Nick Pope on The Paracast

[Live at the Witch Trials]

So, from my point of view, after every show there is always a group of people who come on the threads WHINING that everyone does not bow down in worship to another spell-binding episode of enlightenment. Supplicating lap dogs salivating over the threads is just as disgusting as nonsensical, ill-founded criticism.

Now Now Be Nice !

 

[Live at the Witch Trials]

If you read my post correctley I said " Whinging" not "whining" so your dictionary definitions dont stand up as your clearly looking up the wrong word !

Also Whinging Is like ART when Its done for Its own sake Its repetetive and Dull.

 

[schticknz]

The only guy I couldn't undeerstand was the one from Scotland!

Well ... I lived in Scotland for about 10 years (1983-1994 ... give or take a day or two), and by the end of it I was pretty good at understanding what Scottish people were saying at me

Anyway if you truly want to test out your Scottish-understandable-ness-ness powers try the Glaswegian accent. Bugger me its hard to get through without 'kissing' the Glaswegian in the process.

Ramble ... ramble ... ramble.

Soo ... before being pulled arm from arm and leg by vast quantities of Scottish people ... try this for a taste of the Glaswegian accent:

This is a clip of the great Rab C. Nesbitt (played by the great Gregor Fisher) ... a sort of Glaswegian (very) working class drunk philosopher. Apparently bits of the 'sitcom' "Rab C Nesbitt" were shown in the US many years ago ... with additional subtitles, I seem to remember.

Anyway this is Rab at the dole office ranting and raving (originally from the Naked Video tv series, methinks):

Oh and for UK viewers ... apparently there is a Rab C Nesbitt special coming out soon. You lucky people you .

 

[macavity]

I haven't been the biggest fan of Nick Pope over the years, often suspecting him of having a fairly unsophisticated nuts & bolts view of ufology. This was by far the best interview I've ever heard with him, though - he seemed a lot more mature in his outlook than I'd heard before. Thanks to Gene and David for getting him on and thanks to Nick for doing the interview.

Personally I'd much rather listen to someone who's honest enough to say "I don't know what's going on" than a sensationalist nutjob anyday...

 

[Brian Now]

I liked this interview. I wasn't as disappointed with Pope as some people on the forums, but maybe that's because I'm not all that interested in him. I'm interested in how governments deal with unexplained things in the sky and, in that light, Pope has something interesting to say. I was actually more interested in David's shift of tone with Pope than anything else . Seems David might have been feeling the same things I was.

Maybe I am missing something about him by not reading his books, but seems he's got nothing new to offer and probably never will. He can only ride his past credentials for a finite period of time (but in the ufology that could be 30 years though!).
Regardless, I am glad to see a sane, rational person in ufology.

 

[Live at the Witch Trials]

I found it interesting to hear that he went to the David Icke lecture at Hammersmith.

I wanted to go to that myself.

 

[Rocketsauce]

I enjoyed the show and more than anything I really thought David asked some great questions!

The Randlesham psych operation question was great, very interesting that Nick has an opinion on how those are normally run I tend to think Vallee made a lot of sense on this. I don't think Nick's justification that it wasn't a psych op because it got out to other departments means much of anything.

I'm probably more confused than ever about Nick. I think it's still completely possible he still works in intelligence and his job is to get this into the public sphere in a certain way while gauging the attitude of others in both the field and general public. But it's equally possible that he is a quirky English bureaucrat who does not want to speculate or go against his security oath.

After reading account after account from credible people about being told not to talk about this stuff, IMO there is just no way that some organization, whether it's american black projects or something else doesn't have more information than we currently have, so for Nick who appears to be informed on this topic to not believe anyone has any more info or there is any coverup seems far fetched to me.

Even if some group just has more in depth info about what happened at Roswell at the least that is more than what we have. So I'm suspicious when Nick says he does not think there is a cover-up and is adament about his government knowing nothing more than we do. Perhaps his government doesn't know exactly what the phenomena is and Nick's job is to get that out there?? I'm tempted to listen to the interview again because there were certain ideas that Nick was very intense on, particularly at the end when David said he thought the governments don't know much, Nick really jumped on that one.

Maybe the stuff he is allowed to talk about really says something in light of what he doesn't say?

If Nick indeed makes a living as a freelance journalist, I would be interested in checking out his income tax statment to see how much money he makes as a freelancer and then do a Lexus Nexis search and see how many articles he has actually written. If it doesn't match up, perhaps he has "other" income sources or perhaps I"m just thinking way too much!!!!!

 

[Grokl]

Hmmmm. A little bit disappointed with Nick. BTW did you guys know hes spent 21 years in GOVT? 21 years!

Ok, I understand theres some things he cant talk about, but seriously you dont have to say WHERE the nuclear bases are.... just indicate whether or not there has been UFO activity associated with them! (which obviously there has or would have denied it I think).

Also, why the hell cant he talk about some strange things hes heard 'on the down low' back stage at a conference after a few drinks? What the bleep has that got to do with his former role in GOVT? NOTHING, thats what.

There was something else he declined to comment on too that I thought was BS, but I cant remember what it was.

I actually agree. I thought Nick was a little...um... "bland" and a lot of this he was just repeating directly like other interviews he's done. He also was way too "careful" when asked some certain questions (or diverted them). The "21 years government" drill answer kept reminding me of a certain "i'm just a simple small town country doctor" that repeats it over, and over, and over - again.

 

[Apocalypto]

Nick isn't exactly the most eclectic, dynamic guest, but he is smart. His style is a bit too sterile for my taste, but he is entertaining in an intellectual way. In this crazy world of mysterious phenomena, it takes all kinds to tell the story, doesn't it?

For those of you wanting something a little more colorful, Dr. Greer is on the line...

 

[fitzbew88]

Why 1812, pardon my ignorance

Why, the War of 1812 of course.

Doggone Britishers burned down our White House. Made President Madison cry.

We rebuilt it.
Made it better than it was.
Stronger. Faster.
Cost about $6 million USD.

Added a bowling alley.

 

[Bits Missing]

For what it is worth I will add my pinch of salt to the Nick Pope pot as well.

I was very interested in hearing the interview because there have been numerous times on the show when Pope had been refered to in passing as in the genuine search camp rather than the loony fringe and that he had a fair bit of respect on the "circuit". My previous exposure to him had been very "tabloid" with him popping up in the UK media to add a bit of credibility when "green men/flying saucer" stories were given the usual hysterical spin.

Well, having now listened, he came across much better than I had previously seen him but I do understand why many of you were a bit disappointed in him.

Perhaps some additional context might help you to understand why he was very straight down the line:

His actual exposure on the UFO desk would not have been the indepth experience you might expect. Yes he would have seen files, many of them Classified, yes he would have investigated or researched to a degree, but a high proportion of the work is likely to have been at a low level, and mainly cataloging incidences. At his level, which given his biography I assess to have been the equivalent of a Higher Executive officer (HEO) as he was later promoted out of the role (to SEO equiv) and left the MOD when he passed the assessment for a Grade 7 role. HEO is considered low level management (AA, AO, EO, HEO, SEO, G7, Senior Civil Service) and he would have had very little latitude to take forward decision making, policy, or pursue individual research or projects. The role would've been quite a bit more than the file clerk someone mentioned earlier but certainly not the key to unlocking UFO mysteries and conspiracies.

Where he does know more (and he will have seen some more juicy stuff), this will be classified, and should he reveal it he would end up being prosecuted, and potentially in jail. The Official Secrets Act does not mess about ladies and gentlemen and individuals are bound for life by its terms as Siani mentioned earlier. This is why he only refers to papers that the MOD have released. He skipped the one on Nuclear facilities for specifically this reason - I imagine that any thing to do with nuclear matters has a classification of some sort.

Do I think he was just a front office for the UFO research, whilst conspiracies and god knows what else was carried on elsewhere? No, I honestly don't think that the UK government has the capacity to do so - as I've heard Gene or David say before, that the public gives too much credence to the ability of the authorities to govern us effectively let alone conspire and conjure.

All of that aside, I think Nick Pope is an asset of sorts to the field, he offers credibility to what some consider a fringe subject, he doesn't pretend to know all the answers, and can answer questions intelligently (even if 21 years in got allowed him to perfect the Civil Servant Swerve and Spin). I think it is good to have him around as ballast even if we are not going to get anything new out of him. Sensible voices are few and far between in this world of Greertown and Adamskiville!

Lastly, why does he not discredit others in the field? Well Nick took a decision to leave secure and gainful employment in government service to pursue a fleeting opportunity. He has done well to exploit and extend his intial profile as "the real Fox Mulder" this long, and once he made that break unfortunately he has had to fix his income within this field.

He's joined the UFO circus, and he's pitched his UFO tent, but as well as professional performers such as himself, he also has to be nice to the clowns, or there will be no more circus for him!

(By the way Gene and David, I do think that Nick would make an excellent round table guest when just shooting the breeze on UFO issues, or interviewing others)

 

[NNN]

Expectations are a bit like assumptions; they are easily nothing to do with reality.

Nick Pope's level-headed view, while not being sensational and tantalising, is one which will add to the likelihood that the UFO discussion will become more widely respected and more a part of mainstream events.

This is something which many of the people who are interested in UFOs definitely want.

Definition of whinge(Chambers Dictionary): To complain irritably

Local definition of whinge(NNN's Dictionary): To complain unnecessarily or inappropriately and at too great a length

And, " Oi'm frerm Noooorfurk ern' I dern't soun' loike Nick oither!"

 

[rpjmartin]

Where he does know more (and he will have seen some more juicy stuff), this will be classified, and should he reveal it he would end up being prosecuted, and potentially in jail. The Official Secrets Act does not mess about ladies and gentlemen and individuals are bound for life by its terms as Siani mentioned earlier. This is why he only refers to papers that the MOD have released. He skipped the one on Nuclear facilities for specifically this reason - I imagine that any thing to do with nuclear matters has a classification of some sort.

Undoubtely Nick Pope has signed the Official Secrets Act. It is a very strict piece of legislation as regards unauthorised disclosures. If he were to discuss UFO incidents near UK nuclear sites without seeking prior approval, he could be prosecuted just like Katharine Gunn at GCHQ. Presumably this information is still classified and not up for public discussion right now.

But...what is interesting is that I have never heard any references to UFO incidents involving UK nuclear facilities. I can't recall any mention of such incidents at all. Where did David and Gene get the idea for that question?

Do I think he was just a front office for the UFO research, whilst conspiracies and god knows what else was carried on elsewhere? No, I honestly don't think that the UK government has the capacity to do so - as I've heard Gene or David say before, that the public gives too much credence to the ability of the authorities to govern us effectively let alone conspire and conjure.

The story went that there was a lodger unit at RAF Rudloe Manor that looked at UFO reports, at least until the 1970s. And Nick worked on the AS2 (air staff) desk I think. So did he work with or know about this unit, if they still existed? This also doesn't rule out the RN and British Army having seperate, independent investigations. Not too mention SIS, GCHQ, and so on.

Nick Pope may well believe there was no parallel UFO projects, but if he did not have a need to know, then its existence would simply be denied to him.

Whether these Rudloe Manor records form part of the recent MoD releases I don't know. What we see in many declassified files is just sightings reports, there is precious little analytics or conclusions. So where is this stuff? There is, AFAIK, nothing in those files above Secret. I think it would be naive for me to believe that nothing is held at a higher level of classification.

If you doubt the ability of governments to conspire, just cast your mind back to the criminal faking of evidence to take us into perpetual war in the Middle East and Asia. Of course governments can keep secrets, they wouldn't be able to function properly unless they withheld some information. Most diplomatic/intergovt information is routinely secret and will never see the light of day. The Americans may have an easier time getting accountability from their government but they've had their share of proven conspiracies too - Watergate and Iran-Contra come to mind.

Sorry to bang on but lets not kid ourselves that governments can't keep secrets. The British govt has historically been very opaque. Until the FOIA came into force, we had to be content with the publication of a few selected historical documents every January 1st under the 30 year rule.