Nick Pope Show May 23 2010

[Xylo]

I've just finished the show, and as usual I am replying to a thread well after it has run it's course, or at the very least during the end-game of the thread.

I think Nick Pope is an interesting guest, to say the least, but also one that frustrates me. I would love to have him be released from his oaths, more to hear what the MOD doesn't know than to hear what they do know. But that's just me, I guess.

On another podcast I listen to, there was an aerospace junkie as a guest. A great deal of what he said about various aircraft platforms and systems is absolutely fascinating- but as far as I can tell it is also unverifiable without the proper contacts. But I digress, as usual.

I'm at a point right now, in my exploration into this unknown subject, where I feel that no matter how much talk I listen to, no matter how intelligently the subject is discussed, it just feels like the general knowledge about this subject is not advancing at all. There are many good cases out there which makes it frustrating to the armchair researcher (like myself) when there are only more questions, and no answers. The whole field seems stagnant-not because there aren't any new (or good) cases, but because there are no new answers. This is an endeavor in which the data are few, and the frauds are many.

I guess what I'm saying is that no matter which guests come on, nor how compelling the interview, at the end of the podcast I'm still scratching my head.

 

[Apocalypto]

Well, here's one crime we know Israel carried out. I, for one, am sick of Israel's disgusting crimes. First they do the Gaza slaughter (and get away with it, of course) and now this.

They're acting towards the Palestinians a hell of a lot like the Nazis acted towards them.

Israel attacks aid flotilla in international waters – at least 2 people murdered, 30 injured

Murderers.

 

[dyingsun]

Well, here's one crime we know Israel carried out. I, for one, am sick of Israel's disgusting crimes. First they do the Gaza slaughter (and get away with it, of course) and now this.

They're acting towards the Palestinians a hell of a lot like the Nazis acted towards them.

Israel attacks aid flotilla in international waters – at least 2 people murdered, 30 injured

Murderers.

This won't end well...

 

[Paul Kimball]

Well, here's one crime we know Israel carried out. I, for one, am sick of Israel's disgusting crimes. First they do the Gaza slaughter (and get away with it, of course) and now this.

They're acting towards the Palestinians a hell of a lot like the Nazis acted towards them.

Israel attacks aid flotilla in international waters – at least 2 people murdered, 30 injured

Murderers.

Comparing Israel in any way to the Nazis is so far over the top as to diminish the worth of your ovrall point. Also, when complaining about "Israel's disgusting crimes" it would be nice to see some even-handedness... you know, talking about the crimes and terrorism of Hamas et al? Just sayin'...

Having said that, while I usually give Israel the benefit of the doubt, because they're in a tough part of the world, surrounded by a lot of people who would be happy to see them pushed into the sea, their forces have crossed a line this time from all appearances.

"Had they really wanted to deliver the cargo into Gaza they could have done so via Israel as it is done on a daily basis." - Israeli military spokesperson

Yes, and if you had really wanted to stop them, you could have done so peacefully.

Shameful.

 

[dyingsun]

I normally refrain from posting in any thread that concerns Israel simply because of my countries past...I have two Israelian friends though, who dislike the course of action 'against' the palestinians as much as I do.

 

[Paul Kimball]

I normally refrain from posting in any thread that concerns Israel simply because of my countries past...I have two Israelian friends though, who dislike the course of action 'against' the palestinians as much as I do.

I normally refrain, because I find trying to have a political discussion with an anonymous poster, whom I don't know, is a waste of time (not talking about anyone in particular here - just in general). But I made an exception this time, as a one-off post, because we discussed anti-Semitism within the paranormal on the show, and Israel was mentioned briefly.

Paul

 

[dyingsun]

I'm Marco, Paul After being through germanies higher education, let me tell you that WW2 is still a major point in history classes.

 

[Paul Kimball]

I'm Marco, Paul After being through germanies higher education, let me tell you that WW2 is still a major point in history classes.

Hi Marco,

As well it should be. I wrote my major paper in law school on the Nurmeburg Trials, and my honours thesis in history on the origins of the war, and have studied the war and the Nazis in particular for as long as I can recall. A girlfriend once asked me why I had so many books about them on my bookshelves in college - she was a bit concerned. I told her that I wanted to understand how evil like that could happen, so that I could help make sure it never happened again. I was greener then, but I remain an idealist now.

This incident needs to be fully investigated, especially if it occurred in international waters. If excessive force was used (and that seems pretty clear at first blush), then we should insist on criminal prosecutions for those involved. That's the incident-specific response. The broader issue is what to do about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It's time for our governments in the West to take a truly even-handed approach, and work as honest brokers for peace. We owe it to the Israelis because of what we let happen to the Jews in WWII, and we owe it the Palestinians because of what we've let happen to them since.

My solution has always been for a US president to sit down and force the Israelis to accept the two state solution, with pre-1967 borders (and no right of return for the Palestinians - everyone is going to have to compromise) - and back it up with a NATO-guaranteed mutual defence pact that binds us to defend Israel and guarantee its borders, and a G8 funded aid package that will allow the Palestinians to build a viable state.

 

[dyingsun]

Very nicely said, Paul.

I still feel a little sting though if I would blame Israel for an actual war crime....I better shut up right now...

 

[Paul Kimball]

Very nicely said, Paul.

I still feel a little sting though if I would blame Israel for an actual war crime....I better shut up right now...

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I have no problem with letting people know what I think of guys like Jeff Rense, who hides what I believe is anti-Semitism under the cloak of just being anti-Zionist. Conversely, I have no problem calling a spade a spade when the Israelis go too far - nor would I have any problem doing it with Canadian troops, or American troops... or, in the case of George Bush or Tony Blair, individual leaders.

 

[cottonzway]

I normally refrain, because I find trying to have a political discussion with an anonymous poster, whom I don't know, is a waste of time (not talking about anyone in particular here - just in general).
Paul

That just seems like a pretty weird comment to make from a message board. Why would a poltical topic be a wate of time with a stranger and not a paranormal topic? Are we all wasting our time then?

I agree with you on Rense. On top of that his haircut looks absurd.

 

[pixelsmith]

I normally refrain, because I find trying to have a political discussion with an anonymous poster, whom I don't know, is a waste of time (not talking about anyone in particular here - just in general). But I made an exception this time, as a one-off post, because we discussed anti-Semitism within the paranormal on the show, and Israel was mentioned briefly.

Paul

I also find this comment strange. You have no problem voicing your political views to ALL of us "anonymous" people here. Just sayin....

 

[1stEarthBattalion]

Has anyone asked Nick what his collegues thought of his views while he was at the Ministry of Defence - the UFO pidgeon hole in main building. It would be interesting if there was a disclosure movement in the UK. Also who is vetting the records being sent to Kew and who decides what gets blanked out on the documents (there is also a little discussed technique of using post it notes with torn edges and photo copying to obscure sections.

Nick if you get to read this you have to keep helping all the service men that have had there sightings and contacts ridiculed by throwing the evidence at those who mock.

 

[Mike Chung]

I don't think there's much you can do about it. Perhaps I'm a bit jaded, having heard him 5 - 6 times.

 

[Kevin Daly]

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I have no problem with letting people know what I think of guys like Jeff Rense, who hides what I believe is anti-Semitism under the cloak of just being anti-Zionist. Conversely, I have no problem calling a spade a spade when the Israelis go too far - nor would I have any problem doing it with Canadian troops, or American troops... or, in the case of George Bush or Tony Blair, individual leaders.

Well said...and now I'm going to annoy everybody.
I would also add that Bush and Blair are personally responsible for every atrocity committed in their little war of choice (including that young girl who was raped and then murdered along with her family), because once you unleash the beast (war) atrocities always follow. I just needed to say that.
It became obvious to me years ago that Rense and his friends were a bunch of vile little anti-Semites (very fond of the "conspiracy of international bankers" smokescreen that I think Nick mentioned and got criticised for...but that IS code among the nutters for "International Jewish Conspiracy" exactly as he said). I remember the distinct feeling of needing a shower after visiting Rense's web site.
It is also obvious that Zionism as practised today by Israel is a racist/religiously bigoted philosphy that is sustained by hatred, fear and contempt of The Other (and yes, the loonies in Hamas and their ilk obligingly provide plenty of ammunition). Israel accuses the rest of the world of double standards (and implicitly anti-Semitism) for daring to criticise it, while being built on a double-standard: where else do Western countries consider it legitimate for nationhood to be based on a mixture of religious and ethnic identity? Israel has a right to exist, but only because it does exist: the notion that you have the right to found a state in a territory because people of the same religion (and to some extent ethnic group, but remember converts have had the "right of return" too if they could prove they weren't faking it) occupied roughly the same territory a couple of millennia in the past is patently ridiculous.
But Israel now does exist...and by virtue of that fact and nothing else has a right to exist. But to be able to claim with a straight face to be "the only real democracy in the Middle East" as Israel often does, it would need to be a truly secular and ethnicity-blind state, which it patently is not (hint: the phrase "Jewish State". This has no more or less validity democratic credential-wise than "Islamic Republic"). But even that could be taken as simply another example of an imperfect world were it not for the all too common brutality and indifference to suffering (and no it doesn't help to say "What about the other side?"...because people committing terrorist acts are um, terrorists. That means criminals = we expect them to be bad people. Nation states are supposed to follow a different standard).
In conclusion (before the villagers with flaming torches and pitchforks show up) it appears that thuggery has proven to be humanity's most successful means of reproducing ideas (since thugs create more thugs, ad infinitum), and the Middle East despite the vast promise and creativity of all its peoples now amounts to little more than the final proof that "An Eye For An Eye" leads inevitably to "another eye for another eye till everyone is blind" (to steal a line from the song There Were Roses, in case anyone's interested).
So basically, the human race are a bunch of tits.

 

[Paul Kimball]

I would also add that Bush and Blair are personally responsible for every atrocity committed in their little war of choice (including that young girl who was raped and then murdered along with her family), because once you unleash the beast (war) atrocities always follow. I just needed to say that.

I don't believe that leaders are personally responsible for crimes committed during a legal war (yes, there is such a thing), provided of course that they did not directly order those crimes to be committed. However, if the war in and of itself is illegal, as I believe the second Iraq war was, then the leaders who ordered the war are liable, not for individual war crimes that may have been committed during the course of the war, but rather for crimes against peace. Bush and Blair, in a just world, would be in the dock at the International Criminal Court to answer the same charges that the Nazis did in 1945 of having waged an unjustifed, aggressive and illegal war.

 

[1stEarthBattalion]

I don't believe that leaders are personally responsible for crimes committed during a legal war (yes, there is such a thing), provided of course that they did not directly order those crimes to be committed. However, if the war in and of itself is illegal, as I believe the second Iraq war was, then the leaders who ordered the war are liable, not for individual war crimes that may have been committed during the course of the war, but rather for crimes against peace. Bush and Blair, in a just world, would be in the dock at the International Criminal Court to answer the same charges that the Nazis did in 1945 of having waged an unjustifed, aggressive and illegal war.

Victors do not commit atrocities.

Anyway to bring this back to Nick Pope. The guy spent 3 years in the UK's 'X files' department and has no conclusion about whether UFO's exist - he brings up the forest case as interesting but does not fight for more disclosure - jeez , if you tred in it and it smells of poo, tastes of poo, and feels like poo then it is poo. If no conclusion can be made by someone with every available piece of UK evidence at their fingertips for three years what chance do we have.



You people remember when the new collider broke and they blamed a seagull dropping a piece of baguette http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/05/lhc_bread_bomb_dump_incident/ so if they can pin point that cause why are UFO’s still so elusive.<O></O>
Maybe there aren’t any or we haven’t got the faintest idea on how to explain any of it.<O></O>