hallucinations resulting in the art work that @Constance has posted in this thread. As language advanced, the left hemisphere became dominant and we become conscious which, according to Jaynes, give us the ability for introspection and abstract thinking that can lead to things like higher mathematics.

 

[Constance]

Here is the online transcript of discussions by major scientists and schoolars from various disciplines at an Edge summer symposium entitled "Life: What a Concept," much of which can help us sort out the issues and problems involved in understanding the appearance of life on our planet and the reasons we have to suppose that this has occurred elsewhere, on uncountable planets, in the known cosmos. You can access the presentations of these 7 or 8 scientist/scholars in video or in written forms. I found what DIMITAR SASSELOV had to say to be especially interesting.

His brief bio: He is "Professor of Astronomy at Harvard University and Director, Harvard Origins of Life Initiative. Most recently his research has led him to explore the nature of planets orbiting other stars. Using novel techniques, he has discovered a few such planets [Sasselov is especially interested in 'superearths], and his hope is to use these techniques to find planets like Earth. He is the founder and director of the new Harvard Origins of Life Initiative, a multidisciplinary center bridging scientists in the physical and in the life sciences, intent to study the transition from chemistry to life and its place in the context of the Universe."

Life: What A Concept! | Edge.org

 

[mike]

Nope. They found a way to create ribonucleotides. That is not life.

That's just one experiment and opinions differ

"What we've found could be relevant to how life begins, at that key moment when Darwinian evolution starts," Joyce said in a statement.

Joyce's restraint, clear also on an NPR report of the finding, has to be appreciated. He allows that some scientists familiar with the work have argued that this is life. Another scientist said that what the researchers did is equivalent to recreating a scenario that might have led to the origin of life.

One experiment shows that the molecules can be created from chemicals, The next experiment used those chemicals to create synthetic life

Dr Craig Venter, and his team have managed to make a completely new "synthetic" life form from a mix of chemicals.
They manufactured a new chromosome from artificial DNA in a test tube, then transferred it into an empty cell and watched it multiply – the very definition of being alive.
The man-made single cell "creature", which is a modified version of one of the simplest bacteria on earth, proves that the technology works.

Not only that they created "alien life" in that they added two new "letters"

For billions of years, the history of life has been written with just four letters — A, T, C and G, the labels given to the DNA subunits contained in all organisms. That alphabet has just grown longer, researchers announce, with the creation of a living cell that has two 'foreign' DNA building blocks in its genome.

The addition of just two foreign DNA 'letters' would vastly expand a cell’s ability to encode new amino acids. “If you read a book that was written with four letters, you’re not going to be able to tell many interesting stories,” Romesberg says. “If you’re given more letters, you can invent new words, you can find new ways to use those words and you can probably tell more interesting stories.”

Have we created life ? by the definitions of create and life, Scientists say yes we have.

Have we recreated genesis ?

That's a gray area.

The origin of life might seem like the ultimate cold case: no one was there to observe it and much of the relevant evidence has been lost in the intervening 3.5 billion years or so. Nonetheless, many separate lines of evidence do shed light on this event, and as biologists continue to investigate these data, they are slowly piecing together a picture of how life originated. Major lines of evidence include DNA, biochemistry, and experiments.

Experiments can help scientists figure out how the molecules involved in the RNA world arose. These experiments serve as "proofs of concept" for hypotheses about steps in the origin of life — in other words, if a particular chemical reaction happens in a modern lab under conditions similar to those on early Earth, the same reaction could have happened on early Earth and could have played a role in the origin of life. The 1953 Miller-Urey experiment, for example, simulated early Earth's atmosphere with nothing more than water, hydrogen, ammonia, and methane and an electrical charge standing in for lightning, and produced complex organic compounds like amino acids. Now, scientists have learned more about the environmental and atmospheric conditions on early Earth and no longer think that the conditions used by Miller and Urey were quite right. However, since Miller and Urey, many scientists have performed experiments using more accurate environmental conditions and exploring alternate scenarios for these reactions. These experiments yielded similar results - complex molecules could have formed in the conditions on early Earth.

All the evidence gathered thus far has revealed a great deal about the origin of life, but there is still much to learn. Because of the enormous length of time and the tremendous change that has occurred since then, much of the evidence relevant to origins has been lost and we may never know certain details. Nevertheless, many of the gaps in our knowledge (gaps that seemed unbridgeable just 20 years ago) have been filled in recent years, and continuing research and new technologies hold the promise of more insights. As Ellington puts it, "Origins is a huge knotty problem — but that doesn't mean it's an insoluble one."

A knotty problem...

Now as to life elsewhere.
I like to look at parallels. We know it happened here, the earth is teeming with life.
The model where we know it works is a planet orbiting a star.

A team of astronomers today has announced they have come to a startling conclusion: Roughly one in five Sun-like stars should have Earth-like planets orbiting them.


When they were done, they found that 22 percent of Sun-like stars have Earth-like planets.

That’s pretty amazing. The galaxy must be full of planets like ours! In fact, if you look at how many stars like this are nearby, you find that, statistically speaking, the nearest such Earth-like planet may be only 12 light years away! Again, that’s just what the odds are. Still, there are well over 100 Sun-like stars within 50 light years, so the chance of a few of them having Earth-like planets seems pretty high.

Astro-news: One in Five Sun-like Stars Should Have Earth-like Planets!

In conclusion:

The model (star with planets) within which life came into being here on earth is reasonably common.
We know that the building blocks of life can come together in a lab under certain conditions, giving proof of concept to a working hypothesis of how it started here.
We know at least two nucleic acids other than the 4 that are in every life form here can be used in the process.

There is no proof either way, i cant claim there is life elsewhere and you cant claim there isn't.

But i think its more likely given what we know , that it does.

 

[Walter Bosley]

The next thing we're going to hear is: "It's OK that these hoaxers keep getting the attention they get for their fakes because, golly, it gets people talking about the subject!"

Like screaming "Fire!" in a crowded theater to inspire discussion about the nature of fire or fire alarms or fire sales.

 

[William Strathmann]

Regarding origin of life: I think it would be interesting to have Paul Davies as a guest on the Paracast. He's employed at Arizona State University. ASU Cosmos Who knows? He might accept an invitation.

Davies is a theoretical physicist, cosmologist, astrobiologist, SETI post-detection task group chair, is working on cancer biology, and is a friend of Stephen Hawking and Lawrence Krauss, among others. Davies says that as far as he's concerned the origin of life question is still very much open, one way or the other, with no proof, yet, of an actual chemical pathway here on earth for the spontaneous generation of life from inert chemicals. Thus, in the vid, here, he states that earth may be the only place in the universe with life, and every place else, even earth-like planets in supposed goldilocks zones, are devoid of life. He hopes otherwise, but he says the evidence, so far, does not prove anything one way or the other.

Davies also says in the following vid that he knew J. Allen Hynek, and that he has considered UFO reports. He says he does not think that UFO reports are of actual E.T. interstellar visitors simply because the beings reported are so grossly humanoid. In some other video Davies has said that he has suffered from sleep paralysis episodes, which he does not believe are alien abduction.

 

[Han]

Coincidentally I have just found this article:

Australia human history 'rewritten by rock find'
Australia human history 'rewritten by rock find' - BBC News

"The team found pieces of reflective art minerals such as mica wrapped around ground ochre, along with a slab covered in red ochre that was mixed with mica."

"It really tells us that people were heavily into artistic activity," Associate Prof Clarkson said.


Anyway I think that too much emphasis is put on 'literalist' interpretations of 'abstract' work.
People want to treat cave paintings etc as blue prints or scientific formulae, but they are not that and were never intended to be, they are not anatomical studies.
It is impossible to determine exactly what the artist was trying to convey when they put paint to stone, but you can get some hint of the complexed ideas and concepts they were thinking about.

The same ideas and concepts we are still debating today, in this very thread even.
(Where we come from, and who we are etc.)

All I can say is that I wish that the Peruvian Mummies mentioned in this thread, had been excavated and treated like the artifacts from the Australian Dig I linked.
Then we would be discussing the 'find' rather than who found it.

Jaime's name alone should sound alarm bells, especially people on a forum like this, where all of the posters know about the massive problem with hoaxing and hoaxers in Ufology.

He also has 'form' in terms of 'Creative Taxidermy'.

 

[Swamp Gas]

Admittedly this mummy seems too good to be true.

That said, reading quickly through the thread, Constance stands out as level headed. One who does not easily fall prey to self-righteous, ad hominem and prejudicial attacks of the people involved. But rather looks at the facts so far reported. Good for you Constance for showing those rare signs of genuine sanity.

As far as we know -- from what has been reported from those organizing and doing the scientific tests and inspection such as microscopic, DNA, Xray and MRI, there is as yet no sign of fakery. But no conclusion yet.

For some, it's OK to realize we do not know everything; and it feels nice to holster our egos and just quietly watch the show. As is often the case, there will be clowns. Long live the clowns.