NYT hates W

[Tommy Allison]

Respect is not given, it is earned. I have no intention of respecting those who would like to see me dead, my ideals destroyed. Bush deserves every drop of hatred me or anyone else wants to give him, he's certainly earned it. If the man presented himself to me in person, I'd spit on him. Seriously. I think he's evil scum. You want to disagree with me, have at it. Those of you who respect him, I hope the future generations of Islamic terrorists who want blood for his crimes come to your house and take it out on you. Hopefully, I'll be long gone by then.

Anyone who thinks that we should have all the oil in the world because we want it, that somehow it belongs to us because we think it should, is deluding themselves. By those standards, fundamentalist Islamic radicals want us dead, so they should have the right to kill us. Obviously ridiculous, but the logic does indeed work both ways.

And those will be my last comments in this thread. Have fun.

dB

We have plenty of oil here in the United States. There is no shortage. It is called global welfare for a reason David. We have never needed to go to war over oil. We went to war to control other people's oil so the prices would go up and up.

The war served a 2 fold purpose. Raise the price of crude, and perpetuate a need for a US presence in that region, so that we can continue to control it.

These weren't the TRUE purposes though. The true purpose for the war in Iraq, was to destroy the middle class through price increases that could not otherwise be justified. There was a financial bubble that was bursting on 9-11. Enron, and several other big companies tanked that very same day. Decimating the retirement income of over half of America. My wife lost her entire 401K when Enron tanked.

The people were building wealth without the hand of government free to tax it, and this made things difficult for the responsible few, to take the wealth away from the irresponsible many. We watched our stock market be destroyed by price gouging and collusion among oil companies, which in turn spawned other crises across the board, and why? So that the wealth that we as a nation had made, would be wiped out, making each and every American dependent on the US Government for a hand out when they reached retirement age.

When you have a sector of the population dependent on the government, that sector ALWAYS votes WITH government to raise your taxes. The bigger the demand on the system, the more crushing the totalitarian state becomes. Just take a look at the United Kingdom. They're a shining example of how prosperity is robbed from the people. Their taxation rates are through the roof, and what do they get in return?

It's exactly why the Boomer generation has been the single most destructive force in the United States. They have done what no foreign power could have ever done in the last 200 years. Bankrupt this nation, financially, and morally.

 

[bobheck]

Check the international (UN) boundaries for Israel - the majority of Palestenian areas do not fall within its boundaries. What war did the Palestinian's start?

Before 1967, they weren't known as Palestinians, they were known mostly as Egyptians and Jordanians, and they were the aggressors in the Six Day War. So, the Palestinians were among those that started and participated in the Six Day War. Through self-defense, Israel gained those territories and kept them.

How do you determine ownership of the land? Does living there for generations and owning property there not constitute some kind of right to ownership?
BTW who owns America? Perhaps you should ponder that.

Sadly enough, who really owns land, when you get down to it, on an international scale, is who occupies it and has the power and commitment to defend and keep it and oust undesirables. International law only helps when muscle is put behind those laws, like U.N. peacekeeping forces, etc...

The land that Israel is 'occupying' right now is the equivalent of if let's say Canada tried to invade the U.S., and in the war we gained control of Alberta. When the war was over and if we won, Alberta is ours, unless we want to be nice and give it back. Which the good guys do most of the time. After all, Germany is still there, and Japan. And they have fared quite well.

In the case of Israel, having 'occupied' territories as buffer zones between them and a population that has a larger than average share of suicidal zealots makes sense.

Makes it perfectly acceptable then. The Iranians could say it is in their national interests to nuke America or Israel - doesn't make it right though.

No it does not. It is a reality though. It was not the fact that the oil is there, it was more of the threat that was building that Saddam would gain enough support and control to cause the free flow of oil to stop. Look, I am at least blowing through all the WMD stuff and admitting that the only reason the U.S. is at all interested in the region is oil. But it is a valid concern.

I don't condone terrorism but it is what people who feel powerless turn to. Perhaps taking a look at solving the problems which make people turn to terrorism would be a more fruitful way of dealing with it.

Oh here we go, this sad old argument. The guy that just killed 45 innocent people, it's not is fault, the devil made him do it. Let's figure out why he wanted to do that. BS.

Terrorism is not what people who feel powerless turn to. It is what misguided zealots turn to. People who feel powerless meld with the population and fit in until they can build enough stature and backing, both financially and in popularity, to have the governing authority (as long as it is not a dictator or despot, e.g. Saddam) listen to their concerns in an orderly fashion and bring about change through the established processes. It is long process.

If the Palestinians were given a true state with full control of their borders then it would take away a huge incentive for terrorist activity. Of course, it is not in the interests of the American Military Industrial Complex to do this because they would lose a large customer.

Fine, then let Jordan and Egypt give up some of their land for a glorious new Palestine. They have so much more land to give than Israel. Wouldn't that be more fair?

 

[skunkape]

the indigenous aussies smile at the idea of owning land,
they say it owns you, not the other way around
it was here before us, will be here after us, we are born on it, walk on it, and buried in it....

it owns you.


it does seem almost like the ultimate conspiracy, "spend" your whole working life and the output of your labour, paying a bank to own something you never can.

This Universe owns me. This wonderful planet is a gift. Such a shame about that small handfull of assholes we All have to share it with. They will pass.

 

[bobheck]

Ok everyone. I got miffed and spouted off some stuff. I do stand by what I said, but that is not why I joined the Paracast.

So, I will no longer comment in this thread. And, I will go back to viewing threads of a Paranormal nature, and will be a faithful listener of the Paracast.

[HOLDING UP MY RIGHT HAND -- WITH SCOUTS PLEDGE SIGN SHOWING]
I, bobheck, faithful member of the Paracast family, do hereby solemly swear that I will try....TRY my gosh-darndest to abstain from viewing or commenting on threads of a political nature. I will be an avid, active member of all other thread subjects and remain a faithful listener and supporter of The Paracast.

 

[skunkape]

Ok everyone. I got miffed and spouted off some stuff. I do stand by what I said, but that is not why I joined the Paracast.

So, I will no longer comment in this thread. And, I will go back to viewing threads of a Paranormal nature, and will be a faithful listener of the Paracast.

[HOLDING UP MY RIGHT HAND -- WITH SCOUTS PLEDGE SIGN SHOWING]
I, bobheck, faithful member of the Paracast family, do hereby solemly swear that I will try....TRY my gosh-darndest to abstain from viewing or commenting on threads of a political nature. I will be an avid, active member of all other thread subjects and remain a faithful listener and supporter of The Paracast.

May the Luck Plane tilt in your favor.
Maybe for neurosemantic lingusitic clarification we should change the 'monkey-grunt' that sounds to our ears like "Politics" to a 'monkey-grunt' that sound to our ears like "Paratics."

 

[mike]

Respect is not given, it is earned. I have no intention of respecting those who would like to see me dead, my ideals destroyed. Bush deserves every drop of hatred me or anyone else wants to give him, he's certainly earned it. If the man presented himself to me in person, I'd spit on him. Seriously. I think he's evil scum. You want to disagree with me, have at it. Those of you who respect him, I hope the future generations of Islamic terrorists who want blood for his crimes come to your house and take it out on you. Hopefully, I'll be long gone by then.

Anyone who thinks that we should have all the oil in the world because we want it, that somehow it belongs to us because we think it should, is deluding themselves. By those standards, fundamentalist Islamic radicals want us dead, so they should have the right to kill us. Obviously ridiculous, but the logic does indeed work both ways.

And those will be my last comments in this thread. Have fun.

dB

unfortunate that this is your last comment, because the first thing that comes to mind is to ask "what would you have done" were you wearing his shoes ?

and it is true that there have been no more 911 style attacks during his term of office.
before i put a man "in his place", i try and put myself in his place first.
i often wonder had i walked in his shoes post 911, what would i have done, how would i have reacted.....

how would i have taken control of the probability lattices to effect a no more attacks result.

if nothing else there have been no more attacks...
i call this clean floor syndrome, as a graveyard shift mainframe operator in my youth i noticed a thing.
the lobby of the skyscraper i worked in had a marble floor, and every morning at 3:00am a small army of cleaners gave it the works, so when the 8:30am rush of execs hit the building it was "spotless", and no one ever said a thing....ppl walked on it, but it never came up in conversation, until one day the cleaners were on strike, and the floor became dirty.... then ppl started talking about the floor, it became a topic for conversation.

no one notices a clean floor, at least there have been no more attacks during his term, if you had continued to have large planes impact tall buildings month after month year after year...... that would be a different story

 

[Killerclown]

Bob, I enjoyed your posts and despite some of my comments I think we can agree that discussion is good so please don't take it personally and continue to post. One of the great problems here in the UK and probably in the US is the lack of debate and discussion about important issues.

 

[bobheck]

Bob, I enjoyed your posts and despite some of my comments I think we can agree that discussion is good so please don't take it personally and continue to post. One of the great problems here in the UK and probably in the US is the lack of debate and discussion about important issues.

I assure you I still hold you in quite high regard, as I do everyone that posted. I really enjoy a lively debate (as you can tell) with people who are NOT dimwits. I honestly think this forum has some mental giants on it. It is invigorating to discuss things with you all. You literally stretch my mind (and make me second guess myself often).

I am just a little drained on this thread right now, to be honest.

I will check back at a later time.

Thanks.

 

[exo_doc]

"Privaleged Ass Clown Bids Adieu, Fills Pants",...."Imbecilic Fuckwad Oblivious to Wreckage in His Wake"...."Dumb as a Box of Hammers".....

C'mon guys, now that's some hilarious shit no matter who's on the receiving end!

 

[CapnG]

I am not one of those idiots who voted him into power. But we have not been attacked again, and it is because we have decimated Al Quaida's ability to operate, at least for the past several years. That is a fact. They are living underground in caves and scurrying like the vermin they are when the light shines on them.

That's simply not true, bob. According to reports published BY the Bush administration, since approx 2005 Al Queda and the Taleban have gained recruitment at levels not seen since thier founding. That's hardly "progress".

On a seperate and somewhat pedantic historical note, there was nothing remotely socialist about the Nazis. The fact the word "socialist" appeared in their party name was nothing more than a sales gimmick (like "low calorie cake"). Hitler despised leftists, he ranked them fairly close after Jews and Communists as his archest of enemies. The proof of this is that when the Nazis assumed power, those party members with left-leaning ideals asked when they were going to start living up to thier moniker. Hitler's response was to have them executed in the "night of the long knives". And lest we forget, Hitler broke his deal with Stalin as soon as it was convenient, such was his hatred for communists.

Further evidence that Naziism is the ultimate expression of right-wing ideology? The USA is home to the largest White Supremecist and Neo-Nazi organizations in the world today and their ranks are drawn heavily from predomenantly conservative, libertarian, southern (former confederate) states. In an ironic twist, these people tend to shout the loudest about how the government wants to take away their rights and freedoms.

These aren't my opinions, they're historical, social and geographical realities. Feel free to look it up in any political textbook, you'll see the chart goes like this:

Liberal>>>Socialist>>>Communist
Conservative>>>Totalitarian>>>Facist(Nazi)

Now, with that bit of bookeeping done, I have to agree with bob that these political threads are bad for the blood pressure, so on that note:

[HOLDING UP MY RIGHT HAND -- ALTHOUGH I WASN'T IN SCOUTS]
I, CapnG, faithful member of the Paracast family, do hereby solemly swear that I will try....TRY my gosh-darndest to abstain from viewing or commenting on threads of a political nature. I will be an avid, active member of all other thread subjects and remain a faithful listener and supporter of The Paracast.

 

[bobheck]

That's simply not true, bob...

(muffled because lips are closed)
Hrr mmpphh rrmmm mmmmrrrmm mm mmmm mmrrmm mm MMMM.

phew! There, at least I know what I said.

Thanks for taking the non-political oath!

 

[CapnG]

(muffled because lips are closed)
Hrr mmpphh rrmmm mmmmrrrmm mm mmmm mmrrmm mm MMMM.

phew! There, at least I know what I said.

Thanks for taking the non-political oath!

Hey Bob, I thought you weren't going to post in this thread anymore?

Waitaminnit.... aw, CRAP!

 

[AnnetteMarie]

Let's get down to brass tacks -- oil. If the Middle East spigot is turned off, the way our dependency is, we are doomed.

either that or Canada is doomed. We pretty much are a major supplier of oil...

so how do you spell CanUsa?

 

[Killerclown]

When the oil runs out the whole world is screwed. We could maybe (with great effort) manage to switch to coal (and other sources) for power production but the other major function of oil - producing plastics and other chemicals is something we also need to worry about. What will we build all our modern machines with when there is no easy access to all those hydrocarbons?

 

[Mogwa]

It's a shame so many people are put off by political discussions. What sets the Paracast boards apart from most others is the civility and restraint the users display towards one another, even when they radically disagree.

Are political debates the proper venue for a site dedicated to exploring the paranormal? I believe so, since everything in the human experience is touched by our interactions with one another, whether as individuals or clearly defined groups seeking to promote our beliefs.

 

[Astroboy]

There is a lot I hate about him but it isn't as much about Iraq as most people. If Iraq manages to pull itself together after our withdrawl then history might look at Bush more kindly and not the big fuckup it is currently. It could possibly be the first true Arab democracy. Hey, I know we went in there with sketchy or doctored information. But, guess what? Saddam didn't help his own cause either. The Iraqis played musical chairs with the inspection teams to such a degree that it sure made him look guilty of hiding WMDs. The deceptions we so deep that even his own generals believed that the Iraqis had nuclear or chemical weapons and were shocked when they found out during the invasion that there were none to use.

There is no question that invading Afganistan was a necessity. You got to go after the enemy where they are. But they should have been more thorough and not let that idiot Rumfield do a war on the cheap with minimal forces and thereby letting Bin Laden escape.

What I hated about Bush is the climate he endorsed of anti-science and anti-intellectualism that has permeated the government while under his rule. It's the same thing that makes Rush Limbaugh, O'Reilly, Fox News, and Sarah Palin popular. It is sickening. It glorifies stupidity and bigotry.

And that outing of the CIA agent? That is treason in anybody's book. Lucky she wasn't in Russia in the Cold War or she'd be dead. Why hasn't anybody been jailed for this?