October 18, 2015 — Dr. David Jacobs

[Gene Steinberg]

That's an important point, that the sort of abductions researchers investigate seems to mirror their theories. Self-fulfilling prophecy?

 

[Mohawk]

Despite what I've said before, I do see some weaknesses in this hubrid business too. One is that the alien's methods for making people forget their experiences are so pathetically ineffective. All the abductees have to do is be told to relax, and it all comes spilling out.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Or maybe what they are spilling out is just spin, hiding the real experience, whatever it is?

 

[Mulvaney]

While I had intended not to post on this thread any more, I was listening to a discussion this morning on the relationship between our objective and subjective selves. It seemed to have some analogy to the discussion here

We can lose a limb that objectively has no longer has any senses, but still feel pain because our brain continues to map out certain responses. Or it can work in reverse.

The dichotomy between subjective and objective selves is perhaps that is why people like Emma Woods - but certainly not limited to her - report having to live with false memories that they objectively know are not true. And why certain experiences that have been implanted under hypnosis can seem so real.

It has been shown that people with no prior experience can replicate abduction scenarios under hypnosis. But although we can experience abductions, satanic rituals, and other events as real does not necessarily indicate an objective reality. It means that our brains are mapping out certain perceptions that are real to our subjective selves.

I find it to be interesting as a psychological or neurological phenomenon, but not as a means to draw objective data about what aliens, satanists or other dark forces are doing.

 

[Life_Model_Decoy]

Does any one who has abduction experiences have a fitbit? That would give you information right there. If once a month the Fitbit stops sending data to your phone for 2 hours because it's out of range that data right there from a device that many people already own.

 

[Azz7092]

Does any one who has abduction experiences have a fitbit? That would give you information right there. If once a month the Fitbit stops sending data to your phone for 2 hours because it's out of range that data right there from a device that many people already own.[/QUOTE



but that data could just be misread as inactive ,would it not ? thats not total conclusive i think the only way is A "BIG BROTHER" type house which monitors occupants 24/7 you could call it "ABDUCTION HOUSE " imagine the carnage on that.

 

[Life_Model_Decoy]

Definitelywouldnt be conclusive but could point to some anomalous things. It would be interesting to see a house wired with multiple cameras, motion sensors and radation detectors if that would have an effect on the phenomenon. Again even if the houses power was disrupted evertime there was an abduction event that would point to evidence that a real wold physical occurrence had occurred.

 

[Azz7092]

Definitelywouldnt be conclusive but could point to some anomalous things. It would be interesting to see a house wired with multiple cameras, motion sensors and radation detectors if that would have an effect on the phenomenon. Again even if the houses power was disrupted evertime there was an abduction event that would point to evidence that a real wold physical occurrence had occurred.

Definitely agree with that mate and surveillance vans outside as well capture angles to Possible Entry Points and exit points NIDS did that at the Gorman ranch with some reported success

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

That's what I pointed out in the episode and reiterated this on ATP. If the system crashes more than once—that's data!
You can't diss this hard data gathering approach until it has been attempted. "Persistence alone is omnipotent," (as a notorious "magus" of the 19th & 20th Centuries once intoned)...

 

[withoutlimits09]

I want Jacobs to address my concern and that is the abduction phenomena has largely been predicated on nighttime abductions. This was perfect because no one would be "missing" a person during the hours they slept. However, his new theory has abductees disappearing in the middle of the day in order to train their hybrids on various daily activities. Jacob's claims the abductee won't remember spending two hours at a 24 hour Walmart teaching their assigned hybrid how to shop and what peanut butter is, but that does nothing to address all the peripheral people who would demand to know where their friend or loved one went inexplicably in the middle of the day. If, as Jacob says, these people come from "all walks of life" and consist of police officers, lawyers, university professors, and day laborers, then there should be countless examples of the lawyer who missed court because he was in a secret trance shopping at Walmart with his hybrid. There should be instances of professors not making it to class because they were having to teach their hybrid what jello was at the local diner rather than attend their class. Jacob's new theory makes it unavoidable the other people in the lives of these abductees would not notice all of these odd disappearances.

This is a huge hole in his theory and one that is easily tested. You can go to that police officer abductee and look at his attendance and instances of missed calls. You will find these random wives and husbands that are seen shopping locally with odd hybrids who don't know how to use a shopping cart. Locals will wonder "Who is that strange man Bernard is shopping with while on duty as a police officer." It isn't as though the entire rest of the community goes asleep for hours while only the abductee and the hybrid shop, so there would have to be interactions and witnesses. Again, Jacob's has removed this situation out of the bedroom at 2am and into Walmarts during all hours of the day. This can't go unnoticed.

 

[Psychedelic_Alchemist]

I remember reading Jacob's Secret Life back in the mid-90's and becoming absolutely fascinated with the whole abduction experience, but this latest stuff about hubrids needing to be trained how to grocery shop etc just comes across as a load of horseshit. Something surely is happening to these people, they can't all be lying, but that doesn't necessarily mean little green men from outer space, or that hybrids are about to take over the planet. I concur with others that have stated the problems with using hypnosis as a form of accurate memory recall of forgotten/past events. Ultimately, Jacobs is a historian, and his heart may be in the right place (just as long as he's not a hubrid himself!) but take anything he says with a grain of salt and do your own due diligence. Interesting show nevertheless.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

I don't post here often, frankly, as I find the forum tends to have an overly censored atmosphere. But I will chime in with my 2 cents.

I have listened to all the evidence they have presented, and they make a very very compelling case, even more so when you listen to the audio recordings. I speak to Jeremy from time time, and I was at one point friendly with Jeff. However, I had a back and forth with Jeff, where, as Gene has noted, when I didn't agree with him about an unrelated UFO personality and then proved his assertions about said personality were false with the very evidence he showed me, he simply shut down communication and stopped speaking to me. I was rather disappointed with this behavior as, I had, and still do have respect for his general approach and interest in getting to the truth of the subject. However, I have found people who claim they are the voices of reason, or the truth tellers, who say the hard truths regardless of the consequences and if anyone likes them or not, tend not to react well when the same is done to them. All that being said, I think both Jeremy and Jeff are on point in this matter, and the audio sessions really make it uncomfortably apparent. You can hear those audio sessions on old paranormal waypoint shows.

On an unrelated note, my apologies, if you feel this derails the other topic. Seeing Kevin Randle mentioned, I find him immensely dubious at best, and given that he was in the intelligence field professionally, I would have a hard time taking much of anything he says seriously. He was a professional liar, for a living. For example, this man has gone on a tirade against Clifford Stone, a man who I understand is very controversial in his own right (and for good reason!), but after months/years of my own personal conversation with Clifford, more than I think anyone else has done, shamefully, and others around him who have no interest, or connection to Ufology, I think there is some kernel or more of truth in Clifford's tale. If anything, he has one of the largest supply of UFO documents in private hands.

I have come to learn that even the most conservative and respected in this field went to him *first* to get the inside scoop on the various UFO tales and documents they were interested in, and quietly supported him, despite not being able to publicly associate with him due to his controversial claims and personal story. I find this rather detestable as people have built careers off this man's work. Clifford has to easily be one of the kindest and most sincere people I have ever come across in any walk of life. He gives it all away for free, no careerism, no dog and pony show, etc. I have many many hours of recorded conversation with him, including things he has never shared publicly. Clifford has personal correspondence from kevin randle being very upset with what clifford was doing (finding and presenting compelling gov. documents on this subject) and threatening him no less, and it wasn't because clifford was a loony toon making stuff up.

What really sealed the deal for me though, was in regards to what is arguably some of the most important documents in ufology, including what leslie kean used for her book, and yes, she went to Clifford for this. I have been biting my tongue on this matter for some time. Clifford was the man who found the Project Moon Dust and Operation Blue Fly documents. Even the very man himself who has made it his personal goal to attack Clifford, said so, which is curious.

With FOIA requests, you often have to know what the name of these items/programs/documents are beforehand in order to have any chance of successfully obtaining them. It's not like you call them up, and like a google search, you just find "secret UFO docs". It may very well be Clifford knew to ask about these obscure documents which essentially suggest UFO recovery, because, well, he may have been involved? Or had some other knowledge? I don't know. Clifford makes the claim he was involved, I can't prove he was. But his ability to sniff out these documents, suggests he shouldn't be outright dismissed.

Project Moondust - Kevin Randle


Project Moon Dust
Chapter 8
The History of Project Moon Dust
by Kevin D. Randle, Captain, U.S.A.F.R



"When United States Senator Jeff Bingaman asked the Air Force about a classified project called Moon Dust, Lieutenant Colonel John E. Madison of the Congressional Inquiry Division, Office of Legislative Liaison, wrote, “There is no agency, nor has there ever been, at Fort Belvoir, Virginia, which would deal with UFO’s or have any information about the incident in Roswell. In addition, there is no Project Moon Dust or Operation Blue Fly. Those missions have never existed.”

What the documentation, now available thanks in part to the Freedom of Information Act, and the pioneering work of Clifford Stone, tells us is that Madison’s letter to a United States Senator is, at best, inaccurate. The question can be asked was he merely uninformed, or was he purposefully lying to a Senator? Stone, a researcher in Roswell, New Mexico, challenged Madison’s response with a series of documents, which had been obtained through Freedom of Information Act requests. He pointed out that documents originally classified as secret and since downgraded, mentioned the code name Moon Dust, and specifically a project for UFO-related materials. It also established as fact the location of the parent unit being at Fort Belvoir, Virginia. "

I wince every time I hear this man on the program, and the amount of reverence he is given, even more so when he goes on about work that he didn't even do himself, or is misrepresenting and or misappropriating.

I suggest you have Clifford on.

Thank you for an amazing post.

I find Jeremy and Jeff's adoration of Whitley Strieber quite illogical. But since the Big Jer now has a show of his own via Whitley Strieber's DREAMLAND platform, I guess it worked out well for him (although he must have inwardly been gagging when Whitley invited Jamie M. onto Dreamland with Linda M. Howe to DEFEND the Roswell slides and declare confidently that CIA or FBI agents had placed the sign in front of the "alien" to confuse investigators. To me, Whitley totally jumped the alien shark with that episode).

I do not know what to make of Clifford Stone. Perhaps others can give their views. I think he also jumped my personal alien shark when he proclaimed in one interview that the little Grey aliens live in nuclear families like humans. Ah, no. I do not think so, Cliff. I cringed, afraid that Cliff would say that they also go to church on Sunday (since Cliff presents himself as a very devout Christian).

 

[Life_Model_Decoy]

I want Jacobs to address my concern and that is the abduction phenomena has largely been predicated on nighttime abductions. This was perfect because no one would be "missing" a person during the hours they slept. However, his new theory has abductees disappearing in the middle of the day in order to train their hybrids on various daily activities. Jacob's claims the abductee won't remember spending two hours at a 24 hour Walmart teaching their assigned hybrid how to shop and what peanut butter is, but that does nothing to address all the peripheral people who would demand to know where their friend or loved one went inexplicably in the middle of the day. If, as Jacob says, these people come from "all walks of life" and consist of police officers, lawyers, university professors, and day laborers, then there should be countless examples of the lawyer who missed court because he was in a secret trance shopping at Walmart with his hybrid. There should be instances of professors not making it to class because they were having to teach their hybrid what jello was at the local diner rather than attend their class. Jacob's new theory makes it unavoidable the other people in the lives of these abductees would not notice all of these odd disappearances.

This is a huge hole in his theory and one that is easily tested. You can go to that police officer abductee and look at his attendance and instances of missed calls. You will find these random wives and husbands that are seen shopping locally with odd hybrids who don't know how to use a shopping cart. Locals will wonder "Who is that strange man Bernard is shopping with while on duty as a police officer." It isn't as though the entire rest of the community goes asleep for hours while only the abductee and the hybrid shop, so there would have to be interactions and witnesses. Again, Jacob's has removed this situation out of the bedroom at 2am and into Walmarts during all hours of the day. This can't go unnoticed.

Definitely with GPS cellphones today you can retrace your steps the whole day, people can be in constant contact there and are cameras everywhere. Somebody missing from their bed for 90 minutes is completely different than 2 hours midday at Walmart.
As far as I know Dr. Jacobs is the only researcher who had found this hybrid training which if true since it hasn't been peer validated makes it very suspect. I again believe that he could be unconsciously leading his subjects through micro cues and expressions.
The aliens aliens techniques are very questionable as well why continue to take the risks year after year of grabbing unborn babies before they are damaged or discovered? Wouldn't it have been easier during their first round of abductions to take DNA samples clone the people and breed them while making whatever genetic tweaks they need along the way? No risk of discovery no risk of losing a subject due to accident, 100% control of all variables. Whatever is going on with abductions, the phenomenon cannot be taken at face value.

 

[paraschtick]

As much as I have trouble with Dr. Jacobs unspoken conclusions, 'Emma Woods' seems to be mentally..well unstable. My opinion is only formed from the 'public domain' media, so..

And Jacobs doesn't? He is saying that there are aliens here trying to take over the Earth without giving ANY EVIDENCE FOR IT WHATSOEVER. To claim that Emma is mentally unstable is completely absurd. Have you actually read what she has written or indeed the audio with Jacobs. She is entirely reasonable with him on many levels, and even tries to accommodate him when they are ending their research together. Her website is clear, concise, and well written. If she had any mental issues, this would show. It doesn't.

To say that someone is mentally unstable with this kind of evidence is absolute idiocy.

Oh, and seeing Jacobs new website on the Woods case just shows him to be the small, vindictive creep he is. And yes you can quote me on that.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

All the new site does is present full transcripts and recordings of three sessions along with some brief explanatory material. How is that "vindictive"?

As to whether or not Emma Woods is unstable, he describes a pattern of behavior on his other site that would appear to be troubling if true. If you're saying he's lying, that's another story. But where's your evidence that he is lying? Remember that people who may have emotional problems can certainly seem reasonable too from time to time.

I'm not coming out either way on this matter. But your message appears to show a disconnect between what the new site shows, and your initial conclusion about it.

 

[paraschtick]

I read what Jacobs has to say and I am even less convinced by his methods.

Jacobs was dealing with a very vulnerable person. It seems clear that he was using regressive hypnotic techniques - from both the Woods material, the Brian Reed material that provided some corroboration, and what Jacobs has described. Even if the audio tapes Woods has posted is only part of the story, he was leading her with suggestions of abduction and sexual abuse; under hypnosis he stated that she had multiple personality disorder (an interesting conclusion for a historian to make), not to mention the chastity belt and underwear. His own words make that clear. None of that is appropriate regardless of the context.

Jacobs states he was illegally recorded. Jurisdictions vary. As I understand New Zealand law, it may not be illegal under the circumstances here. Federal law and 38 states would permit it. It would take a lot more research and I have more pressing matters to deal with in regards to my clients under California law, but it is certainly not as clear as Jacobs maintains.

Woods is important - certainly her material cannot be separated from the body of Jacobs' work. But as Clueless Wonder points out, it is the byproduct of his methods and not the nucleus. Using hypnotic regression under such circumstances is fraught with danger.

In what one expert described as the worst malpractice case he had seen, a patient named Roma Hart claimed her therapist instilled the belief that her family was involved in a Satanic crime-ring, and that Hart had been forcibly impregnated by extraterrestrials and gave birth to a hybrid infant. She was put on the verge of suicide. Her lawsuit was settled. But I am not sure if there is any distinction between the methods that were used there and what Jacobs uses to collect data.

We have seen these methods play out in a number of contexts, without corroboration and without research to support it. We have seen it give rise to mass hysteria. The anecdotes Jacobs collects do nothing for ufology. And if I were Woods, I would have reason to be angry.

A paraphrased quote from Jacobs, "I like desperate". He goes for vulnerable people with glee. It's his modus operandi. Go for the most vulnerable (mostly women), hypnotise them, and then use their stories (which have been created by Jacobs in his leading) for his pornographic mythology. He is extraordinarily calculating, callous, spiteful, and likes to use people without any scruples whatsoever. He has no conscience, and no shame.

However, I can put on the record that Emma is not a mentally unstable person as some people may think. I know this because I have actually met her, and know her in real life. She is exactly as she comes across on her website: very bright, concise, and not schizophrenic or mentally ill. She is someone who has been through a hell of a lot, only to be a victim of a pernicious predator whose agenda remains unknown.

His research has been unethical in the extreme, and has probably hurt a unknown number of people. Emma still doesn't know everything about her time doing research with Jacobs because he put memory blocks on her. Yes, that's right. She can only go through the hypnosis audio, now and again, because it is extremely traumatic for her, and sometimes she will find something that she will not remember because Jacobs made her forget it. This was the case with the MPD stuff. She knew nothing about it until she listened to one of the hypnosis audio. The guy is ... amazing.

On top of this, during his research with her, he would put her in a hypnotic trance ... but at the end of the session, would leave her in it. That means she would go around for some time in a sort of hypnotic daze until she would finally snap out of it herself. Any reasonable human being would see this as extraordinarily unethical, and Emma may not be the only one that he has done this kind of thing to.

In my opinion, he should have been stopped years ago, and shouldn't be given any air time at all. Those who do just prolong his nonsense, and do a disservice to those in the ufo and abduction research communities who are trying to do real research in an ethical fashion.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

Everyone shouldn't be so shocked that no surveilience cameras (or any other cameras) captures ANY abudctions in progress. Jacob's patients or otherwise. If they have the ability to abduct Linda Cortile MULTIPLE TIMES in a city with 8.4 million people (NYC) and not have ONE camera capture ANYTHING, then we shouldn't be shocked that they can abduct someone living in a home by themselves or with a spouse in suburbia

 

[kruggutter]

 

[Mulvaney]

As to whether or not Emma Woods is unstable, he describes a pattern of behavior on his other site that would appear to be troubling if true. If you're saying he's lying, that's another story. But where's your evidence that he is lying? Remember that people who may have emotional problems can certainly seem reasonable too from time to time.

On the other hand, I have no particular reason to give Jacobs much credibility. He has claimed, for instance, that he is only collecting histories and not conducting research. He has described his methods as relaxation techniques rather than hypnosis. And he has contradicted these statements.

Undoubtedly, Emma has posted some very well-written material. And while I agree that this does not foreclose emotional problems, Emma's "troubling" "pattern of behavior" is really not the issue. If she was that troubled, it was all the more reason why implanting suggestions of a psychological diagnosis, memories of abduction experiences, and chastity belts are problematic.

But my problems with Jacobs have less to do with Emma and more to do with the use regressive techniques that have been associated with any number of fallacies. As I wrote earlier, why should I trust his methods as applied to aliens any more then I trust them as applied to mass satanic ritual abuse. There has been enough research and documentation to make me believe that these techniques are dangerous. Jacobs credibility does not hinge on rebutting Emma by showing that she was troubled, but by the methods he uses and his own statements.

 

[SheaOlmsford]

All the new site does is present full transcripts and recordings of three sessions along with some brief explanatory material. How is that "vindictive"?

As to whether or not Emma Woods is unstable, he describes a pattern of behavior on his other site that would appear to be troubling if true. If you're saying he's lying, that's another story. But where's your evidence that he is lying? Remember that people who may have emotional problems can certainly seem reasonable too from time to time.

I'm not coming out either way on this matter. But your message appears to show a disconnect between what the new site shows, and your initial conclusion about it.

Yes you are. You consistently are defending David Jacobs. Back when the Emma Woods material surfaced, you refused to even go to the web site and listen to the audio tapes. Your support of Jacobs is really historical and quite obvious to anyone who has been paying attention.