bobheck
Disco still sucks.
OK David, I find myself agreeing with you somewhat, but not in everything.
Another good point David. He was our guy (as was Osama, I am sorry to say) -- but he got out of hand and we dealt with it.
This one is just wrong. Bush did not kill Habeas Corpus. The people that were detained were non-military enemy combatants that were firing at us on a field of battle. By the Geneva convention itself we could have legally shot them all in the head on the field of battle and been totally within the guidelines of the Geneva convention. Taking them into custody was the more humane option - and smarter, because they could be interrogated. Torture? Oh Christ come on. Yes, discomfort and fear. Nobody had their fingers and limbs torn off or broken here or were beaten. Look at Islamic and Iraq prisons if you want to see torture, maiming, beheadings, horrific pain -- not us pal.
Oh, and I am with you on the stem cell research. That is a good point too.
Ask yourself this, who started all this? Did we go attack Iraq, Iran, back in the 70's or 80's? No, it is Islamic fundamentalists that hate us for supporting Israel, which was a country formed by the U.N. with the world's approval after WW2.
Then, in 1967, Egypt, Jordan, and Syria, with the help of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco decided that they wanted to take back Israel and convinced several thousand Arabs living in Israel to come join them. They came in tanks ablazing trying to take back the land and destroy Israel. Well, not only did they lose to little old Israel, but Israel gained ground in the fight, pushing them back. Israel gained the Sinai Peninsula (which they have since given back), the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, east Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights.
All of those territories -- which the Arabs still bitch and moan about, were all in Arab possession before the war and still would be if they had not been assholes and tried to destroy Israel. You start a war, you lose, you live with the consequences. Now, because they started a war and lost, they are pissed at the whole world and anyone who doesn't want them to have their land back. Boo frickety hoo.
The cooked data I agree. But, you dismissed the fact that Iraq violated the cease fire of the first war, and we had every right to go in based on that alone. Now, why Bush did not use that instead of the BS dog and pony show with Powell, you got me there.
You got me here, David. Good point.
Our armed forces are not torn to shit, they are fine. We did get to unload a lot of our old arsenal and are replacing it with new. The cost of the war is always exaggerated because they include the salaries, food, and upkeep of the ships, planes and soldiers, when most of those expenses would have been there to begin with, even if they were just training. If anything, the domestic production to support the war may have postponed the economic collapse that they obviously saw coming (and that may have been a factor in starting the war I am not putting that out of the realm of possibility). Islam hates us anyway, always has -- Tehran, Beirut, U.S.S. Cole, First WTC attack, Khobar Towers, and on and on. So, we finally had enough and started to punch back -- with a much bigger fist -- good. These fundamentalists want nothing less than us dead or converted to Islam, no other options in their mind, period -- how else are you supposed to deal with that?
Another good point David. He was our guy (as was Osama, I am sorry to say) -- but he got out of hand and we dealt with it.
This one is just wrong. Bush did not kill Habeas Corpus. The people that were detained were non-military enemy combatants that were firing at us on a field of battle. By the Geneva convention itself we could have legally shot them all in the head on the field of battle and been totally within the guidelines of the Geneva convention. Taking them into custody was the more humane option - and smarter, because they could be interrogated. Torture? Oh Christ come on. Yes, discomfort and fear. Nobody had their fingers and limbs torn off or broken here or were beaten. Look at Islamic and Iraq prisons if you want to see torture, maiming, beheadings, horrific pain -- not us pal.
Oh, and I am with you on the stem cell research. That is a good point too.
I am not one of those idiots who voted him into power. But we have not been attacked again, and it is because we have decimated Al Quaida's ability to operate, at least for the past several years. That is a fact. They are living underground in caves and scurrying like the vermin they are when the light shines on them.
Ask yourself this, who started all this? Did we go attack Iraq, Iran, back in the 70's or 80's? No, it is Islamic fundamentalists that hate us for supporting Israel, which was a country formed by the U.N. with the world's approval after WW2.
Then, in 1967, Egypt, Jordan, and Syria, with the help of Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco decided that they wanted to take back Israel and convinced several thousand Arabs living in Israel to come join them. They came in tanks ablazing trying to take back the land and destroy Israel. Well, not only did they lose to little old Israel, but Israel gained ground in the fight, pushing them back. Israel gained the Sinai Peninsula (which they have since given back), the Gaza Strip, the West Bank, east Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights.
All of those territories -- which the Arabs still bitch and moan about, were all in Arab possession before the war and still would be if they had not been assholes and tried to destroy Israel. You start a war, you lose, you live with the consequences. Now, because they started a war and lost, they are pissed at the whole world and anyone who doesn't want them to have their land back. Boo frickety hoo.
