Nick Redfern's New Book Sounds Intriguing!

[Trajanus]

... There's a report by Vallee where iirc he argues against ET visitors on the basis that there are too many different types reported (before the Greys franchise).....Certainly, it's hard to 'believe' that there are '57 species' of ET visiting Earth - but if we knew for sure that ET were visiting - it wouldn't be too surprising to find there was a number of types.

Of course not. After the discovery of Gliese 581g, an astronomer estimated there are 20 billion planets within habitable zones in our galaxy. Even if only a single or a few civilizations have entities here, they could still have many different types, including cyborg/robotic/cloned and natural.

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I think he had a good point. Another way to think of it is, "With such diversity in "visitors" indicating our discovery by multiple civilizations, what are the odds that all of these civilizations would agree to maintain such a low-key covert presence here?" It is very hard to believe such a thing would be agreed upon between them or that such diverse civilizations would evolve such similar methods in dealing with their "discoveries." It doesn't make sense to me.

Even us earthlings have international organizations or alliances to coordinate policy. Even if a few civilizations are acting here independently, their methods could be similar even if their missions are different. One group might abduct humans just to study us, another to obtain genes for some reason. But neither would do it very openly, since that might provoke too much resistance.

 

[trainedobserver]

Even us earthlings have international organizations or alliances to coordinate policy. Even if a few civilizations are acting here independently, their methods could be similar even if their missions are different.

I don't think the problem can be so easily dismissed myself. There may be some core truth to the business but for the large part I have come to think it is largely fiction, a controlled and manipulated perception designed to induce a specific mindset.

 

[tyder001]

I don't think the problem can be so easily dismissed myself. There may be some core truth to the business but for the large part I have come to think it is largely fiction, a controlled and manipulated perception designed to induce a specific mindset.

I think it's a few lights in the sky combined with military technonology and the "interwebs."

But, maybe we will see.

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I think it's a few lights in the sky combined with military technonology and the "interwebs."

But, maybe we will see.

Well, that's not really fair. I was being a little bit tounge in cheek. But, I am still "entertained" by the possibilites. Keep watching the skies.

 

[Trajanus]

I don't think the problem can be so easily dismissed myself. There may be some core truth to the business but for the large part I have come to think it is largely fiction, a controlled and manipulated perception designed to induce a specific mindset.

On the part of whom, and with what specific objective in mind?

 

[tyder001]

On the part of whom, and with what specific objective in mind?

One of the problems with the "mind control" agenda is the diversity of sightings. If it were just in the U.S. And Canada and Western Europe it would still be unlikely. But the sheer scope of the world wide expereince gives serious question as to the ability of a single or even a couple of military organizations to pull it off.

 

[Trajanus]

One of the problems with the "mind control" agenda is the diversity of sightings.

Or the volume of sightings, and the difficulty of faking many of them.

If it were just in the U.S. And Canada and Western Europe it would still be unlikely. But the sheer scope of the world wide expereince gives serious question as to the ability of a single or even a couple of military organizations to pull it off.

Add to that international rivalries and the lack of any clear benefit AFAIK which would make the putative effort worthwhile. Also, if the military is behind it, why the debunking?

 

[tyder001]

Or the volume of sightings, and the difficulty of faking many of them.



Add to that international rivalries and the lack of any clear benefit AFAIK which would make the putative effort worthwhile. Also, if the military is behind it, why the debunking?

Yeah, that's kind of how I see it. I still don't "believe" we are being visited. But, when I think the "mind control" angle through I'm just not sure it's pratical. Anyway, maybe someday we will "know" but for now I guess we have to gather and interpret the evidence for ourselves.

 

[Trajanus]

Yeah, that's kind of how I see it. I still don't "believe" we are being visited. But, when I think the "mind control" angle through I'm just not sure it's pratical...

Apparently not for Earthly powers.

 

[trainedobserver]

On the part of whom, and with what specific objective in mind?

I think the most likely source are human beings with the objective of masking their own operations. While there may be and probably is a small contingent of non-human oriented phenomena that may or may not be of extraterrestrial origin it seems clear that human beings are exploiting those incidents and controlling public perception of them. I'm not saying the phenomena is entirely human based, I'm saying it is being exploited, inflated, and manipulated to a great extent. So much so that the real phenomena is generally obscured. Just speculation based on what I've been reading and thinking about lately. I am just about convinced that we're wasting our time pondering UFOs, alien abductions, and whatnot. The real thing that should be investigated is why the U.S. military is feeding the public information about the subject. The information isn't as important (because of its largely unverifiable nature) as the reason for its existence and dissemination. I can't stress that enough. Anybody see what I'm saying and agree with me?

 

[Martina]

Hop on over to The Secret Sun: Final Events: Interview with Nick Redfern and see what Nick Redfern has to say about it. Comments are interesting too...

Oh gosh, I can't take this seriously at all after reading:

Basically speaking, Final Events is a study of a think-tank group comprised of personnel from within the U.S. Government, military and intelligence community that has existed in stealth for a surprisingly long time. The group believes that while the UFO issue is a very real one, they do not believe it has anything to do with literal extraterrestrials....

Rather, they want to maintain the herd, and upon our physical deaths, extract the human life-force as sustenance. The Collins Elite believes this has been going on since the dawning of civilization and that the ET motif is the latest in a long line of deceptive images they have used, and that in the past have included gods, angels, Jinns, fairies, goblins, etc etc.

To me it looks like just another try at making UFO's into something spiritual/demonic/occult in order to make money off it. Demons stealing souls and inhabiting human bodies might make good scifi movie material, but it really jumps the shark presented as alleged reality. I would not give it much thought at all.

 

[Trajanus]

To me it looks like just another try at making UFO's into something spiritual/demonic/occult in order to make money off it. Demons stealing souls and inhabiting human bodies might make good scifi movie material, but it really jumps the shark presented as alleged reality. I would not give it much thought at all.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[trainedobserver]

To me it looks like just another try at making UFO's into something spiritual/demonic/occult in order to make money off it

For what its worth I've read the book and I'd say the likelihood of Redfern making all of it up is slim. It does appear to be a story that was fed to him by the AFOSI essentially with a great deal of supporting documentation. The conclusions of the C.E. are to be expected given their religious bent and are not supported or shared by the author nor anyone in the forum that I know of. The important questions raised, in my mind, aren't concerning the conclusions of the group or their proposed response, but rather the fact the AFSOI had anything to do with it at all. What is the real story behind the dissemination of the story?

 

[Trajanus]

I think the most likely source are human beings with the objective of masking their own operations. While there may be and probably is a small contingent of non-human oriented phenomena that may or may not be of extraterrestrial origin it seems clear that human beings are exploiting those incidents and controlling public perception of them. I'm not saying the phenomena is entirely human based,

For the most part I don't think it could be. Too advanced, even bizarre.

I'm saying it is being exploited, inflated, and manipulated to a great extent. So much so that the real phenomena is generally obscured. Just speculation based on what I've been reading and thinking about lately. I am just about convinced that we're wasting our time pondering UFOs, alien abductions, and whatnot. The real thing that should be investigated is why the U.S. military is feeding the public information about the subject. The information isn't as important (because of its largely unverifiable nature) as the reason for its existence and dissemination...

Maybe the purpose of the "information" is to diminish belief, as much of what is put out is silly e.g. Final Events. Wouldn't be surprising since the official policy is debunking/denial. They can't make the phenomenon go away but they can keep it from being taken seriously enough.

 

[Martina]

Agreed! And what better way than to get some well known author to opt into such a wild tale then publish it. Trainedobserver is asking a very good question too, who fed him this stuff?

 

[trainedobserver]

They can't make the phenomenon go away but they can keep it from being taken seriously enough.

I guess it is easy enough to argue from both sides with equal validity. I'm leaning to one side now, I leaned toward the other earlier on, I'll probably lean some other way before I finally fall down. Know what I'm saying?

 

[tyder001]

This guy is pretty well respected in some circles. He might not think it's all a nuts and bolts "thang." :=o

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This guy is pretty well respected in some circles. He might not think it's all a nuts and bolts "thang." :=o

http://www.anomalistbooks.com/vallee1.html

 

[Martina]

This guy is pretty well respected in some circles. He might not think it's all a nuts and bolts "thang." :=o

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I suppose no matter what you believe there are circles in which you will be respected for it. I've heard Redfern on C2C before, and I never really took him seriously, any more than I do now that he's published this, but for all I know he may have some validity somewhere.

I'm just not prepared to believe in saucer flying demons stealing souls and body-snatching all over the world. Serpo sounds a lot more credible to me, but I'm not convinced of that either.

 

[Kandinsky]

I've just thanked some of the posts in the last 2 or 3 pages for making points or raising questions that are important or I agree with. I haven't mastered the multiple replies in one post and tbh can't be arsed right now. Tired.

I think the posts I've thanked (drawn a line under really) are deep and circling the genuinely important questions of the phenomena:

If there isn't a phenomena...why all the reports?

If there is a phenomena...why the denial?

If there isn't a phenomena...who's creating a perception that there is and why?

You've all made more points than these, but they do home in on the root causes for the mystery of what is going on.

I am just about convinced that we're wasting our time pondering UFOs, alien abductions, and whatnot. The real thing that should be investigated is why the U.S. military is feeding the public information about the subject. The information isn't as important (because of its largely unverifiable nature) as the reason for its existence and dissemination. I can't stress that enough. Anybody see what I'm saying and agree with me?

said Trainedobserver

I've been wondering the same thing for a while. There's a lot of effort going into creating a smokescreen and it's nigh on impossible to focus on what the hell is being concealed by the elaborate deception taking place. 'National security' is undoubtedly part of the program, but why the focus on such a minor niche like ufology?

It's been a long day and I wish I could elaborate more or express my thoughts more clearly in response to the points you've all made.

 

[xLordSummerislex]

Good questions, Kandinsky. The situation's made murkier by the fact the state isn't a monolithic whole with a coherent agenda, rather a bunch of agencies and factions and individuals, often with competing or even antagonistic agendas, compounded by the seemingly deceptive nature of the phenomena itself.
My copy of the book's arrived at long last, most of the way through it. I'm reasonably convinced the CE did exist in some form or another, though the connection to Kirtland AFOSI does raise a bit of a red flag, as does the fact that the two scientists who first came forward also wanted to spoke to Linda Moulton Howe, who was a previous target of disinfo. From the book, it does seem like someone wanted the story out there.

 

[trainedobserver]

Linda Moulton Howe, who was a previous target of disinfo

She channels the damn stuff, what are you talking about?