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Obama on Gay Marriage

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Guys - sorry to say but I think your votes are utterly wasted regardless of who you vote for. But not just in the states, in most western countries (not even going to consider other places).

What I mean is if we imagine 2 possible futures, one in which Obama is re-elected and the other future with his opponent getting elected.
2 possible futures decided by your collective votes?

Unfortunately I have to say that it matters no more than which clothes you will decide to wear to go vote. Doesn't matter which candidate/party gets in. The wheels of government will turn the same. The same legislation will get passed - at least the stuff that matters to those who have power, influence and money. You will still work the same hours, for the same pay with the same chances of your job being there at the end of the week. Your health will be the same, TV will be the same, the sun will still rise and set.

I want to know what actual real tangible difference each candidate COULD make to your lives, even if they actually tried. Zip is about as much real difference it will make. So, please, exercise your democratic right to go and vote, to keep up the pretence of having any influence whatsoever but I guarantee things will be the same. They always are. There are people who really steer the course of events but they are never the ones with their names on the ballot.

Cynical? Yes. True? I think so I'm afraid.
 
To the question why is it a big deal in the US.......
I think it has a lot to do with religion

Its one nation under god, every dollar is issued in his name.
History of putting 'IN GOD WE TRUST' in the U.S. Currency | Uncompromising Rhetoric

And laudable it may be to hear liberals saying they are OK with it, i doubt many of them will be expecting to see men wearing chaps and handlebar moustaches holding hands in heaven.

Me, i dont give a fig leaf, to me skin is skin it comes in a variety of colours and configurations including male and female configs.
If the conciousness inhabiting any of the various permuations of skin, finds a connection with another, they should be free to do so.

To object to gay marriage is no different a sort of bigotry as to object to mixed race marriage.
No one choses the skin they wear, so its irrelevant.
If two people make a connection thats all that matters, the configuration of their skin and or colour of it is irrelevant, if it wasnt we would be seeing mixed race and same sex couples.
Love is about the person, not the skin they wear.
 
Kim323 said:
Hi, jabbermocky. I don't have any idea so I just googled the subject and read a bunch of stuff. Evidently it's a subject best avoided, though things have been changing in society, the media, entertainment, and especially the law. There was some penal code 377 that I didn't bother to learn more about, about homosexual relations being illegal, that was struck down by a high or the highest Indian court. It sounds similar to our supreme court decision finding laws against certain acts (shall we say) being unconstitutional. I remember thinking at the time that those laws against that particular practice (to be alliterative) were still in effect locally around the country and that the practice in question was not limited exclusively to homosexuals. So sort of sounds like the US in ways: the times, they are a'changin'. What is the situation in Canada? Kim
Click to expand...

It's legal. I know quite a few couples and the odd one or two who are married. Churches still have it as optional -- but most get married through a JP. I guess gay marriages and churches are like Groucho and clubs...

Bottom line is, you shouldn't need a piece of paper to prove that you love one another -- for any couple; it's a nice traditional thing to do, but doesn't appear to mean much to most nowadays. (That said by someone who has been married over 30 years.)
 
ward said:
Extremist Christian thinking isn't limited to any particular party Ezechiel look at Rev. Wrights comments that got Obama into so much trouble just before his election.

Lets not lower the debate about the next president to exclusively to the gay issue. If your number one concern about what's harming the country right now is the gay issue I would be very surprised.
Presidential elections are the time we the people, as American Citizens are required to hold the incumbent presidents feet to the fire and say, OK Mr Prez man, did ya do what you promised to do when you ask for my vote 4 years ago.
Did we make the right choice electing a junior senator with promises of hope and change? Did his promised "government transparency" come to pass these last 4 years. How did he respond to the Gulf Oil disaster, did he hold BP accountable and force them to distribute money to those impacted?
Does he inspire this country to go and do greater things. Has he set the direction and given us hope like Kennedy did by going to the stars?
Has he expanded out scientific knowledge of the universe by expanding and funding NASA?
Is our space program thriving?
Did he sign the National Defense Authorization Act? Does this make you feel safe?
Does this President behave like the third branch of Government is supposed to or does he like so many before him act like a King?
Did he Sign the “Anti-Protest” Bill H.R. 347? Does this make you feel safe?
Simply how is your life going vs. 4 years ago?

It's up to everyone to answer these questions for themselves not be told by loud mouths on TV/Radio/Fear web-sights that this man or this man is better.

Four years is the standard we have to judge them, because sending an incumbent back in to office after 4 years as a lame duck you better damn well know you have faith in them and their "promises."

Just one citizens opinions ;)
Click to expand...

Didn't Rep. Joe Barton (R-TX) apologize to BP after Obama made BP set up a 20 billion dollar fund for repayment to households and businesses affected by the spill? How was that response? Or is it a.o.k because he (Barton) is a royalist? To me, human and civil rights are not to be argued and history always looks back in shame at how we have treated the disadvantaged groups in this country. I am not gay and I assume you are not either so how is this affecting us in any way again if gays can get married? And hasn't having the most radically conservative congress in history affected how some things have gotten done? They are not interested in bipartisanship. They are interested in getting That One out of office.
 
mike said:
To the question why is it a big deal in the US.......
I think it has a lot to do with religion

Its one nation under god, every dollar is issued in his name.
History of putting 'IN GOD WE TRUST' in the U.S. Currency | Uncompromising Rhetoric

And laudable it may be to hear liberals saying they are OK with it, i doubt many of them will be expecting to see men wearing chaps and handlebar moustaches holding hands in heaven.

Me, i dont give a fig leaf, to me skin is skin it comes in a variety of colours and configurations including male and female configs.
If the conciousness inhabiting any of the various permuations of skin, finds a connection with another, they should be free to do so.

To object to gay marriage is no different a sort of bigotry as to object to mixed race marriage.
No one choses the skin they wear, so its irrelevant.
If two people make a connection thats all that matters, the configuration of their skin and or colour of it is irrelevant, if it wasnt we would be seeing mixed race and same sex couples.
Love is about the person, not the skin they wear.
Click to expand...


I also don't expect to be seeing southern pastors and sheriffs in heaven either who were active in denying black people their rights under Jim Crow. The former using the bible as proof that slavery or bigotry is just. Or slave holders for that matter. Or people who lie about WMD and cause the deaths of thousands of Americans and countless foreign peoples. I think chaps and facial hair should be the least of our worries, huh?;) Edit: I completely agree with that awesome link you posted. Good for you.
 
The most upsetting thing I find here is the implication that Gillian Anderson, a redhead, might be anything other than a Glock wielding goddess in the flesh. :D But I am hopelessly biased.

My views on this issue are mostly summed up by goggsmackay and others. I don't give a fig who chooses to marry whom, as long as the union represented is one of consenting adults, yada yada.

The notion that certain churches or established religions might be obligated by law to endorse unions contrary to their belief systems had honestly not occurred to me. I also agree with gogg on this one.

Times change. Societies and their values--dare I say it--evolve. In the meantime, Rome is smoldering and we have real problems to solve.
 
mike said:
It doesnt matter who you vote for the govt always gets in :D


I think the US is more by the corporations for the corporations these days .
Click to expand...

I think Obama threw himself under the bus. Christians in this country hold a lot of weight and now definite lines have been drawn in the sand.

I just wonder what his puppeteers are up to? That was a ball'sy move.
 
desidragonfly said:
I think Obama threw himself under the bus. Christians in this country hold a lot of weight and now definite lines have been drawn in the sand.

I just wonder what his puppeteers are up to? That was a ball'sy move.
Click to expand...

Its not just a line, its an evolving grand canyon. I hope Obama measured the scope of his statement as it is a direct hit on christian ideology. Homosexual marriage is part of a much larger package that resides outside the christian box.

The ultimate question that he will have to address: Is the USA a christian nation and should its social issues be resolved by christian views only. Should scientific research be restricted by christian moral guidelines and biblical scripture.

At stake is:
  • The definition of life
  • The definition of death
  • The definition of a family
  • Rowe vs Wade (Abortions)
  • Contraception
  • Homosexual marriages
  • Stem cell research
  • etc...

It could be game over for secularity in November 2012. In the 'christian' god we trust ?
220px-2006_Quarter_Proof.png


With the help of a supreme court packed with conservative justices... I'd expect no less ;)
 
ward said:
Extremist Christian thinking isn't limited to any particular party Ezechiel look at Rev. Wrights comments that got Obama into so much trouble just before his election.

Lets not lower the debate about the next president to exclusively to the gay issue. If your number one concern about what's harming the country right now is the gay issue I would be very surprised.
Presidential elections are the time we the people, as American Citizens are required to hold the incumbent presidents feet to the fire and say, OK Mr Prez man, did ya do what you promised to do when you ask for my vote 4 years ago.
Did we make the right choice electing a junior senator with promises of hope and change? Did his promised "government transparency" come to pass these last 4 years. How did he respond to the Gulf Oil disaster, did he hold BP accountable and force them to distribute money to those impacted?
Does he inspire this country to go and do greater things. Has he set the direction and given us hope like Kennedy did by going to the stars?
Has he expanded out scientific knowledge of the universe by expanding and funding NASA?
Is our space program thriving?
Did he sign the National Defense Authorization Act? Does this make you feel safe?
Does this President behave like the third branch of Government is supposed to or does he like so many before him act like a King?
Did he Sign the “Anti-Protest” Bill H.R. 347? Does this make you feel safe?
Simply how is your life going vs. 4 years ago?

It's up to everyone to answer these questions for themselves not be told by loud mouths on TV/Radio/Fear web-sights that this man or this man is better.

Four years is the standard we have to judge them, because sending an incumbent back in to office after 4 years as a lame duck you better damn well know you have faith in them and their "promises."

Just one citizens opinions ;)
Click to expand...

You can do lots of things when your bank account is full. A lot less when your predecessor opens up 2 fronts in extremely expensive war efforts that eventually crash the world economy (2008). Remember Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac fail?.... lets give everyone the opportunity to buy real estate lol (Translation: I'm out of cash... artificially stimulate the economy to finance my war efforts and hope the system doesnt crash before the end of my term).

I think Obama did a pretty good job of averting a 1930's style depression and you're in a much better posture than Europe actually. GM is back on track with billions in profits, Osama is gone and you're not living under an overpass ;)
 
mike said:
It doesnt matter who you vote for the govt always gets in :D


I think the US is more by the corporations for the corporations these days .
Click to expand...

The UNITED STATES is a corporation. The Act of 1871 formed this corporation, shoved the old constitution aside and created a new one thus ending the Republic and replaced it with Democracy. (democracy is like 2 wolves and a sheep deciding what's for supper)
 
Jabbermocky said:
It's legal. I know quite a few couples and the odd one or two who are married. Churches still have it as optional -- but most get married through a JP. I guess gay marriages and churches are like Groucho and clubs...

Bottom line is, you shouldn't need a piece of paper to prove that you love one another -- for any couple; it's a nice traditional thing to do, but doesn't appear to mean much to most nowadays. (That said by someone who has been married over 30 years.)
Click to expand...
The piece of paper is simply a contract between a married couple and the corporation called UNITED STATES.
 
pixelsmith said:
The piece of paper is simply a contract between a married couple and the corporation called UNITED STATES.
Click to expand...

Didn't know that the US was part of marriage contracts in Canada -- and in my case England also ... interesting. But also glad to hear that Obama isn't wanting to stand in my bedroom now.
 
your corporate self can be arrested but your sovereign self can not. You have to establish your sovereignty now because your parents gave up your free man status when they signed you over to the state with your CERTIFICATE OF BIRTH.
 
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