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Nick Redfern's New Book Sounds Intriguing!

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The Karla Turner family story is an interesting one and hard to just dismiss out of hand. I'm not saying one thing or another about the abduction experience, I'm just saying as difficult as her story is to believe, it is also as hard to just dismiss as a hoax, neurosis, or a practical joke. Humans abductors as well as 'greys' are involved in her story. She alludes to a 'demonic' origin for the aliens as well.
 
Can someone please explain to me why we ought to give a crap about a bunch of bible-thumpers that happen to have a definitive opinion on the ETH hypothesis?

No disrespect to NR - I think he's a fine researcher and maintains a solid attitude towards his field of study - but am I the only one who thinks we're giving these people too much credit? Why should we care any more about their opinion than the people in the church van on Sunday morning...?
 
jimbo83478 said:
Can someone please explain to me why we ought to give a crap about a bunch of bible-thumpers that happen to have a definitive opinion on the ETH hypothesis?

No disrespect to NR - I think he's a fine researcher and maintains a solid attitude towards his field of study - but am I the only one who thinks we're giving these people too much credit? Why should we care any more about their opinion than the people in the church van on Sunday morning...?
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Because some folks are so scared of the caracature of the hollywood version of the "evil" evangelicals taking over the country and making liberalism a crime. Honestly, if it isn't "w" and the cons digging up enemies it's the so called "progressives" digging up enemies to keep people on edge and cutting one another. There is no more chance of the "bible belt" taking over than there is the gay rights movement or the Nazi youth or the Black Panthers. We need to start demanding 'responsibiltiy of both our polical parties" Instead we tilt at windmills and bash Christians who in turn bash gays who in turn worry that straights will deprive em of rights who in turn think blacks are gullibile and play the race card who in turn think all whites are out to get em who in turn...Blah,blah, blah!

Meanwhile, the politicans both conservative and liberal marshall up their little minions (idiot voters) who can't think for themselves outside of a two minute soundbite.
 
jimbo83478 said:
Can someone please explain to me why we ought to give a crap about a bunch of bible-thumpers that happen to have a definitive opinion on the ETH hypothesis?

No disrespect to NR - I think he's a fine researcher and maintains a solid attitude towards his field of study - but am I the only one who thinks we're giving these people too much credit? Why should we care any more about their opinion than the people in the church van on Sunday morning...?
Click to expand...

There are a few reasons to give a crap about guys in Redfern's book.

Foremost is the apparent fact that these people had positions of influence.

If I knew someone who believed in demons or thought the Biblical end of the world was a good thing...I'd be worried and likely stay away from them. If someone I knew believed that Crowley was more than just an anti-social misfit bullshitter with the ability to 'open portals' and whatever else...I wouldn't take them seriously.

It's not really about taking these guys seriously, but it's worth considering the mind-sets of some elements on the side-lines of power and influence. Nick's book has generated a lot of thought about how screwed-up beliefs are rife in the halls of power. It's also reinvigorated the discussion of what UFOs are...or are not...or could be.

Usually, the bed-wetting believers in demons and evil influences are random folk on the internet. They live in forums and we can just ignore them. The difference here is that the Collins Elite and their beliefs sought to influence the society and foreign policies of the USA.

Imagine non-elected people in power with ideas that total war was a sensible fulfilment of Biblical prophecy? That's scary shit and one of the reasons why Redfern's book is worth the discussion.
 
Kandinsky said:
Foremost is the apparent fact that these people had positions of influence.
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BINGO!

A companion to Nick's book would be, as has been mentioned in the thread before I think, The Family by Jeff Sharlet. It should scare the crap right out of you and if it doesn't, if religious insanity in high places doesn't give you pause to think, you aren't thinking this through, IMHO.
 
hmmm....yes indeed. Though, relatively speaking, many people in high places possess one type of insanity or another...so, personally, I'm not really convinced they're any more important than the rest of the lot. I suppose if it was clear that they really have influence then I might think more of their opinions, because from all I can tell they seem pretty innocuous. Is it evident that they, in fact, are pushing buttons in high places?
 
trainedobserver said:
I was talking about people reporting "Greys" specifically. If you really look at them no two accounts draw or describe the "Greys" in the same way really. The things people describe only resemble each other in a general way and often details are contradictory. What does that indicate I wonder?
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Look at the differences among our own species, that only differ by less than one percent in our DNA.
 
I'm about 40 pages into Final Events. I have known some of the background on Parsons and Crowley for years. I have to say that the historical record on these kinds of things is frustratingly sparse and ambiguous. There is Crowley's confusing reference to having drawn the 'grey-like' being LAM "from life," which supposedly occurred during the Amalantrah working, but there seems to be no reference to such a creature in the records of the Amalantrah working (rather, there is reference to a bearded wizard named Amalantrah).

In addition, perusing these sorts of "magical records" is a frustrating exercise. They seem to usually be a jumbled collection of hard-to-follow interrogatories mixed with narrations. It's almost always unclear what the narrations are describing--for instance, it's unclear if they're describing an immersive, visionary experience versus spiritual figures / beings literally materialized into a room, etc. We don't have a good way of knowing whether the words the seer is using are always describing something seen, or if some of them are more pure interpretive / verbal.

It's also unclear (at least to me) what methods Crowley or Parsons used to 'open portals' that may have, so the story goes, led to the UFO phenomenon. Usually the books on the subject just speak of Parsons and Hubbard going into the desert and 'performing the Babalon working.' I believe some say the working was based on Enochian magic. Well, how concretely did they perform such "a working"? I think the details of the methodology and the phenomenology of the "working" are critical to assessing the likelihood of the claims of the Collins Elite and others that these "workings" were somehow related to the UFO phenomenon. But it seems we have no concrete information--maybe someone does, but I have failed to find it.
 
jimbo83478 said:
Can someone please explain to me why we ought to give a crap about a bunch of bible-thumpers that happen to have a definitive opinion on the ETH hypothesis?
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Because they would seem to be well funded and exerting a certain degree of undo influence over some of our most cherished and powerful secular institutions. And worst of all, they are doing much of their work in the dark. A very Un-Christian MO, I would say.
 
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