October 18, 2015 — Dr. David Jacobs

[SheaOlmsford]

I completely agree. I was appalled when in both the interview and the After the Paracast show Chris adopted a mock stupid voice when putting words in Dr. Jacob's mouth. It was disrespectful, unprofessional and childish. I expected better from Chris.

I also expected better from Chris when he was dismayed at Dr. Jacob's contention that the tiny cameras Chris is so enamored of won't work because the abductees turn them off before they are abducted. Why would they do that, Chris wondered. If Chris had read Dr. Jacob's book before the interview, or given the matter a bit of thought, the answer would have been obvious to him--the aliens, with their mind reading and mind control capabilities, are aware of the cameras and are directing the abductees to turn them off. What if the abductees had no knowledge of the cameras? Would that work? Yes, possibly, but how exactly would that be arranged--Dr. Jacobs sneaking into the abductee's homes and installing hidden cameras that record people, without their knowledge, in their bedrooms? Great idea. What could go wrong with that?

That aliens can read and control our minds is a pretty bold claim, but there's really nothing new about that. That, along with much else in Dr. Jacob's book, has been a central theme of tales of abduction since Betty and Barney Hill. If what Dr. Jacob's was reporting were radically different from what has come before, it would be suspect, but instead it corroborates much of what has come before. I find this compelling.

And if aliens can control our minds, how do we know they're not controlling Dr. Jacob's mind? Or Gene and Chris's? Or mine? Or everybody's? Sure it's far-fetched, but what isn't in ufology?

This seems like a classic case of kill the messenger. In no way am I convinced that everything Dr. Jacobs reports is for real, and the tough questions that have been put to him are valid and should be asked, but he is a sincere, serious researcher with a lifetime of work dedicated to ufology, and for that he deserves more respect than he received from Chris O'Brien.

My question to you: How long have you been involved in Ufology? I see you have posted on the forum 3 times. Perhaps you have missed the long history and scandal surrounding David Jacobs?

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Hey! Long time no See. You were one of the more voracious David Jacobs defenders when this story broke years ago. Anyone strongly defending Emma Woods (like me) found themselves BANNED from the forums. Ah, such good times. Yes, I would not doubt that Emma Woods was/is mentally ill. So was I at one time with clinical depression and anxiety. I had extensive therapy and medication that has put all this far in my past. But I fear I would become mentally ill if I put my trust in David Jacobs, only to have false memories implanted in me (she says that although she now knows they are false, they still rule her subconscious mind). I listened to ALL the tapes by Emma Woods. (Gene, it really is worth your trouble). David Jacobs is manipulative, controlling, cruel, and outright "insane" on those tapes. Who in their right mind would implant a false memory that someone has multiple personality disorder simply to fool hybrids so they would leaev him alone? This man is one button short of a strait jacket.

Absolutely not true.

We banned some people for posting comments that could be construed as defamatory, extremely defamatory, which means they violated our clearly posted Terms of Service. We didn't ban everyone. Indeed, the sole reason she was blocked from the forum is that, despite attacking someone by name in a way that might be regarded as defamatory, she used a pseudonym. I asked her privately to give me her real name in confidence to protect our forums and this company from possible legal repercussions. She never responded, although she has given her name to others out of similar concerns. Instead, after her access was blocked, she created a different fake name and continued to post messages to support herself.

The other concern is that very few have bothered to read Jacobs' brief statement on his interactions with Woods. In that statement, he explains the reasoning behind the multiple personality disorder session, which he says is also explained in a portion of the recording that she has not posted. I do know that material exists, and only hope Jacobs will post it so it can be evaluated. He hurts his case not to lay it all out, and, as I said, my patience is wearing thin.

In his statement, Jacobs describes the history of his interactions with Woods, which paint a very troubling picture of her behavior. She says it's all a lie, but why trust someone who attempts to advance her cause by posting messages about herself as a fake third party?

If you are going to believe that all the recordings posted by Woods are complete, and that segments that may change your conclusions aren't there, at least look at what Jacobs says about her and her behavior. Again, he may be lying about it all, but there is no evidence that he is lying about anything he does, other than someone else's assertion. He made be totally wrong in his conclusions about alien hybrids. His methodology to interview and counsel subjects may be all wrong. Being wrong doesn't make you a liar.

I am very tolerant about what gets posted here. When it turns to personal/ad hominem attacks and emotional outbursts, that's over the line. We have to disagree agreeably.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

Sure, why have standards? Looking forward to future Paracast episodes featuring follow up visits from Michael Horn, Paola Harris, Sean David Morton, Phil Imbrogno and Stan Romanek, to name just a few.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Actually, the Paracast needs to be more open minded about the entire New Age Ascension wing of ufology. Just today I got a Friend Request on Facebook from Sheldon Nidel. For the last 20 years he has been predicting that Pleiadians are about to land, hand out space scooters, and bring us into the Galactic Federation. There are many such people out there that are totally ignored by the Paracast. This is wrong! What about the Ashcan, er, Ashtar Command? What about Bashar and other channeled alien entities? Why this lack of interest in the "spiritual" side of ufology? Why have there been no ascended masters on the Paracast? They are readily available at cheap rates! Never forget that the Pleiadians will only land when we all believe in them (like the fairies in Peter Pan), so clap your hands and say "I do believe in Pleiadians." Live to purify your life and make the planet pure enough for their evolved presence. If Jacobs gets to push his paranoid delusions, then we need to hear from the polar opposite team.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

I don't see how you can say that. Let's face it. The Clueless One and Jeff Ritzmann broke the entire Emma Woods case on their now-defunct podcast called PARATOPIA. You were all once good friends but had a major falling out. I remember when it wasn't very safe to mention either man's name on this forum! I hope that the source of this story does not preclude you taking it seriously. I know that there were critical articles to Jacobs' response in UFO MAGAZINE. I know that people read his response and there were formal rebuttals on-line. I read them. Many people did.

Both Vaeni and Ritzmann have become very emotionally involved in their support of Woods. I've tried to engage in reasoned conversations with both without success. If I refuse to accept their conclusions as correct, they stop the conversation.

When someone gets so emotionally swept up in a subject, you have to expect that dealing with the details logically takes second place.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

Good interview, but there are so many obvious questions that really needed to be asked, or if they were asked pushed further.

For example, Dr. Jacobs claims he now has many many people who speak of this new abduction scenario which includes a patient having to give daily "lessons" to their appointed hybrid. Jacobs said this training is as basic as grocery shopping, eating out, and interacting publicly with other humans. This raises the obvious question...what would happen if we put his patient "Bernard" under daily surveillance for an entire month. Surely, if these are "real" events, the investigator would be able to see several interactions of "Bernard" taking his hybrid "Eric" shopping. Surely there would be a clerk who would be able to testify to Bernard always coming into their "24 hour Walmart" with a peculiar guy who seemed to not know how to use a shopping cart. Additionally, there should be situations all over the world where every day humans witness strange interactions with abductees "training" their hybrid how do to all of these mundane things. I understand Jacobs sat for four hours outside one supposed hybrid's apartment, but to me that just isn't enough. If he has a list of 50 abductees, all with real "hybrid friends," those people need to be monitored. If what's happening is "real" then it would be impossible that someone, somewhere, would not have footage, or testimony about these odd training sessions inside grocery stores and restaurants across the world. I understand he is only a historian, but this is a no-brainer for me. It would be as simple as asking "So you say you took Eric to Walmart? How often do you do this? Can you describe to me the cashier?" Then follow up...

Also, it seems to me that since this new "abduction" experience now extends into the abductee's regular day, and are no longer just events that take place very late at night, were most people would go unnoticed if they were "taken away," we should then be seeing more wives, friends, and colleagues wondering "where Bernard went for 2 hours in the middle of a work day." Remember, Jacobs said that these people are "police officers, lawyers, university professors, etc" If these abductees are now being forced to train their hybrids all the time, yet only remember this under hypnosis, that shouldn't eliminate all the people around them who notice them continuously going missing each day for these training exercises!

If Bernard or any other wife asked "Sweetie, where did you go for two hours yesterday" and if he said "I don't remember," you would again have confirmatory evidence in all of these peripheral people wondering where their abductee friends and family went during the day. Moreover, you would have suspicious wives saying, "I followed into some strange apartment yesterday." This doesn't seem to be happening, therefore, I really question his conclusion.

Finally, I would be curious to know if Dr. Jacobs has any patients who might be homosexual. Are their gay and lesbian hybrids? Since he argues these abductions are predicated on reproduction, I would be curious to know if he has any homosexual patients. Imagine the aliens trying to figure THAT out during their training situations. If he does not have any gay or lesbian patients, then the clueless aliens, who need us to teach them everything about "human life" have a pretty damn good gay filter and must understand THAT aspect of humanity. So I would find it impossible that if these aliens are so clueless, and need us to explain simple life things to them, that they wouldn't statistically abduct a few transgender or gay test subjects. How would they know otherwise? What happens if they tried to abduct Catlin Jenner? Again, if these are real events perpetrated by clueless (in terms of human emotion, sexuality, and sociology) aliens. I think Jacob's and others should have all these types of people coming to him, including gay, lesbians and transgender. If he doesn't I would like to know he would explain that since these aliens don't seem to understand even the sheer basics of human existence.

Actually, Kevin Randle, in his book THE ABDUCTION ENIGMA, suggests that many male abductees are inexplicably gay. One household name in ufology would be Jesse Long. I also am gay and had such experiences through young adulthood. While these experiences may be "metaphysical" in some sense, I do remember being shown a 3D depiction of a genealogical map. I was told that I was an end nodal point. They said that when they want to terminate a particular branch of interaction, they actually create the conditions for the latest generation to be gay. That way, any genetic changes will not be passed on to another generation and out into the general public. While this all sounds very X Files and quite like B-Science Fiction, it has been a pivotal memory since my teenage years. I was very angry about it, blaming "them" for my gay nature (since I had a very hard time coming to terms with being gay).

 

[SheaOlmsford]

As you wrote earlier, you are "presuming" that the underwear was requested for genetic testing. There are certainly appropriate ways to request and obtain forensic evidence (and without recommending chastity belts) - one of the reasons I posted a link to the Ritzmann article in the "Ask Dr Jacobs" thread (perhaps belatedly for the purpose of the interview) was because it discusses Jacobs' failure to provide genetic and forensic support for his claims. Has he, in fact, ever obtained forensic evidence and if so, how did he handle it and was it tested?

If Emma Woods was not the person not to be discussed, perhaps Jacobs could have provided more information about that - not only about Woods but about what she has posted that deal directly with claims, the individuals, and the methods that Jacobs relies upon in his book.

As discussed above, if Jacobs wants to refute that type of analysis, he should provide access to the data - which would include both transcripts of interviews and forensic support - since "presumably" he has been interested in obtaining that.

I think Jacobs wanted the underwear to put over his head and then take deep breaths! LOL OK, I am trying to lighten up a bit on this topic.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

Both Vaeni and Ritzmann have become very emotionally involved in their support of Woods. I've tried to engage in reasoned conversations with both without success. If I refuse to accept their conclusions as correct, they stop the conversation.

When someone gets so emotionally swept up in a subject, you have to expect that dealing with the details logically takes second place.

You are right. I am another witness of their inexplicable RAGE when disagreed with. This does not destroy their EM argument, but it makes them poor advocates. They both seem to have this hair trigger ANGER that erupts, much to a person's surprise. I was BANNED from their forum also. LOL

Oddly, I had thanked them for their Emma Woods work. But somehow they were both feeling very paranoid at the time and somehow considered my post to be a criticism. I was flabbergasted. But there are other people on the internet who have blogged about their inexplicable banishment by the Dynamic Duo. The End on that tangent.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

I am not sure that DNA could be found on just about any item that was part of a human-alien hybrid encounter. I have reviewed DNA evidence in some of my client's criminal cases, and there may be some items more likely to have DNA than others. But you would have to know the circumstances that were alleged to evaluate the likelihood of finding biological material suitable for testing. A random request for any item out of the blue would not be appropriate.

But I agree that there are dark consequences to what Jacobs is doing that make it go beyond entertainment or science fiction. If it were just a man stating that insect alien hybrids are taking over the planet, that would be one thing.
But the methods he has used have had profound consequences - not only for some of his subjects, but from what is known about the use of hypnotic techniques in parallel situations that led people to believe that they or their family had eaten children as part of satanic rituals.

I can understand why he was an invited guest, but I don't think I would have invited him unless he agreed to provide full accounting, actual data, and corroboration. The burden is on him and until that is provided, all the anecdotes are meaningless.

I was shocked that he admitted that, like Budd Hopkins, he dismisses any information that does not support the going hypothesis. Granted, he said that he saves such information and sees if any confirmation from others occurs. But this is not how Science is done. You do not discount the strange results, since they may lead you to a better deeper hypothesis.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

Look, the bigger question is did he even need the underwear in the first place, never mind the absolute inanity of one species attempting to mate with another for the purposes of "hubrid creations" - talk about utter biological nonsense. If anyone was ever onboard a ship of an alien nature and then certainly any article of clothing will do. Anything that said alien touched will leave DNA - no underwear needed, no rape kit required. If this really is happening with so many people then a couple of shirts will do the trick - no intimacies needed.

It speaks to what's really going on with this guy and how he is exploiting people, and by the sounds of it, for his own pleasures. Even his discussion around scientifically testing materials, identifying who the hubrids are etc, was sketchy at best. There is no science taking place here at all.

On the other hand, if Jacobs is all that stands between us and the planetary takeover then god help us as we are doomed, for even he doesn't seem to be too darned motivated to establish real proof of much of anything at all. This is all just a fiction of the mind, with darker consequences. And it's those consequences of his methods and other intentions that need to be investigated much more critically.

Dr. Jacob's scenario is basically taken from the 1960's THE INVADERS TV show. I am sure you can find episodes on YOUTUBE. In that TV program, aliens "from another galazy" have infiltrated Earth society in human form at all levels of responsibility. Only one man, David Vincent, knows what the aliens are doing. He relentlessly pursues them and does his best to expose their evil plot. Unlike David Jacobs, he does not sit around and watch TV all day while the doom of humankind in coming.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Remember, Jacobs is a man in his 70s, so one understands why he might be slowing down a little.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

I'm sure this will open a hornet's nest, but Dr. Jacobs has put up a new site that is designed as the first stage of his Emma Woods rebuttal.

I expect nobody will be satisfied, but here's the link:

Emma Woods — The Real Story!

 

[Mr. Fibuli]

Based on the recommendations in another blog, I just watched an x-files episode from season three: Jose Chungs 'From Outer Space'. I have to say that it sums up everything about the state of ufology better than anything I have ever seen. The MIB, Hyneck, Vallee, abductions, confabulation under hypnosis, close encounters, military. Disinformation. Conspiracy. More disinformation. Or perhaps, as the episode states, it comes down to the difference between experiencers and abductees. With great foresight, a little bit of Jacobs, with Bigfoot thrown into the works. Or perhaps it just seems like foresight because the conclusions of the episode mirror what we know today. We are exactly in the place that the episode leaves us.

Since that episode says everything about the abduction scenario better than what I could ever say, it is time to leave this thread. At least until there is new information. Jacobs has taken too much time for what he has offered, and perhaps that time is better spent waiting for the next smoking gun from Roswell.

I like all of the elements of this episode, strangely it's among my least favorite episodes of the show.

 

[Mr. Fibuli]

BRAVO! Since common sense defense of Emma Woods on this forum has always been shockingly low (starting at the top), I applaud you enthusiastically. This was a huge issue for me, which lead to my previous banishment from the forum. Gene graciously let me return (with my $50 one year membership). But Gene just doesn't get how important this issue is to a lot of intelligent people. Personally, I will NOT be renewing my membership for 2016.

You all are looking for a straw man to burn, and using your Paracast+ renewal as some kind of hostage..weird.
Have any of you thought that Gene has put a lot into the show for free,and that he sorta is bending over to make things cool?
So, he's a supporter of everything Jacobs has done? Gene didn't sweep anything under, there has been plenty of mention of Woods. Anyone interested can research and decide for themselves.
I just wish people would get along while they disagree.

 

[Mr. Fibuli]

Actually, the Paracast needs to be more open minded about the entire New Age Ascension wing of ufology. Just today I got a Friend Request on Facebook from Sheldon Nidel. For the last 20 years he has been predicting that Pleiadians are about to land, hand out space scooters, and bring us into the Galactic Federation. There are many such people out there that are totally ignored by the Paracast. This is wrong! What about the Ashcan, er, Ashtar Command? What about Bashar and other channeled alien entities? Why this lack of interest in the "spiritual" side of ufology? Why have there been no ascended masters on the Paracast? They are readily available at cheap rates! Never forget that the Pleiadians will only land when we all believe in them (like the fairies in Peter Pan), so clap your hands and say "I do believe in Pleiadians." Live to purify your life and make the planet pure enough for their evolved presence. If Jacobs gets to push his paranoid delusions, then we need to hear from the polar opposite team.

I actually wouldn't mind hearing those far out guests if they were suitably questioned. Maybe for a half hour segment though.

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

I'm sure this will open a hornet's nest, but Dr. Jacobs has put up a new site that is designed as the first stage of his Emma Woods rebuttal.

I expect nobody will be satisfied, but here's the link:

Emma Woods — The Real Story!

Ok, that's wierd, he's using the name Heidi for E.Woods. For the record, that's not me!

 

[Mohawk]

My question to you: How long have you been involved in Ufology? I see you have posted on the forum 3 times. Perhaps you have missed the long history and scandal surrounding David Jacobs?

Not sure what the number of my posts has to do with anything, but to answer your question, since 1967, before you were born, I suspect, when I read Flying Saucers, Serious Business by Frank Edwards. And yes, I know all about the scandal to which you refer.

 

[Smoking Man]

The Clueless One and Jeff Ritzmann broke the entire Emma Woods case on their now-defunct podcast called PARATOPIA.

I don't post here often, frankly, as I find the forum tends to have an overly censored atmosphere. But I will chime in with my 2 cents.

I have listened to all the evidence they have presented, and they make a very very compelling case, even more so when you listen to the audio recordings. I speak to Jeremy from time time, and I was at one point friendly with Jeff. However, I had a back and forth with Jeff, where, as Gene has noted, when I didn't agree with him about an unrelated UFO personality and then proved his assertions about said personality were false with the very evidence he showed me, he simply shut down communication and stopped speaking to me. I was rather disappointed with this behavior as, I had, and still do have respect for his general approach and interest in getting to the truth of the subject. However, I have found people who claim they are the voices of reason, or the truth tellers, who say the hard truths regardless of the consequences and if anyone likes them or not, tend not to react well when the same is done to them. All that being said, I think both Jeremy and Jeff are on point in this matter, and the audio sessions really make it uncomfortably apparent. You can hear those audio sessions on old paranormal waypoint shows.

On an unrelated note, my apologies, if you feel this derails the other topic. Seeing Kevin Randle mentioned, I find him immensely dubious at best, and given that he was in the intelligence field professionally, I would have a hard time taking much of anything he says seriously. He was a professional liar, for a living. For example, this man has gone on a tirade against Clifford Stone, a man who I understand is very controversial in his own right (and for good reason!), but after months/years of my own personal conversation with Clifford, more than I think anyone else has done, shamefully, and others around him who have no interest, or connection to Ufology, I think there is some kernel or more of truth in Clifford's tale. If anything, he has one of the largest supply of UFO documents in private hands.

I have come to learn that even the most conservative and respected in this field went to him *first* to get the inside scoop on the various UFO tales and documents they were interested in, and quietly supported him, despite not being able to publicly associate with him due to his controversial claims and personal story. I find this rather detestable as people have built careers off this man's work. Clifford has to easily be one of the kindest and most sincere people I have ever come across in any walk of life. He gives it all away for free, no careerism, no dog and pony show, etc. I have many many hours of recorded conversation with him, including things he has never shared publicly. Clifford has personal correspondence from kevin randle being very upset with what clifford was doing (finding and presenting compelling gov. documents on this subject) and threatening him no less, and it wasn't because clifford was a loony toon making stuff up.

What really sealed the deal for me though, was in regards to what is arguably some of the most important documents in ufology, including what leslie kean used for her book, and yes, she went to Clifford for this. I have been biting my tongue on this matter for some time. Clifford was the man who found the Project Moon Dust and Operation Blue Fly documents. Even the very man himself who has made it his personal goal to attack Clifford, said so, which is curious.

With FOIA requests, you often have to know what the name of these items/programs/documents are beforehand in order to have any chance of successfully obtaining them. It's not like you call them up, and like a google search, you just find "secret UFO docs". It may very well be Clifford knew to ask about these obscure documents which essentially suggest UFO recovery, because, well, he may have been involved? Or had some other knowledge? I don't know. Clifford makes the claim he was involved, I can't prove he was. But his ability to sniff out these documents, suggests he shouldn't be outright dismissed.

Project Moondust - Kevin Randle


Project Moon Dust
Chapter 8
The History of Project Moon Dust
by Kevin D. Randle, Captain, U.S.A.F.R



"When United States Senator Jeff Bingaman asked the Air Force about a classified project called Moon Dust, Lieutenant Colonel John E. Madison of the Congressional Inquiry Division, Office of Legislative Liaison, wrote, “There is no agency, nor has there ever been, at Fort Belvoir, Virginia, which would deal with UFO’s or have any information about the incident in Roswell. In addition, there is no Project Moon Dust or Operation Blue Fly. Those missions have never existed.”

What the documentation, now available thanks in part to the Freedom of Information Act, and the pioneering work of Clifford Stone, tells us is that Madison’s letter to a United States Senator is, at best, inaccurate. The question can be asked was he merely uninformed, or was he purposefully lying to a Senator? Stone, a researcher in Roswell, New Mexico, challenged Madison’s response with a series of documents, which had been obtained through Freedom of Information Act requests. He pointed out that documents originally classified as secret and since downgraded, mentioned the code name Moon Dust, and specifically a project for UFO-related materials. It also established as fact the location of the parent unit being at Fort Belvoir, Virginia. "

I wince every time I hear this man on the program, and the amount of reverence he is given, even more so when he goes on about work that he didn't even do himself, or is misrepresenting and or misappropriating.

I suggest you have Clifford on.

 

[Psychedelic_Alchemist]

I want a full-body, Velostat-lined, knitted Clanger suit. That'll keep David Icke out of my bedroom at night, I guarantee it!

Funniest damn post on the whole thread! Lol!

Viva Chavez para siempre!!!

 

[Life_Model_Decoy]

I have followed abduction research for many years and what makes me skeptical of recovered memories with hypnosis and Dr David Jacobs research is how malleable memory is. Humans are terrible at remembering things and a comment made to witness after the fact is enough to get them to remember a detail wrong. Our emotions at the time of remembering or who we are with can shade a memory as well. Memory is unreliable.
I think it is tremendously easy to lesd a hypnosis subject without meaning to. As a behavioral psychologist in grad school I learned about the wonder animals like Clever Hams that sprung up around the turn of the last century
These animals could read the smallest micro expression from their owners which would allow they to upon recognizing said expression behave in a certain way which would give the appearance of being about to do math problems or understand English. Teams from universities would come out and be fooled because the cue from the animal's handle would be so slight.
I bring this up because I think someone in the relaxed state of hypnosis could easily act in the same way and pick up a hypnotists micro expressions/body language/unconscious verbal cues and create a narrative that they think the hypnotist wants to hear. All unintentional and unconscious by both parties. I think that could be why you see different abduction researchers having very homogeneous results.

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

It's true! The Hubrid/Hybrids are among us:

Posthuman Blues: Masha Telna: alien-human hybrid?